herbs...

[[be...]]

Anyone using herbs with any success? I know most of them are gaba antagonistic. Is there one that isn't  HURTIN

[[Be...]]

What do you mean by "herbs"—supplements? the ones in your kitchen? medical marijauna or canibinoids? All have effects to a certain extent during withdrawal and recovery. If I were you I'd do a search in the alternative therapies section of BB.

[[ne...]]

I think the key may be how to interpret "GABA mimetic effect." It does NOT say it acts ON GABA, but 'GABA mimetic effect."

 

Thoughts?

 

"It was also found useful in neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinson's, Huntington's and Alzeimer's diseases. It has GABA mimetic effect and was shown to promote formation of dendrites. It has anxiolytic effect and improves energy levels and mitochondrial health. It is an anti-inflammatory and anti-arthritic agent and was found useful in clinical cases of Rheumatoid and Osteoarthritis. Large scale studies are needed to prove its clinical efficacy in stress related disorders, neuronal disorders and cancers.."

 

"Anxiolytic effect:

 

Ashwagandha induced a calming anxiolytic effect that was comparable to the drug Lorazepam in all three standard Anxiety tests: the elevated plus-maze, social interaction and the feeding latency in an unfamiliar environment. Further, both Ashwagandha and Lorazepam, reduced rat brain levels of tribulin, an endocoid marker of clinical anxiety, when the levels were increased following administration of the anxiogenic agent, pentylenetetrazole.

 

Ashwagandha also exhibited an antidepressant effect, comparable with that induced by imipramine, in two standard tests, the forced swim-induced ‘behavioral despair’ and ‘learned helplessness’ tests. The investigations support the use of Ashwagandha as a mood stabilizer in clinical conditions of anxiety and depression. (Abdel-Magied et al., 2001)"

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3252722/

[[ti...]]

Sounds promising. I hate that usually all medical reviews of supplements usually state that they are both ineffective and damgerous, consult your dr. If the supplement has no effect, how can it have bad effects?

I like this article

[[Bu...]]

Hope this helps with the hurtin and helpin' stuff, 

 

Good Luck.

 

WHAT YOU SHOULD NOT TAKE:

 

The items for which the evidence is wholly substantiated and conclusive, and hence should definitely be avoided.

 

1) GABA RECEPTOR AGONISTS:

 

VALERIAN (VALERIANA OFFICINALIS)

KAVA KAVA (PIPER METHYSTICUM)

PHENIBUT

PICAMILON

GABA

GOTU KOLA (CENTELLA ASIATICA)

TAURINE

ASHWAGHANDHA (WITHANIA SOMNIFERA)

CALIFORNIA POPPY (ESCHSCHOLZIA CALIFORNICA)

SKULLCAP (SCUTELLARIA LATERIFLORA)

CHAMOMILE (MATRICARIA CHAMOMILLA)

ALCOHOL

GHB / GBL

NEFIRACETAM

 

2) GABA REUPTAKE INHIBITORS:

 

GABA REUPTAKE INHIBITORS will also induce down-regulation of the GABA RECEPTORS with prolonged usage, and hence it is recommended to avoid prolonged usage for the medium or long-term.

 

PASSION FLOWER (PASSIFLORA INCARNATA)

TIAGABINE (BRAND NAME: GABITRIL)

 

CANNABIS THC and other MIXED CANNABINOIDS contained within CANNABIS stimulates a short-term spiking of GABA, but is followed by a subsequent LOWERING OF OVERALL GABA LEVEL.

 

CAFFEINE Inhibits GABA production.

 

POSSIBLY TO BE AVOIDED:

BETA-ALANINE

LEMON BALM (MELISSA OFFICINALIS)

HOPS (HUMULUS LUPULUS)

NIACINAMIDE / NICOTINAMIDE

 

 

WHAT IS SAFE AND EFFECTIVE TO TAKE:

 

MAGNESIUM

BACOPA MONNIERI

RHODIOLA ROSEA

RELORA (MAGNOLIA OFFICINALIS and PHELLODENDRON AMURENSE)

THEANINE

 

AND POSSIBLY:

 

PIRACETAM (at 9.8 - 24g total daily dosage)

INOSITOL (MYO-INOSITOL)

BACOPA MONNIERI:

 

BACOPA MONNIERI in fact might prove very helpful, since this has been shown in studies firstly to NOT be a GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST, but has in fact been shown to upregulate down-regulated GABA receptors, which means it could prove highly useful in helping to treat recovery from GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST ADDICTION: As Benzodiazepines are known to produce amnesia by involvement of the GABAergic system, we examined Bacopa monniera, an herb known for memory enhancement for reversal of memory deficits caused by diazepam.

 

RHODIOLA ROSEA

RHODOLA ROSEA's primary mechanism of action appears to be threefold; firstly, that of MAO INHIBITION; secondly, that of INCREASING levels of ENDORPHINS and ENCEPHALINS; and thirdly, by INHIBITION of CORTISOL release, thereby lowering CORTISOL levels. Whilst RHODOLA ROSEA is demonstrated to yield ANXIOLYTIC effects at appropriate dosages, it should be noted that TOO HIGH a dosage can in fact induce of worsen ANXIETY symptoms.

 

RELORA (MAGNOLIA OFFICINALIS and PHELLODENDRON AMURENSE)

RELORA is a proprietary blend of two herbal extracts, namely MAGNOLIA OFFICINALIS and PHELLODENDRON AMURENSE, which provides safe and effective ANXOLYTIC effects via a CORTISOL REDUCTION mechanism of action. I should mention that in my clinical practice, despite the brand's marketing information regarding RELORA, it does in fact appear to cause sedation in some (but not all) people which can be a 'deal-breaker' regards taking it for treating ANXIETY; however, there are many people who can take RELORA without any side effects whatsoever, whom find it a helpful adjunct in treating ANXIETY.

 

THEANINE: Could be a highly useful ANXIOLYTIC, since it DOES NOT function as a GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST but UPREGULATES THE PRODUCTION OF GABA within the brain, functions as a GLUTAMATE RECEPTOR ANTAGONIST, and enhances ALPHA-WAVE production within the brain.

L-theanine is a unique amino acid present almost exclusively in the tea plant. It possesses neuroprotective, mood-enhancing, and relaxation properties.

 

 

INOSITOL (MYO-INOSITOL)

Firstly, it is important to note that there are in fact many different forms of INOSITOL and that MYO-INOSITOL specifically is the form that possesses possible ANXIOLYTIC and ANTIDEPRESSANT physiological therapeutic effects. Not good for people with adhd.

 

MYO-INOSITOL’s primary mechanism of action specifically with regards to its ANXIOLYTIC effects appears to be that of UPREGULATION of the SEROTONIN RECEPTORS; possibly through functioning as a PRECURSOR to the PHOSPHATIDYLINOSITOL CYCLE, which is the second messenger system for several neurotransmitters including several subtypes of SEROTONIN RECEPTORS.

 

MYO-INOSITOL does not appear to affect actual MONOAMINE levels, which would include SEROTONIN and GABA.

 

The scientific evidence supporting MYO-INOSITOL’s ANXIOLYTIC efficacy is somewhat inconclusive, in that there exists some conflicting evidence supporting its ANXIOLYTIC effects; this is further compounded by mixed anecdotal user feedback reports, in that some individuals report that they find it to be an effective ANXIOLYTIC, whereas others report no ANXIOLYTIC effect whatsoever. Furthermore, there is substantiated evidence that MYO-INOSITOL’s ANXIOLYTIC efficacy is somewhat dependent on firstly what is the SCALE of the ANXIETY, in that MYO-INOSITOL appears to be significantly less effective in treating ACUTE ANXIETY than it is in treating CHRONIC ANXIETY; and secondly on what is the TYPE of the ANXIETY DISORDER, in that for example it appears that MYO-INOSITOL may be somewhat effective in treating OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE DISORDER (OCD) and PANIC DISORDER, but less effective in treating STRESS RELATED ANXIETY, such as POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER (PTSD). However, it should be noted that SIDE EFFECTS include: INCREASED ANXIETY, INSOMNIA, and GASTROINTESTINAL UPSET, including (but not limited to) DIARRHEA, NAUSEA, FLATULENCE, and STOMACH UPSET.

 

 

Wilson 

 

[[Ce...]]

Hi!  Just a bookmark!   

[[te...]]

Hope this helps with the hurtin and helpin' stuff, 

 

Good Luck.

 

WHAT YOU SHOULD NOT TAKE:

 

The items for which the evidence is wholly substantiated and conclusive, and hence should definitely be avoided.

 

1) GABA RECEPTOR AGONISTS:

 

VALERIAN (VALERIANA OFFICINALIS)

KAVA KAVA (PIPER METHYSTICUM)

PHENIBUT

PICAMILON

GABA

GOTU KOLA (CENTELLA ASIATICA)

TAURINE

ASHWAGHANDHA (WITHANIA SOMNIFERA)

CALIFORNIA POPPY (ESCHSCHOLZIA CALIFORNICA)

SKULLCAP (SCUTELLARIA LATERIFLORA)

CHAMOMILE (MATRICARIA CHAMOMILLA)

ALCOHOL

GHB / GBL

NEFIRACETAM

 

2) GABA REUPTAKE INHIBITORS:

 

GABA REUPTAKE INHIBITORS will also induce down-regulation of the GABA RECEPTORS with prolonged usage, and hence it is recommended to avoid prolonged usage for the medium or long-term.

 

PASSION FLOWER (PASSIFLORA INCARNATA)

TIAGABINE (BRAND NAME: GABITRIL)

 

CANNABIS THC and other MIXED CANNABINOIDS contained within CANNABIS stimulates a short-term spiking of GABA, but is followed by a subsequent LOWERING OF OVERALL GABA LEVEL.

 

CAFFEINE Inhibits GABA production.

 

POSSIBLY TO BE AVOIDED:

BETA-ALANINE

LEMON BALM (MELISSA OFFICINALIS)

HOPS (HUMULUS LUPULUS)

NIACINAMIDE / NICOTINAMIDE

 

 

WHAT IS SAFE AND EFFECTIVE TO TAKE:

 

MAGNESIUM

BACOPA MONNIERI

RHODIOLA ROSEA

RELORA (MAGNOLIA OFFICINALIS and PHELLODENDRON AMURENSE)

THEANINE

 

AND POSSIBLY:

 

PIRACETAM (at 9.8 - 24g total daily dosage)

INOSITOL (MYO-INOSITOL)

BACOPA MONNIERI:

 

BACOPA MONNIERI in fact might prove very helpful, since this has been shown in studies firstly to NOT be a GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST, but has in fact been shown to upregulate down-regulated GABA receptors, which means it could prove highly useful in helping to treat recovery from GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST ADDICTION: As Benzodiazepines are known to produce amnesia by involvement of the GABAergic system, we examined Bacopa monniera, an herb known for memory enhancement for reversal of memory deficits caused by diazepam.

 

RHODIOLA ROSEA

RHODOLA ROSEA's primary mechanism of action appears to be threefold; firstly, that of MAO INHIBITION; secondly, that of INCREASING levels of ENDORPHINS and ENCEPHALINS; and thirdly, by INHIBITION of CORTISOL release, thereby lowering CORTISOL levels. Whilst RHODOLA ROSEA is demonstrated to yield ANXIOLYTIC effects at appropriate dosages, it should be noted that TOO HIGH a dosage can in fact induce of worsen ANXIETY symptoms.

 

RELORA (MAGNOLIA OFFICINALIS and PHELLODENDRON AMURENSE)

RELORA is a proprietary blend of two herbal extracts, namely MAGNOLIA OFFICINALIS and PHELLODENDRON AMURENSE, which provides safe and effective ANXOLYTIC effects via a CORTISOL REDUCTION mechanism of action. I should mention that in my clinical practice, despite the brand's marketing information regarding RELORA, it does in fact appear to cause sedation in some (but not all) people which can be a 'deal-breaker' regards taking it for treating ANXIETY; however, there are many people who can take RELORA without any side effects whatsoever, whom find it a helpful adjunct in treating ANXIETY.

 

THEANINE: Could be a highly useful ANXIOLYTIC, since it DOES NOT function as a GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST but UPREGULATES THE PRODUCTION OF GABA within the brain, functions as a GLUTAMATE RECEPTOR ANTAGONIST, and enhances ALPHA-WAVE production within the brain.

L-theanine is a unique amino acid present almost exclusively in the tea plant. It possesses neuroprotective, mood-enhancing, and relaxation properties.

 

 

INOSITOL (MYO-INOSITOL)

Firstly, it is important to note that there are in fact many different forms of INOSITOL and that MYO-INOSITOL specifically is the form that possesses possible ANXIOLYTIC and ANTIDEPRESSANT physiological therapeutic effects. Not good for people with adhd.

 

MYO-INOSITOL’s primary mechanism of action specifically with regards to its ANXIOLYTIC effects appears to be that of UPREGULATION of the SEROTONIN RECEPTORS; possibly through functioning as a PRECURSOR to the PHOSPHATIDYLINOSITOL CYCLE, which is the second messenger system for several neurotransmitters including several subtypes of SEROTONIN RECEPTORS.

 

MYO-INOSITOL does not appear to affect actual MONOAMINE levels, which would include SEROTONIN and GABA.

 

The scientific evidence supporting MYO-INOSITOL’s ANXIOLYTIC efficacy is somewhat inconclusive, in that there exists some conflicting evidence supporting its ANXIOLYTIC effects; this is further compounded by mixed anecdotal user feedback reports, in that some individuals report that they find it to be an effective ANXIOLYTIC, whereas others report no ANXIOLYTIC effect whatsoever. Furthermore, there is substantiated evidence that MYO-INOSITOL’s ANXIOLYTIC efficacy is somewhat dependent on firstly what is the SCALE of the ANXIETY, in that MYO-INOSITOL appears to be significantly less effective in treating ACUTE ANXIETY than it is in treating CHRONIC ANXIETY; and secondly on what is the TYPE of the ANXIETY DISORDER, in that for example it appears that MYO-INOSITOL may be somewhat effective in treating OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE DISORDER (OCD) and PANIC DISORDER, but less effective in treating STRESS RELATED ANXIETY, such as POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER (PTSD). However, it should be noted that SIDE EFFECTS include: INCREASED ANXIETY, INSOMNIA, and GASTROINTESTINAL UPSET, including (but not limited to) DIARRHEA, NAUSEA, FLATULENCE, and STOMACH UPSET.

 

 

Wilson 

 

You are smart! I love your posts. I definitely have taken some of these, though, with no ill effects, but I know everyone is different (valerian, alcohol, probably something else too).  Right now not doing any of these except for the good ones you listed. I miss alcohol. I will be treating myself soon though, big life event upcoming. Will deal with consequences accordingly.

[[ti...]]

I saw somewhere on the internet that this guy got off benzos fast by taking huge amounts of GABA, Vit C and niacin.  I think we all are different.

Caffeine is weird with me.  Not an herb, but I found as little as one cup in the morning would make me feel like I was mainlining it all day.

I have heard both good and bad about magnesium

 

I purchased some formulas that have all those do not take ingredients in them.  So far no harm.

 

 

[[Kl...]]

I took magnesium yesterday evening as an experiment. So glad I was off work today. It messed me up so much. Felt like I was back in acute withdrawals and then I couldn't wake up. I nearly missed my doctor appointment as I felt like I couldn't get up to leave the house. But after a ton of sleeping I feel so much better so I wonder if it ultimately helped in some way?

 

I drink valerian chamomile tea and take ashwagandha... after stopping gabapentin I was nearly disabled from the effects. I felt like I had to turn to something.

[[ti...]]

Im taking a mixture of herbs, one for menopause the others for sleep.

I seem ti sleep well on GNCs Alteril, but it upsets my stomach. Before that I was taking a mixture of GABA, hops, chamomille, and melatonin. That seems to upset my stomach less. Even the menopause one hurts my stomach

[[Ia...]]

Everything you do, do it in moderation.  Even if it sais magnesium is ok, don't take it everyday.

[[te...]]

Everything you do, do it in moderation.  Even if it sais magnesium is ok, don't take it everyday.

 

I think this is a good mentality about many things, but I think there are many things safe to take every day.  I took magnesium every day for months before I had the issues I have now, and it was amazing. I now take theanine every morning + fish oil + a multivitamin. Not going to do this forever, but it's working right now. Well, I probably will always take multivitamins every day forever 

[[Ma...]]

CANNABIS THC and other MIXED CANNABINOIDS contained within CANNABIS stimulates a short-term spiking of GABA, but is followed by a subsequent LOWERING OF OVERALL GABA LEVEL."quote"

 

Please explain this. Where did this info come from.  I was going to use cbn. Cannabold later in my taper. 

[[Bu...]]

CANNABIS THC and other MIXED CANNABINOIDS contained within CANNABIS stimulates a short-term spiking of GABA, but is followed by a subsequent LOWERING OF OVERALL GABA LEVEL."quote"

 

Please explain this. Where did this info come from.  I was going to use cbn. Cannabold later in my taper.

 

 

Here is one of many studies that confirms the spike and lowering of gaba (and dopamine) from cannabis use. Not sure if they studied CBD.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1575338/

 

Having said and read all of that, There are so many new strains of cannabis, some that have almost zero THC and 15-20% CBD. I guess that the jury is still out on how CBD effects the GABA, dopamine and even glutamate complexes. Science is finally catching up.

 

I personally am a big fan of cannabis and enjoy the relaxing feeling that comes after the spike of GABA. I often experience a surge of anxiety for a few minutes until I settle in to a mellow relaxed state. I tried a very high CBN strain during my taper and found that it did almost nothing to alleviate anxiety or insomnia, maybe just me.

 

I believe that the cannabinoid CBN has the most promise for anxiety and sleep. As they begin to cross strains a high CBN one could prove very helpful. As of now CBN can be increased by letting the growing plant become "over-ripe" or through the process of decarboxylation. As THC degrades CBN is created; CBN is amazing for sleep, but hard to get. There are a few CBN tinctures and edibles starting to hit the market in MMJ states.

 

Bottom line I guess everyone is different and to each his own. I do not think that long term and serious damage is done to GABA or dopamine synapses from even heavy cannabis use, if it works for symptoms use it, but it may turn on some, depending upon the strain and THC and CBD levels.

 

 

Wilson

 

[[Ma...]]

I just started microtaper 4 days ago.  An feeling the throat chest tightening anxiety.  Just got some cbd oil. High quality organic in olive oil.  Never tried it.  Maiden voyage today. What do you think wilson,    5 drops?

[[Ma...]]

Wilson

 

In your post you said you tried a high cbn stains that didn't help with anxiety and sleep.  Then later on in the post you say cbn is great for sleep.  Please explain.  Do you mean cbn oil instead of high cbn flower?  Indica?

[[Bu...]]

I just started microtaper 4 days ago.  An feeling the throat chest tightening anxiety.  Just got some cbd oil. High quality organic in olive oil.  Never tried it.  Maiden voyage today. What do you think wilson,    5 drops?

 

Hi magnolis,

 

It sure is worth a try. I would take 1/2 the recommended dose and see how it goes and then titrate accordingly. This will not get you high nor will it "rev" you up. Many people had great success from it, me not so much...

 

There are some studies and anecdotal information that says that CBD is not necessarily good for sleep and may contribute to sleeplessness. So maybe don't use right before bedtime.

 

Good luck, hope it works for you!

[[Ma...]]

So cbd oil is good for anxiety??

[[Bu...]]

So cbd oil is good for anxiety??

 

That is what many users say. As I said I found it only helped a little if at all, can't hurt. I got more relief from when I smoked a high CBD strain called "cannatonic", it was 18% CBD and 4% THC... It had a very mild yet pleasant psychoactive effect.

 

Magnolis, Have you tried Theanine yet? It is my favorite by far. Although they have mild gaba agonist properties GABA, Taurine and Ashwaghanda also work very well for anxiety. As does Bacopa Monnieri, Gotu Kola, Kava Kava and Calms "Nerve Tonic."

 

I tried everything during my taper and felt that the lessening of symptoms was worth the potential slow down of the healing, if any...

 

Good Luck,

 

Wilson

[[Ma...]]

 

I tried everything during my taper and felt that the lessening of symptoms was worth the potential slow down of the healing, if any... quote from wilson

 

This is the part I don't understand. Why is lessening your symptoms (with a safe herb) slowing healing possibly?  How are the 2 related?

 

[[Bu...]]

 

I tried everything during my taper and felt that the lessening of symptoms was worth the potential slow down of the healing, if any... quote from wilson

 

This is the part I don't understand. Why is lessening your symptoms (with a safe herb) slowing healing possibly?  How are the 2 related?

 

Because some of the things that can ameliorate the symptoms work similarly to benzos and can down-regulate your GABA receptors and other things...

[[Ma...]]

Oh. Thats bad. Darn

[[Bu...]]

Oh. Thats bad. Darn

 

Hey Magnolis,

 

Like I said before sometimes the trade off is worth it... for a while.

 

 

Wilson

[[Ma...]]

Do you the pure cbd and cbn falls in the no no category?

Meaning. Everything is in degrees. Are these pure mm compounds the least of the gaba affecting remedies?  I know thc is not good.  But what I use has minimal cbn 5%; indica tincture. 5 %: and cbd. None.

Last evening I tried cbd. Good quality. For first time around 7.  It helped with anxiety and mood. Of course I'm taking valium at nite. But I went to sleep at 11 and 1st wake up was 330. That's unprecedented. Don't know if two are related?  I only use these when I have anxiety symptoms. I never just smoke indica to get high.

 

[[Ma...]]

Wilson

 

In looking at your signature and reading your success story. Your total taper time was less than most. Amazing for 12 years use of zanax.  Did you have Acute?  And most importantly do you think the combo of Mt and mm helped?