Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ga...]]

 

Anne,

The chemist I work with is a compounder, able to purchase bulk raw chemicals from specific vendors. I am told that as of last year, all but 1 of his vendors carry bulk alprazolam. The one that carries it has increased his prices substantially. My compounder has shared with me his purchasing options and prices.

Thank you for your thoughts on the above questions. If/when my Pdoc agrees with using a liquid, I will ask to have the batch tested for stability & potency.

Thank you.

Marija

 

It sure is interesting how different doctors are. My first psych nurse was happy to give me the intensol. The next psych refused, so I switched to my current psychiatrist. Recently I asked my him if I could dilute my intensol with water and he said, "Sure," without hesitating.

[[Sh...]]

Hi MT Team,

 

I am having more anxiety now after 16 days of full dose liquid

 

I want to make sure how I am preparing it is not causing problems.  I dissolve 2- .5mg of K in 2.5ml of 80 proof vodka in my 100ml graduated cylinder.  I add 97.5ml of lukewarm water.  I then pour this into the 100ml jar I got on Amazon.  I pour from the graduated cylinder to jar several times to make sure it is mixed well. I then put the lid on tightly and it sits overnight in my bathroom.  The jar is clear. Does light affect potency?  I take half the dose in the morning and the rest at night.  I start getting anxious within 8 hours of taking a dose. I hold off until 12 hours to try and make sure doses are taken every 12 hours.  I used to take the entire 1mg at night before I had the issue with the supplement in May triggering what seemed like WDs.  I started taking one pill in the am and the other at night and pretty much stabilized.  I am not sure how I would taper other than with liquid. Am I doing anything that would impact the potency?

 

Thanks for your response.

Shaani

[[ga...]]

Hi MT Team,

 

I am having more anxiety now after 16 days of full dose liquid

 

I want to make sure how I am preparing it is not causing problems.  I dissolve 2- .5mg of K in 2.5ml of 80 proof vodka in my 100ml graduated cylinder.  I add 97.5ml of lukewarm water.  I then pour this into the 100ml jar I got on Amazon.  I pour from the graduated cylinder to jar several times to make sure it is mixed well. I then put the lid on tightly and it sits overnight in my bathroom.  The jar is clear. Does light affect potency?  I take half the dose in the morning and the rest at night.  I start getting anxious within 8 hours of taking a dose. I hold off until 12 hours to try and make sure doses are taken every 12 hours.  I used to take the entire 1mg at night before I had the issue with the supplement in May triggering what seemed like WDs.  I started taking one pill in the am and the other at night and pretty much stabilized.  I am not sure how I would taper other than with liquid. Am I doing anything that would impact the potency?

 

Thanks for your response.

Shaani

 

Sorry, I'm not sure about the vodka and water ratios.

 

I do know my intensol says to store in a dark place at 59-86 degrees F, so I bought amber jars.

 

Also, some people have said they felt the liquid hit them faster. I started with a liquid, so I can't compare.

 

There have been people who have given up on liquid titration (I don't remember why) and gone to dry cutting with a jeweler's scale. I dry cut my trazodone taper, but I thought it was a real nuisance. Do you have tablets or capsules? I had trazodone tablets.

 

I'm sure others will chime in and you will sort this out! Hang in there!

[[an...]]

Hi MT Team,

 

I am having more anxiety now after 16 days of full dose liquid

 

I want to make sure how I am preparing it is not causing problems.  I dissolve 2- .5mg of K in 2.5ml of 80 proof vodka in my 100ml graduated cylinder.  I add 97.5ml of lukewarm water.  I then pour this into the 100ml jar I got on Amazon.  I pour from the graduated cylinder to jar several times to make sure it is mixed well. I then put the lid on tightly and it sits overnight in my bathroom.  The jar is clear. Does light affect potency?  I take half the dose in the morning and the rest at night.  I start getting anxious within 8 hours of taking a dose. I hold off until 12 hours to try and make sure doses are taken every 12 hours.  I used to take the entire 1mg at night before I had the issue with the supplement in May triggering what seemed like WDs.  I started taking one pill in the am and the other at night and pretty much stabilized.  I am not sure how I would taper other than with liquid. Am I doing anything that would impact the potency?

 

Thanks for your response.

Shaani

 

Shaani,

 

I would use 4 to 5 mL of 80 proof vodka for the two pills. Place the pills into a jar (not the cylinder).  Add the 4 mL vodka to the pill.  Once dissolved, add 96 mL of water.  Use the graduated cylinder to measure the water. Shake well before measuring your 50 mL dose.  Use the graduated cylinder to measure out the 50 mL.  Then drink.  Add some water to cylinder (or whatever container you drink from) and drink the rinse water. The graduated cylinder is used only for measuring--not for mixing. Potency should not decrease.  If you are worried, you can wrap a bit of foil around the jar that you prepare your liquid in.

[[an...]]

 

Hi Marija,

 

Many drugs are still stable years after the expiration date. The expiration date is the last date that the drug manufacturer will guarantee full potency of the drug.  Full potency can be down to 90% of the original.  The potency will also depend on how the drug is stored. Light, fluctuations in temperature, moisture can cause a drug to lose potency more quickly.

 

I read your other post from today, and I do not understand why it would cost you more money for the pharmacy to order in more of the drug to replace the expired drug.  A pharmacy should not be dispensing expired drugs.  At the same time, I have taken lorazepam well after its expiration date (a couple of years in one case) and had no problems.  It just depends on the drug.  I know that nitroglycerin decomposes very quickly and should never be used after the expiration date.  My father, who has a heart condition, found that out the hard way.

 

As far as the worry of precipitation of the drug if water is added, that is possibility.  From what I have read, the directions say that the intensol can be mixed with water and other liquids like juices. I would think the intensol can be diluted to a certain extent (there is probably a limit as to how much water can be added) without having to worry about precipitation of the active ingredient.  Again, precipitation is possible and is dependent on many factors.  Temperature is a big one.  Does the intensol need to be refrigerated? 

 

Your pharmacist says he has observed precipitation with the intensol when mixed with water? Cloudiness does indicate that something is precipitating out of solution.

 

Anne, The intensol must be kept at room temperature 59-86 degrees F. The directions say it can be mixed and then must be consumed immediately. The drug company would not deviate from that. Is the pharmacist correct that propylene glycol would be a better diluter than water? If my dilution is clear does that mean it has not precipitated? Thanks.

 

Thanks Gardner.  So, temperature should not be a problem. Propylene glycol is used in the intensol as a solvent, so yes it is a possibility.  If you see now particles and your solution is not cloudy, the drug has not precipitated out of solution.

 

Anne

 

I meant to say that if you see no particles (not now particles) and there is no cloudiness, there should be no problem with precipitation.  I would also shake the liquid before removing doses. Just a precaution. I know the company says to take the dose right away when mixed with water, but I would assume it is safe up to about a week. I am a bit confused, because I do not know about the solubility of Xanax. I assumed it was soluble in the propylene glycol, but Marija's pharmacist said it is a suspension?  This would mean that is not dissolved and just suspended in the mixture.  Sorry, but I am not familiar with the intensol. Maybe SG or someone else can chime in here.

 

I knew that! Those auto-corrects are awful!

 

Is Marija's pharmacist talking about a Valium intensol? I have to double check that. EDIT: ATIVAN  By the way, the alprazolam intensol is NOT a suspension. The box says solution. The Xanax is in solution.

 

What I can't understand is why adding more water would make it precipitate? Is this something a layperson could understand?

 

If it is labeled as a solution, the Xanax is dissolved in the propylene glycol solvent.  After you add water and if your solution is clear, no particles or cloudiness, then it is safe to say the Xanax stays in solution and does not precipitate out.  You are doing a good job with the solution, and I see no reason why you should not use water. I also like that you take precautions by adding water to the container after drinking your dose.  Also, the amber jars are a great idea.

[[Sh...]]

Hi MT Team,

 

I am having more anxiety now after 16 days of full dose liquid

 

I want to make sure how I am preparing it is not causing problems.  I dissolve 2- .5mg of K in 2.5ml of 80 proof vodka in my 100ml graduated cylinder.  I add 97.5ml of lukewarm water.  I then pour this into the 100ml jar I got on Amazon.  I pour from the graduated cylinder to jar several times to make sure it is mixed well. I then put the lid on tightly and it sits overnight in my bathroom.  The jar is clear. Does light affect potency?  I take half the dose in the morning and the rest at night.  I start getting anxious within 8 hours of taking a dose. I hold off until 12 hours to try and make sure doses are taken every 12 hours.  I used to take the entire 1mg at night before I had the issue with the supplement in May triggering what seemed like WDs.  I started taking one pill in the am and the other at night and pretty much stabilized.  I am not sure how I would taper other than with liquid. Am I doing anything that would impact the potency?

 

Thanks for your response.

Shaani

 

Shaani,

 

I would use 4 to 5 mL of 80 proof vodka for the two pills. Place the pills into a jar (not the cylinder).  Add the 4 mL vodka to the pill.  Once dissolved, add 96 mL of water.  Use the graduated cylinder to measure the water. Shake well before measuring your 50 mL dose.  Use the graduated cylinder to measure out the 50 mL.  Then drink.  Add some water to cylinder (or whatever container you drink from) and drink the rinse water. The graduated cylinder is used only for measuring--not for mixing. Potency should not decrease.  If you are worried, you can wrap a bit of foil around the jar that you prepare your liquid in.

 

Thank you Anne. This makes sense.  I did not think to do it this way. 

 

Shaani

[[an...]]

1)  O.K., I know Sharkey answered this for me once before, but my brain is on a permanent vacation with no intention of returning.  Anyway, he told me that he often put his pill in 2ml of vodka and let it sit overnight. I've done that twice now. One time, I had no problems...I've fixed my dose and off I went. I did it another time (since I'm traveling some and have to take my dose with me...have dose, will travel  ), and when I went into the kitchen the next morning, the little cup I've used since starting all of this, was empty. Everything had evaporated. Really weird. Any thoughts?

 

2)  That's one thing. Here's the other: If I only need to put one or two mL's in a jar and take with me, is it really O.K. to put that tiny little amount in the jar and THEN add some water before putting the top on? Am I messing with the solubility or anything by doing this? I ask because if you put a milliliter of the prepared dose in a small jar...that's just not much stuff in there! How do you drink THAT?? Is it O.K. for me to put the 1mL dose in the jar, add a little water, and then cap the jar and take off (and drink my dose later in the day as needed)? How does ANYBODY deal with such a tiny dose when you have to take it with you for later use? It's not realistic to put 1mL of the solution/dose in a small jar and actually "drink" it later. How do you do it?

 

I'll be in Savannah all day tomorrow knocking on doors and doing what I can to find someone to write scripts for me. I look forward to seeing your answers to the above when I get home tomorrow night.

 

Thanks, gang!

 

Jeff

 

Jeff,

 

You need to cover the jar.  As Gardner said the alcohol will evaporate quickly.

 

Yes, you need to add water.  As of now (actually by Wednesday) I will be down to 0.5 mg/day lorazepam divided into three doses.  If I was using vodka, I would dissolve the 0.5 mg in 2 mL of vodka. I would then add 98 mL of water.  Shake well. Then divide into three equal doses. I carry my doses in small jars in my purse. 

 

I hope you find someone to prescribe very soon. Good luck!!

 

Anne

[[an...]]

Buddies,

Just spoke with my Pdoc and chemist.

Pdoc is not ready to script Intensol but would consider it if the chemist will confirm the details of dilution.

The chemist is concerned about the precipitation of diluting the Intensol with water. He is suggesting using almond oil or glycol to prevent the water precipitation leading to inaccurate alprazolam dosing.

For now, I am restricted to moving forward with MT capsules. He will reduce from .642 to .63.

I posted earlier, but no response, on my concern that the alprazolam raw material expired in 11/2014. The chemist feels, in his experience, that it is still stable.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Marija

Hi Marija,

 

Many drugs are still stable years after the expiration date. The expiration date is the last date that the drug manufacturer will guarantee full potency of the drug.  Full potency can be down to 90% of the original.  The potency will also depend on how the drug is stored. Light, fluctuations in temperature, moisture can cause a drug to lose potency more quickly.

 

I read your other post from today, and I do not understand why it would cost you more money for the pharmacy to order in more of the drug to replace the expired drug.  A pharmacy should not be dispensing expired drugs.  At the same time, I have taken lorazepam well after its expiration date (a couple of years in one case) and had no problems.  It just depends on the drug.  I know that nitroglycerin decomposes very quickly and should never be used after the expiration date.  My father, who has a heart condition, found that out the hard way.

 

As far as the worry of precipitation of the drug if water is added, that is possibility.  From what I have read, the directions say that the intensol can be mixed with water and other liquids like juices. I would think the intensol can be diluted to a certain extent (there is probably a limit as to how much water can be added) without having to worry about precipitation of the active ingredient.  Again, precipitation is possible and is dependent on many factors.  Temperature is a big one.  Does the intensol need to be refrigerated? 

 

Your pharmacist says he has observed precipitation with the intensol when mixed with water? Cloudiness does indicate that something is precipitating out of solution.

 

Anne, The intensol must be kept at room temperature 59-86 degrees F. The directions say it can be mixed and then must be consumed immediately. The drug company would not deviate from that. Is the pharmacist correct that propylene glycol would be a better diluter than water? If my dilution is clear does that mean it has not precipitated? Thanks.

 

Thanks Gardner.  So, temperature should not be a problem. Propylene glycol is used in the intensol as a solvent, so yes it is a possibility.  If you see now particles and your solution is not cloudy, the drug has not precipitated out of solution.

 

Anne

 

Would you say that propylene glycol would be a better safe than sorry option?

So far I have not felt any worse or any better since I have been diluting.

Can you understand why the Valium Ativan would be precipitating and the Xanax not?

Or might it be that people are refrigerating it or something?

This is mysterious.

 

Anne,

The chemist I work with is a compounder, able to purchase bulk raw chemicals from specific vendors. I am told that as of last year, all but 1 of his vendors carry bulk alprazolam. The one that carries it has increased his prices substantially. My compounder has shared with me his purchasing options and prices.

Thank you for your thoughts on the above questions. If/when my Pdoc agrees with using a liquid, I will ask to have the batch tested for stability & potency.

Thank you.

Marija

Marija,

 

You are lucky to have access to a chemist with compounding experience.  Now I understand your statement about the cost.  Thank you for explaining this to me.

 

Have a good evening,

Anne

[Guest [Ma...]]

 

Hi Marija,

 

Many drugs are still stable years after the expiration date. The expiration date is the last date that the drug manufacturer will guarantee full potency of the drug.  Full potency can be down to 90% of the original.  The potency will also depend on how the drug is stored. Light, fluctuations in temperature, moisture can cause a drug to lose potency more quickly.

 

I read your other post from today, and I do not understand why it would cost you more money for the pharmacy to order in more of the drug to replace the expired drug.  A pharmacy should not be dispensing expired drugs.  At the same time, I have taken lorazepam well after its expiration date (a couple of years in one case) and had no problems.  It just depends on the drug.  I know that nitroglycerin decomposes very quickly and should never be used after the expiration date.  My father, who has a heart condition, found that out the hard way.

 

As far as the worry of precipitation of the drug if water is added, that is possibility.  From what I have read, the directions say that the intensol can be mixed with water and other liquids like juices. I would think the intensol can be diluted to a certain extent (there is probably a limit as to how much water can be added) without having to worry about precipitation of the active ingredient.  Again, precipitation is possible and is dependent on many factors.  Temperature is a big one.  Does the intensol need to be refrigerated? 

 

Your pharmacist says he has observed precipitation with the intensol when mixed with water? Cloudiness does indicate that something is precipitating out of solution.

 

Anne, The intensol must be kept at room temperature 59-86 degrees F. The directions say it can be mixed and then must be consumed immediately. The drug company would not deviate from that. Is the pharmacist correct that propylene glycol would be a better diluter than water? If my dilution is clear does that mean it has not precipitated? Thanks.

 

Thanks Gardner.  So, temperature should not be a problem. Propylene glycol is used in the intensol as a solvent, so yes it is a possibility.  If you see now particles and your solution is not cloudy, the drug has not precipitated out of solution.

 

Anne

 

I meant to say that if you see no particles (not now particles) and there is no cloudiness, there should be no problem with precipitation.  I would also shake the liquid before removing doses. Just a precaution. I know the company says to take the dose right away when mixed with water, but I would assume it is safe up to about a week. I am a bit confused, because I do not know about the solubility of Xanax. I assumed it was soluble in the propylene glycol, but Marija's pharmacist said it is a suspension?  This would mean that is not dissolved and just suspended in the mixture.  Sorry, but I am not familiar with the intensol. Maybe SG or someone else can chime in here.

 

I knew that! Those auto-corrects are awful!

 

Is Marija's pharmacist talking about a Valium intensol? I have to double check that. EDIT: ATIVAN  By the way, the alprazolam intensol is NOT a suspension. The box says solution. The Xanax is in solution.

 

What I can't understand is why adding more water would make it precipitate? Is this something a layperson could understand?

 

If it is labeled as a solution, the Xanax is dissolved in the propylene glycol solvent.  After you add water and if your solution is clear, no particles or cloudiness, then it is safe to say the Xanax stays in solution and does not precipitate out.  You are doing a good job with the solution, and I see no reason why you should not use water. I also like that you take precautions by adding water to the container after drinking your dose.  Also, the amber jars are a great idea.

[/quote

 

I mistyped - he said solution NOT suspension.

But, he is worried about precipitation. We will run a test.

[[an...]]

 

 

I mistyped - he said solution NOT suspension.

But, he is worried about precipitation. We will run a test.

 

Thanks for letting me know.  It certainly is possible that the drug can precipitate out of solution.  Cloudiness is definitely an indication.  I will be interested to hear about the results of the test.  Please keep us posted.

 

Anne

[Guest [Ma...]]

 

 

I mistyped - he said solution NOT suspension.

But, he is worried about precipitation. We will run a test.

 

Thanks for letting me know.  It certainly is possible that the drug can precipitate out of solution.  Cloudiness is definitely an indication.  I will be interested to hear about the results of the test.  Please keep us posted.

 

Anne

 

I will post the results Anne. Thank you for your help.

 

Marija

[[Ul...]]

1)  O.K., I know Sharkey answered this for me once before, but my brain is on a permanent vacation with no intention of returning.  Anyway, he told me that he often put his pill in 2ml of vodka and let it sit overnight. I've done that twice now. One time, I had no problems...I've fixed my dose and off I went. I did it another time (since I'm traveling some and have to take my dose with me...have dose, will travel  ), and when I went into the kitchen the next morning, the little cup I've used since starting all of this, was empty. Everything had evaporated. Really weird. Any thoughts?

 

2)  That's one thing. Here's the other: If I only need to put one or two mL's in a jar and take with me, is it really O.K. to put that tiny little amount in the jar and THEN add some water before putting the top on? Am I messing with the solubility or anything by doing this? I ask because if you put a milliliter of the prepared dose in a small jar...that's just not much stuff in there! How do you drink THAT?? Is it O.K. for me to put the 1mL dose in the jar, add a little water, and then cap the jar and take off (and drink my dose later in the day as needed)? How does ANYBODY deal with such a tiny dose when you have to take it with you for later use? It's not realistic to put 1mL of the solution/dose in a small jar and actually "drink" it later. How do you do it?

 

I'll be in Savannah all day tomorrow knocking on doors and doing what I can to find someone to write scripts for me. I look forward to seeing your answers to the above when I get home tomorrow night.

 

Thanks, gang!

 

Jeff

 

Jeff,

 

You need to cover the jar.  As Gardner said the alcohol will evaporate quickly.

 

Yes, you need to add water.  As of now (actually by Wednesday) I will be down to 0.5 mg/day lorazepam divided into three doses.  If I was using vodka, I would dissolve the 0.5 mg in 2 mL of vodka. I would then add 98 mL of water.  Shake well. Then divide into three equal doses. I carry my doses in small jars in my purse. 

 

I hope you find someone to prescribe very soon. Good luck!!

 

Anne

 

Thank you Gardener and Anne!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Jeff

[[Be...]]

Hi All,

 

I haven't been in the thread for a while, but want to share that I reached the 75% reduction milestone over the weekend.  I am now down to 25% of the dose I was at when I started withdrawal from Klonopin.  My most significant symptom is fatigue.  The other symptoms (i.e. headaches, nausea, cog fog) are trending down as my dosage gets lower.  I have used a mortar and pestle with the water titration method the entire time.  I have not experimented with milk or alcohol.  So far my sleep is generally fair to good and I do not experience much in the way of anxiety.  I have focused on meditation and breathing techniques while in withdrawal and believe I am developing coping skills that are already paying dividends.  I wanted to share my positive experience as I enjoy reading the positivity generated in this support group.  I can definitely vouch for daily micro-tapering.  I am very sure that I would not be where I am if I were trying to cut and hold as I attempted in the beginning.

[Guest [Ma...]]

Hi All,

 

I haven't been in the thread for a while, but want to share that I reached the 75% reduction milestone over the weekend.  I am now down to 25% of the dose I was at when I started withdrawal from Klonopin.  My most significant symptom is fatigue.  The other symptoms (i.e. headaches, nausea, cog fog) are trending down as my dosage gets lower.  I have used a mortar and pestle with the water titration method the entire time.  I have not experimented with milk or alcohol.  So far my sleep is generally fair to good and I do not experience much in the way of anxiety.  I have focused on meditation and breathing techniques while in withdrawal and believe I am developing coping skills that are already paying dividends.  I wanted to share my positive experience as I enjoy reading the positivity generated in this support group.  I can definitely vouch for daily micro-tapering.  I am very sure that I would not be where I am if I were trying to cut and hold as I attempted in the beginning.

 

Ben,

Very inspiring to read. Congratulations and thank you for sharing your progress!

Wishing you a smooth finish to the end.

 

Marija

[[Sh...]]

Hi All,

 

I haven't been in the thread for a while, but want to share that I reached the 75% reduction milestone over the weekend.  I am now down to 25% of the dose I was at when I started withdrawal from Klonopin.  My most significant symptom is fatigue.  The other symptoms (i.e. headaches, nausea, cog fog) are trending down as my dosage gets lower.  I have used a mortar and pestle with the water titration method the entire time.  I have not experimented with milk or alcohol.  So far my sleep is generally fair to good and I do not experience much in the way of anxiety.  I have focused on meditation and breathing techniques while in withdrawal and believe I am developing coping skills that are already paying dividends.  I wanted to share my positive experience as I enjoy reading the positivity generated in this support group.  I can definitely vouch for daily micro-tapering.  I am very sure that I would not be where I am if I were trying to cut and hold as I attempted in the beginning.

 

Great news Ben.  We all need the positive reports.  Yay!

Shaani

[[ga...]]

 

 

I mistyped - he said solution NOT suspension.

But, he is worried about precipitation. We will run a test.

 

Thanks for letting me know.  It certainly is possible that the drug can precipitate out of solution.  Cloudiness is definitely an indication.  I will be interested to hear about the results of the test.  Please keep us posted.

 

Anne

 

Me, too. Very interested in why the med would precipitate!

Gardener

[[ga...]]

Hi All,

 

I haven't been in the thread for a while, but want to share that I reached the 75% reduction milestone over the weekend.  I am now down to 25% of the dose I was at when I started withdrawal from Klonopin.  My most significant symptom is fatigue.  The other symptoms (i.e. headaches, nausea, cog fog) are trending down as my dosage gets lower.  I have used a mortar and pestle with the water titration method the entire time.  I have not experimented with milk or alcohol.  So far my sleep is generally fair to good and I do not experience much in the way of anxiety.  I have focused on meditation and breathing techniques while in withdrawal and believe I am developing coping skills that are already paying dividends.  I wanted to share my positive experience as I enjoy reading the positivity generated in this support group.  I can definitely vouch for daily micro-tapering.  I am very sure that I would not be where I am if I were trying to cut and hold as I attempted in the beginning.

 

Thank you so much for sharing this. I really needed an encouraging story today!

[[an...]]

Hi All,

 

I haven't been in the thread for a while, but want to share that I reached the 75% reduction milestone over the weekend.  I am now down to 25% of the dose I was at when I started withdrawal from Klonopin.  My most significant symptom is fatigue.  The other symptoms (i.e. headaches, nausea, cog fog) are trending down as my dosage gets lower.  I have used a mortar and pestle with the water titration method the entire time.  I have not experimented with milk or alcohol.  So far my sleep is generally fair to good and I do not experience much in the way of anxiety.  I have focused on meditation and breathing techniques while in withdrawal and believe I am developing coping skills that are already paying dividends.  I wanted to share my positive experience as I enjoy reading the positivity generated in this support group.  I can definitely vouch for daily micro-tapering.  I am very sure that I would not be where I am if I were trying to cut and hold as I attempted in the beginning.

 

Ben

 

This is wonderful news.  Congratulations!!  You are almost there.

 

I am also using water for my taper.  On Wednesday my daily dose will be reduced by 33 percent.  Down from 0.75 to 0.50 mg/day.  I am hoping to be where you are by mid October.

 

Good luck with the rest of your taper.  Please keep us posted.

 

Anne

[Guest [Ma...]]

 

 

I mistyped - he said solution NOT suspension.

But, he is worried about precipitation. We will run a test.

 

Thanks for letting me know.  It certainly is possible that the drug can precipitate out of solution.  Cloudiness is definitely an indication.  I will be interested to hear about the results of the test.  Please keep us posted.

 

Anne

 

Me, too. Very interested in why the med would precipitate!

Gardener

 

Yes, for sure. Given that you are currently using the product it will be useful information.

 

[[do...]]

Hello dear buddies,

 

Hope all is well with your tapers.

 

I am only on day 2 of my taper and am having sort of extreme withdrawal symptoms, like jaw and arms and legs stiff, irritability and of course tinnitus.

 

Do you think that I am making my solution incorrectly?

 

I only have a 5ml oral syringe and was wondering can I still make cuts efficiently with it.  When you say on day 1 to cut to 99.5 (the .5 equals 1/2 ml.....right).  Would it be easier if I purchased a 1ml syringe.

 

I realize that probably am one of the "dumb ones."  But I am honestly confused.

 

Thanks,

doodle dog

 

Doodle did hold at full dose? How long?

 

Yes, .5ml is 1/2 a ml and you can use the 5ml syringe.

 

Briefly tell me how you make your solution.

 

Sharkey

 

Hello Sharkey,

 

I held at the full dose for 8 days.

 

I make a 2 day solution with the .5 mg pill dissolved in 2 ml vodka,  then add 198 ml water.

 

I have been working with just the one bottle to draw out my doses.  On Monday measured out 50 ml and removed the .5 ml from my morning dose.  On Tuesday did the same removing 1 ml from my morning dose.  Today I was to remove 1.5 ml so I took 1 ml from morning dose and thought that I would remove the remainder from my night time dose.

 

Perhaps my problem is that I need more containers to work with.....first of all.  And second I should remove the cut from the entire daily amount of 100 ml and divide my 2 doses evenly.

 

Today I had a pretty bad day and probably will not cut the other .5 ml this evening.

 

Or maybe I just need to stay on my full dose in liquids for a few more day before removing anything.

 

Sorry to be such a pain.  Hope I was brief enough.

 

Thanks so much.

doodle dog

 

Yes,  I would definitely suggest holding at full dose for a while longer.

 

ditto, doodle dog. (try saying that five times fast) I'd hold your full dose awhile longer until your body gets used to the liquid. hang in there, buddy. You can do this! we are all here for you.

 

hugs,

shannon

 

Hey Shannon,

 

I will do.  Thanks so much.  Guess I feel sort of defeated.  I had no idea to what degree ativan had a hold of my psyche and body.  Very scary.

 

Hope you are doing well.

doodle dog

 

Doodle,

I'm pretty sure we all felt like this when we first started to taper...when we realized how hard it was to do this. I remember when I first decided to get off this, and started to taper and got hit with the worst symptoms, I was FLOORED. I  couldn't believe how hard this was.

 

But I guess I sorta believe in the big-picture-plan kinda thing. I think we are all going thru this so we can help prevent others from even starting this stuff in the future. because of our experiences, we will be able to help countless people. So hang in there, it might be a little bit of time before we are free of these things, but we will get there.

 

hugs, shannon

 

This is so true!  Facing this experience head on can be very intimidating.  And in the beginning can cause a lot of headache and unfortunately increases symptoms in a way that cannot be measured.  ACCEPTANCE at this point is the most important decision you can make.  once you do this it makes the process less painful.  This has been my experience.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

 

Hey Shannon & Sharkey,

 

Thank you so much for your encouraging words.  Yes, I will accept and face the symptoms head on because it beats the alternative of being on this yucky stuff forever and not being my true self.

 

So glad to know that I am not alone in this battle.

 

With gratitude,

doodle dog

 

I can so relate to how doodle is feeling and this whole conversation! Thanks buddies!

 

P.S. I found my 5 ml syringe impossible and use these 1 ml syringes now. Very easy to read.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013Y6JK2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

Hey Gardener,

 

Thanks so much for the syringe ordering info.  Much appreciated.

 

We can do this!

 

Take care and hugs to you,

doodle dog

 

 

[[do...]]

Hello Gardener,

 

Thanks for posting the info about the recovery road. org website.    I checked it out and it is rather helpful.

 

I hope that you are doing better.

 

Here's to our healing.

doodle dog

[[ga...]]

Hello Gardener,

 

Thanks for posting the info about the recovery road. org website.    I checked it out and it is rather helpful.

 

I hope that you are doing better.

 

Here's to our healing.

doodle dog

 

Thanks, doodle! I really like recovery-road.org because it's pretty simple to navigate and doesn't overwhelm you with too much information.

[[We...]]

Hi All,

 

I haven't been in the thread for a while, but want to share that I reached the 75% reduction milestone over the weekend.  I am now down to 25% of the dose I was at when I started withdrawal from Klonopin.  My most significant symptom is fatigue.  The other symptoms (i.e. headaches, nausea, cog fog) are trending down as my dosage gets lower.  I have used a mortar and pestle with the water titration method the entire time.  I have not experimented with milk or alcohol.  So far my sleep is generally fair to good and I do not experience much in the way of anxiety.  I have focused on meditation and breathing techniques while in withdrawal and believe I am developing coping skills that are already paying dividends.  I wanted to share my positive experience as I enjoy reading the positivity generated in this support group.  I can definitely vouch for daily micro-tapering.  I am very sure that I would not be where I am if I were trying to cut and hold as I attempted in the beginning.

 

awesome ben. I am really happy to hear this. thanks for coming and posting!

 

shan

[[We...]]

Hi All,

 

I haven't been in the thread for a while, but want to share that I reached the 75% reduction milestone over the weekend.  I am now down to 25% of the dose I was at when I started withdrawal from Klonopin.  My most significant symptom is fatigue.  The other symptoms (i.e. headaches, nausea, cog fog) are trending down as my dosage gets lower.  I have used a mortar and pestle with the water titration method the entire time.  I have not experimented with milk or alcohol.  So far my sleep is generally fair to good and I do not experience much in the way of anxiety.  I have focused on meditation and breathing techniques while in withdrawal and believe I am developing coping skills that are already paying dividends.  I wanted to share my positive experience as I enjoy reading the positivity generated in this support group.  I can definitely vouch for daily micro-tapering.  I am very sure that I would not be where I am if I were trying to cut and hold as I attempted in the beginning.

 

Ben

 

This is wonderful news.  Congratulations!!  You are almost there.

 

I am also using water for my taper.  On Wednesday my daily dose will be reduced by 33 percent.  Down from 0.75 to 0.50 mg/day.  I am hoping to be where you are by mid October.

 

Good luck with the rest of your taper.  Please keep us posted.

 

Anne

 

Hi Anne,

 

I'm interested, did you switch back to plain ol' water instead of alcohol? do you think the alcohol was causing you to have some extra symptoms?

 

I'm still waiting until my accpuncture treatments are finished before I start tapering again, and I'm not 100% sold on how I will do it. I'm trying to get as much info as possible.

 

Thanks so much,

Shan/wecan

[[ga...]]

Hi Guys, I put together this list of stuff I purchased on amazon to use with my diluting and titrating. It may be helpful to people who are starting out and trying to figure out where to get some of this stuff. It is not the final word on the subject by any means. It's just what I have used myself. I spent a lot of time hunting on amazon in my early days of tapering, so perhaps someone will be spared some time and energy by having these links. Feel free to copy and paste it but, if you do, please include the notes, not just the links.

 

 

My Supplies for Dilution and Titration

 

 

1ml syringes marked at .02 intervals that come with caps. Easy to see the exact dose. Can be carried tip down in purse or pocket carefully if the plunger is not pulled back very far. Note: syringes will lose their markings and get harder to use as they get older. This is typical. Sometimes people think syringes have needles and look concerned when they see me with it. I say, "Don't worry, it has no needle; it's an oral syringe, like you would use to give medicine to a baby or a cat." Then they understand and look relieved.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013Y6JK2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

30ml (very small) amber bottles with rubber seals so they don't leak. Good for carrying a small dose that is too big to fit in a syringe. Also less scary-looking than a syringe.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I4ABY4E?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

10ml syringes that I find hard to use for measuring meds because of the design of the plunger. I use them for storing and carrying a small amount of water to use for rinsing the tiny bottles after dosing (and drinking the rinse water to be sure nothing is left behind). These also come with caps.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OABXLOM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

100ml amber glass jar for storing dilution. Holds 100ml but very close to top of jar. Not good for shaking. It will leak. Nice wide top makes it easy to draw out a dose with your syringe. Nice wide top allows bits of dust to fall in.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006QNILTW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

50ml graduated cylinder. It's glass. I've knocked it over a few times but it hasn't broken. Some people buy 2 just in case. It seems to be very close to accurate. I use it to measure the water part of the dilution.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006UKIAJW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

100ml graduated cylinder by the same company. I haven't actually used this size, myself, but many people do.

http://www.amazon.com/213I12-Karter-Scientific-Graduated-Cylinder/dp/B006UKIASI/ref=pd_sim_328_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=09M84H793FJXQYDY00F7

 

 

Note: Sometimes a product on amazon gets changed by the manufacturer, so it's a good idea to read over the description and make sure it is still the same product. If amazon sends you a product that does not match their description, they will accept the return and pay for the shipping, too. I always make sure the product is sold by amazon or fulfilled by amazon rather than an outside vendor who is advertising on amazon. Because of this, I've never had trouble with an amazon return.