NEWBIE- DEPRESSION STORY, COULD USE SOME FEEDBACK...........

[[mo...]]

Hello everyone,

I believe now that I began suffering from degrees of depression

at the onset of puberty.

Depression would rear it's head at that wonderful time of the month..

This was exascerbated by moving to the U.S. from Istanbul/Europe,

where my Dad worked - the culture shock was too much for me.

Also, I come from a completely dysfunctional, alcholic family.

My Dad died from it in his 70's, and my only sibling, my little sister,

(46 yrs.), died 2 years ago from alcoholism.

 

I was formally diagnosed with depression in 1991, after a "nervous

breakdown", after a supremely stressful training with the Army.

Then began the roller coaster ride with anti depressants - tried most

of them, none worked, and I'd spend months tapering off.

Still, the depression was "manageable".

Then a little over 5 years ago, everything came crashing down.

There were no "situational" reasons - I am married to the Greatest.

Without him I'd be a goner.

 

I now know, that I was entering perimenopause, then menopause.

Then began various combos of ADs - again, none worked.

This is also about the time that Klonopin & Ambien were prescribed to me like candy.

I was very frugal at first, but as the years passed, I had to keep upping the dose for relief.

I became more & more hopeless, even had myself hospitalized, (72 hr. hold), to try and get help -wrong...........

 

I came across a book called "Out of the Black Hole", touting the "Vagal

Nerve Implant device", (VNS), as the "cutting edge" for curing depression.

Don't know how, but talked my HMO into implanting me with it, (they quit after me).

Tried it faithfully for 1.5 years - didn't work.

 

I was so utterly desperate at this point.

I had tried "Hormone therapy", w/ bio identical hormones -

although none of the docs knew what they we're doing - in relation to treating depression in menopausal women, but it didn't help.

 

Well meaning friends and neighbors associated w/ the med profession,

told me they had observed first hand, that ECT had done wonders for family members.

I read Kitty Dukakis's book, and how it had helped her.

My husband and I decided to take the plunge.

It was a terrible experience for us both.

Me, experiencing the fear, the consequent memory impairment and confusion - then, no relief - after 13 treatments.

For him, watching my terror, my loss of memory, holding me as I cried after each treatment, and no "cure", after going through it all.

That was 3+ years ago.

I still can't believe that I've kept working on different methods, diff. diagnoses, diff. meds, diff. therapists.

Gave up on my HMO, we pay for them, and "self pay" all the other Drs. and therapists - it's cost us a ton that we don't have.

 

All of a sudden, last November, the Klonopin quit working.

I began experiencing terrible agitation, crawling out of my skin sensations, on top of the depression.

Due to having no life for 5 years, I was a big researcher.

I had learned that benzos backfire at some point and can aggravate depression.

Now I knew that it was time to come off of them - I was taking anywhere from 3 to 6, .05 mg tabs.

I knew I couldn't keep consuming mass quantities.

It took more research, and being raised in Europe, and being disenchanted w/ the American healthcare system at this point, (I am American/army brat) - the ASHTON TAPER, sounded like the way to proceed.

 

It was a bear finding a doc who even knew about it, he's 2.5 hours away, (and Australian).

He got me going on the switchover this last December, which I completed around 3/13/2010.

I also, fairly quickly, tapered off of the the 2, 12.5 mg Ambiens.

I'm taking pharmaceutical Tryptophan and 15 mg of Remeron for sleep, and it's working - I'll have to deal with the Remeron, later.

By now, even without beginning the taper, I was in abject misery.

I am on 35 mg of Valium - dosed 3 times throughout the day.

I began the taper a few nights ago, about 7% cut - we'll see whether to do it for 1 or 2 weeks, and proceed from there.

My Dr. Is sending me the liquid formulation, to fine tune the taper.

 

I am also working with a new "holistic" M.D., who specializes in balancing the hormonal system, other bodily systems, nutrition, etc..

My Adrenals are shot, estrogen o.k., but he wants me to use a small dose of bioidentical, compounded Progesterone cream.

I've avoided Progesterone like the plague, as I know that it can make depression worse.

I don't care about getting cancer at this juncture - sad to say, I'd welcome it.

He claims that in the small dose, it will alleviate my anxiety.

But I've read a lot of negative reviews from women, and their experiences using it - so, so far I'm still waiting to determine if I'll use it or not.

 

That's my story.

My life crumbled before us, 5+ years ago.

Not one thing has helped.

I'm praying with my heart and soul, that since I'm working on hormones, thyroid, etc..., once I get off of the Valium, my depression will alleviate? ( I understand that the symptoms can keep on even after completing the taper).

Each day is terror filled for me.

I know that it will be another day like the previous.

I'm currently at an acceptable weight, but it is hard for me to make myself eat most of the time, as I'm so depressed, so tend to become underweight - the Remeron helped my appetite.

 

I'm 55 and live in a 55+ community.

There are 80 & 90 year olds playing golf, joining clubs, going to church - having lives...

I am housebound and fairly bed bound.

The despair and fear that I'll ever get better, are eating me alive.

I've read that even though it's this bad just beginning the taper, it's just going to get worse !!??

I'm so, so scared. I cry and wail all most of the time, and a lot of the time, deep into the night.

What if I finally make it through the taper, and find that I still have a depression problem that no one can solve?

On and on....

All the scariest, saddest thoughts are running constantly through my brain.

The absolute strain of almost 6 years of constant unalleviated, major, treatment resistant depression, has worn

me down to a blob, I barely feel human.

Any help?

Many thanks,

mourningperson

[[cl...]]

hey mourning person.  glad to see you on here  .  you will find a lot of support and friends on here.  i've been an active member since the Summer of 08' when my true hell began with these pills.  I got off for a about year and fell back into the trap    but what tan you do but press on.  i have suffered with severe depression and anxiety like you since I was 19/20 years old.  I am now 31 so it's been rough at times.  i to have been through the ringer with anti depressants.  going on and coming off.  my most recent was bad and still is effecting me.  i went off zoloft after a c/t klonopin withdrawal and have never truly been the same since.  I've tried remeron before.  it helped me sleep.  I'm a rare case because i have what you call "brain zaps" a neurological side effect from coming off ssri and benzo's i have never been able to truly shake them, get rid of them since i went off the zoloft in Jan of 09.  so it's been over a year. 

 

i know your frustration.  you and i have to watch the Valium because of it's side effects.  what is your taper schedule like.  how many mg's are you at now?  and what is your taper plan.  I'm glad you found a "benzo doc" in the states.  I live in MA and am having a lot of trouble finding a doc that has any clue as to what I'm talking about....so frustrating!!!  well i will see you around fell free to PM (personal message me) any time. 

 

hang in there  ,

click

[[Be...]]

Hello, mourningperson.

 

I can feel how beat-down you are after trying so many things for so long.  And I sure recognize the feeling of wishing I had half the life that even the "elderly" people I know have. (I'm pretty old myself but you know how it is: the elderly are always 10 years older than you are, no matter what your age.)

 

Anyway, I joined BenzoBuddies in order to get off benzos, ativan and seroquel so I could have ECT for depression that hadn't responded to any treatment.  When I found out benzos could cause depression, I decided to get off the benzo and ambien first and see how it went.

 

You can read a little of my history here:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=7207.msg77699#msg77699

 

I was also put on another course of Wellbutrin before I started tapering and that may have helped, but I was able to taper off 3 mg lorazepam over 6 months.  My life is almost completely different now and despite a number of good reasons to be depressed, I'm far less depressed now than I was when I started tapering.  And it doesn't necessarily get worse as you taper.  A lot of people experience fewer symptoms after they've tapered for a while and put in practice new coping skills they've learned to deal with the inevitable anxieties of life.  It was that way for me after I'd tapered for about 6 weeks and I even got "windows" of near normalcy while tapering which continued to encourage me.  I'm not an isolated story so don't despair.  Your life is waiting for you, just up ahead. 

 

 

[[st...]]

I have been tapering for a over a month and have been struggling off and on with depression. :'(  I'm also on 15mg of Remeron which I think does help with the sleep.  I like you am hoping that when I am finished with my taper the depression will also be a thing of the past.   I wish I had more encouraging words to say but all I came manage right now is for you to know that I am suffering with you.

[[an...]]

Mourningperson:

 

I so feel your pain!  As I've said to a great many people, I wouldn't even wish this on my enemies (but maybe a few of the ignorant doctors I've seen!).

 

I have been through the wringer myself with so many psych meds, none of them working, and I'm this way as a result of being on, then off, then on another, then off.....  you get the picture.  I was in protracted w/d from Depakote once I began my taper of Klonopin.  I cry just about every day, asking the people closest to me if they think I'll ever get better.  Their response is a resounding YES, just like the people in this forum, but it does not seem real or possible to me while being in the middle of this ungodly darkness.  I've been going through this for a little over 3 years.  I'm so sorry you've been suffering for these 5+ years.  I have had the experience with the bio-identical hormones, too, and they didn't work.  Nothing has worked - been to alternative docs and tried the supplement path a few years ago, all to no avail and making me even worse. 

 

I wish there was something I could say, some ray of hope to give you, but just know that there are others suffering right along with you and who are hoping for the best for you and for ourselves and everyone else.  Some way, some how, keep the hope alive that one day, you will heal and be stronger and better than ever.

 

Jan

[[an...]]

Mourningperson:

 

Just wondering how you're doing.  You haven't been to this blog for a bit and I was concerned.  I don't get to all the blogs I want to as I have to do this from my work PC, but I've been thinking about you. 

 

Jan

[[mo...]]

Dear Jan,

thanks for your concern..

I have been having a terrible time of it, and have cried out so much, for some relief.

I had been yelling at my poor husband, as I had been feeling that he had no concept of what I was going through.

When the anger and rage comes, it's the only time I feel any strength surge in me.

I know that it's negative energy, and that he has been through so much with me.

I also know that anger and rage are part of the tapering process.

Luckily, we have talked this through, and reaffirmed our love for each other.

I feel that I'll never be able to be happy again, as I've been so sad for so many years.

My husband believes differently..

The hopelessness and despair are the predominant issues that assail me.

I just pray all the time, it's all I can do.

I just began my third cut, and am at around 22 mg of Valium now - I started at 35 mg.

Yesterday, for a bit, I felt a tiny bit "better", but don't know if it's an anomaly, or not.

I hope you're feeling better, and thanks again for caring.

Love,

mp

 

[[Be...]]

I also know the pain of long-standing depression, mp.    By it's very nature, you can't imagine being happy again.  But while you may not be able to picture it, you can take it on good authority that benzos in general and valium in particular are well known to cause depression.  I truly believe that you will begin to feel your mood lift off and on as you continue to reduce the drug in your system and that a year from now you will much, much happier. 

[[mo...]]

Thanks so much Beeper, for your feedback.

I did not know that Valium, in particular, can cause worsening of depression.

That information alone is depressing!

If I had been informed on that fact, I wouldn't have gone through all the trouble of switching from Klonopin to Valium, to do the Ashton taper.

The very, very last thing I needed, was a drug to worsen my depression.

All my research pointed to it as being a good and sensible protocol.

It's suggested on Benzo Buddies as a tapering method also.

If this is true, I would have not spent all those months making the swithover, and would have just made cuts slowly, in my Klonopin.

Well, it's too late now, but I appreciate your insight and offer of hope for the future.

Love,

mp

[[Re...]]

Hey mourningperson,

 

    My heart truly goes out to you.  I myself have only experienced depression bought on my klono; thank God that it was short-lived.  Just that brief period that I experienced was horrendous enough. I believe such as your husband and Beeper that the things will get better by and by.  Please hold on.

 

    I see by your signature line that you are perimenopausal.  So am I.  When I started tapering klono last year, I wasn't sure if the benzo was causing so many intense symptoms in my body, if the perimenopause was or if I had a combination of both.  Because of my breast cancer history, I am not able to use any type of prescription medication, OTC or herbal product.  Although, for about 6 months I did use an herbal product which brought me no relief so I discontinued it.  However, I found that the lower I got in my taper, and now since I am 8 months benzo free that the symptoms that I assumed were related to hormonal changes were actually benzo in nature because they have either decreased in intensity or have gone altogether.  That is not to say that I do not experience any hormonal changes, but they are very, very mild that they are hardly noticeable.

 

    Might I suggest a book that I found brought me great insight and relief on addressing female hormones, whether you are in the menses stage, the perimenopause stage, or the menopausal stage, Dr. Bob DeMaria's "Drugless Guide to Balancing Female Hormones."  I purchased this book on last year, and I found that incorporating a lot of non-medicial practices into my lifestyle from the book, has greatly helped me on my perimenopausal journey.  It is a great book!  Although I've always eaten healthy and exercised, I made a lot of nutritional changes that have made this hormonal stage in my life much more of a joy than a detriment.  If you are interested, the book can be purchased on amazon.com for about $15.00, and Dr. Bob has excerpts from his television show on yutube. 

 

    I pray that your depression passes soon, and I believe that once the benzos are completely out of your system, the depression will lift as quickly as it came. You are in my prayers, stay the course.

[[an...]]

Hi mp:

 

You said pray is about all you can do these days.  That's a very BIG something and quite a lot to do.  You will persevere, and prayer will be your armor.

 

I feel like you do, that I will never get any better, but I have people in my life, just like your husband, who tell me differently and fully believe I will heal and get better.  Hold onto the hope he has for you and believe it.  It's a horrible, scary journey, but we will be better people for having gone through this, and there are probably people who will come into our lives who need us to hold their hand while they go through the same thing.  We will be able to be more comfort than we could ever imagine because we lived it!

 

 

Jan

[[ma...]]

Dear New Person

 

What can I say,  I have been reading your blog.  You may be far away but you can be next door with your blog access.  If you already had depression than you might want to tell your doc.  If you did not see if getting of the K helps the depression.

 

My hands are shaky and so I keep hitting th wrong keys - :mybuddy:will time a break from typing.

 

talk to you soon

[[vi...]]

oh my i read your story and i am touched so much. i also suffer severe depression now for 3 yrs. i cant take anti - depressants.

i like you am homebound and bed bound watching even my parents at 75 have more energy then me daily

ect were also suggested to me i said no way in he##. I am recovery room rn and we did ects in my unit. i watched pts have treatments. i saw the memory loss ......... i saw patients come back for more and more treatments. i thought to myself so many were not getting better. i saw big time memory loss

 

I also think so much of my anxiety / depression is menopause as well i can see monthly pattern.

getting md to help me with benzo w/d or menopause is not happening for me no mds in this town qualified

 

i do think a very positive thing for you is that you have an md who uses ashton method that is a blessing for you

 

i wish you the best . i will be back to follow your progress= we have a lot in common my friend with the depression. vicky

[[jo...]]

mourningperson

 

Your story is so heartbreaking.

You have had a tough life, of bereavement and addiction, but you are still here to tell the tale.

 

I am glad you have a great husband, and also a good doctor.

 

The ashton manual is nearly 30yrs old now, and people have learnt more about benzos and tapers since it was published. For instance, many people taper slower than the aston taper. Many people taper between 5% and 10% every 2-3 weeks, and listen to their bodies.

 

My psychiatrist suggested tryptophan for my depression, but I read on other forums that many benzo recoverers found this substance made things worse in withdrawal.

 

I hope your taper is going well.

It is good that your doctor is giving you the liquid to fine tune the taper, my doctor wont give me the liquid as she says it is too open to abuse.

 

I don't know much about progesterone and menopause, as I am only 43, but I guess I have that to come.

I don't care about getting cancer at this juncture - sad to say, I'd welcome it.

I find this sentence heartbreaking, but, I also identify with it. I am not suicidal, but I do have a death wish, I just see it as a means of escape. Having said that it is best that niether of us get cancer.

 

As well as people who suffer symptoms after the taper, there are also people who feel better the further down the taper they go, just look at Beepers post above.

 

If you are like me, you are maybe suffering from a lot of anticipatory anxiety, and maybe this is contributing towards the depression.

Anticipatory anxiety about how you are going to feel. This is where its important to take one day at a time. Do not fear or expect the worse, and if you can, when these fears of the worst come up, try and remind yourself its the benzos.

 

Is there a way you can deal with your housebound situation, by gently pushing yourself to go a little further afield every day, in baby steps. Dont worry if you dont manage, its the trying that matters.

I understand your despair, as I have felt such black despair myself about never getting better.

I cry a lot too. I also engage in "what-if's", engaging in "what-if's" is common in benzo withdrawal, but if we can catch it, and just label it as a what-if that may help us.

 

I send my love with this post.

[[Li...]]

Hello, I just wanted to tell you about my experience with Valium. I did a cross-over from Bromazepam to Valium because I read that it was easier to make short tapers. But I had horrible experience with Valium and had to go back. I actually BECAME depressed and all I did was cry for days and eat nothing.

 

You have tapered quite a bit and I wish you much success with further reductions. Hopefully your health condition will better soon.

 

hugs, Lizzie

[[Mi...]]

Well I have felt so discouraged also ebcause it deos seem nothing works.  So I've pretty much come to the conclusion that no med is going to work.  Only thing I know to try to do sis trengthen my faith in God and just keep reading things to try changing ym thinking and hope it sinks in enough to eventually stop most of my probs.

 

So I don't know what to suggest other than just keep believing you can get out of it somehow.  I usually believe I will some time stop having anxiety and depression, but it's sure taking forever.  I feel so amazing at times, but I wish it would last longer.

 

It just seems like no med is remotely close to a cure.  I personally don't believe in meds for ANYTHING anymore.  ALL of thems eem to have bad effects and none totally solve any problem whatsoever (not just for these issues, but ANY issue in life, it seems).  So the only hope is to somehow change thinking and how one responds to things.  But of course a lot of times I am so down that I feel liek I "can't" get out of it by thinking.  Sigh.  But hopefully you figure something out or some miracle cure comes along finally.