“Smile or Die” The Darker Side of Positive Thinking

[[Rx...]]

On a lighter note, how about this dude's debating style?    I'll have to make a note of this approach. 

 

[[mo...]]

For me it does have everything to do with the domination of what is acceptable “truth” while making judgments of what is “positive” or “negative” and what is acceptable for other adults to say and hear.

 

It has to do with the control of valid, accurate and verifiable information and the control of the individual and groups of individuals. It has everything to do with being selectively inclusive of only those who adhere to the spoken and unspoken rules of those who determine these things out of fear, the lack of ability to be objective and who also determine them out of the motives they have to alter and shape information to their own personal preference(s) and advantage of comfort and security so that what is acceptable and tolerated as the status quo suits them and avoids their triggers... and not necessarily what is morally correct or even considerate of other’s triggers for panic, anxiety and stress.

 

It’s totally legitimate to try and focus mostly on what is going right, what is good/benign/non-threatening and uplifting. There is nothing wrong with this. Nothing wrong with focusing on what is wholesome and healthy. But to make judgments on what kind of factual information we can share and look at which may serve as important and even life-altering or life saving knowledge is immoral in my opinion. For example, bzds, are we only allowed to know and ask certain things about this class of drugs? Seems like that to me. Or another example would be labeling someone on benzobuddies as “negative,” because they think and feel it necessary to have and be able to express (with consideration) a full rage of emotions, not just those that are considered and judged as being “positive.”

 

Anyway, thank you so much for supporting me and wishing me a happy birthday Lapis2, abcd, lookingforward, begood, PeacefulHope, seltzerer and cookienose. Really helped me a lot on that hard day. I’m not sure how great I’m doing with resolutions, but it’s very sweet and cool what you guys did for me that day and it’s good to know I’m not all alone in some of the things I think and feel are important from you and others here.

[[...]]

Fantastic post, mp, every word of it. 

[[Rx...]]

Caring is too much a bother for forced positivity types anyhow.  After all, if everyone keeps in line smiling, there's no need for caring.

[[Ma...]]

The movement of positive thinking ... a special friend of mine. Why? Cause my father was a big fan and other family members. While everything went straight into hell, they kept yelling the mantra "no, I JUST THINK positive - and my life will be positive", and denied the real problems. The movement made them helpless and as a child I had to be the family ruler then. I was 5 years old.

Later I read a lot about it and event tried it myself but I remember what I said to a therapist - and I was a kid that day - "well, my life is still horrible. If you can think as positive as you can to change my life, I would be thankful. Harder than me no one can try. Could you?"

[[ea...]]

LOL Florida Guy! I kinda agree, but there IS some truth in this stuff. I got through an awful WD by forcing myself to think more positively. I FAKED it til I did make it.

But you cannot erase childhood damages by thinking positively. Many people have been hurt by stuff that happened before they were old enough to actually think. I was, for sure. I am now 69 and have learned to live with that damage. It didnbt kill me but it sure made my younger years miserable.

Life goes on despite this stuff.

[[Rx...]]

I got through an awful WD by forcing myself to think more positively. I FAKED it til I did make it.

 

Good for you, east.  This is about forced positivity upon others.  Like dictating how others SHOULD feel.  I feel no need to fake anything.  Works for me.  Whatever worked for you.  Live and let live.   

[[Be...]]

Someone awhile ago said to me, "Stop whining and think positive."  Boy, did that make me angry.  I told that person, "You're not in my shoes."  A person who says that stuff has no compassion or empathy, IMO.  They just want the rest of the world to be on their "positive" delusional cloud and those who aren't annoy them.  I wonder what they do when the chips are really down? Just keep saying to themselves, just keep thinking positive?  If they got run over by a car and were in the hospital and barely alive would they continue to just think positive?  It's so annoying.  I think people should act the way they feel.  I hate the fakey types who are always thinking positive when as being human, we all suffer to some degree.  Well, maybe not all.  Some people do have charmed lives.

[[Fl...]]

This just hit me- I would bet that this is another side effect of the decline of religion. People have a strong need to believe in something. People are simply substituting one spiritual theory for another.

 

LOL Florida Guy! I kinda agree, but there IS some truth in this stuff. I got through an awful WD by forcing myself to think more positively. I FAKED it til I did make it.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that positivity isn't beneficial. But there is a difference between keeping your chin up and believing that if you think enough positive thoughts that it will cure you of a serious illness or drop a winning lottery ticket in your lap.

 

I'm sure my ability to avoid sinking into a deep, dark hole has helped me get my life back together but I seriously doubt that it had much of an appreciable impact on my symptoms or my healing. 

[[Ma...]]

I am avidly against anyone being made to feel guilty for any negative health effects they incur. I am not not sure however where the lines are drawn in some of this Norman Cousins and others seem to have demonstrated that by exposing oneself to humor, and other environments , one may promote a more positive attitude, or at least one that may allay some negative health consequences.

 

So I am not sure what forcing a positive attitude is exactly, I can see that when one grows up in a family environment that may include a great deal of emotional toxicity that is patched over with a motto of just keep a positive attitude becomes deeply problematic to say the least. But that may be a matter of the hypocritical nature of such a position more than anything innately wrong about the proposition of positivity.

 

There does seem to be some research that shows the body does produce some positive bio chemical markers by merely smiling regardless of whether the smile is prompted naturally or not

 

Sorry if I come of as some mean spirited or judgmental advocate for positivism, or to be more accurate, behavioral adaptations that seem to have some evidence for positive results

 

 

 

 

On the other hand I am very much of a skeptic, or perhaps the term pessimist could apply, in terms of the direction of our societies and our political cultures. In this context I very much agree that putting on a happy face is not likely to get us anywhere. So I suppose , for me at least, there is no "one face fits all" approach to this question

[[se...]]

This might sound a little meta or contrarian but is this group style of (oppositional) thinking happening here on this thread too?  Seems like it's human nature and maybe these ideas take hold in certain sub-parts of our culture for various reasons.  I'm thinking of the business culture that adopted this.  Perhaps it can all be characterized as control of everyone or those that don't belong or agree but perhaps it can also be characterized as protection or safety or just simply creating (artificial) boundaries so distinctions can be made and those that belong can define their own success and judge the failures of others so they can advance their own interests and dominate other groups of people.

 

That was kind of hack data dump from me.    I have no formal eduction in sociology or philosophy but it seems there are likely other forces at play here too.

 

I too seem to recall some scientific evidence for the "power of positive thinking."  I prefer my sinister evil human spirit view above more though. 

[[mo...]]

I feel like having a bright outlook and turning one’s thoughts and attention in the direction of what is, for lack of a better phrase, healthy thinking or strong and healthy mental habits is preferable by far...

No argument (from me,) there. I think and feel it would be and is supportive to the immune system and has other benefits that are far-reaching.

 

The other thing I thought of was just that I think and feel it could and is also unhealthy to suppress, ignore or deny a full range of emotion. I don’t think it’s healthy to forbid oneself or others the actual feelings one has. That could also lead to issues with addictive behavior and impact one’s system/physical health in likely harmful ways.

 

And I don’t know how this ties in, but finally, three specific people in my face-to-face life came to mind. There is no one who would argue these three women as being anything but hopeful, grateful, uplifting, even “positive.” I bet no one would, yet all three have experienced tremendous pain in their lives and basically present as having relatively observably high levels of compassion and empathy (in my estimation.) They seem to display very little judgment toward others, too. So there is discernible “quality” to their cheerfulness, and it just doesn’t look or feel like this arrogant, hypocritical display of cheerleader-like positivity that seems to almost throughly lack any iota of humanity... so there is some kind of difference between the kinds of “positivity” (I believe the word in and of itself is a judgment) that I have seen. I flinch and cringe a bit even trying to describe the latter, I feel like it’s going to be an over-statement of how much I detest this kind of saccharine(?) attitude which seems shallow and even lacking in empathy and even manipulative to me. How else can it be addressed or better described, and what is it exactly? I’m not sure, but when I feel this way of being is used to control others and control information and social dynamics (even the work environment and places where people go for help or are in need of community) is when and where I feel it is an actual real problem.

[[mo...]]

This might sound a little meta or contrarian but is this group style of (oppositional) thinking happening here on this thread too?  Seems like it's human nature and maybe these ideas take hold in certain sub-parts of our culture for various reasons.  I'm thinking of the business culture that adopted this.  Perhaps it can all be characterized as control of everyone or those that don't belong or agree but perhaps it can also be characterized as protection or safety or just simply creating (artificial) boundaries so distinctions can be made and those that belong can define their own success and judge the failures of others so they can advance their own interests and dominate other groups of people.

 

That was kind of hack data dump from me.    I have no formal eduction in sociology or philosophy but it seems there are likely other forces at play here too.

 

I too seem to recall some scientific evidence for the "power of positive thinking."  I prefer my sinister evil human spirit view above more though. 

 

I think these are good observations and definitely valid points to be considered and discussed or debated.

 

I guess it just seemed like such a rare thing I had never heard of to even question “positive” thinking... so if I could hear from several others who didn’t mind investigating whether or not it should ever be questioned I wanted to capitalize (ha ha) on the moment!

 

Unrelated (or related,) I was just having a difficult Dec. and Jan. and thankful to have buddies.

 

(But yeah, I think those are relevant observations, *blush*)

[[Ma...]]

mon pilote said

 

The other thing I thought of was just that I think and feel it could and is also unhealthy to suppress, ignore or deny a full range of emotion. I don’t think it’s healthy to forbid oneself or others the actual feelings one has. That could also lead to issues with addictive behavior and impact one’s system/physical health in likely harmful ways.

 

 

Matt replies

 

Very well said, and I very much agree No magic formula in this regard

 

A good example might be the grieving process. A lot of times people will advise those who have suffered a loss to get over it more rapidly. This of course comes across as both unsympathetic and likely incorrect in terms of functional emotional processing

[[mo...]]

Thank you MattNapa, the example concerning grief is definitely personally applicable in that I needed help at a very young age with these emotions (surrounding grief) and wasn’t able to find it. Not adequate help, I don’t think. It seems like this is what directly led to my issues with alcohol abuse and going further down the rabbit hole until I ended up with bzds.

 

I agree too about what you mentioned about one face not being right for all. I also feel the same face isn’t right for me for every different day or moment in life, but that is me and it explains why I’d make a thread such as this here, maybe.

[[mo...]]

Someone awhile ago said to me, "Stop whining and think positive."  Boy, did that make me angry.  I told that person, "You're not in my shoes."  A person who says that stuff has no compassion or empathy, IMO.  They just want the rest of the world to be on their "positive" delusional cloud and those who aren't annoy them.  I wonder what they do when the chips are really down? Just keep saying to themselves, just keep thinking positive?  If they got run over by a car and were in the hospital and barely alive would they continue to just think positive?  It's so annoying.  I think people should act the way they feel.  I hate the fakey types who are always thinking positive when as being human, we all suffer to some degree.  Well, maybe not all.  Some people do have charmed lives.

 

Agree.

[[Rx...]]

Something else to keep in mind, for those who readily judge others for not being positive enough.

 

 

[[Ma...]]

Something else to keep in mind, for those who readily judge others for not being positive enough.

 

 

I assume this is not intended for anyone on the thread?

[[Rx...]]

Something else to keep in mind, for those who readily judge others for not being positive enough.

 

 

I assume this is not intended for anyone on the thread?

 

I assume you understand that addressing a real problem that exists in our world is okay, MattNapa? 

[[mo...]]

8)Rx, it has to be true for so many... the iceberg of suffering. Not a bad post to make. Thank you ❤️. Probably even true for the positive people (sort of joking because it’s obviously true often.) It’s good to remember not to be judgemental when possible and not to forget the message of the meme.