How do you mix the pill? I need help!

[[An...]]

Can someone explain how I would mix a 1/4 of a .05 mg pill of Clonazepam.

I don’t want to jump off this amount.

In milk?

 

I want to continue my taper. I am at .0125 mg per day and I can’t cut that up any smaller  so I will now try titration for a slower / smoother taper BUT I don’t know what to do?

 

Do I just add 10 drops of milk??

 

I want to do a 5-10’% taper every 2-3 weeks.

 

 

Please help me and I really do need specifics.

 

Thank you!

[[Ji...]]

Hi Angelinnny555

 

Congratulations for your decision to not jump at 1/4 of a 0.5 mg (= 0.125 mg) Clonazepam tablet. Actually it would be way too high to jump compared to the 0.025 mg recommended by Ashton's manual for this drug.

 

I will now try titration for a slower / smoother taper BUT I don’t know what to do?

Have a look here: http://bzo.spes-lavaux.ch/titration/titrationHelp.htm?help=Help

 

When most questions are answered, if you wish we can talk about the plan to reduce 5-10% every 2 weeks.

 

Have a good start!

[[An...]]

 

Thank you so much Jim!!

 

I just finished reading and I feel a bit overwhelmed because I’m not good at math.

 

If you could help me with some questions, I’d appreciate it so much!

 

After, I’d really like to begin a plan of 5-10 % reduction.

 

1) Is there any difference in  effectiveness/efficiency between milk titration and vodka?

 

2) This May sound foolish ( forgive my ignorance) lbut isn’t mixing alcohol with Benzo bad?

I realize it’s so little but .0125 mg is little too?

 

3) Gram scale or titration ... is one easier / better than the other

 

4) I didn’t understand this in that link

 

For 95% alcohol (190 proof): 1mg benzo --> 1ml of alcohol (1x)

For 40% alcohol (80 proof): 1mg benzo --> 2ml of alcohol (2x)

 

 

1x

2 x???

 

I can’t thank you enough for answering my post!!

 

I’ve been on .0125 mg for 5 weeks now.

 

I didn’t realize I was cutting too much till I found this site. I was cutting 1/4 ( .0125) of a .05 mg pill at a time ( staying at that dose for approximately 4 months)

 

5) Since it was too big of a taper, should I go back and start over or keep moving forward?

 

Thank you!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Ji...]]

Hi Angelinnny555

 

1) Is there any difference in  effectiveness/efficiency between milk titration and vodka?

Both will dissolve benzo. When dissolved with milk, the solution will be treated by the digestive system as a meal in all effects. When it goes to the stomach it will be submitted to the mechanical and chemical treatment until it is ready to pass to the small intestine where the drug was intended to operate. The treatment it underwent in the stomach acidic environment will lower the initial quantity of benzo. If you read posts in here, you will find a number of buddies actually felt a drop of effect with solutions based on milk or viscous compounded solution prepared by pharmacy. When  dissolved with alcohol and diluted then with water, the time the solution transits thru the empty stomach tract is minimized resulting in a higher absorption of the drug in the small intestine.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=204001.0

 

2) isn’t mixing alcohol with Benzo bad?

It is never good to drink alcohol while under benzo therapy. However the alcohol quantity used to prepare our solution is minuscule. Let's take an example: To dissolve a .5 mg tablet we use 2 x .5 ml of vodka. That is 1 ml of alcohol. You will add 49 ml of tap water to make 50 ml of solution. The percent of vodka in the solution is 2% while the percent of pure ethanol is 0.8%. It is so diluted that it would be hardly detected by taste. For information, manufacturers use alcohol in many cases to dilute chemicals that can't be dissolved otherwise (E.g: cough syrup)

 

 

3) Gram scale or titration ... is one easier / better than the other

Liquid taper is the best. In my humble opinion. Easier, more accurate.

 

1x

2 x???

Replace the question marks with the quantity of benzo to dissolve in mg. If you need for instance to dissolve one tablet of .5 mg Clonazepam then the quantity of 80 proof vodka needed will be 2 x .5 ml . If you need to dissolve 4 tablets of .5 mg (total 2 mg) then you will need 2 x 2 ml of vodka.

 

If you feel comfortable with the above information, have a look here: http://bzo.spes-lavaux.ch/TaperPlan.htm

 

You are really close to the end. Wish you a smooth journey towards freedom.

 

 

 

[[An...]]

Thank you again!! Really, thank you!

 

 

I don’t understand how to fill in that form.

 

I first choose liquid taper then click next.

 

Now there are 4 boxes

 

Medication, liquid solution, daily doses in taper order and planned reduction.

 

I don’t know how to fill it out.

 

 

[[Ji...]]

Hi Angelinnny555

 

Here is the first tentative with a very conservative 5% reduction/14 days. If it works well we might think to increase to 6, 7% to shorten the taper time.

 

 

The report will look like this:

The blue column refers to the volume you'll need to draw up with a 10 ml syringe and a 1 ml syringe and drink.

 

Hope it helps.

 

[[An...]]

Wow! Thank you!

 

I feel so stupid , trying to understand all this and you are making it so easy but I still am s little confused.

 

In order to do this I need to understand what I’m doing ugh.. and I’m really trying.

 

The chart:

 

Tablet size whole (.5 mg )

 

Planned quit dose (.025 ) I’m at .125 mg now , does this number .025 mean to go back up to .025 and start from there?

 

 

Daily doses in taper order ( .125 mg) this is what I’ll be taking everyday?

 

Number of tablet to dissolve (1) dissolve entire tablet of .5 mg NOT the broken 1/4 part ( .0125 ) ?

 

Total volume of liquid ( 50 ml ) if I’m adding the .5 mg pill to 1 ml of vodka ( using 40 % 80 proof) and adding 99 ml water.... I’m lost ?.... what is the 50 ml? 😕

 

Quantity (.006) ?

 

Percent ( 5.00) I get this 5% reduction every 14 days

 

 

How much of vodka if I’m using 40% alcohol 80 % proof do i mix with water?

 

I CAN NOT even begin to thank you!! I just don’t know what to say. I hope some day I can pay it forward. I am terrible at math and you are easing my anxieties by taking the time out of your day to explain this to me but I can feel I am so close!!

 

 

 

 

 

[[Ji...]]

Hi Angelinnny555

 

I’m at .125 mg now , does this number .025 mean to go back up to .025 and start from there?

No. You will start from .125 mg to go slowly down to .025 mg that is 5 times smaller than .125 mg.

 

dissolve entire tablet of .5 mg NOT the broken 1/4 part ( .0125 ) ?

Dissolve the ENTIRE tablet of .5 mg

 

if I’m adding the .5 mg pill to 1 ml of vodka ( using 40 % 80 proof) and adding 99 ml water.... I’m lost ?.... what is the 50 ml?

When you dissolve 1 tablet of .5 mg, you should NOT add 99 ml water. You will add 49 ml water. Together with 1 ml of vodka, it will make 50 ml of solution of .01 mg/ml concentration

 

Quantity (.006) ?

This is the rounded reduction quantity that corresponds to 5% of .125 mg (.125 * 5 / 100)

 

How much of vodka if I’m using 40% alcohol 80 % proof do i mix with water?

The quantity of vodka must be twice as much as the quantity of benzo in mg. For instance to dissolve a .5 mg tablet use 2 x .5 = 1 ml of vodka. To dissolve 2 x .5 tablets (=1 mg), use  2 x 1 = 2 ml of vodka.

 

In case of Clonazepam the quantity of water to add must provide a .01 mg/ml concentration. So in the case of 1 x .5 mg tablet, use 49 ml of water for a total of 50 ml solution. In the case of 2 x .5 mg tablet, use 98 ml of water for a total of 100 ml solution.

 

Hope I answered your questions.

 

[[An...]]

You are giving me hope!!

I’m getting there!

 

I’m not going to start this till I am absolutely clear on the instructions.

 

So I now have my syringes ...local pharmacy gave me

I have :

 

1 ml syringe with 100 divisions

 

10 ml syringe with 50 divisions ( didn’t have 100)

 

Empty plastic medicine bottle ( is plastic ok)?

A pickle glass jar is so big I think the medicine will get lost in there

 

I take a .5 mg Clonazepam and put it in a medicine bottle

Add 1 ml of 40 % alcohol 80’proof and let it dissolve a few minutes.

I then run tap water in a cup and withdraw 49 ml water from that and add it to the bottle.

I shake it up.

 

1) Is that correct so far?

 

2) Now how long will that last me? It’s only one pill. I suppose if I’m taking close to a quarter of a pill a day, it should be enough for four days.

 

3) should I titrate one pill at a time?

Or should I do a few pills for the week?

 

If so, just double up two .5 mg mix with 2 ml vodka ( if using 40% alchohol) with 98 ml tap water.

Three .05 mg pills with 3 ml vodka and 147 ml tap water ... is that correct?

 

4)How do i store it and how long does it stay?

 

My math is just terrible so I will need you once I get to the 14 day mark each time.

 

5) would you still help me?

 

6) I happened to note you had a seizure during your tapering. I’m sorry to hear that. I’m glad you were strong enough to continue resuming and finally be free from this med.

With this type of taper, should I be concerned about a seizure?

 

Sometimes I feel the withdrawal at night in my head ( a real foggy confused feeling ) which is always relieved after my Dose and I don’t sleep because I think I may have a seizure.

 

I will wait till I don’t get that often before beginning this although I have been on this dose 5 weeks... still I’ll wait

 

My Dr recently gave me mirtazapine to sleep  Small dose 12 mg

 

He wanted me to take the .125 mg every other day then every 3 days ect but I told him I couldn’t because after 1-2 hours past my dose schedule, i am very weird in the head. I can’t sit still and focus so he said to just stay where I’m at.

This is what led me here. I don’t want to be stuck on this dose forever!

It’s bad enough I was on .5 mg for 15 years!  No wonder I feel as weird as I do for so many years! My body wanted more years ago. I honestly don’t know how I got by without increasing.

 

Many thanks to you for all your help!!!!! You are an angel

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you

 

 

[[An...]]

I apologize. Both the syringes only have 50 divisions ...

 

So where would i stop if I am to take a dose of 12.46?

I would take 10 ml once then 2 ml (twice with the 1ml syringe)

But now in between the 4 and the 5 on the syringe is only 4 lines.

 

Perhaps I will try to get the syringes online that have 100 divisions.

[[Be...]]

I apologize. Both the syringes only have 50 divisions ...

 

So where would i stop if I am to take a dose of 12.46?

I would take 10 ml once then 2 ml (twice with the 1ml syringe)

But now in between the 4 and the 5 on the syringe is only 4 lines.

 

Perhaps I will try to get the syringes online that have 100 divisions.

 

100 Increment Tuburculin Syringe 

 

[[Be...]]

I apologize. Both the syringes only have 50 divisions ...

 

So where would i stop if I am to take a dose of 12.46?

I would take 10 ml once then 2 ml (twice with the 1ml syringe)

But now in between the 4 and the 5 on the syringe is only 4 lines.

 

Perhaps I will try to get the syringes online that have 100 divisions.

 

100 Increment Tuberculin Syringe 

[[An...]]

Thank you!!

[[Ji...]]

Hi Angelinnny555

 

I take a .5 mg Clonazepam and put it in a medicine bottle

Add 1 ml of 40 % alcohol 80’proof and let it dissolve a few minutes.

I then run tap water in a cup and withdraw 49 ml water from that and add it to the bottle.

I shake it up.

 

1) Is that correct so far?

YES. I would let the tablet in Vodka longer to be sure the ingredient is totally dissolved before adding water.

 

2) Now how long will that last me? It’s only one pill. I suppose if I’m taking close to a quarter of a pill a day, it should be enough for four days.

Correct.

 

3) should I titrate one pill at a time?

Or should I do a few pills for the week?

You can prepare your solution enough for a week (by using 2 tablets). Avoid a larger volume to conserve in jar for too long.

 

If so, just double up two .5 mg mix with 2 ml vodka ( if using 40% alchohol) with 98 ml tap water.

Three .05 mg pills with 3 ml vodka and 147 ml tap water ... is that correct?

Correct. You are as good in math as any buddie in here

 

4)How do i store it and how long does it stay?

In a closed jar with a cover, away from sunlight and in room temp. No distilled water nor refrigeration is required. Although knowledgeable buddies think it could be kept longer, try to not keep longer than one week. Carefully clean and rinse the jar and the cover before any new batch of solution.

 

I will need you once I get to the 14 day mark each time.

When you have understood most things, and you are on the way, the application will be your faithful companion until the end. You can generate again and again the same report and print it out on paper where you can keep traces of your progress with a date. You won't need me any longer but when I can I will continue to answer other questions.

 

should I be concerned about a seizure?

Seizure could occur when you are under a very high dose and you abruptly stop.  But not all people who cold-turkeyed have seizure. It is excluded that you with your tiny dose and towards the end of the taper can have seizure due to sudden discontinuation of large dose of drug.

 

My Dr recently gave me mirtazapine to sleep  Small dose 12 mg

I read from a number of posts that taking a parallele antidepressant while tapering benzo could make the taper more complex and difficult. Furthermore, you might become dependent from it quicker than you expect. Then you will need to taper it later on. You might think about learning different other coping techniques (walk, reading, yoga, meditation...) than taking drugs to sleep.

 

Hope I answered your question. The way you are determined to get rid of the drug after 15 years, I'm certain you will succeed.

 

Wish you a smooth journey towards freedom.

 

[[An...]]

thank you Jim!! I couldn’t have understood any of this without your help!

 

I won’t know how to generate the form after I complete the 14 days because I won’t know what numbers to put in?

 

1) Won’t those numbers change every 14 days?

 

When generating a new application every 14 days,

 

2) Is the tablet size always going to be .5 mg?

 

3) Is the planned quit dose always going to be .025?

 

4) Is the total volume of liquid always going to be 50 ml?

 

4) For Daily dose one , will I just add in the last number on the previous 14 th day of my schedule? The very last dose in mg? ) in my case .1190?

 

5) i think Percent will remain at 5 unless I feel I can go faster although I’m in no rush so regardless I think I’ll leave it at 5 unless there is a benefit in going faster.

 

6) Will  the quantity always be .006? Or does that change with the percentage?

 

If I just add in the numbers you did, i noticed the  application computes a very long schedule of 234 days!

 

It ends on the 234 th day with a final dose of .0247mg with an oral dose of 2.47 ml

 

7) Is it correct that if I continue at 5 % reduction every 2 weeks, this would be my schedule to follow?

If so, I will just print that and continue at that rate...

 

Is there any reason to go faster than 5 % every 14 days?

Any harm at keeping it at 5 % till finished?

 

Finally... I can’t believe in just TWO days, you’ve gotten me to this point! 

 

9) When I reach  .0247mg ( that final dose) do I jump off or continue?

 

And most importantly , I thank you again and again! I kept thinking, wow! I made it to .125ng but I had NO clue how I would proceed. I’m so grateful this board exists and for all your generous time!

 

Much appreciated

 

[[Ji...]]

Hi Angelinnny555 

 

The application has been designed to provide taperers a complete planning from day 1 to the last day of the taper process. If you use the same input, the same report will be available.

 

1) Won’t those numbers change every 14 days?

No

 

2) Is the tablet size always going to be .5 mg?

Yes

 

3) Is the planned quit dose always going to be .025?

Yes

 

4) Is the total volume of liquid always going to be 50 ml?

Yes

 

4) For Daily dose one , will I just add in the last number on the previous 14 th day of my schedule? The very last dose in mg? ) in my case .1190?

No. The report covers from day 1 to last day. Generate the report and scroll to the bottom of it.

 

5) i think Percent will remain at 5 unless I feel I can go faster although I’m in no rush so regardless I think I’ll leave it at 5 unless there is a benefit in going faster.

True

 

6) Will  the quantity always be .006? Or does that change with the percentage?

The application has been designed so that the quantity and the percent are mutually exclusive. If you change the quantity then the field for percent will be disabled and greyed out. If you change the percent field then the quantity field is disabled and greyed out. To help you get an idea of how much quantity or what percent we are using at the moment, the application calculates and sets the value of percent when you entered the quantity. Conversely it sets the value of quantity when you entered the percent.

 

If I just add in the numbers you did, i notocevthe application computes a very long schedule of 234 days!

 

It ends on the 234 th day with a final dose of .0247mg with an oral dose of 2.47 ml

This is supposed to be the duration of your taper with the conservative reduction of 5% every 10-14 days. You can try to play with the quantity/percent, you'll see these figures change a lot. Please know that many buddies tapered faster (Eg: 10%/14 days), others slower with lot of holds between doses. The point is to find a cruise speed to make symptoms manageable and in the same time have taperers functional in the daily life. Frightful might seem all those days but they will pass faster than you expect.

 

7) Is it correct that if I continue at 5 % reduction every 2 weeks, this would be my schedule to follow?

If so, I will just print that and continue at that rate...

Yes

 

8)Is there any reason to go faster than 5 % every 14 days?

Any harm at keeping it at 5 % till finished?

There are known sites that recommend to go slower at 5% every 4 weeks.  https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/learn/psychiatric-drug-taper-rates-review-and-discussion

 

While I do understand why they recommended that pace, with a few exceptions for very particular cases I would personally stick to the recommended 5-10% every 10-14 days and not taper slower as full recovery cannot begin until you have got off your tablets completely.

 

The last part of the taper exercise appears to be where our organism is more vulnerable to symptoms. This is when we need to keep low the reduction. This will avoid protracted symptoms after the last dose.

 

9) When I reach  .0247mg ( that final dose) do I jump off or continue?

When you reach that level, benzo has ceased any therapeutic effect on your body according to Ashton's. But I learnt for other reasons, symptoms-bound or psychological, a number of buddies continue to go lower. Please know also that there are others who jumped at a higher dose. I personally would not recommend it.

 

Finally... I can’t believe in just TWO days..,

Your determination to get rid of the drug has been key.

 

Hope I answered your questions.

 

[[An...]]

Thank you Jim!  For everything! 

 

[[Ji...]]

HI Angelinnny555

 

Keep us informed about your progress.

 

Have a good start!

 

[[An...]]

Hi Jim, ( and everyone else)

 

So I began to taper in April and I’ve been going very slow. I used the schedule you created for me and I’m 40 % done!! It’s amazing that I haven’t had ANY withdrawal symptoms at this rate. I wanted to stop in to thank you! If it weren’t for your kindness and support along with your patience, I couldn’t have begun this process. I was on this one pill for 15 years!!

I tried in the past but couldn’t get the pill smaller than a quarter.

Thank you doesn’t seem like enough ... but it’s all I have. 

I’ll update again.

 

PS: my Dr was impressed with the website / the schedule to taper and people like yourself! She said she will refer to it for her patients.

 

Thank you!!!