Can reinstatement restabilization really take this long? it's been 3 weeks

[[no...]]

Hi nova

 

A quick question - how did you persuade your gp to updose? BAT have suggested the same to me and written to gp but he is not budging, even though he knows the dire straits I'm in!

 

Many thanks

Hi geemo  I just did it by myself no Doctor involved, I tapered under my prescribed dose and stashed the spare boxes, I'm now still under my prescribed dose  with the updose. Is there another Doctor you can speak to at your surgery at all? Or have you told B.AT they won't budge to see if they can help further, did they write to the GP, or you?

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

 

[[no...]]

Hi nova

 

A quick question - how did you persuade your gp to updose? BAT have suggested the same to me and written to gp but he is not budging, even though he knows the dire straits I'm in!

 

Many thanks

geemo  show these to your Doctor....

 

Doctors-finally-admit-patients-hooked-tranquilisers http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3915114/Why-250-000-lives-ruined-mother-s-little-helpers-Doctors-finally-admit-patients-hooked-tranquilisers.html

 

 

Letter from British Medical Association to UK Department of Health https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwoPAGe8hqAlb293ZUs0SXE1ckk/view

 

 

 

In the above letter they refert to the N.I.C.E guidelines there on this link

https://cks.nice.org.uk/benzodiazepine-and-z-drug-withdrawal#!scenario

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[no...]]

I'm going to print them out and send them to my Doctors as well, I avoid mine, I've also been too ill to go see them for 2 years due to hell taper and symptoms keep me housebound and although they know I cut down a while ago,  as I had to ask for lower dose Diazepam, from 10mg, to 5mg then 2mg pills. They don't know that I continued trying to taper further. I kept it quiet as I was afraid they would bloody stop them after what one I idiot said when I last asked them for help concerning benzos 

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[no...]]

  Please, Yes our BeGood is truly an angel.  She has reached out to me also and has helped me so much.  I am also an odd case.  My burrning neuropathy and other things are so severe.  They really hardly let up at all anymore.  I kind of stopped posting those things because there is really nothing anyone can tell me that I haven't tried already.  I understand how hopeless and scared you feel, I feel the same every day.  I also don't state it much, I just say I'm hanging in there.  Have you been to a good neurologist?  I don't remember if you have answered this already but even if you have seen one I would try another one.  Maybe they could give you some better info.  I am keeping you in my prayers and hopefully one day we both can say boy, I feel better today.  Until then, this is the best place. Hoping you feel some better soon.

 

Thank you free......a year ago at this time I did see one.... EEG, cat scan, MRI , normal... He was baffled and did not deny the drug had an effect on me... He ruled out anything serious....

 

Of course, I am much worse now.... I am too sick to leave the house ...cant stand very long / very agoraphobic/ dizzy/weak and I am also petrified of being labeled and diagnosed/ or misdiagnosed with an illness .... It would push me over the edge ....such as I have dystonia or tardive dyskenesia..I know there's no cure and my sxs present as such.....it would devestate me to officially hear it...its all a living nightmare... I know they would try to push more drugs on me....

 

At the same time, if they saw me and ruled out stuff it could allay my fears.. I just know I couldn't handle it.......

 

I wish a neurologist could make a house call and  examine me in my home!!!!

 

I hope you get relief soon, too and thank you so much for the well wishes

 

PBH  Your above post you said  ****I have dystonia or tardive dyskenesia****. Its not, its definitely withdrawal, it's happened to lots of people its a symptom, I've had lots of symptoms that perfectly mimic known illnesses and some no one else has had but their ALL withdrwal symptoms . It happened to a Member called Fliprain on here, here's her success story, you'll see all your symptoms in there then some 

 

FLIP'S FREEDOM http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=104132.0

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[Pl...]]

Thank you dear Nova so much for that ((.    ))))

[[no...]]

Hi loveandhatebenzos  and the rest of you who updosed how are doing now? Any changes your aware of at all? I'm still not stabilised but am not expecting an overnight miracle as I'm a long term user and was in bad tolerance withdrwal and unaware what the real problem was  for years on my full prescribed dose. I don't buy into it happening once you taper as before I know I had it I stabilised after going up and down in dose by doing what I done now going back up to a higher dose holding and waiting before I joined BB, my problem began with then using Ashton's method.

 

While I'm grateful for this forum being here otherwise I wouldn't have met some of the wonderful people who have been a great help, and good friends, I thought I was doing it wrong at my own pace and that it HAD to be done 'Ashton style' that was way too big cuts not long enough holds. And being advised to ''keep cutting'' while being in agony and getting worse, and I ''its normal''  seriously destabilised me and I've been sufering and getting nowhere but worse. 

 

It took sometime before to stabilise and I was able to then cut at my own rate with minimal symptoms but living a full life and travelling for the first time in many years and I also learned new things I wanted to do for years like Scuba diving, and I was in a world of pain and housebound like now as well. I've now got symptoms I never ever had before I cut too much and carried on in agony being told its meant to happen, the one good thing to come out of this hell is I know now its not the misdiagnosed ''illnesses'' I was told I had, and  that puts me in control to a certain extent. Such as not drinking, smoking weed, or Cigarettes as that was hit and miss and I never knew why at times I was fine doing it and other times man! 

 

I was in hell but still thought it was my ''illnesses'' firing up then subsiding. That's why as soon as I found out my ''symptoms'' were Benzo related I stopped it all the same day, and I can't member exactly but It took me maybe 2 months to stabilise the last updose. It may have been a bit longer or less time but that then enable me to keep cutting with no or minimal symptoms allowing my body to dictate the cutting rate not time  until I did the 'Ashton shuffle'' that's when it all went tits up. 

 

But that being said I have read posts on here where people contacted Professor Ashton herself and she personally told them to reinstate and try again or updose hold to stabilise even if they had to do I more than once before they were able to continue tapering successfully I many cases, so there you go. I do not believe it has to be Martyrdom to get off these drugs just try, try again and keep trying until you eventually succeed trying again with bearable no symptoms if your lucky and not everyone suffers acute after jumping either, some people slip off with nothing unusual and call it an anti climax I call it wonderful!! 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[Guest [su...]]

Read Ashton Manual, she says that some people dont get stable before they are done with the taper. I think it can take time to get stable even after zero. I taper diazepam and I'm never stable during my taper. I had tried to hold even for months but I still feel some w/d sxs. I guess use alcohol is a bad thing,  it trigger GABA and the drug and you can get even worse w/d. I have my own experience of this. I stopped drink alcohol and this is over 18 months ago. I' m way to afraid of the nasty w/d alcohol bring to my body and really bad anxiety.

[[ly...]]

 

 

Sundance,

 

Your signature is not up to date  but my guess is a too rapid taper didn't allow for stabilization.  The problem with Ashton is that she did not allow long holds to stabilize.  I believe the max was 2 months (someone pls correct me if I'm wrong).

 

Baggyblum (not sure that handle is exact) has had extensive talks with BAT, a benzo advisory group in the UK and the info from them is very enlightening.  They state that everyone can stabilize given enough time and that wd can then proceed in a tolerable fashion.  This is my experience, fwiw.

[[no...]]

Read Ashton Manual, she says that some people dont get stable before they are done with the taper. I think it can take time to get stable even after zero. I taper diazepam and I'm never stable during my taper. I had tried to hold even for months but I still feel some w/d sxs. I guess use alcohol is a bad thing,  it trigger GABA and the drug and you can get even worse w/d. I have my own experience of this. I stopped drink alcohol and this is over 18 months ago. I' m way to afraid of the nasty w/d alcohol bring to my body and really bad anxiety.

 

summermeadow

 

    Buddie

    *****

    Posts: 5,530

    Gender: Female

    Two GABA receptors in love.

        View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

 

Re: updosed and feelings about ashton/being judged

« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2011, 11:37:44 pm »

 

 

Hello Gardendreams,

 

I too was updosed by my doctor. It is in my signature line. You are not alone. Not updosing is NOT all that Ashton says. I put together some information from Ashton that may be helpful.

 

I am the type of person who seeks to know what is happening and why, it brings comfort to me. I hope it does the same for you.

 

 

“The Ashton Manual” by Heather Ashton, 2002

 

COURSE OF WITHDRAWAL

 

“One reassuring finding from many clinical studies is that eventual success in withdrawal is not affected by duration of use, dosage or type of benzodiazepine, rate of withdrawal, severity of symptoms, psychiatric diagnosis, or previous attempts at withdrawal. Thus, from almost any starting point, the motivated long-term user can proceed in good heart.”

 

Chapter 2

 

Designing and following the withdrawal schedule.

 

11.” If for any reason you do not (or did not) succeed at your first attempt at benzodiazepine withdrawal, you can always try again. They say that most smokers make 7 or 8 attempts before they give up cigarettes. The good news is that most long-term benzodiazepine users are successful after the first attempt. Those who need a second try have usually been withdrawn too quickly the first time. A slow steady benzodiazepine withdrawal, with you in control, is nearly always successful.”

 

 

She also says that this is a trial and error and finding our own way is what matters. Please know that you are not alone and go ahead and update your signature line. We are not alone. You are going to be just fine.

 

Love,

Summer

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[Guest [su...]]

 

 

Sundance,

 

Your signature is not up to date  but my guess is a too rapid taper didn't allow for stabilization.  The problem with Ashton is that she did not allow long holds to stabilize.  I believe the max was 2 months (someone pls correct me if I'm wrong).

 

Baggyblum (not sure that handle is exact) has had extensive talks with BAT, a benzo advisory group in the UK and the info from them is very enlightening.  They state that everyone can stabilize given enough time and that wd can then proceed in a tolerable fashion.  This is my experience, fwiw.

 

Oh it is my taper plan i use...I had wrote my plan to march next year 

[[Pl...]]

Pleasebehere I hope we get some more opinions on your status, as it is common to many of us here I would think.

 

Love,  Please don't let me die ... I'm in horrible torment and I'm scared.... I'm sorry for sounding so desperate and dramatic.... I've just endured for far too long and I can no longer cope... i desperately need relief.... i can't imagine being in this state tapering ...if I knew tapering would relieve the sxs I would start immediately....  I just dont know whats going on...,I'm afraid of the pill doing me in either way...

 

You are kind to show interest in my welfare and I hope your condition resolves sooner then later too..

 

Hi PBH  Don't fear the benzo, its the Glutamate that's doing this to you caused by not enough Benzo, as it is the rest of us as it flood the brain as the does gets dropped, what's happening to you is severe withdraw, and if that were me I would do what I'm doing now as I had the same problems. Up-dose by 1 or 2 milligram, tiny amounts won't be enough to pull you out of this, been there tried it got worse, and hold there for a while to see if you stabilise its possible you may have to go higher but that's the way I'm doing it for now.

 

The last time I was stable was two years ago so I'm going back up bit by bit to the dose I was on then, as of yesterday after holding at 5mgs for 11 days I have now added another 1mg and will now hold there for a bit and see how I do. We need to find the dose that stabilises us if its going to be higher than I want to go so be it, whatever it takes to survive, be comfortable then resume tapering without ending up physically an mentally crippled by symptoms I am now doing.

 

I now have woken up to the fact My symptoms are my body screaming at me the dose is way too low and its not coping as its not able to catch up, there is no to ways about it that's the problem and now I'm doing what I should have done two years ago instead of being in hell all this time, and unable to continue tapering no matter what I tried and getting worse each time I tried.

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

Dearest Nova.... Thank you for your heartfelt response sooooo much ...

. I was desperately looking for some opinions on my situation

 

But for me I never felt good on the drug ever and it is not my original benzo....

Kolonopin is so strong and potent and it renders me useless and feeling

Like a zombie

with a thick cloud of depression from my sxs and the drug itself

And when I reinstated originally I already did so

at double the equivalency of ativan....

Ativan was too strong for me and Kpin

Is twice that and I didn't know

 

Oddly, i did not feel the strength of this drug right away-

By the time I did- it was too late

I remember when I first took it

I updosed even more to 1.25 from 1 mg !!!!!!

and my heart rate and bp went up and I

Literally was comatose for a week ; I could not move -

I had to go back down to 1 mg and my body settled barely

 

when i realized even 1 mg was too potent

it had already been a couple of months

I could not go down the .25 from 1 mg as I wanted too- as the sxs

came roaring back

and I also couldn't go up

I think Miyu on the Long Hold Support thread

had a similar experience with strength of Kpin

 

I also reinstated after 10 months.... Was damage done already?

I think the properties of this drug make it different- but what do I know?

 

I also seem to always see Valium working for people in this regard

where holding and updosing working

I never see stories like this for kolonopin ever  :'(

on the long support thread- never

its all Valium and Xanax and maybe ativan

 

I wonder if bat aid is familiar with a story like mine and with kolonopin

as the U K does not

Use kolonopin?.

 

If I was using Valium I would have so much more

confidence in doing exactly

what you are - as I see it works with Valium

Time and time again

 

My cns has been so sensitized I cannot imagine even crossing over at this stage either

 

I am like you; debilitated and unable to function

 

I feel stuck and terrified

Just switched back to pills from milk for 2 weeks now

Felt like a HUGE updose

Perhaps this is my updose?

I feel like I was in a semi cold turkey

State for 6 months!!!! What an idiot!!!!

I could barely drop in less then a year

1 mg to .92 mg on that liquid

 

I Feel stuck trapped and forever hopeless

It feels like the drug is toxic and killing me

 

I also have the most bizarre sxs on here no one has

What went wrong with me?

 

I see all the errors I made and they are

All in hindsight

 

Your story trials and struggles inspire me so much

I pray wait and hope for an answer

I know if something doesn't change soon

I will not be able to continue this way - meaning

I think my body is just going to give way

 

 

My deepest healing wishes always being sent to you - I always read

Your posts as you help so many (((.      ))))

Sorry so long

Hi sweetie  ring  or Email B.A.T they will help you, their helping others from USA that ring them, and their hours are 9am till 7pm Monday to Friday, If you need help or advice

 

B.A.T Contact

By Telephone:

 

Local helpline                0117 9663629

 

National helpline        0844 826 9317*

 

By Email:                          support@bataid.org

 

*Service charge 7p per minute PLUS access charge per minute set by your network provider

 

 

Also have you asked about being switched to Diazepam at all? And don't forget to look at the equivalent dose changes between klonopin and Diazepam to make sure you get the correct dose. 0.5 klonopin is the same strength as 10mg of Diazepam. And just because a drug is another Benzos does not make all Benzos equal at all, they all work differently I know as I've been on lots of different ones and found others easier to get off and other hell to get off. The same as human families, having the same name doesn't make then all one person 

 

 

BENZODIAZEPINE EQUIVALENCE TABLE

(Benzodiazepine Equivalency Table)

http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

Dearest Nova..... When you call BAT how much time do they give you to talk to them? Is there a limit like 10 minutes or do they give you as much time as you need to explain situation?

 

Just curious as to how to approach.... Thank you so much!!!!!

[[lo...]]

Hi loveandhatebenzos  and the rest of you who updosed how are doing now? Any changes your aware of at all? I'm still not stabilised but am not expecting an overnight miracle as I'm a long term user and was in bad tolerance withdrwal and unaware what the real problem was  for years on my full prescribed dose. I don't buy into it happening once you taper as before I know I had it I stabilised after going up and down in dose by doing what I done now going back up to a higher dose holding and waiting before I joined BB, my problem began with then using Ashton's method.

 

I'm not in 100% deadly acute withdrawal anymore, it's been just about a month now at full reinstatement. I'm probably still always in at least 50% withdrawal, with it being worse towards each dose. I don't know what the fuck to do, this is really scary because I'm becoming agoraphobic and crazily OCD again even back on .75. Once my life fell apart I never really got it back. Although, my social anxiety is pretty much better, I'm just now too depressed to care or go out and do much, and my confidence / self esteem is pretty low.

 

I guess I'll hold another month and see what happens? idk...

I definitely have adrenal fatigue which blows. Hopefully my hormones and shit level out in another month of nice sleeping and good eating. I am so scared of not improving / getting worse, while still being on this poison.

[[Pl...]]

I just looked at the website for the Bristol Tranquilizer Project ( or something close to that name)

 

They stated once off to never reinstate....

I wonder why the disparity between BAT and Bristol on this subject?

That seems to me that they both don't agree on this topic?

Does one organization know more then the other?

It seems they have both been in existence for the same amount of time....

It makes me lose confidence... You would think they would be on the same page

If they've seen all kinds of cases 

[[lo...]]

See I'm not sure. This is where we differ though; I was never off. I was still in the middle of my taper with .375 clonazepam in me, I was never benzo free.