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[[Wo...]]

1

[[as...]]

very interesting! i have heard of people using l-Glutamate so i wonder if that is a bad thing? since those receptors are already up-regulated..

[[Pa...]]

Hi Woodrowe,

 

Can you cite your source for the above information?

Thanks,

 

Pam

[[...]]

This is interesting stuff.  I have often wondered how much of this withdrawal is actually caused by the down regulation of GABA receptors vs. the up-regulation of Glutamate receptors.  We are certainly coping with a double whammy in that the overreaction to excitatory neurotransmitters are not adequately offset by inhibitory actions in the brain (GABA) due to down-regulation.  It is most likely the overreaction to Glutamate in the brain that causes excitatory symptoms like tinnitus and tremor.  Anecdotally, the fact the Campral (a Glutamate-blocking drug) is pretty successful in treating alcohol withdrawal would seem to lend support to this theory.  I have also heard a couple of doctors mention they had a lot of success treating benzodiazepine withdrawal with Lamictal, another Glutamate antagonist drug. 

[[...]]

I wonder if there is a similar role of Glutamine.  It is my understanding that Glutamate is metabolized into Glutamine in the brain and not the other way around.  My PAWS started last December after a month of no symptoms when I took a Glutamine supplement and I have been sick ever since.  It seems unlikely that I "tipped the scale" with a single dose of a supplement, but I have always been curious about that. 

[[...]]

I have been reading that l-theanine has the ability to block glutamate in the brain.  If you have read any of my previous posts, you know I am completely skeptical of using supplements to treat this condition.  However, approaching this problem from a scientific perspective is interesting and possibly worthwhile.  One of the many doctors who treated me once suggested that the up-regulation of the GABA system occurs more quickly than the down-regulation of the Glutamate system.  This meant nothing to me at the time, but now it makes me think a little.  It could explain why I was not able to sleep or relax at all for the first six months (symptomatic of GABA down-regulation) but now all of that is normal.  On the other hand, I am still dealing with a myriad of symptoms that suggest an overexcited CNS (potentially caused by up-regulated Glutamate).  Certainly, I can (and have done) induce a "flare up" of these symptoms by ingesting MSG or other substances that raise glutamate levels.  And even for those not in benzo withdrawal but who are sensitive to MSG, the symptoms commongly triggered by this substance inculde tinnitus, anxiety, and tremors. 

 

The bottom line is that there are undoubtedly two components to this syndrome, one related to GABA and one related to Glutamate that gets very little air time in the discussion.  I am extremely reluctant to take medication that blocks glutamate and I am still skeptical of pretty much all supplements.  Furthermore, I am still 100% convinced that only time will truly resolve this condition.  I am, however, curious about the prospect of controlling symptoms by reducing the neurotransmitters that contribute to an overactive CNS.  We already know that eliminating certain substances like MSG is beneficial, so why not see if we can take it a step further to actively reduce these substances? 

[Guest [ke...]]

I eat Peanut butter, it has Glutamate in it.. but I think it's healthy..

 

As Pam asked, where is the source?

 

I would like to read it.

 

Thanks.

 

Keryn.

[[Pa...]]

I eat Peanut butter, it has Glutamate in it.. but I think it's healthy..

 

As Pam asked, where is the source?

 

I would like to read it.

 

Thanks.

 

Keryn.

 

Hi Keryn,

 

Woodrowe added a link to his first post.

[Guest [ke...]]

I eat Peanut butter, it has Glutamate in it.. but I think it's healthy..

 

As Pam asked, where is the source?

 

I would like to read it.

 

Thanks.

 

Keryn.

 

Hi Keryn,

 

Woodrowe added a link to his first post.

 

awww ok I see it..

http://www.alternativetomedscenter.com/benzodiazepine-withdrawal-and-heavy-metal-toxicity/

 

Keryn.

 

PS- Sorry Jeff, as I wrote before I need new glasses!

 

 

[[...]]

There's glutamate in most of the food we eat.  Glutamate is required for cognitve function, but having too much can cause issues for some people.  There is a ton of new research out about the role of Glutamate in seizure disorders, autism, and Alzheimer's so I think it's worth a consideration in the post-benzo discussion.  I only find it interesting because it is one variable we can potentially control.  The discussion about benzo withdrawal always centers almost exclusively on down-regulated Gaba receptors, but it's clear that these awful drugs wreak havoc to many other parts of our brains and bodies.

[Guest [ke...]]

I belong to an Epilepsy forum too, I wonder why they have not talked about Glutamate??

Surely they know?

 

 

Keryn.

[[...]]

I belong to an Epilepsy forum too, I wonder why they have not talked about Glutamate??

Surely they know?

 

 

Keryn.

 

I don't know.  There is discussion of it everywhere I have looked online.  Here are a few links:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7970002

"Glutamate is the principal excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain and, as such, it inevitably plays a role in the initiation and spread of seizure activity."

 

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/4/1043S

..."Regardless of the primary cause, synaptically released glutamate acting on ionotropic and metabotropic receptors appears to play a major role in the initiation and spread of seizure activity."

 

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1758

"Experimental work has demonstrated that repeated or prolonged seizures (status epilepticus) cause hippocampal sclerosis, presumably through excessive activation of excitatory glutamate receptors, which results in excitotoxicity."

 

http://www.msgtruth.org/epilepsy.htm

"MSG is known to interfere with anticonvulsant medication and induce seizures.  Hospitals actually advise against its use in patients taking anti-seizure medication."

 

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/129/1/96.abstract

"Metabotropic glutamate receptors (mGluRs) are G protein-coupled receptors involved in the regulation of glutamatergic transmission. Recent studies indicate that excitatory group I mGluRs (mGluR1 and mGluR5) contribute to neurotoxicity and hyperexcitability during epileptogenesis."

 

[Guest [ke...]]

I belong to an Epilepsy forum too, I wonder why they have not talked about Glutamate??

Surely they know?

 

 

Keryn.

 

I don't know.  There is discussion of it everywhere I have looked online.  Here are a few links:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7970002

"Glutamate is the principal excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain and, as such, it inevitably plays a role in the initiation and spread of seizure activity."

 

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/4/1043S

..."Regardless of the primary cause, synaptically released glutamate acting on ionotropic and metabotropic receptors appears to play a major role in the initiation and spread of seizure activity."

 

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1758

"Experimental work has demonstrated that repeated or prolonged seizures (status epilepticus) cause hippocampal sclerosis, presumably through excessive activation of excitatory glutamate receptors, which results in excitotoxicity."

 

http://www.msgtruth.org/epilepsy.htm

"MSG is known to interfere with anticonvulsant medication and induce seizures.  Hospitals actually advise against its use in patients taking anti-seizure medication."

 

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/129/1/96.abstract

"Metabotropic glutamate receptors (mGluRs) are G protein-coupled receptors involved in the regulation of glutamatergic transmission. Recent studies indicate that excitatory group I mGluRs (mGluR1 and mGluR5) contribute to neurotoxicity and hyperexcitability during epileptogenesis."

 

 

 

yep 

 

[[ve...]]

Hi.  I wonder if glutamate is related to L-Glutamine?  I read a book that suggested using L-Glutamine during a taper off prilosec. I found this article just now:

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0876/is_1997_Wntr/ai_57230900/

 

Cheers,

 

V

[[fl...]]

Always good to do this research and keep finding out new things about this syndrome.  probably best to avoid serious glutamate things like MSG and also,  aspartame as a sweetener{ very bad}.  but please don't take strong drugs like Lamictal to try to "balance" it all out.  that is the kind of  pharm and doc approach that got most of us in this mess to start with.  Docs are always trying to "balance " people out with more drugs.  that seems whacked to me now.    Flick

[[ve...]]

I agree.  I stay away from Aspartame and MSG.  I think that the L-glutamine is an amino acid which does not have similar reactions.

 

V

[[am...]]

You can find a list of foods high in glutamic acid and aspartic acid here:

 

 

http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000093092000000000000-w.html

 

 

and lowest here:

 

 

http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000000000000092093000-w.html

 

 

use the sub categories at the top for a better breakdown.

 

 

 

[[be...]]

Remeber something guys, there is such a thing as the blood-brain barrier - which is why you could eat all the GABA you want and not become sedated. Might be the same with glutamine. It my go through so many chemical interactions your body that it never passes the blood-brain barrier.