Is there a scale you can recommend?

[[mo...]]

Ok great to hear that is very encouraging. I've posted before that my doctor told me I'll never sleep again without meds  so I really hope to prove him wrong. I had insomnia last week but it's improved while I've held so far. I was working out very intense and got a massage maybe one of those caused it. Praying it stays at bay.

For many people sleeping has a strong element of psychology in it. I can’t believe your doctor would be so foolish to tell you such a statement.

 

The following link really seemed to help me sleep well - using Zinc and Vit B Complex before bed to get a stable Glutamate VS  GABA level.

 

http://www.holistichelp.net/blog/how-to-increase-gaba-and-balance-glutamate/

 

Glutamate excites you, GABA calms you.  Glutamate converts to GABA to calm you but it needs Vit B6 and Biotin and Zinc to do it. 

 

I also take L’theanine to reduce anxiety.

 

Bob my doc told me K-pin is safe to take as long as I want, forever if I want. I stupidly listened to him for a few years until my primary care doctor saw it on my chart and was alarmed I was taking it and explained the dangers. Then I finally did the research I should have done initially. When I told him I planned to taper off, he told me it was fine, tried to talk me out of it and told me I'd never sleep again if I stop taking it. He's a drug pusher. I can't wait to give him the middle finger.

[[...]]

Hi Bod,

 

It took one year, with symptom of course but I have noticed that some of them disappeared after 2 month but after reduction some of them came back.

[[...]]

Hi Bod,

 

It took one year, with symptom of course but I have noticed that some of them disappeared after 2 month but after reduction some of them came back.

Hi Ysa,

 

I suggest she holds her current dose (2mg) until very stable - perhaps even 2 months.  Then do a micro-taper.

 

Your mother's situation is very much like mine except I used Klonopin (every 1 mg of Klonopin equals 20 mg Diazepam).

 

To mirror my website story, to get to zero in 125 days, she would then reduce by 0.016 mg of Diazepam per day.  That is, in the website, the numbers in the excel chart would look like this:

 

1 tablet weight (you must weigh it on your scale)

1 tablet dose (get from your pill bottle)

Large end of capsule holds (0.4)

Start Dose (2)

How much to reduce per day (0.016)

 

I am not a doctor so you do what you think is best.  I am just showing you what would make her situation like the story I told on the website.

 

Send me a PM if you have questions.

 

 

[[ca...]]

Mountaintop, how did you calculate the first few numbers in your signature? The ones from 2017? Liquid, or ?

 

Bob7, thank you so much for your website and videos. With my brain fog, the videos were an awesome thing. I feel like I can control this, even though it will be time consuming... and I’m jittery as heck.

 

I’m at 1.75mg klonopin/day. My doctor took me off 30%!!!! I’ve been miserable for 6-1/2 weeks! I’m going to take control and have a plan drawn up at my next appointment. Any opinions on how far down I should go an 1/8th of a pill at a time before I microdose?

 

I got the doc to write my prescription for .5mg pills instead of 1.0s this last time. I think he will continue to prescribe with no problem, I’m just not going to do the huge cut and then wait 2 months. There is obviously a better way. Bob, did you pause for a week on the same dose any time during the microdose to catch up a little, or could you power through with few symptoms?

 

I like the idea of having the capsules ready in advance, the liquid method seems like it would be a constant reminder, and a pain in the arse every day. Thank you, 

[[...]]

Mountaintop, how did you calculate the first few numbers in your signature? The ones from 2017? Liquid, or ?

 

Bob7, thank you so much for your website and videos. With my brain fog, the videos were an awesome thing. I feel like I can control this, even though it will be time consuming... and I’m jittery as heck.

 

I’m at 1.75mg klonopin/day. My doctor took me off 30%!!!! I’ve been miserable for 6-1/2 weeks! I’m going to take control and have a plan drawn up at my next appointment. Any opinions on how far down I should go an 1/8th of a pill at a time before I microdose?

 

I got the doc to write my prescription for .5mg pills instead of 1.0s this last time. I think he will continue to prescribe with no problem, I’m just not going to do the huge cut and then wait 2 months. There is obviously a better way. Bob, did you pause for a week on the same dose any time during the microdose to catch up a little, or could you power through with few symptoms?

 

I like the idea of having the capsules ready in advance, the liquid method seems like it would be a constant reminder, and a pain in the arse every day. Thank you, 

Hi catmom,

 

If possible, you would do well to cut 1/8 of a pill, hold until stable, and continue until you get down to 0.25 mg total dose.  At that point, you can microtaper using the method in my website.

 

But it that is too hard, here is another method:

-Hold at 1.75 mg until you feel stable (perhaps use Buspar temporaraly to help get stable)

-Each day, take only 3 of you 0.5 mg tablets (1.5mg total)  while you microtaper the other 0.25mg using my website or a liquid taper - your choice.

 

To answer your question, I did not pause once I started the microtaper.  Instead, if things got too difficult, I took Buspar which seemed to help reduce symptoms to a tolerable level.  It is NOT a cure, just a tiny bit of help.  It is easy to start and stop Buspar but it doesn't work for everyone.  I think it just takes the edge off during emergencies so you can continue your taper.  I never stayed on it more than a few days or maybe 2 weeks.  I used it 3 times.

 

If you want to use the method in the website, PM me if you need help entering data into the spread sheet.  I am a doctor so it is up to you to get qualified medical advice - just need to say that bit.

 

But I am very happy to help you if I can.

 

Bob

[[J ...]]

I think I can help. I use the liquid titration method. Started from 2 2mG clonzepam pills. Used a pill splitter until I was down to taking 1 2mG pill, I kept cutting it in 1/4's until I hit a road block at 1/4. Finally worked my way down to 1/4 of a 2mg pill or 0.5. At this point, I had my Dr prescribe me 0.5mG pill.

 

Using the new dose of pill I started the milk titration. First figure out a base volume of liquid (I use milk but I read where water works too). I picked 20 mL so I found a 20 mL measuring beaker on amazon. I also ordered some 5mL and 10mL syringes w/o needles. Also get a pill crusher.

 

So now you will have a Volume(base) = 20mL and the mG level of Benzo or mG(base) = 0.5mG for my example. We want to find the number of mL to take for a step down. So now you have to pick a % drop. Most start with 10%. so now you take 100% - 10% = 90% or 0.9. Multiply 0.9 times your mGbase, my case was 0.5mG x 0.9 = 0.45mG. Now we have the variables we need. Use a equation like:

 

Vol(base)      ? of mL.  (the _____ is division)

________  = _______

mG(base).    0.45mG

 

20mL/0.5mG x 0.45mG = 18 mL.  using the syringe remove 2mL leaving (20-2 = 18) 18 mL. Drink the remaining liquid.

 

Do this for 2 weeks and give it a try but remember you will get a response from the step down so you may have to only do 5% or multiply by 0.5mG x 0.95 (using my example). Keep a log or use an Excel spreadsheet. Its easy once you get the hang of it.

 

Next step down take 0.45 x 0.9 = 0.405 or 10% step down. Always use the last step mG.

 

Crush the pill to a fine powder, dump from pill crusher to the beaker being careful not to spill any. Always mix 20mL milk (or water), shake and let sit. Next use the syringe to remove ?mL of liquid. Its not bad, try it and you will get the hang. If not PM and I will step you through it. I had to adjust mine step down from 10% reduction every 2 weeks to 5% every week. Now I take out 1 mL once every 4 days. In my case 1mL = (1/20) x 0.5 = 0.025mG.

 

Hope this helps and the format of the equation comes out.

[[wa...]]

FYI if tapering from klonopin, the 0.125 odt tablets from PAR weigh 100 mg and the ones from Teva weigh 125 mg. That means that with the PAR tabs, 1 mg of weight contains 0.00125 mg of drug, and the Teva, 1 mg of weight contains exactly 0.001 mg of drug. So, with a milligram scale, and the patience to weigh things multiple times for precision, it is possible to reduce at the rate of 0.001 mg of drug per day without the use of filler.

[[ch...]]

May I ask Bob, Did you not have any extra revving of symptoms taking B complex, I would love to take some as I used to before Valium but tried it once in the day and it ramped up the anxiety, i wondered if it helped taking it at night, and was it a particular one? I have some zinc, and decaff green tea, just wondered how these things might help me. I really do need to be able to reduce my dose which is now at 2.7mgs valium which is low enough to be diffult, My Drs don't want to prescribe anything else except some CBT later on. at the moment I am dropping .1mg every 3 or 4 weeks, but wondered if a DMLT would be easier to tolerate than cut and hold?

Any help would be appreciated, I have tablets and liquid valium to taper

 

[[...]]

May I ask Bob, Did you not have any extra revving of symptoms taking B complex, I would love to take some as I used to before Valium but tried it once in the day and it ramped up the anxiety, i wondered if it helped taking it at night, and was it a particular one? I have some zinc, and decaff green tea, just wondered how these things might help me. I really do need to be able to reduce my dose which is now at 2.7mgs valium which is low enough to be diffult, My Drs don't want to prescribe anything else except some CBT later on. at the moment I am dropping .1mg every 3 or 4 weeks, but wondered if a DMLT would be easier to tolerate than cut and hold?

Any help would be appreciated, I have tablets and liquid valium to taper

I do think a daily micro taper will help you. 

According to the article I read, you need to take a vitamin B complex and some zinc before bed to help your body converts glutamate to GABA in order to calm down.  Regardless of how downgraded your GABA receptors are, if you don’t make this conversion, your body won’t relax.

Let me know if you need me to dig up the article for you to read .

[[ch...]]

Thank you Bob, I was just worried about the B complex and my last reaction to it. Do you think a nutritional yeast would be better or is there a particular one you use? I dare not ramp up the anxiety even higher. It's so bad at the moment . How much zinc do I take? I need a way to calm things down. I worry about what to eat because of the glutamate, and I really do need to eat more as I keep losing more and more. Terrible when you are scared of food because you are already in a severe anxiety state.

I am at a loss what else will help.

[[...]]

Thank you Bob, I was just worried about the B complex and my last reaction to it. Do you think a nutritional yeast would be better or is there a particular one you use? I dare not ramp up the anxiety even higher. It's so bad at the moment . How much zinc do I take? I need a way to calm things down. I worry about what to eat because of the glutamate, and I really do need to eat more as I keep losing more and more. Terrible when you are scared of food because you are already in a severe anxiety state.

I am at a loss what else will help.

About 30 minutes before bed I take about 7 mg of zinc picolinate.  I break open a 15 mg capsule and eat half of it. There are many forms of B complex just make sure you get one that doesn’t go crazy. Some of them have thousands % of the daily recommended allowance.  Also to reduce anxiety I take 50mg L-Theanine and 200 mg magnesium Glycinate  before bed.

 

[Guest [Sa...]]

Hi Bob -

 

Which brands of vitamins are you using ? Thanks so much!

[[Ba...]]

Ok that makes sense. Thanks so much for explaining. I need to decide if it makes sense to cut the .125 in half for next taper or go the slow route. This last taper hit me hard and I was petrified.

 

Much of your situation matching mine.

 

I too started Klonopin for sleep - well I call it anxiety induced insomnia.  The Klonopin stopped the anxiety in my brain and really helped me sleep for many years.

 

Like you, I tapered by cutting off chunks - 1/8 of a pill was typical.  About every 2 or 3 weeks.

When I reached 0.125 mg, the withdrawal hit me hard.  Heart palpitations, insomnia, anxiety, short of breath, back pain, no stamina, and chest pains. 

 

My doctor said the chest pains where due to the anxiety causing my chest muscle to stay tight all day and night and so the muscles hurt.  He gave me Buspar.  I held at 0.125 mg for 8 weeks (the last 2 weeks I took the Buspar) and I stabilized.  Once stable, I started the 0.001mg per day reduction and was off Klonopin in 125 days - the symptoms were tolerable most of the time.

Bob are you saying yuo got of .125 klon (in wafer I guess?) in 3 months?  With the buspar you were ok?

 

Does buspar have the usual AD side effects-- dry mouth, confusion, etc etc?

 

Re scales, I notice the surface of mine is wearing out... ha, after over 2 years guess it will do that!  sheesh.

 

[[...]]

Ok that makes sense. Thanks so much for explaining. I need to decide if it makes sense to cut the .125 in half for next taper or go the slow route. This last taper hit me hard and I was petrified.

 

Much of your situation matching mine.

 

I too started Klonopin for sleep - well I call it anxiety induced insomnia.  The Klonopin stopped the anxiety in my brain and really helped me sleep for many years.

 

Like you, I tapered by cutting off chunks - 1/8 of a pill was typical.  About every 2 or 3 weeks.

When I reached 0.125 mg, the withdrawal hit me hard.  Heart palpitations, insomnia, anxiety, short of breath, back pain, no stamina, and chest pains. 

 

My doctor said the chest pains where due to the anxiety causing my chest muscle to stay tight all day and night and so the muscles hurt.  He gave me Buspar.  I held at 0.125 mg for 8 weeks (the last 2 weeks I took the Buspar) and I stabilized.  Once stable, I started the 0.001mg per day reduction and was off Klonopin in 125 days - the symptoms were tolerable most of the time.

Bob are you saying yuo got of .125 klon (in wafer I guess?) in 3 months?  With the buspar you were ok?

 

Does buspar have the usual AD side effects-- dry mouth, confusion, etc etc?

 

Re scales, I notice the surface of mine is wearing out... ha, after over 2 years guess it will do that!  sheesh.

I used tablet form of Klonopin, 0.5 mg per tablet.  I was dry cutting it with a pill cutter to get down to 0.125mg (cut it into 1/4 pieces).

Buspar did not have the side effects of a AD.  I took it in the morning and soon felt a dizzy high which was ok and only lasted about an hour.  Not intense, just a high like feeling.

 

[[ca...]]

About 30 minutes before bed I take about 7 mg of zinc picolinate.  I break open a 15 mg capsule and eat half of it. There are many forms of B complex just make sure you get one that doesn’t go crazy. Some of them have thousands % of the daily recommended allowance.  Also to reduce anxiety I take 50mg L-Theanine and 200 mg magnesium Glycinate  before bed.

 

Bob, is there anything you take during the day to reduce anxiety?

[[...]]

About 30 minutes before bed I take about 7 mg of zinc picolinate.  I break open a 15 mg capsule and eat half of it. There are many forms of B complex just make sure you get one that doesn’t go crazy. Some of them have thousands % of the daily recommended allowance.  Also to reduce anxiety I take 50mg L-Theanine and 200 mg magnesium Glycinate  before bed.

 

Bob, is there anything you take during the day to reduce anxiety?

Great question.  Here is my bag of tricks:

(1) Alternate nostril breathing (google it, it is amazing)

(2) 4-7-8 breathing (inhale 4 seconds, hold 7 seconds, exhale 8 seconds)

(3) YMCA - sit in sauna

(4) Exercise for sure

(5) To defeat ADHD, decaffeinated black tea

(6) some say decaffeinated chamomile tea too.

(7) MOST IMPORTANT - Prayer - Daily Prayer - ask for help - remember, if something is not worth the asking, it is not worth the having, so ask for help.