Whenever i see "Mental illneses" in articles, etc..

[[Fl...]]

I understand your stance on medication as you have obviously been harmed however my daughter would not be here if she hadn't had treatment both drugs and therapy.

 

I do believe that psych drugs have helped some people, but at the same time we need to acknowledge that there are thousands of people whose lives have been wrecked (or worse yet, ended) by these drugs.

 

The real problem is not the drugs, it is the fact that there is absolutely no way to know how an individual is going to react to them. It is a roll of the dice every time, and good luck getting a doctor to disclose the fact that no one really knows what these drugs do to the body or how an individual is going to react to them.

 

So we not only need to be skeptical of any mental illness diagnosis, but more importantly we need to be skeptical of the treatment options. The question each person needs to ask themselves is "am I REALLY mentally ill, and is taking powerful psychoactive drugs that have the potential to cause the very illnesses they are supposed to treat worth the risk"?

 

 

[Guest [sa...]]

I am completely baffled by this thread.Do not tell me there is no such thing as mental illness l suppose l imagine suffering crippling anxiety.Not all illnesses can be found on a scan or by a blood test.

    So what you are saying that people who have taken their life have imagined their depression and or anxiety.

    Absolute nonsense.

 

But then again, what is "depression" and what is "anxiety"? Can you make a consistent definition as to why it is considered an "Illness"? For it to be a disease, it must have a causation, which then, would need to have a consistent definition. Say, do we who are on Benzo PAWS have Bipolar, GAD, Unipolar, Schizophrenia, were we to analyze from perceived symptoms alone, then? Say, if i feel ill and restless, "depressed" from hypothyroidsm or something else, then woudn't using a drug with antihistaminic, anticholinergic, GABAA PAM effect just make things worse? Many philosophers themselves admit that life by default is sad because of its discrepancies between our desires and what is expected of us, then why make something as human as pain become a disease? The only guess i can make is that letting people have full-blown freedom is bad for the economy and the sovereignity of a nation, thus the need for creating a tool for societal control, to make people "functional", disregarding the real cause and effect behind it, making these "diseases" purely man-made phenomenon, unlike things like Cancers, Infections, etc...

 

Sure, being sad feels bad, but why is it a disease? For instance, if life is bad by default, specially for many people around the world who have the short end of the stick. Then death and suicide is to be expected, with each act of malice we practice, we contradict our very own ideas, deny the livelihood of our fellow humans and our very own. The idea here is that these things are just nature in action, say, if pollution is the cause of asthma, rather than stopping pollution, what psychiatry would be doing is to remedy the symptoms, while claiming it's treating the disease, it's wrong.

 

Seeing as these things exist only as subjective concepts with no antithesis nor empirical evidence to prove its legitimacy, are only made to control the behaviour of citizens and be abused to create profit, is only maintained through repeated lying and conditioning, then why take it at face value? What bugs me is not even its existance, but the fact that no one admits that this is throughly wrong, which is why reading Thomas Szasz gave me a big comfort, knowing that someone in the world explained what i've been thinking so flawlessly.

 

[[Lo...]]

I do believe that most what is labeled as "mental illness" in society is deeply rooted in trauma and family dysfunction, often passed from one generation to another. Because of these traumas, people develop personality disorders, which are often aggressively medicated over a long term period. Then, when the treatment no longer works, people end being aggressively deprescribed, with sometimes catastrophic results. Or they get prescribed other classes of psychiatric drugs to counter the injuries caused by the previous ones, ending in polypharmacy and the emergence of new problems, worsening of the prior ones and the sense of hopelessness, helplessness and a loss of identity that happens through this.  Dr. Charles Whitfield has written an excellent article about psychiatric drugs being agents of trauma, where they cause more trauma than previously existed.

 

http://nhne-pulse.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Psychiatric_Drugs_As_Agents_of_Trauma_JRS508.pdf

 

C.L. Whitfield / Psychiatric drugs as agents of Trauma

Table 2

Some characteristics of illegal and legal psychoactive drugs

Illegal drugs

• Overdose from toxic effects on body & mind

• Organ damage from chronic use

• “Dumbing-down” effect on mental & social function & self esteem

• Legal system consequences

• Most-toxic-drug rank: Phencyclidine (PCP), amphetamines, cocaine, heroin, psychedelics, cannabis

• The legal drugs alcohol & nicotine disable & kill 25X more people than all these illegal drugs combined

Legal drugs – have similar and often more toxic effects

• Organ damage from chronic use (e.g., as obesity, diabetes; fetal & brain/nerve damage, dementia, depression, anxiety,

tremor)

• “Dumbing-down” effect on mental & social function & self esteem

• Forced drugging by hospital, court & state system

• Withdrawal common & bothersome; often harmful to self & others; usually misdiagnosed

• Akathisia ± withdrawal akathisia → suicide & homicide

• Violence is common with both legal & illegal psych drugs

• “Mental illness” labeling → fear & shame, discrimination, isolation

[Guest [sa...]]

I understand your stance on medication as you have obviously been harmed however my daughter would not be here if she hadn't had treatment both drugs and therapy.

I do believe that psych drugs have helped some people,

 

Sure it helped, but on the same as MDMA, Marijuana, Cocaine, and Alcohol helped other people. Though, "help" is not something defined by doctors, but by the user himself. For instance, SSRI might make me feel good, but it kills my sexuality, then what is the point?

[[Ph...]]

I don't think this is a troll thread.  There's no doubt that at the extreme ends of the spectrum, mental illness exists.  But as symptoms begin to move more toward the middle, things get grayer and more subjective.  This is where it gets dicey and where diagnosis and treatment mistakes are often made.  In fact, I'd venture to say that in this middle gray area, knee-jerk treatment mistakes are more the rule than the exception.  And people get hurt.  It's worth talking about.

[[li...]]

If I may venture: doctors make a distinction between illness and disease, the latter referring to an objective condition, the former to the patient´s subjective experience.

 

Does that make a difference ?

 

(Note: I have rather hostile feelings against doctors right now, a personal or not so personal thing)

[[An...]]

Szasz co-founded CCHR, a Scientology front group. The other founder was the church of scientology.

 

He may have been a psychiatrist but made his living being one of the foremost critics of psychiatry.

 

Please look at this link when you get a chance.

 

http://suppressiveperson.org/2010/07/25/dr-stephen-wiseman-takes-on-dr-thomas-szasz-and-scientologys-citizens-commission-on-human-rights/

 

"Many critics regard it as a Scientology front group whose purpose is to push the organization's anti-psychiatric agenda."

 

I don't see how it has anything to do with Scientology. Just because it's against Psychiatry? 

 

OMG!

 

A couple of decades ago I accidentally became a critic of the COS. I spent a couple of years not only researching CCHR, but also the COS. I've never been a member but own an pretty well-known business. So because of my activism, the COS declared me a suppressive person. They sent their goons after me, my husband, and our business. They tried to destroy us. There are still a lot of online references that they planted. The OSA, office of special affairs came after me. They were actually successful in destroying my marriage.

 

I assure you that CCHR is a Scientology front group and the dude you are quoting and recommending worked for the COS.

 

 

[[Fl...]]

Sure it helped, but on the same as MDMA, Marijuana, Cocaine, and Alcohol helped other people. Though, "help" is not something defined by doctors, but by the user himself. For instance, SSRI might make me feel good, but it kills my sexuality, then what is the point?

 

I completely agree. But another thing we have to consider is that societal perception does not dictate the merit of any class of drug as a treatment. Just look at MJ, for example. It is still classified by the federal government in the USA as a schedule 1 drug- no medical value, however there are many, many people that would argue that.

 

What I am getting at is that the way we view drugs is screwed up on BOTH ends. Certain drugs that might have medicinal value are banned, whereas powerful and sometimes dangerous drugs like benzos are seen as "medicine". The whole system is convoluted and you simply cannot take anything at face value.

 

I don't think this is a troll thread.  There's no doubt that at the extreme ends of the spectrum, mental illness exists.  But as symptoms begin to move more toward the middle, things get grayer and more subjective.  This is where it gets dicey and where diagnosis and treatment mistakes are often made.  In fact, I'd venture to say that in this middle gray area, knee-jerk treatment mistakes are more the rule than the exception.  And people get hurt.  It's worth talking about.

 

Well said.

[[Lo...]]

Honestly, had I known better and had I been more educated and more in tune with what my brain and body needed, I'd taken an occasional Valerian root or Passion flower supplement for anxiety instead of ativan. They both cost about $3-5 dollars per supplement bottle, are completely legal, and I am very convinced I would not experience 1/100th of problems that I experienced with benzos. A lot of people who don't take psychiatric drugs take these types of legal herbal supplements and live very productive lives.

[Guest [sa...]]

Szasz co-founded CCHR, a Scientology front group. The other founder was the church of scientology.

 

He may have been a psychiatrist but made his living being one of the foremost critics of psychiatry.

 

Please look at this link when you get a chance.

 

http://suppressiveperson.org/2010/07/25/dr-stephen-wiseman-takes-on-dr-thomas-szasz-and-scientologys-citizens-commission-on-human-rights/

 

"Many critics regard it as a Scientology front group whose purpose is to push the organization's anti-psychiatric agenda."

 

I don't see how it has anything to do with Scientology. Just because it's against Psychiatry? 

 

OMG!

 

A couple of decades ago I accidentally became a critic of the COS. I spent a couple of years not only researching CCHR, but also the COS. I've never been a member but own an pretty well-known business. So because of my activism, the COS declared me a suppressive person. They sent their goons after me, my husband, and our business. They tried to destroy us. There are still a lot of online references that they planted. The OSA, office of special affairs came after me. They were actually successful in destroying my marriage.

 

I assure you that CCHR is a Scientology front group and the dude you are quoting and recommending worked for the COS.

 

Say, even if that was the case, you still don't show any argument.

[[Lo...]]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Szasz

Szasz maintained throughout his career that he was not anti-psychiatry but was rather anti-coercive psychiatry. He was a staunch opponent of civil commitment and involuntary psychiatric treatment but believed in, and practiced, psychiatry and psychotherapy between consenting adults.

 

His views on special treatment followed from libertarian roots, based on the principles that each person has the right to bodily and mental self-ownership and the right to be free from violence from others, although he criticized the "Free World" as well as the communist states for their use of psychiatry.

[[St...]]

I would hazard a guess that none of you have actually suffered anxiety or depression.l am wondering then why you were put on benzos.l totally agree that benzos are abused and other psychotropic drugs are over prescribed however I don't know about you l can only speak for myself I was not held down and forced to take any drug ever.

    Also to use the sad for depression indicates to me that you have never had depression.l know we all hold very strong opinions in this matter however until you watch someone you love more than life itself become a shell of a person you have no idea what you would do in that position.Trust me you would do whatever it takes to help them.

[[An...]]

Szasz co-founded CCHR, a Scientology front group. The other founder was the church of scientology.

 

He may have been a psychiatrist but made his living being one of the foremost critics of psychiatry.

 

Please look at this link when you get a chance.

 

http://suppressiveperson.org/2010/07/25/dr-stephen-wiseman-takes-on-dr-thomas-szasz-and-scientologys-citizens-commission-on-human-rights/

 

"Many critics regard it as a Scientology front group whose purpose is to push the organization's anti-psychiatric agenda."

 

I don't see how it has anything to do with Scientology. Just because it's against Psychiatry? 

 

OMG!

 

A couple of decades ago I accidentally became a critic of the COS. I spent a couple of years not only researching CCHR, but also the COS. I've never been a member but own an pretty well-known business. So because of my activism, the COS declared me a suppressive person. They sent their goons after me, my husband, and our business. They tried to destroy us. There are still a lot of online references that they planted. The OSA, office of special affairs came after me. They were actually successful in destroying my marriage.

 

I assure you that CCHR is a Scientology front group and the dude you are quoting and recommending worked for the COS.

 

Say, even if that was the case, you still don't show any argument.

 

Hi there,

 

I'm not here to debate/argue the merits, or lack thereof, of a psychiatrist who was so entwined with the COS. I truly believed that most people in 2018 realize that COS, and their front groups are just dangerous, to say the least. More so on a board like this where so many people have been harmed by these drugs. I'm also not going to debate whether or not CCHR is a front group for Scientology, it's blatantly obvious if you do a minute amount of research. The information is out there.

 

I'm not sure if you really believe what this guy is promoting, or being deliberately obtuse? You're certainly entitled to your own opinion,

 

Personally, I believe that most drugs are way over prescribed and Big Pharma profits madly from this practice. That, in itself, is enough to give one pause when trying to decide if something will be helpful or not.

 

However, a conspiracy theory against all psych meds and doctors who work in this field is swinging the pendulum way too far in the other direction.

 

In any event, I wish you the best of luck. Just be careful.

[[Bl...]]

The label itself isn't really the problem, it's that the label gives an excuse to drug people with sketchy chemicals that do not cure anything.

 

I can only imagine how different my life would be today if I hadn't gotten tangled up in a system that uses the mental illness label indiscriminately and uses powerful psychoactive drugs to "treat" said illnesses.

 

Just my opinion, not only can these drugs not cure these complex illnesses, but as this website magnifies by its many participants, these drugs can obviously devastate lives. Also, the fragile fabric of society is seriously compromised as a result……to the detriment of all.

 

I want to clarify, I do believe mental illness exists….but, I also wholeheartedly feel that if kindness was more freely exhibited towards one another, people would be less anxious(depressed) and hopefully less inclined to resort to meds for relief. Kindness begets kindness.....one of the best "meds" and it's free.

 

Hope things are working out FG with your recent move. Sounds adventurous!

[[bu...]]

 

 

Just my opinion, not only can these drugs not cure these complex illnesses, ...

Hope things are working out FG with your recent move. Sounds adventurous!

 

Actually, very few drugs,  of any category, cure disease or illness, but they can minimize sxs, help regulate the disorder, make the condition manageable, etc.

 

Many meds, including a wide variety of psych meds, enable people to function, and live their lives.

[[St...]]

Well said builder very few.They also all have their drawbacks and can cause permanent damage.Cancer treatment especially is very toxic however l would imagine there wouldn't be many that would refuse treatment if it were needed.

[[Lo...]]

 

 

Just my opinion, not only can these drugs not cure these complex illnesses, ...

Hope things are working out FG with your recent move. Sounds adventurous!

 

Actually, very few drugs,  of any category, cure disease or illness, but they can minimize sxs, help regulate the disorder, make the condition manageable, etc.

 

Many meds, including a wide variety of psych meds, enable people to function, and live their lives.

 

Some meds also help regulate the side effects that they have caused themselves. And if those medications are not sufficient to regulate the side effects they have caused, there are other classes of medications that can regulate the symptoms of the previous class of medications. And if the other classes of medications fail to do that, there are newer medications in those same classes of medications that can further regulate the side effects of the previous medications that still need to be taken.

[[li...]]

 

 

Just my opinion, not only can these drugs not cure these complex illnesses, ...

Hope things are working out FG with your recent move. Sounds adventurous!

 

Actually, very few drugs,  of any category, cure disease or illness, but they can minimize sxs, help regulate the disorder, make the condition manageable, etc.

 

Many meds, including a wide variety of psych meds, enable people to function, and live their lives.

 

Some meds also help regulate the side effects that they have caused themselves. And if those medications are not sufficient to regulate the side effects they have caused, there are other classes of medications that can regulate the symptoms of the previous class of medications. And if the other classes of medications fail to do that, there are newer medications in those same classes of medications that can further regulate the side effects of the previous medications that still need to be taken.

 

   

[[Bl...]]

Some meds also help regulate the side effects that they have caused themselves. And if those medications are not sufficient to regulate the side effects they have caused, there are other classes of medications that can regulate the symptoms of the previous class of medications. And if the other classes of medications fail to do that, there are newer medications in those same classes of medications that can further regulate the side effects of the previous medications that still need to be taken.

 

So true LorazepamFree.

 

I’m still hoping that the Chemo/Herceptin treatment “cured” my cancer that may have been caused by the Z-drug Ambien.

 

I was fully aware that Ambien causes cancer in rats/mice while taking Ambien daily for insomnia.

 

I planned to eventually stop taking Ambien, but it was too late.........I went into an acute stage of horrific  symptoms thus turning my life inside out.

 

Ativan soon raced into the picture and I was thrilled that this seemingly small pill helped curtail my “mysterious symptoms”…..caused by the Ambien.

 

Here I am today….scared to death to take any meds.

 

This entire ordeal happened so fast….all hindsight today. I always thought I was smarter than the pharmaceutical companies. Right…..never, never, never smarter, but I do try to proceed with due caution on a level as never before in my life. We do learn from our experiences.

[[Fl...]]

Actually, very few drugs,  of any category, cure disease or illness, but they can minimize sxs, help regulate the disorder, make the condition manageable, etc.[/b]

 

That might be true, but there is a big difference between taking an antibiotic when you have an infection and taking a benzo or AD because you feel anxious.

 

Many meds, including a wide variety of psych meds, enable people to function, and live their lives.

 

But the real question is, what is the long term prognosis of people who take these drugs? Mental illness has increased exponentially since the advent of drugs that are supposed to treat that. You can make any argument you want looking at a snapshot in one person's life, but when you zoom out and look at the big picture it tells a different story.

 

Again, I'm sure these drugs have helped some people in the short term. The problem is we have dozens of different drugs for mental illness now, but when we look at the big picture the stats tell us that people are sicker than ever. And there isn't a person, a doctor, a researcher, a chemist or anyone else that can predict how any individual is going to react on these drugs. Are you going to be the guy who gets some benefits from these drugs, or are you going to be the guy who gets sicker and sicker? No way to know before you start and good luck getting any kind of accurate diagnosis once your CNS has been compromised by a few of these drugs.

 

 

[[bu...]]

 

That might be true, but there is a big difference between taking an antibiotic when you have an infection and taking a benzo or AD because you feel anxious.

 

You don't seem to grasp that there's a big difference between "feeling anxious", and having full-blow severe anxiety disorder, or between "feeling a little sad" and having disabling depression.  Yeah, there's no doubt that many of these meds are overprescribed, but thank god they're available for folks that need them.

 

 

 

But the real question is, what is the long term prognosis of people who take these drugs? Mental illness has increased exponentially since the advent of drugs that are supposed to treat that. You can make any argument you want looking at a snapshot in one person's life, but when you zoom out and look at the big picture it tells a different story.

 

So once again, folks need to weigh the benefit against the risk/downside.  I will state unequivocally that if I ever suffer a relapse of the severe, disabling GAD I experienced several years ago,  knowing full well the risk and side effects,  I would go back on psych meds in a heartbeat.

 

Maybe you should spend some time on this forum, where folks really need their meds just function.  Yeah, they talk about the downsides, but usually appreciate what their meds do for them

 

 

https://crazymeds.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage.html

 

 

[[Fl...]]

So once again, folks need to weigh the benefit against the risk/downside.  I will state unequivocally that if I ever suffer a relapse of the severe, disabling GAD I experienced several years ago,  knowing full well the risk and side effects,  I would go back on psych meds in a heartbeat.

 

My point is "how do you know what the risks are?"

 

You keep bringing up "need meds to function". How do you reconcile that with the statistics that show that mental illness has increased since the advent of psych drugs? Does someone really "need" the meds to function because of their pre-existing condition, or has their CNS been damaged by the drugs to the point where it can no longer function without it? How would they fare in 10 years if they changed their diet, got more exercise and got CBT?

 

I am not anti-med but I have to point out that it is pretty convenient that these drugs are notorious for causing the very same issues they are supposed to treat. As soon as you take one of these drugs you are standing on the edge of a slippery slope that very well could lead you to mental symptoms you never even imagined having, you could end up polydrugged in a spiderweb of symptoms with absolutely no way to know whether you mentally ill or if the drugs are what is actually making you sick.

 

Unfortunately I didn't understand any of this when my doctor put me on the psych drug merry-go-round. So here I am today, 7 1/2 years after my last dose still suffering from severe cognitive issues and a few other things that can only be attributed to the benzo. Yay for me.

 

I now realize that my anxiety was minor and probably could have been easily treated with CBT and maybe a few lifestyle changes. I am sure there are people who suffer from mental issues that are much worse, but looking at the stats I have to think that if the drugs were out of the picture and people lived healthier and looked to therapy for treatment there wouldn't be nearly as much of a "need" for drugs.

 

Big picture folks. You have to look at the big picture. It isn't just as simple as weighing out the risk of side effects from a drug. In order to make an informed decision you have to understand what these drugs do and don't do and you have to look at the statistics of how people fare over the long haul.

[[St...]]

I am sorry you are suffering Floridaboy l can see why you are so anti these drugs.I have to say this as l feel society as a whole has changed so much over the last 30 years l believe that really that is having more of an impact on people than drugs.

   

[[Sc...]]

I am sorry you are suffering Floridaboy l can see why you are so anti these drugs.I have to say this as l feel society as a whole has changed so much over the last 30 years l believe that really that is having more of an impact on people than drugs.

 

 

Nailed it.

[[Gw...]]

FloridaGuy,

 

At the end of the day, you're not a doctor and you are speaking to experiences not your own. You're being inconsiderate and disguising it as condescending advice that you are not qualified to give. I have to wonder, why is it so important for you specifically to attempt to disprove the existence of mental illness in other Buddies? I fail to see how that is supportive. This forum has guidelines for a reason, and I'd appreciate if you gave it a rest. "I'm not anti-med, but..." kinda says it all. 

 

Builder,

 

Thank you for being a consistent voice of reason and advocate for others here.  Your posts bring a smile to my face on difficult mornings.

 

Gwinna