LORAZEPAM TO VALIUM

[[JA...]]

Hi Beeper,

I'm am still a little confused. You suggested the possibility to substitute the valium for the lorezapam at the 9:30 dose & continue the rest of the day"s schedule, that I've been currently on.  So what's your opinion of the .5 lorezapam mg dosage that I take at 7:30 am?  Some  other questions I need to ask.

#1 : If I attempt to completely  c/o to valium at the 9:30 dose & find I am too sedated for work, any opinions on what I should do?

#2 : What would be the next suggested time period to c/o from lorezapam to valium?

#3 : Is there a chance that I may become tolerant to Valium during this c/o stage before I can start a taper?

 

Thanks so much for everyones help.  Jayne

[[Be...]]

Hi Beeper,

I'm am still a little confused. You suggested the possibility to substitute the valium for the lorezapam at the 9:30 dose & continue the rest of the day"s schedule, that I've been currently on.  So what's your opinion of the .5 lorezapam mg dosage that I take at 7:30 am? 

 

I'm not sure what you are asking for my opinion about.  If it's about whether you should combine your 7:30 and 9:30 doses into a single dose, I think I said that my opinion is if you aren't having a problem dosing that way, I don't see a problem with continuing to do so for the time being. 

 

Some  other questions I need to ask.

#1 : If I attempt to completely  c/o to valium at the 9:30 dose & find I am too sedated for work, any opinions on what I should do?

I think I would wait a week or so to let my body get used to the valium and if I still felt too sedated, I would probably reduce the lorazepam a little since you would notice the effects (less sedation) sooner than if you decreased the valium.  As I said earlier, the valium equivalencies are a kind of average and you may not need as much as you are getting if you get too sedated taking the full dose on top of the usual lorazepam.

#2 : What would be the next suggested time period to c/o from lorezapam to valium?

This totally depends on how you react to this latest change in doses.  I used every 2 weeks as a goal for cutting but didn't always follow it.

#3 : Is there a chance that I may become tolerant to Valium during this c/o stage before I can start a taper?

I think a benzo is a benzo is a benzo when it comes to tolerance so it's always possible that you may become tolerant at any point in time, regardless of the mix of lorazepam and valium.  Nothing you can do to head it off other than continuing with your crossover and then, after a few weeks, start tapering. 

 

Thanks so much for everyones help.  Jayne

 

You're welcome.  I didn't crossover to valium so these are just my best guesses based on what I've read.  Hope this makes more sense now.

[[JA...]]

Beeper,

Your reply really helped & gave me the confidence to keep me going!  This valium sure has different characteristics than the lorezapam.  Ativan in my

 

system was like a quick anxiety fix,but of course after all these yrs, I was in that tolerant stage & wasn't educated on these benzo's.  I am sleeping thru

 

the night now  on valiumm which I had't done for years.  Plan to stay the course & get over this c/o stage as soon as I can, so that I can start a taper.

 

Many thanks  Jayne

 

 

[[Be...]]

I'm glad to hear it, Jayne.  Once you get into a routine where you don't really have to think about how much of which benzo to take when it will be much easier.  I actually used one of those pill containers you get at the drugstore and loaded it up at the beginning of the week so I wouldn't have to think about that lousy pill anymore - until the next week. 

[[JA...]]

Just thought I’d try to get some feedback on a question I have.  I’m in the process of crossing over from Lorazepam to Valium.  Almost complete with this but want to know if anyone has any suggestions as to how I can handle my reduction from the 40 mg of Valium?  I’ve been looking at the Aston schedules, and I am still a bit confused because I’m not on any of the three proven workable schedules & would feel more confident, if I were able to select one of the schedule’s stages.  If I were to start the simple withdrawal schedule #2 of 40 mg of Valium, the schedule suggests 20 in the AM and 20 in the PM.  Just two dosages per day.  I’m concerned 20 mg at a one time dosage in the AM is going to be way too much for me to function at work, actually know it would be for me.  Schedule #3 c/o from 6mg lorazepam to valium substitution, does have the doses given 3 x day.  Schedule #8 c/o from 3 mg lorezapam to valium is again 3x day.  Does any one have any good ideas  as to where I might be able to pick up on one of the Ashton schedules, keeping in mind that I’m a bookkeeper and need to be able to function during the day. 

 

I have my last stage of c/o this coming Saturday. This is a quick recap of what I’ve accomplished since 9/2/10.

9/01/10                      5Mg Lorezapam=50 benzo

9/2/10>9/07/10 -        3.5L+15V=                Daily total  50 benzo

09/08/10>09-/10/10  3L+15V=                      Daily total  45 bnzo

09/10/10>09/25/10    2.5L+15V=                    Daily total  40 benzo

0929/10                      2L+15V=                    Daily total  35 benzo  bad w/d went back up

        to 40 benzo

09/27/10>10/04/10    2L+20V=                    Daily total  40 benzo

10/05/10>10/14/10/    1.5L+25V=                Daily total 40 benzo

10/15/10>10/21/10      1L+30V=                  Daily total  40 benzo

10/22/10> Lst wk c/o  .5L+35V=                  Daily total  40 benzo

 

As of today, my daily schedule is this now:

 

7:00 Am-.5 Lor.  9:00 AM 10 Val  2:30 PM 10 Val  9:30 PM 15 Val  Totaling .5 Lor & 35 Val equaling 40 mg

 

 

One last question. If you were to look at what I’m taking, which has been working, what schedule and at what stage-week could I be on.  I really want to get on one of the Aston schedules, so that when I go into my Dr. I have a solid plan to present him.  I realize that everyone systems is different, but anyone out there with experience with Valium, could you please help me!!!!!!

 

Thanks,

Jayne

 

[[Pa...]]

Hi Jayne,

 

I don't have any experience with tapering, but it looks to me as if you're making this too hard.  It seems as if what you're doing is working for you, so trying to fit it into a schedule by Professor Ashton is unnecessary.  You're making your crossover work for you, you're doing this smartly and safely.  When you're crossed over to the Valium, you can arrange it to fit your lifestyle and schedule.  You can dose three times a day, take a heavier dose at bedtime or only dose once a day.  The key to any taper is flexibility and a willingness to experiment in order to find what works for you.

 

If I've oversimplified I'm sorry, as I said I don't have direct experience, so I might be missing your point.  We have another member Oleander who is tapering Valium and she seems to be doing a great job, you might want to look her up.

 

Pam

 

 

[[JA...]]

Hi Pam,

Thanks much for your reply.  I"m the person who needs a defined schedule to start my taper. To be honest, I didn't do well in the beginning c/o because I tried to taper too quickly. Now, by having a semi-schedule, I'm doing much better. I know some people have no problems , but yesterday I was late  1 1/2 hours with my afternoon dosage & really noticed the effects of the delay. I"m going to start the taper off Valium very soon.

 

I just read a forum reply by Colin to "may i please have a schedule made", where he made some suggestions that I thought were very insightful.

 

Do you think Colin would be able to take a look at my last post & perhaps give me some suggestions.  If so, how do I contact him?  I know he is probably really busy with trying to help so many people.  Thanks Jayne

 

[[Pa...]]

Hi Jayne,

 

I understand.  Can you tell me exactly what concerns you have about Professor Ashton's schedule 2?  Is it the heavy dose in the morning?  If it is, then as I said, you have the option to take your doses in a way that fits your needs.  If you're worried about feeling too lethargic in the morning, then it's very common for members to take more of it at night.  You could even split up the 40 mgs and take it 3 times a day. 

 

Just to let you know, from what I've read of Oleanders and Keryn's journey's, the sedative effects of the Valium greatly reduce as you get used to it and progress with your taper, so your concerns about the morning dose may work itself out.

 

Colin may stop by, I don't know, but lets keep talking about this until you feel comfortable.

[[JA...]]

Hi Pamster

 

Just wanted to thank you, for the prompt feedback, very kind of you.  I guess my concern

lies in the fact that I’m just not sure just exactly where I’m at in the c/o-taper.  I keep going back to the Ashton schedule 3 (6 mg’s dosage) ativan to valium and Ashton schedule #8 (3 mg dosage) ativan to valium.  There must be proven success with all the people she has helped, using these 2 plans.  I was never just on valium (schedule #2), showing 40 mg of valium. So if you look at what I’ve been doing at night, I can’t seem to understand going to 20 mgs x 2 on that schedule.  I guess I just can’t figure out how to break up the schedule #2 to fit more than 2 dosages.  I thought I should try to follow a 10% taper schedule.  I’m just not good at math and can’t figure it out.

 

So, I’m I just not getting it.  I probably need to be dosing 3 times, per day, so if I don’t want to go into some kind of withdrawal, do I add more at bedtime (although I’ve been sleeping OK), and lower the dosage in the AM?  If I go to, say 3 times a day, any suggestions as to the dosage break out per week to taper?

 

Sorry if I seem a little confusing, must be just trying to get off this stuff, and still be able to work.  This is our busy time and the end of the year is a real stress producer.

 

Thanks,

Jayne

 

[[Pa...]]

Hi Jayne,

 

It's tough trying to communicate this way, isn't it?  I read and reread what you write as I'm sure you do with what I write, but we're doing our best and eventually we'll get there.

 

Are you okay with the way your crossover is going, can we eliminate that from this discussion, if not, could you be specific with your concerns?

 

I think I'm hearing that when you're fully crossed over to Valium, you're not sure you'll be comfortable taking two 20 mg doses a day?  I also get the impression that you're wondering about the taper percentage, instead of relying on the dose reduction's she's outlined?  

 

I'll address the Valium Ashton issue for now until I hear from you that we need to talk about your crossover.  Valium has a half life from 20-100 hours, so you could probably get away with dosing only once a day if you had to, but to maintain a steady level in your bloodstream, two is advised.  I've not heard anyone tapering from Valium mention interdose withdrawals.  

 

When you're fully crossed over and ready to begin, you can do a little experimenting to find out what kind of dosing schedule works the best for you.  This is the key to a successful taper, making it work for you.  The schedules Professor Ashton supplies are simply guidelines we use to set our own schedule.  

 

If it were me, when I got to the 40 mgs of Valium a day, given your concerns, I'd take less in the morning and the rest in the evening.  If that leaves you too groggy the next morning, you could add a third dose during the day.  You might even find that the 40 mgs is too much for you, that you'll want to start tapering a little more.  You need to realize that we're all different in how we react to these drugs, that each of them come with their own set of characteristics.

 

I know you need things in black and white and we'll try to get you as close to that as possible, but there will still be some gray.

 

Keep talking, lets get you feeling better about things.  

[[JA...]]

Hi Pamster

 

Quote#1

 

You’re a great person, so patient, I know you hear this probably every day.

Ok, my c/o will be complete as of tonight & no questions on it.

(Sorry, if I seemed obsessed with all my posts but just trying to simplify, to any one willing to help me by showing at one glance my history.)

Quote#2

I understand Ashton’s schedule is just simple guidelines.

I need to taper 3x’s a day because, for some reason my system is giving me symptoms when I go longer.  Maybe, because I was on Ativan, since 1987.  So I will be at 40 mg of Valium starting tomorrow.  When you look at Ashton’s schedules, she has tapered

off schedule #2 in about  26 weeks, schedule #3 36 wks, schedule#8 19 wks.  There must be some proven experience in how she tweaked these dosages because from ativan 6mg & 3 mg she’s tapered, a bit differently, weekly with each at different times during the day through much of the taper.  If a benzo is a benzo, then, what is your opinion on using schedule #7 for Xanax, starting at week stage 13, which is at 40 mg of valium, to taper down, for some kind of a schedule to follow, showing me a  weekly taper dosage plan. 

I’ve done great, getting c/o from ativan with everyone’s help, but I’m the type of person that needs to look at a schedule & see, ok, this is where I’m at.

 

I tried to post to you today but had to get off 3x’s because I was continually interrupted.

Our retail family business is open 6 days a week, & I’m the only person doing payroll, A/R,A/P, sales tax, deposits & more.  If only my Dr. had given me some warning that he wanted me off this earlier this summer, which is our slow time, at our business, I could have taken a day off, if I were having any trouble.  I don’t really have that option. Year end is with everything else is a lot to handle.  I’m just trying to make this a slow, smooth taper until I get off Valium.

 

Didn’t mean to write a book here, just trying to explain where I’m coming from.

 

Thanks for your help.

Jayne

 

[Guest [ke...]]

Jayne,

 

I'm going to weigh in here a bit, the valium will become less sedating as you taper down.. when I c/o, the Valium was very sedating, it was so sedating, I could take my last dose for the day and fall asleep for 12-14 hrs. It was a relief compared to Klonopin I was tapering, Klonopin was rough! Valium is very hard to describe when you start tapering it, it's like when you taper down it's from level to level.. when you cut, you have sx's for 2 days and then by the 4th day..it starts leveling out, by the 8th day, you should feel almost ready to cut again, it varies really.

As you cut down, the sedation starts leaving, BUT it feels good in many ways, as you find facing problems without the sedation of a pill becomes a strength! Keep the right mind set, don't look back, move forward.. there will be better years you can look back and hold your head high and say, "wow I did that?"

I'm not always feeling good, but I do have window's, now when you feel the sedation leave, don't think, "It stopped working!" The sedation is just a side effect from the valium.. the valium is still working.. just taper slowly and no need to hurry.. with Valium you have to really watch the cuts because they add up, but then smooth back out again.. I say it's better to face a wave with a surfboard and not head-on with a crash.

 

Keryn.

 

[[Pa...]]

Hi Pamster

 

Quote#1

 

You’re a great person, so patient, I know you hear this probably every day.

Ok, my c/o will be complete as of tonight & no questions on it.

(Sorry, if I seemed obsessed with all my posts but just trying to simplify, to any one willing to help me by showing at one glance my history.)

Quote#2

I understand Ashton’s schedule is just simple guidelines.

I need to taper 3x’s a day because, for some reason my system is giving me symptoms when I go longer.  Maybe, because I was on Ativan, since 1987.  So I will be at 40 mg of Valium starting tomorrow.  When you look at Ashton’s schedules, she has tapered

off schedule #2 in about  26 weeks, schedule #3 36 wks, schedule#8 19 wks.  There must be some proven experience in how she tweaked these dosages because from ativan 6mg & 3 mg she’s tapered, a bit differently, weekly with each at different times during the day through much of the taper.  If a benzo is a benzo, then, what is your opinion on using schedule #7 for Xanax, starting at week stage 13, which is at 40 mg of valium, to taper down, for some kind of a schedule to follow, showing me a  weekly taper dosage plan.

 

I’ve done great, getting c/o from ativan with everyone’s help, but I’m the type of person that needs to look at a schedule & see, ok, this is where I’m at.

 

I tried to post to you today but had to get off 3x’s because I was continually interrupted.

Our retail family business is open 6 days a week, & I’m the only person doing payroll, A/R,A/P, sales tax, deposits & more.  If only my Dr. had given me some warning that he wanted me off this earlier this summer, which is our slow time, at our business, I could have taken a day off, if I were having any trouble.  I don’t really have that option. Year end is with everything else is a lot to handle.  I’m just trying to make this a slow, smooth taper until I get off Valium.

 

Didn’t mean to write a book here, just trying to explain where I’m coming from.

 

Thanks for your help.

Jayne

 

 

I feel you should go with the multiple doses in the beginning, just to make sure you don't have problems, then of course adjust if necessary.  When I look at Professor Ashtons schedules I see that #3 is for 36 stages, but the crossover took the first 13 stages, so the straight diazepam taper didn't start until the 14th stage, ending in the 36th stage, making it complete in 24 stages.

 

In looking at schedule 7, it will take you 24 stages to be benzo free, schedule 2 will get in done in 24 stages.  I don't see any difference in the two schedules other than the dosing times each day.

 

Schedule 2 is straightforward and it can be completed in 24 stages.

 

Schedule 7 starts at 40 mgs, the 13th stage, then continues on schedule 3, the 26th stage for a total of 24 stages. 

 

Both schedules start at 40 mgs and end at 1 mg for a total of 24 stages. 

 

 

I'm sorry to hear you're so busy, but I can see why you need to be at the top of your game.  According to many here, the Valium should give you the greatest chance of doing just that.  Lets keep talking if you still have questions. 

[[JA...]]

Hi there again!

Your response cleared every thing up for me . Thanks!

 

OK, yesterday was my first day on Valium only, the c/o complete (w/o loreazpam)  I messed up!

 

I dropped 5mg of benzo to a total of 35 mg without realizing what I had done.  It happened in the day time dosages so I beefed up my bedtime to 20Mg's Valium to bring me up to 35.  OK, any one with experience with Valium, should I try to stay on 35mg or bring it back up to 40mg & then taper as planned?

 

Wow, this is really an experience to go though!!

 

Thanks everyone Jayne

[[Pa...]]

Hi Jayne,

 

I'm glad we finally figured this thing out!    I see you got a couple of good replies on the other thread you started, so you're good to go?  Please let us know how you're doing, okay? 

 

You can keep posting here or in your other thread, either is fine.  Or, you could start a Buddie Blog and talk to us there. 

[[Ol...]]

Jayne,

 

Can you tell me where you are on my journal page?  I think you might be posting somewhere else.  I am no expert but did use Ashton Method to an extent and could try to answer any questions you have.  I was MIA from my page for a bit due to family issues and school but want to find you.

 

Oleander

[[Pr...]]

Hi Jan,

You just calmed my fear of tapering from Ativan to Valium slowly using the Ashton Method.  I have a doctor appointment

this week and will now stand firm on how I want to taper using that plan.  I'm sure everyone goes thru a stage of

fear and anxiety over withdrawing.  I am there now but feel better having read your post.  Thanks so much

[[Ja...]]

You can dose three times a day, take a heavier dose at bedtime or only dose once a day.  The key to any taper is flexibility and a willingness to experiment in order to find what works for you.

 

Pam

 

 

Hi Jayne

I haven't read your entire thread as I haven't been online too much lately, but wanted to let you know that I after I completed a cross-over from Ativan to Valium in January, I had to change the dosage schedule from two times per day to three times per day to even it out for me. This goes in line with Pam's statement about 'willingness to expirement in order to find what works for you.' I couldn't tolerate the heavier PM dosage as Valium was having an opposite affect on me (stimulating vs. sedating). And I was still feeling some interdose withdrawal perhaps from being on that same 2xs per day Ativan schedule which wasn't even for a great length of time (I am not sure, I'm assuming.) Now that I've broken it out into 3 even doses per day, things are much smoother. There is a big difference for me and I'm much more comfortable. Everyone is different, but I did listen to what I was feeling and got some excellent advice from other members to help me straighten this out! Hope this helps and wish you continued success with your cross-over and soon taper.

Best,

Jan