Tapering off valium

[[Ca...]]

Yes, I'm on 4and 3/4mgs of xanax and 45mgs of valium. And like I said, the biggest problem for me is the inter-dose w/d. I think I would have been better off staying on the xanax..it lasted longer. As for the flumazenil detox, I already know 3 people who have done it and so far they are fine. One girl has been benzo free for 2 months now and it took only a few days to detox her. I will research it more, but I think it sounds pretty good.

Thanks for your help.

Carol

[[Co...]]

Carol,

 

Do you take them both at the same time? If so, how do know that it interdose withdrawal from the Valium? It just seems very unlikely that you would suffer from interdose withdrawal within that timespan. It must be the case that it is your blood levels of Xanax that have dropped significantly over that hour. Have I misunderstood your routine?

[[...]]

Hi Carol,

 

Are you in the process of doing a crossover from Xanax to Valium? I know when you first came to BenzoBuddies you were hoping to find a doctor who would prescribe Valium for you to taper with.

 

You wrote then about Xanax...

I am now down to a little under 7mgs.

 

But that was without any Valium. Posting your current daily dosing schedule might help us get a better picture.

 

I know how desperate this can all seem, and detox can look mighty pretty when we feel we just can't bear this any longer. But it's not the miracle cure we would hope it to be. The old adage...If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is!...comes to mind. We have members who have tried detox; it wasn't always the pretty picture it was presented to be. Please do research it much, much more before making a decision.

 

Take care, Carol

Jan

[Guest [...]]

Hi Carol,

Our bodies do a constant detox usually via the liver then then kidneys. After 25 years of this kind of work, your liver may be rebelling. Has anyone done blood tests for liver function?

 

A drug's effect isn't determined by the drug alone. The body has some input. Bodies tend to metabolize (lose) benzos at very different rates.  Some of this may be why you have interdose withdrawals. However, Colin has given the more likely explanation.

 

Do you take Xanax and Valium at different times? Are you in the crossover process? Have you used any other kind of benzo? If so, do you remember the effect?

 

A benzo is prescribed for its main particular effect. Anti-anxiety may have been your goal.  Xanax would have been the choice, but of course it shouldn't have been prescribed for 25 years. Under six weeks would have been more responsible.

 

Anyway we use Valium for benzo W/D for its half life. It's muscle relaxing property isn't too usefull. SO when people say that 1.0mg Xanax is equal to 20.0Valium, they mean for the purpose of withdrawal. They don't mean that 1.0mg Xanax is expected to be as relaxing as 20.0mg Valium. So when you crossover to Valium, you may cover the real W/D symptoms, but not anxiety.

 

When I reached a danger point after having to use two untolerated benzos, I had been benzoless for 13 days. The neuro symptoms were worse with each day. I had a choice of Xanax or Klonopin  for stabilization. This is the time I used one Klonopin. It had no effect on my condition. I waited and used just 1/4mg Xanax. The heavy symptoms began to improve in ten minutes. These drugs are supposed to have the same kind of effect. Not only wasn't that true, the antiseizure effect was also different.

 

So I know well how different Xanax can be from Valium. Xanax is clear headed. Valium is sluggish. However Valium is useful in W/D and Xanax is very difficult. Although you could titrate Xanax every two or three hours, you can't do this at night and through a taper of 140mg in Valium equivalent. So you do need a long half life benzo for this. Klonopin is the only other choice. Its half life is shorter than Valium,but it just might make you feel less yucky.

 

Before you even consider these points, you need to be sure about what is causing the depressed feeling and what is causing interdose withdrawals. This must be clear. You'd be tapering for a long time, and that means that you need to find a method that can be adjusted for your condition.

 

Patrick was on 25.0mg Xanax. He had to taper directly from Xanax until he reached a dose small enough to be  crossed over to Valium. He is very experienced with Xanax.

 

I did try to titrate Xanax before I knew enough to do it well. I had to divide my doses into eight per day. This every three hour thing was okay because I didn't sleep as much as the three hours in between. I also had been thrust into such a bad state that nothing afterward could bring me far out of it.

 

So from that I always remember to tell people to avoid  C/T or even a large cut. It may not be possible to come out of the ensuing symptom cluster. The other thing is to do whatever you can to get sleep. That is: use things that don't affect the GABA receptors. Whatever benzo choice you make must be something that you can live with for quite a while. Drinking a bit of Xanax every three hours isn't something that people can live with.

 

Please try to get back here and tell us what your dosing schedule is. The answer might reveal your real problem. Also list your symptoms too. That could be usefull.

Jana

 

Then there are paradoxical effects. Any benzo can cause both depression and anxiety. We can't know exactly what is going on on your body right now. We do know that you are on an unreasonably high dose of benzo and your health depends on getting off of it.

[[Je...]]

Jana,

I am actually quite good at eating at the moment as i am on a low dose of avanza which makes you really hungry, I weigh 53.6kg a record for me as I never thought I would reach 50! I am still 5kg underweight but I dont look like a walking skeleton. I have a layer of fat that now covers my hip bones quite well. I am looking quite healthy in that respect!

I have now been introduced to NLP by my psychiatrists wife who happens to be a master practioner in it! I am, at last, optomistic about the future. I dont know whether I will go on the lexapro, prolly not such a good idea. I am feeling ok at the moment, although had a slight dizzy spell today. I believe it was because I took xanax yesterday to get to the psychiatrist, and also experimented with the largactil during the day. I hope that the dizzyness today was just a side effect from that. 

[[Je...]]

I am on 5mg, 2.5mg, 5mg of valium a day. I am suppose to stabalise before tapering but I am just getting worse. I feel sick all the time, and when I do anythinng physical its like Im going to be sick, I haven't vomited but I have a phobia of vomiting so I cant do anything, I cant leave the house. Its starting to drive me mad. I also feel weak in the evenings. Is this valium withdrawal. I have been on the same dose now for a month. Please I need some advice. I cant get in contact with my psychiatrist I dont know what to do.

[[Co...]]

Hi Jess,

 

I've never suffered from a phobia, so I'm not a good person to ask, but of course, there are members here who may have something to say about this.

 

You are on 12.5mg Valium per day. If I were in your shoes, I'd gradually change your dosage over a week or two so that you take 4mg (morning); 4mg (in the middle of your day); and 4.5mg at night. People find that keeping the dose as even as possible helps with the process.

 

It sounds as though you may be suffering from tolerance withdrawal (where we feel withdrawal effects, although our dosage is stable). The only solution is to come off the Valium, but in controlled manner. DO NOT JUST QUIT - it is very likely to make you a lot worse.

 

Take care.

[[Je...]]

Hello

How exactly would I change it over slowely? Im unsure as to how to do it and I dont want to make it worse by doing it wrong.

Thanks

Jess

[Guest [...]]

HI Jess,

What number of mgs are in your tablets?

 

The sick feeling is a usual effect of one kind of adrenal hormone. In benzo W/D, this hormone's effects are not managed or managed well. This is how anxiety or grief often make it hard for us to eat.

 

Herbal things like chamomile are often recommended. I thought that they might be useful for more ordinary situations, but benzo W/D is an extreme thing. There isn't going to be a single answer. You need to chip away at the problem with a bit of this and a bit of that.

 

A strong spiced tea seemed to help me, but I don't expect this to work for everyone.

Jana

[[Co...]]

Hello

How exactly would I change it over slowely? Im unsure as to how to do it and I dont want to make it worse by doing it wrong.

Thanks

Jess

 

By gradually shifting you part of your doses to the second dose of the day. I'd do it quarter of a tablet at a time, and few days days in between the changes.

 

I've just realised that you are probably using 5mg tablets. It will make things far easier if you can obtain 2mg tablets. If you are restricted to using 5mg tablets, take 3.75mg (3/4 of a tablet) in the morning; 3.75mg (3/4 of a tablet) in the middle of your day; 5mg (one tablet at night). If you are using 10mg tablets, you really do need to get a prescription for the 2mg tablets.

[[Je...]]

Well combining Xanax and Valium together, 9 weeks.

[Guest [...]]

Hi Carol,

I'm not ignoring you. My computer is doing some strange dance and I lost my post to you. For now, can you tell us what your dosing schedule is? I'll give this computer a rest and come back in a while.

Jana

[Guest [...]]

Hi Jessl,

I am sure that I wouldn't be one of your psychiatrist's favorite people. The paradoxical effects of these drugs aren't given enough consideration. Then there seems to be a specific drug that is expected to change not only your probelm but your mind.

 

When I heard a psychiatrist say that Zoloft is the drug to overcome PTSD, I saw the light and the black humor in the psychiatric way to looking at the world.

 

I think that the unintended effects of these drugs isn't being considered. Then other drugs are piled on. The result is a seriously altered brain. It isn't long before you can't tell what the drug is causing, what the drug combination is causing, and what might be there as a symptom that would fade by itself. I understand your need to keep some food down. You must be a walking skeleton by now. I'm just afraid that the cure is causing something of its own.

 

Of course I don't know you or your details. I just know that this doesn't look as though it will end right. More drugs mean more factors in the mix.  Some of those drugs are for heavy duty and short term use.

 

I can't tell you what to do, and I only have suspicions. I think that you must read about each drug and then ask yourself if these are addressing your problems safely.

 

We can't know what was causing what until we are off all drugs. I didn't know that I was being kept in a serious depression by depression drugs. No doctor would either suspect that or admit the possibility. However we are the end products. Honestly, we have to take charge of ourselves. Our doctors can advise. We must make the actual choices.

 

If you ate something that you like right now, would it just come back up? Does anything that isn't a pill stop your unwanted thoughts? Could some of these drugs be causing what they're intended to stop? Have you considered "smell the roses therapy"?

 

Since it isn't safe to just stop these drugs, beginning to limit them sounds wise. Find something nice to think about and insist on thinking about it. If you have to have obsessive thoughts, maybe nice obsessive thoughts could be forced in there. Let's keep on talking. Maybe a good idea will come of it. And, yes if you really aren't stable, holding your Valium dose is okay. Just don't increase it and make your job harder. Once benzos stop having a good effect,

they start having a bad effect. It's just hard to notice right away.

Jana