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Globe: "Do women ever respond differently than men to prescription drugs?..."


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Globe and Mail (Canada):

 

Do women ever respond differently than men to prescription drugs?

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health-advisor/do-women-ever-respond-differently-than-men-to-prescription-drugs/article32619772/

 

Excerpt:

 

In recent years, however, there has been a growing awareness that women may not always respond in a similar fashion as men to certain drugs, Tannenbaum says. A key turning point occurred in January, 2013, when the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued new dosage recommendations for the commonly used sleeping medication zolpidem, sold under the brand names of Ambien and Sublinox. (Health Canada took similar action a year later.)

 

The regulators said the dose prescribed to women should be cut in half after studies revealed women metabolize, or break down, the drug more slowly than men.

 

Women could wake up with high levels of the drug still in their bloodstream, which might impair their ability to drive or do other tasks requiring an alert mind.

 

This was the first time regulators recommended sex-based dosages for an oral medication.

 

Since then, the FDA and Health Canada have called on researchers to include more women in clinical trials.

 

There are certainly good biological reasons to think women and men may handle some medications differently, says Dr. David Juurlink, a drug-safety expert and head of Clinical Pharmacology and Toxicology at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre in Toronto.

 

He notes that drugs have to be absorbed, metabolized and eventually eliminated from the body – processes that involve several different organs. There can be subtle differences in how these organs function depending on a person's sex.

 

For instance, the activity levels of enzymes that metabolize drugs in the liver can sometimes differ in men and women, Juurlink says. Furthermore, women tend to have a higher percentage of body fat than men – and certain drugs can accumulate in fat tissue. That means some drugs are more likely to build up in the bodies of women than men.

 

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I wonder, also, if they use men for trials because they KNOW that men respond better, and therefore the drug will have better results. But they have to start using lots of women because we take the majority of pills. It seems unfair to just use men for that reason.
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I heard a radio programme about this recently.

 

Also Drs are trained to spot things like heart attacks based on the symptoms men get. Women often have completely different symptoms.

 

There is also a dearth of evidence on how drugs effect or are effected by the menstrual  cycle.

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Yes, I was just reading another study about differences between men and women. It was looking at the differences between the vestibular systems, and it, too, referred to the fact that most studies are done on male rats or mice, which might, then, affect outcomes.

 

 

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I would guess women do react differently, but I don't know why. MY moment of recognition was almost 7 years ago when I stumbled upon a study called "Women on Benzos", written by a Canadian. His study detailed every single thing that happened to me while on benzos. Frequent falls, broken bones, social and job problems, legal troubles and more. Reading that meant so much to me, because I had assumed that I was doing something very wrong, and had not considered the tie with my 30 year addiction to benzos. Reading that was my very first step towards recovering from benzos and ADs. I am so glad I stuck it out.

east

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Think Thalidomide.  >:(

 

 

I wonder, also, if they use men for trials because they KNOW that men respond better, and therefore the drug will have better results. But they have to start using lots of women because we take the majority of pills. It seems unfair to just use men for that reason.

 

Yes, cherry picking is a big part of it.  I once listened to an interesting podcast on this very subject, the researcher was pushing for, not only more females (human and rats/animals), but also for different species of rats/animals.  Apparently, there can be vastly different outcomes just between the species.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Among many reasons for the different responses, primary is estrogen, and estrogen receptors.  Thyroid problems occur statically more often in females than males, older versus younger due to effects of estrogen. When thyroid is low, it interferes with drug clearance from the liver, and dramatically alters the gut, from peristalsis to gut bacteria.  Since the gut is the second brain, it follows there would be issues in mental clarity, and mood.

 

Thyroid hormone is blocked by estrogen at the thyroid receptors, effectively lowering the dose. Normal thyroid hormone levels act similarly to an SSRI on neuro receptors promoting a more stable mental state.  When there is unopposed estrogen, it upsets the balance of cortisol, and aldosterone.  It can also cause a rise in the adrenalin response.  All of these affect the BP, raise insulin resistance, impair digestion, and alter brain chemicals.  Thyroid hormone determines body temp (thermostat), and the reaction rate of all processes in the body.

 

The body raises cholesterol as we age as a response to these changes. Low thyroid raises cholesterol. Remember all hormones are essentially synthesized from the raw material of cholesterol. The brain, spinal cord, and neurological sheath (insulting covering on a nerve) is made of fat. How many are put on cholesterol lowering drugs as we age?

 

Women go through three major hormonal events that are age related: onset of menses (teen), pregnancy (teens to forty), then menopause (forty and up). Just taking meds at different times in the menstral cycle can have different effects. While it's true testosterone, rises with puberty then begins to decline, men do not experience these major changes.

 

Males in general have higher muscle mass per kg.  Women as they age dramatically lose muscle mass. The percentage body fat versus muscle has to do with drug storage versus clearance from the body.  A 100lb 70yo female should never receive the drug dose for a 45yo male.

 

There is so much wrong with the science, it's ridiculous. The FDA standards at one time only required 20 participant sample for a drug trial to be valid.  They do not restrict drug recommendations by the sex or age for adults, but do make some distinctions between adults and pediatrics, probably due to the blatant developmental and weight differences.

 

If you want to be "valid," then use cohort groups containing your target demographics in drug trials. Do not expand untested treatment protocols. (Anti-depressants, etc. in youth.)  This is especially true since the buzz words thrown about are "evidence based medicine."

 

 

 

 

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Disclaimer: I think everyone deserves good medical care regardless of sexual preferences, race, religion, etc. I've done it- I took care of AIDS patients in the 80s when no one knew what it was.

 

The current mindset endangers people's medical care by playing along with a mental perception versus a physical reality. Just as ethnicity guides medical tests, and helps sort probable diagnoses, so does XX or XY chromosomes.  If I have a red haired Irish girl with a blood issue, I do not test her for Mediterranean Thalesemmia or sickle cell. Cardiac problems in males have left arm pain, sweating, nausea classically.  Females can have vague symptoms like fatigue and nausea, and be overlooked as in life threatening danger. I don't know how medical personnel can possibly treat effectively while simultaneously being constrained legally by insane political concepts.

 

If someone presents in the ER claiming to be Moses wearing a robe, and sandals, they are sent for a psych eval.  If an obvious male comes in with artificial breasts, and unaltered male genitalia, the staff must agree with his perception. It affects the suspected diagnoses, drug doses, and surgical treatment. If this person was born male, despite any surgeries, they have a prostate.  They could have cancer there. How would you know?  It doesn't end well, as this example shows:

 

Reported in a medical journal- The 32-year-old patient told the nurse he was transgender when he arrived at the emergency room and his electronic medical record listed him as male. He hadn't had a period in several years and had been taking testosterone, a hormone that has masculinizing effects and can decrease ovulation and menstruation. But he quit taking the hormone and blood pressure medication after he lost insurance.

 

A home pregnancy test was positive and he said he had "peed himself" — a possible sign of ruptured membranes and labor. A nurse ordered a pregnancy test but considered him stable and his problems non-urgent.

 

Since there was no imminent danger, the patient was awaiting results. The pregnancy test can back positive, and an US was done- the patient was in active labor.  The umbilical cord had dropped into the canal, and after an emergency c-section, the baby was dead. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2019/05/16/pregnant-transgender-man-births-stillborn-baby-hospital-missed-labor-signs/3692201002/

 

Who has accountability?

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If someone presents in the ER claiming to be Moses wearing a robe, and sandals, they are sent for a psych eval.  If an obvious male comes in with artificial breasts, and unaltered male genitalia, the staff must agree with his perception. It affects the suspected diagnoses, drug doses, and surgical treatment. If this person was born male, despite any surgeries, they have a prostate.  They could have cancer there. How would you know?  It doesn't end well, as this example shows:

 

Our society has gone absolutely insane. It's just a shame that people have to die because of it.

 

I suspect that it goes a lot deeper than that when it comes to sex not being accounted for when it comes to the effects of prescription drugs but doctors and researchers are human and therefore subject to being influenced by the same things the rest of us are, so who really knows the true extent of the damage that is being done when certain interests seek to deny biology.

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[3f...]
Yes and guess why? Because we have a menstrual cycle, almost all modern medicine is based on research done on men's bodies from the 50's onwards. The sexism of women not being considered 'stable' test subjects heavily skewed and biased most fundamental medical research. No joke. And we are completely different, hormonal cycles affect medication metabolism and effects as well. And this relates to the study and treatment of all diseases, not just medication.
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[3f...]

Kinda throws a wrench in the progressive idea that men and women are the same, huh?

 

No because you're confused, that movement is about equal RIGHTS, not sameness. It was never about that at all.

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Kinda throws a wrench in the progressive idea that men and women are the same, huh?

 

No because you're confused, that movement is about equal RIGHTS, not sameness. It was never about that at all.

 

Yes, correct. There are obviously physiological differences between men and women....and some nots-so-obvious ones. In trying to find some answers about my disequilibrium, I just read a medical journal article called "Sexual Dimorphism in Vestibular Function and Dysfunction". Aside from the hormonal differences, apparently there are structural differences between men's and women's vestibular systems.

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Kinda throws a wrench in the progressive idea that men and women are the same, huh?

 

LOL! I really like the way you think!

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No because you're confused, that movement is about equal RIGHTS, not sameness. It was never about that at all.

 

I am not confused at all. The so called "rights" movement constantly denies biology in the name of an agenda, even differences that are obvious to a causal observer.

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How original. Some ignorant dude hijacking a relevant discussion about women's biology to push his arrogant sexist agenda.

 

If you are going to accuse me of having "an arrogant sexist agenda", maybe you could point out what I said that could in any way be construed as sexist.

 

Denying biology to further an agenda is very relevant to this discussion. hothot posted an example of how this insanity can actually kill.

 

Most of us are here because of bad science and denial. If you don't see the parallels I feel bad for you.

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Hormones.  Both sexes have them and they differ. 

 

P.S.  Not to mention other differences...  I think different is cool.  :) 

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There are skeletal differences too -- the pelvis, the femur -- and obviously, other physiological differences, such as reproductive organs.
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Yes, the more I look, the more physiological differences I find documented.  Obviously, when there are generalizations or stereotypes made based upon true bias or agenda, everything gets stupid.  And true sexism from either sex is always stupid. 
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I agree and wish more was known about this. It seems to me that women seem to be hurt more by benzos than men.

I will never forget the day, almost 7 years ago, when I stumbled upon a study done by a Canadian doctor titled "Women and Benzos." In it she detailed the horrific things that can happen especially to women who take benzos. It was like reading my life's story: balance problems, falls, fractures, especially of the femur. Social and Legal problems. Trouble holding a job, trouble with relationships." ALL of that happened to me. And a lot more. That was my first enlightened moment in my journey off benzos, reading that study.

east

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in my country there are doctors who are already working well with treating men and women differently regarding meds- when it comes to pain killers for example I have often heard that aspirin works very well for most men but can be useless for women, so they tend to give women ibuprofen instead of aspirin. I forgot the explanation for that.. I was once told about it in a hospital..
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I was about to leave, but I do not believe FG was being sexist or arrogant.

How original. Some ignorant dude hijacking a relevant discussion about women's biology to push his arrogant sexist agenda.

 

If you are going to accuse me of having "an arrogant sexist agenda", maybe you could point out what I said that could in any way be construed as sexist.

 

Denying biology to further an agenda is very relevant to this discussion. hothot posted an example of how this insanity can actually kill.

 

Most of us are here because of bad science and denial. If you don't see the parallels I feel bad for you.

 

Just even saying "so called rights movement" implies that equality is not real, this is inherently sexist and extremely arrogant. So is reducing a movement for equal rights between the sexes to a "progressive agenda". Human rights are not an agenda.

 

Your opinions have nothing to do with facts and in no way support this discussion, but sound more like whiney gripes attacking equal rights.

 

Saying that the whole agenda is constantly denying biological differences is some utter bs that you just made up to support your opinions, not an actual fact. It in no way contributes to any relevant discussion. I sincerely doubt that anything I say will convince you otherwise.

 

 

This type of sexist thinking and denial of it being a problem is what caused this entire issue in the first place. You are part of the problem, and you are blind to it. I really don't care about your opinions, they are yours and you can have them, but you don't get to make up facts.

 

Further, I'm not going to sit here and say nothing, because I'm actually scientifically educated and have researched this issue for years and have factual evidence to back it up. Not just making broad generalizations to broadcast my opinions on women's rights being a political agenda...  and I'm not going to continue to respond to you because it's a waste of my time. You will never hear me.

 

The truth is that the reason women's biological differences were not included in founding medical research was not BECAUSE of the feminist movement, it didn't even exist yet. This is what you are implying and it's absolutely sexist bs. You are shifting the blame of the scientific bias off of sexism back to women and this is wrong of you. The truth is we were considered 'inferior test subjects' by men, and women weren't even allowed much entry into science as a profession at the time because of this type of sexism. Guess what, because of the equal rights movement, we are now, and so I know more than you do. But your comments and responses show me that your male privilege can't handle that.

 

I was about to leave, but where in this thread is he shifting any blame for anything to women in particular?  Please quote.  As you wrote above:  "You are shifting the blame of the scientific bias off of sexism back to women and this is wrong of you."

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Pardon my quirky writing above and below the quote above.  I can't edit.

 

Not that I take back either of what I wrote above or below the quote, but my editing privileges were taken away from me as I corrected myself too often according to Administration here, so I could not include both writings neatly in one spot.  Hopefully, I will not be admonished by a moderator for sharing such.  If I am banned for mentioning such truth, so be it, but I think that would be quite harsh of any moderator/admin.

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