Please help me- micro taper?

[[...]]

I really have no idea which is more likely.  But the timing of events is very suspicious to say the least.  You increased Prozac and a week later you have increased anxiety.

[[tr...]]

Hi Brittany,

 

These SSRI's can be "activating" for many who take them. They can work well for people who are sluggish and depressed because they can give you a lift, but if you are already anxious they can be disastrous. Both Prozac and Lexipro gave me the symptoms you describe. I have tried several over the years and I would have to say those two were the worst for me.

 

tryin'

[[Br...]]

Thank You Tryhard,

Hope you are doing ok right now.

 

I am getting ready to begin my FOURTH attempt of getting off

of this garbage. (hopefully with help from SG and any others

familiar with the liquid micro taper) It looks that this is what

you're doing? How is it going? I think this might be the only

way I'll be able to get free of this!

 

Wishing you well!!

Sue

[[Br...]]

Hi, SG

I am ready to start to just "switch over" to liquid (the whole milk)

for now to see how I feel.

 

In order for me to feel confident in this, will you help me with exact

steps.

 

I have the 1mg pills of clonazepam. With the 1ml and 10ml syringes,

two sealed containers....do I start by dissolving the 1mg k in the 100mls

of whole milk (overnight?). Stir or shake and the divide into the two

containers by "eyeballing" it, or actually drawing out 50mls of the milk?

 

Thanks! Can't wait to get started EVERY SO SLOWLY. I'm scared. This is

my fourth attempt and I need to be free of this crap!! My mind is confused

and I'll never be well until completely off. (sorry, you already know this)

Thanks again,

Sue

[[...]]

Hi Sue,

 

You'll do fine.  Take it one step at a time and convince yourself that nothing bad is going to happen with each step.

 

Yes, you've got it.  Drop a 1mg K pill into an empty jar and squirt in 100ml whole milk.  Cover and let sit (overnight is good), agitating/mixing every so often.

 

Next morning, mix and split in two by drawing off 50ml for a two-day supply.  Then take each 50ml and split evenly by eyeballing into your doses for the day.

 

Be sure to rinse and drink the rinse and capture any and all milk on mixing spoons, etc. so you are sure to get the entire dose.

 

You've got this.

[[Br...]]

Thanks! You guys are great hanging around to help.

Seriously! It's giving me alittle HOPE (ok, a lot) that

I actually might make it this time.

 

After 24 years on this poison, I still can't believe how

potent and poisonous it is. Such a shame for all those

struggling. But, thanks again so much for your help.

Sue

[[Br...]]

Hi, SG

I have the syringes and two containers I need to get

started but I think I'm going to wait another week or so

because I don't feel stable enough yet as far as the

depression and think it might be better to feel alittle bit

better as far as that goes before I get started.

 

I've been alittle more "symptomatic" the past couple of

days (have a lot of stressors in my life right now) and,

for that reason too, I'm giving it another week. Think

that sounds good?

 

I'm just so anxious to get off of this because I know that i'll

never totally be well until off and healing!

 

 

[[...]]

Sure, trust your judgement.  More time is a good thing.  So you are on liquid, but not cutting?

[[Br...]]

I have what I need to get started but no not on the liquid yet.

I think I figured out some of why I was more symptomatic though.

 

I had stomach bug or something last week and started on a really

good supplement called Fire Cider. (unfortunately, not good for me

right now, later when I'm healed.) It actually had a detoxifying

effect and I think was actually depleting everything in my system

including the k.

 

So...long story, short...I'm regrouping since that and going to give

it another week. Gotta stop being fearful too. This is my fourth attempt

and I'm so afraid of becoming too (mainly mentally) symptomatic. BUT

I do have hope with the SLOW liquid taper (and your help) that I can

do it this time.

 

Will let you know a few days after starting the milk liquid how I'm doing

okay. Thanks again for being there!!!

Sue

[[...]]

I've seen before that liver detoxes seem to upset the taper, but I have no idea how they work and what they do.  When you begin, take it slow and ease into it.  It will go fine.

[[Br...]]

Hi, SG

It's only been a couple of days. Sorry but I don' tthink I'm going

to like doing the milk titration, especially if it's going to be for

possibly almost a year or so.

 

Have you helped anyone with the math, etc, as far as cutting the pills?

I do have a Gemini scale from a while ago and was thinking of shaving

the K pill down. I can get 0.5mg pills from my doctor which is the

daily dose that I am on right now.

Thanks,

Sue

[[sh...]]

Hi, SG

It's only been a couple of days. Sorry but I don' tthink I'm going

to like doing the milk titration, especially if it's going to be for

possibly almost a year or so.

 

Have you helped anyone with the math, etc, as far as cutting the pills?

I do have a Gemini scale from a while ago and was thinking of shaving

the K pill down. I can get 0.5mg pills from my doctor which is the

daily dose that I am on right now.

Thanks,

Sue

 

There is a good post on pill cutting on the Micro Taper thread.  Let me try and find it

[[...]]

What's going on with the milk?

 

The thing with the scale is the smallest cut you can make is about .003mg K so a true daily taper is not possible.  You'd have to cut like two out of three days or every other day or every third day.  It really is a not as easy on you as liquids would be.

 

But it's up to you.  I know the pill math well and can help you.  It is easy once you spend a little time with it.

[[sh...]]

Here is the post i was talking about.  this was done for someone else on .5mg K.

 

Just a Dad - I had same issue as you did with liquid so now I am using a gram scale.  I suggest you come on by the Klonopin support group where many of us are micro tapering.

 

To start - buy gram scale on Amazon - best one you can afford.  I don't know if you dose 2 x's a day or one and that will make a difference in your weight but not how you much you cut.  You need to weigh 10 of your . 5mg pills divide by 10 to get your pill weight - most of us range between .170 to .173 but you will have your number. This is your base weight.

 

To start most of us cut .001 from our dose - so if you dose once per day that would be  for example  .172 start weight and drop to .171 next day etc.  then hold on day 4 and drop again and hold on day 4. If this is fine you can lessen your 4 day holds to hold every 7 days or if this is too fast then you can speed it up.  I would wait at least 2 weeks before you go any faster to see how you do. 

 

If you dose  2 x's per day you divide your pill weight in 1/2 so .172/2 =.086 for each pill by weight.  So your first cut is whichever dose you wish to start with either AM or PM

 

AM:  .086  PM  .085

AM  .085  PM  .085

until day 4 and then again you will hold. 

 

Again you can go slower - for example cut every other day if you wish to start and see how you do - and then you can speed it up.  Just listen to your own body.

 

To figure out how much klonopin you are on you take your total pill weight - for example .085 + .085 divide by your pill weight/.172 and multiply by .5

 

So:

 

.085 +.085 = .170/.172= .988 x .5 = .494

 

I hope this helps.  But again come to the Klonopin support board and Bennie and Clona will check my math.  I do stress that you will not be s/x free it just makes it more bearable but there are still good days and bad but not what I call the 'shock and awe' of a cut and hold. 

 

Some weeks I go w/o any holds and others like this week I slowed down and I am cutting every other day -that is the beauty of this you can still cut or hold depending on how you feel on that particular day.  I have  4 week pill holders and just move my pills down a day or two and then cut some other pills if I need to hold.

[[Br...]]

Thank you both so much!

 

SG-I'm not sure why I don't think I'll be able to continue that long with it.

I'm having ALOT of benzo rage but had some a couple of weeks ago before

starting the milk taper so....

 

A lot of situational stressors right now, a lot of anger about some things of

the past in my marriage that have happened, but "regular" anger with benzo

rage on top of it is making me almost suicidal.

 

I HAVE TO get off this drug so I know how much is "normal" anger that I can

work on and how much is from the drug. Please...did you experience the benzo

rage?

 

I'm in a "hurry" to get well and there's no hurrying this process. Any other liquid

form that might be more "doable" for me?

 

Sharkey-Thanks! I have a scale but....I'm so confused as I told SG on which way

to go about this. It's my fourth and final attempt.

[[...]]

No, no benzo rage here.  If anything the opposite is true for me.  More docile and calm.

 

There are several other ways to make liquid K, but I don't know if they would be any different.  It might be a good idea to give the milk dosing a while longer to see if you adjust.  But, it is up to you.  I can assist either way.

[[Br...]]

What other type of liquid do you think might be better?

I think the thickness of the whole milk didn't help any.

 

I'm going to have to calm down alittle too because I'm

freaking myself out. This is the fourth time and I guess

the fear is getting to me, plus alot of emotional family

issues aren't helping any.

 

I'm "in a hurry" to get well to see if my marriage will be

able to be saved outside of benzo wd and I know there

is no hurrying this process.

 

Thanks! Will wait to hear from you. Need to start this

process so I can gain some confidence about it and know

that I'm on my way to being free. Hope this all makes sense,

feeling pretty distraught right now.  

 

[[...]]

You have choices.  If you are in the US I don't think there is a prescription liquid K so that is not an option, but here are some other ways to do it...

 

- whole milk

- alcohol/water

- propylene glycol/water

- Ora Plus suspension

- compounded by pharmacy

 

The alcohol/water and PG/water methods seem to work well.  There are several people on the MT thread that are using them.

[[Br...]]

Hi, SG

I think the issues I have going on is adding stress to my

tapering but I need to get started. I think the benzos are

alot of the cause for my depression also.

 

I did a compound pharmacy in one of my other attempts.

But it was an oil based liquid. (maybe that's the only way

they do it?) I don't know but it didn't go too well, and is

more expensive I think. Also am alittle paranoid about

all of this now after trying 3 times and don't trust the

pharmacy will use the right amounts, etc. That might sound

stupid but....

 

I did speak to one pharmacist in the Philadelphia area

and he said they use "gummies." Are you familiar with that?

 

How can I do the alcohol/water? I had been thinking of that

actually after reading some who used vodka I think? Was

surprised you could use alcohol at all with gaba receptors, etc.

 

Are you okay helping me? I don't want to have to go to the

micro taper thread if I don't have to, am too confused and

not good with the computer right now. Sorry, long winded!!!  

[[...]]

Sure, we can work through it and get you going.  I would not trust a compounding pharmacy either unless I had to.  I'd rather have control and this can all be done at home.

 

Alcohol/water and PG/water use just a very small amount as solvents to dissolve the K, then a lot of water is added to get to 100ml (or more).

[[Br...]]

Glad to hear you don't trust the pharmacy as far as that either

and want to have the control.

 

I have control issues so thought it was just me!!

Guess we can all become unable to trust, etc. when we realize

a drug is FDA approved that causes such pain in people's lives.

 

Do you want to help me start on the 1mg pills of k that I have?

Or wait until the 0.5mg pills? The doctor has my next script written

for 0.5mg pills since that is the amount I'm taking. Can't fill that

for about another two weeks.

Thanks so much,

Sue 

[[...]]

I think it is fine to use the 1mg pills.  Just look at it as making two days worth at a time.

 

You chose alcohol, right?  What type and proof do you have?  I like to see 150 proof (75%), but as low as 80 proof (40%) seems to work.

[[Br...]]

Whatever you think is best. I don't really drink so

I'll have to pick up whatever is needed. Just let me

know ok.....thanks!

 

Did you suffer the depression from benzos? Were you

on any other medications when you tapered? Sorry, I

could've maybe searched your history but didn't, wanted

to get back to you tonight so hopefully I can get started

tomorrow night again.

 

I'm discouraged because since the anxiety from the prozac

(which had been helping the depression) the doctor added

lamictal which calmed me down. I can't take more panic

attacks. Anyway, I'm calling her on Monday because I'm

having too many aches, etc. from the lamictal. That's why

I hate these drugs and can't wait to be drug free.

Thanks SG!

[[...]]

150 proof grain alcohol or vodka should do the trick.  There is a product in the stores where I live called Everclear 151 grain alcohol.  It is 151 proof.  Maybe you have it too?

 

I never had depression as a symptom, or anxiety either.  My worst symptoms were flat flat emotions, cognitive stuff, dp, and poor sleep.  I tapered lexapro before my K taper.  It sounds like you are on the psych drug merry-go-round.  Watch out for those other drugs.  Both prozac and lamictal have the potential to be every bit as bad as benzos.

[[Br...]]

Hi!!

My brother picked up 100 proof vodka for me. He's been trying

to help.

 

Will this be okay do you think to get started on?

 

What do I do? Drop 1mg pill in 2-3mls of vodka, let disolve

and then add the rest water?

 

Thank you for your help. I think I'm ready to get started. Still somewhat

symptomatic but I want off and don't want to try and go up anymore.

I think I'm stable enough as I'm going to be to get started again.

(just scared) ?