What if YOU build yourself your own taper plan?

[[de...]]

Hi Jim Hawke,

 

Have decided to wait another two weeks before I start my taper, I really don't feel stable enough at the moment.  So scattered. 

 

You have helped me enormously as when I see the plan laid out in black and white it gives me the confidence to proceed. 

 

Thank you so.

 

Dee 

 

 

[[Th...]]

...

 

                                      Reduction (%)

                  5         6         7           8             9             10

        10 0.9950 0.9940 0.9930 0.9920 0.9910 0.9900

        11 0.9955 0.9945 0.9936 0.9927 0.9918 0.9909

Days 12 0.9958 0.9950 0.9942 0.9933 0.9925 0.9917

        13 0.9962 0.9954 0.9946 0.9938 0.9931 0.9923

        14 0.9964 0.9957 0.9950 0.9943 0.9936 0.9929

 

                    Fig.1 Taper ratio

 

(Using formula (100-Reduction Percent/Days)/100)

 

...

 

Your post made complete sense to me, because I'm tapering off 0.0071 x my dose every day, and I approximated that number from 10% every 14 days. I noticed 1.0 - 0.0071 = 0.9929 which is the ratio you gave... so I think your math is spot on.

 

I hyperlinked your chart to benzocalendar.com so people can see what the different rates look like. Thanks for the great post.

[[Ji...]]

Hi ThePicard,

 

You made may day! . Thanks!

 

Let me please add a comment. When you wrote "...I noticed 1.0 - 0.0071 = 0.9929 which is...", I think you were referring to the 'day 1' dose of 1mg. But when you are at 'day 2' the dose is no longer 1mg. It's actually 0.9929 mg. And the reduction to apply is no longer 0.0071mg as it diminishes proportionally to the daily dose. It is actually 0.00704959 mg. The essence of the calculation I proposed is based on a decreasing reduction following the reduced daily dose. The only element that remains unchanged is the ratio 10%/14 days.

 

The other method widely used in this BB is to keep unchanged the reduction of 0.0071mg during the whole taper time until symptoms occur. With this method, you start with the ratio of 10%/14 days then without being necessarily aware about it, you gradually increase that ratio to 25%/14 days, 50%/14 days or higher towards the end of the taper. Symptoms might follow.

 

Thanks to let me know if you agree.

[[Ji...]]

Hi ThePicard,

 

I've just gone through the benzocalendar.com calculator and I think I better understand you now. The figures provided by that tool are in fact based on a Cut & Hold approach where after a cut, a same and unchanged dose is used for 14 days (as in our example) in a row before the next cut arrives.

 

In the calculation I tried to expose, the reduction is on a daily basis: every day that passes the daily dose decreases and so does the reduction that is proportional to the daily dose. And that process, with tiny daily cuts, evolves seamlessly until the end of the taper exercise.

 

Compared to the daily cut, the jump in the Cut & Hold approach is understandably more abrupt, more prone to symptoms.

[[Th...]]

We're both on the same page here. I was referencing the percent I cut every day every day, 00.71%, and you were referencing the percent to keep every day, 99.29%, and they add up to 100.00%. Both methods yield the same results, and require a daily taper, not by cut-and-hold.

 

For example, my dose yesterday was 0.933mg, so today's will be:

 

calculated by reducing 0.71% per day

0.933 - (0.933 * 0.0071) = 0.926mg

 

calculated by keeping 99.29% per day

0.933 * 0.9929 =  0.926mg

 

Just different ways of looking at the exact same daily reduction.

[[Ji...]]

Hi ThePicard,

 

It's just FABULOUS!

 

Not only you didn't run for your life after reading my initial calculations but from different directions we arrived as well to the same final results. I'm delighted to have had the chance to know you

[[pe...]]

Jim,

 

My dose tonight is 0.68 mg V and my fixed daily reduction is 0.1/30 mg (3 1/3 mcg) based on my MT starting dose of 1 mg. The daily percentage reduction at the beginning was 1 - (1-0.1/30)/1 = 0.33% and has grown to 0.49% as of today. I am finding that increase tolerable. I checked to see how much farther out my jump date would be if I switch to a fixed percentage of 1-0.125/30=0.42% (picking a fast taper rate than the original 10% per 30 days but a bit less than my current rate). If I switched tomorrow the change would push the date on which I reach 0.5 mg from April 6th out to April 25th. That doesn't seem too bad. So if my fixed taper becomes too challenging I will pick some fixed percentage and switch to that.

 

Cheers,

 

Peter

 

http://image.ibb.co/dpXiD7/taper.png

 

[[Ji...]]

Hi peter2017,

 

So if my fixed taper becomes too challenging I will pick some fixed percentage and switch to that

 

Thanks for your figures and explanations on how you are proceeding. May you continue to experience mild symptoms on the journey to become free.

[[pe...]]

I started my original taper under the direction of my well meaning but clueless GP on September 6, 2016 at 5 mg V. He took me on fast taper that turned my world upside down (see signature) in three weeks. I am still recovering from that bonehead advice. If I had known about microtapering and had followed a very conservative course of daily cuts equal to 0.33% per day of the previous day's dose (i.e., the method you advocate) I would have dropped below 0.5 mg  9 days ago!

 

I wish GPs and psychiatrists would be trained on both fixed reduction and fixed percentage micro-taper techniques. It would save a lot of people a great deal of unnecessary anguish.

[[Ra...]]

I started my original taper under the direction of my well meaning but clueless GP on September 6, 2016 at 5 mg V. He took me on fast taper that turned my world upside down (see signature) in three weeks. I am still recovering from that bonehead advice. If I had known about microtapering and had followed a very conservative course of daily cuts equal to 0.33% per day of the previous day's dose (i.e., the method you advocate) I would have dropped below 0.5 mg  9 days ago!

 

I wish GPs and psychiatrists would be trained on both fixed reduction and fixed percentage micro-taper techniques. It would save a lot of people a great deal of unnecessary anguish.

 

 

 

I totally agree. Have tried to taper several times with the advise of so called "professionals" only to end up in the ER or up-dosing.  I'm sure there are many Doctors and NP's that know what their doing but some don't and to tell a Benzo patient to taper in a couple weeks to a month is not good advise as I found out. Tapering is tough, it's individual and it takes patience. It's a science in itself and to get it right only the patient knows what feels right or what works. I wish you the best and I think of all the people here that are trying so hard to make a decision to get off these meds! What a brave thing to do and I pray for success. 

[[pe...]]

I totally agree. Have tried to taper several times with the advise of so called "professionals" only to end up in the ER or up-dosing.  I'm sure there are many Doctors and NP's that know what their doing but some don't and to tell a Benzo patient to taper in a couple weeks to a month is not good advise as I found out. Tapering is tough, it's individual and it takes patience. It's a science in itself and to get it right only the patient knows what feels right or what works. I wish you the best and I think of all the people here that are trying so hard to make a decision to get off these meds! What a brave thing to do and I pray for success. 

Thank you for your kind support. You are making good progress on your taper. Best wishes for continued success in eliminating benzodiazepines from your life. 

[[Ji...]]

Hello,

 

A buddie wrote me and asked for a Taper Plan for Xanax. I presented one based on a solution of 0.01 concentration

2 x 0.5 mg tablet in 2 ml of Vodka and 98ml of water will give you 100ml of solution with benzo concentration of 0.01mg/ml.

When I later found out:

Today I dissolved 20 x .5mg of X in 20ml of Vodka then once in suspension I added 280ml of water to make up 20 doses.

I was kind of frightened as the solution that buddie prepared is 3 times more concentrated than the proposed one. In that moment I warmly wished that buddie had not started to use my plan yet.

When you dissolve 10mg of Xanax in 300ml of liquid, the resulting concentration is 0.033 mg/ml (10/300) that is more than 3 times the one I used in my calculation that is 0.01 mg/ml (1/100). Please pay particular attention to the concentration as it completely alters the quantity of benzo you are reducing should you use the calculation I've prepared for a much smaller concentration.

By drinking the planned volume but this time with the new solution, that buddie unknowingly absorbed 3 times more benzo and the reduction would be 30%/14 days instead of 10%/14 days. Happily I got confirmation that my Taper Plan has been discarded.

 

Lesson learnt!

[[de...]]

That is a really important lesson to learn Jim Hawke. 

 

Dee

[[Br...]]

Once you start talking in percentages and decimal points, most people on Benzos zone out.  I was excellent in math, but while on benzos I could not fathom a 'simple' taper plan explained to me.  So I just got syringes, mixed up water and a pill every day, deleted a little each day, increasing by a line if I felt okay, and kept going.  EASY

[[Ji...]]

Hi Brainfreeze

 

How true you are! This is a good lesson indeed.

 

Thanks.