Trying to not worry about milk titration but switching over in the past 9 days..

[[dg...]]

hey benzo,

 

i was symptomatic before i started the taper, that was the whole point of starting the taper because i was symptomatic and i know this drug is part of the problem. it had these same symptoms before but they got much worse when i started this taper thats what ive been saying throughout this thread. its not like i went from feeling great to feeling like garbage because of the taper, it was more like i went from feeling like crap to feeling even worse since starting the taper.

 

the way i prepare it is like this:

 

1. take 2 glasses, put them next to eachother. in one glass, pour some whole milk.

2. take the 10ml syringe, take out 5 10ml pulls from the whole milk glass into the empty glass to create 50ml of milk.

3. drop a 0.5mg clonazepam pill in there and shake it. then put it in the fridge.

4. wait like 4-6 hours and then shake it before bed. wake up in the morning and shake it again. then i drink it.

 

as for the comments about drinking milk with klonopin, its not like putting the tab on your tongue and then swallowing the pill with milk instead of water. i did that thousands of times in the morning when i was taking the tablets. what i think is happening is that since the pill is dissolving in the milk first and then Im drinking, it is somehow getting digested through my body differently. i dont know if this is true or not but its the only thing i can think of. there is nothing else im doing right now that would cause this tension and adrenaline to boost like this.

[[Ma...]]

Took me 17 days to settle down when I switched to milk. I had been dry cutting ashton style 1mg V every 2 weeks and was brutally - out of my mind symptomatic - held until I felt better - and then went to milk just a few days later. Felt like I had just cut big time. Was upset and worried - and had no idea if it was the milk or not, but I felt better. A few days of good, then bad - then better. Same thing happened again later in my taper when I put my day time dose into milk - but didn't last as long and wasn't as strong- like a week.. but I wasn't symptomatic before.

 

Hang in there while can take weeks to stabilize - and you weren't stable to begin with. Tough to start a taper from a place of feeling bad in the first place - asking a lot of your CNS.

 

 

[Guest [be...]]

Ok,  I see it could be that you were already symptomatic.  But, milk dosing shouldn't cause such a huge issue,  than again,  we're dealing with benzo ' s here and we are all different.

 

Try prepping like this: draw up your milk the same way, drop your .5 mg K pill in your 50 mL's,  put lid on and put in the fridge. After about a few hours,  then shake it once (not to harshly), then shake again 1 or 2 more times over a 12 - 24 hour period. Take that prep jar and eye - ball even, split it into 2 doses. Take one every 12 hours and rinse your prep jar & lid with water & drink, do the same with your dosing jars (I use hard plastic Gladware,  no problem).  You should be dosing two times a day, that maybe the problem.  However you need to modify your timing to allow up to 24 hours,  you'll figure out and no need to get up I'm the night to shake.

 

Watch your foods such as cruciferous vegetables (avoid) MSG (lots of different types of MSG), meat cooked on gas or charcoal (avoid) and certain spices such ad cinnamon, oregano,  all spice, capsaicin. Limit sugar and caffeine,  I can handle this in smaller amounts.

 

There are some people sensitive enough that they feel the change over to liquid delivery. IMO,  it's more likely when one comes in symptomatic. I do believe it will settle down and I really believe that the best way to taper is using daily small cuts that only liquid allows for.

 

Stay positive, it'll get better.

[[dg...]]

Took me 17 days to settle down when I switched to milk. I had been dry cutting ashton style 1mg V every 2 weeks and was brutally - out of my mind symptomatic - held until I felt better - and then went to milk just a few days later. Felt like I had just cut big time. Was upset and worried - and had no idea if it was the milk or not, but I felt better. A few days of good, then bad - then better. Same thing happened again later in my taper when I put my day time dose into milk - but didn't last as long and wasn't as strong- like a week.. but I wasn't symptomatic before.

 

Hang in there while can take weeks to stabilize - and you weren't stable to begin with. Tough to start a taper from a place of feeling bad in the first place - asking a lot of your CNS.

 

Yeah thats a big reason why Im getting off klonopin. I was symptomatic, I was doing deep relaxation every single day for months, and wasn't getting better. I follow anxietycentre.com and Im following that program. I should have been calming down a lot more than I was but me and Jim on there both believe klonopin is keeping my nervous system stirred up. So I came into this already having a lot of symptoms but it just became amplified when switching to liquid.

 

 

[[dg...]]

Ok,  I see it could be that you were already symptomatic.  But, milk dosing shouldn't cause such a huge issue,  than again,  we're dealing with benzo ' s here and we are all different.

 

Try prepping like this: draw up your milk the same way, drop your .5 mg K pill in your 50 mL's,  put lid on and put in the fridge. After about a few hours,  then shake it once (not to harshly), then shake again 1 or 2 more times over a 12 - 24 hour period. Take that prep jar and eye - ball even, split it into 2 doses. Take one every 12 hours and rinse your prep jar & lid with water & drink, do the same with your dosing jars (I use hard plastic Gladware,  no problem).  You should be dosing two times a day, that maybe the problem.  However you need to modify your timing to allow up to 24 hours,  you'll figure out and no need to get up I'm the night to shake.

 

Watch your foods such as cruciferous vegetables (avoid) MSG (lots of different types of MSG), meat cooked on gas or charcoal (avoid) and certain spices such ad cinnamon, oregano,  all spice, capsaicin. Limit sugar and caffeine,  I can handle this in smaller amounts.

 

There are some people sensitive enough that they feel the change over to liquid delivery. IMO,  it's more likely when one comes in symptomatic. I do believe it will settle down and I really believe that the best way to taper is using daily small cuts that only liquid allows for.

 

Stay positive, it'll get better.

 

How come you suggest staying away from those certain veggies and the spices? I already greatly limit my amount of sugar and don't drink or take in caffeine (except for the 9mg in chocolate sometimes). Also why do you suggest doing 2 doses a day versus one? I've been on one dose of klonopin (except for a couple months when my doctor was giving me 1mg in the morning, 1mg midday and then 1mg at night but I tapered this down to 0.5mg). My initial dose was 0.5mg in the morning and I did that for around 3 1/2 years before I had a major panic attack and the psychiatrist tried to calm me down by putting me on more klonopin. Anyway, doing 2 doses a day for me would complicate the whole procedure and the math associated with it. Is it really needed?

[[dg...]]

yeah im trying to get my body back to the "tablet" state i was in before i started titration so I can begin cutting. even though that still really sucked it was better than this

[[dg...]]

well thats good to know thanks for the info about the cruciferous veggies. im hanging on by a thread here right now but i want to stick this out so i can do this right. im a little concerned about going to 2 doses a day beacuse then its really going to feel like a cut since im used to .5 in the morning, not .025.  is it possible that my body just doesn't like the liquid format or should i just give it a couple more days and see what happens. i still need to work and stuff, not to mention being able to function. is it possible if i switched up the liquid that i dissolved the pill in it might change the reaction im having? maybe try water?

[[Di...]]

 

Dosing 2 times a day allows for even levels of the benzo, which is necessary IMO to a good taper. It also staves off inter dose withdrawal. This doesn't mess with the math part of tapering as your cut us removed from the prep jar and than, you take the remaining K milk and eye ball level, pour into 2 dosing jars.

 

The foods I mentioned such as cruciferous vegetables,  affect induction and inhibition of the drug via the CYP450 enzymes.  Cruciferous vegetables will induce (push out) the benzo faster.  When you're tapering,  you are already removing X amount of Y benzo. If one eats an inducing food, it will remove(push out) more of the benzo than one has already "cut." This will cause more withdrawal symptoms. Same with nicotine and so on.

 

 

 

Not everyone needs to dose more than once a day, especially with the longer acting benzos like K. Seeing as dgreen97 has never needed to dose more than once a day, it might not be that necessary to change. I personally would only change that routine if other options didn't work first.

 

Also cruciferous vegetables don't always affect people either. I always ate a large variety of veggies everyday throughout my taper, including cruciferous, and never had any problems.

 

Basically there aren't any "rules" in tapering. You just have to work out what works for you as you go along.

[[dg...]]

learning that now that everybody is different, im going to change to water titration tomorrow and see if that makes a difference.

[[...]]

I agree with DP that if once a day dosing is working there is no need to change it.

 

On the cruciferous veggies, they only induce enzyme 1A2 and K is not metabolized by that enzyme so I don't think they will affect K.

 

I agree with benzo-off that using water with K is not a good idea.  The quality of your solution will suffer.

[[dg...]]

i know you guys recommend milk because it is soluable in it and easier to make the mixture even but i did water today and im feeling better so far. obviously the pain is still there but it feels more like I was on tablets. keeping my fingers crossed it stays like this. when i get to the point of actually making cuts, i'll just shake the shit out of it and then draw out the amount i need

[[dg...]]

well this is the second day that I attempted making the water solution. I see what you're saying now with it settling on the bottom, even shaking it the solution doesn't seem to be even in the water so its fine to take if you're not cutting but will probably be unequal day to day. switched back to milk today, i want to give it a few more days to see if my body adjusts, i guess we'll see what happens

[[dg...]]

also i dont want to worry about nasacort causing issues. this is really helping me with my post nasal drip and breathing issues but since i felt like crap I eliminated everything out of what I was doing daily. I was taking the nasacort for about a week and it completely eliminated my post nasal drip.

[[Ma...]]

Hi there - I would avoid the nasal steroids during taper. Even a small amount getting absorbed systemically could cause hurt during benzo taper. Used to take Veramyst and dropped it until I am well through my taper and healing.

 

Good call to avoid it - live with the stuffy nose. Consider buying a battery powered nasal irrigator. They are just as effective - once you get used to it:)

[[dg...]]

mark,

 

is there a reason why the nasal steroids should be avoided? its not just a stuffy nose, right now i feel fine but if i get postnasal drip it makes it hard for me to breath and nasacort really helps me clear that up. so if i just take it if i get postnasal drip i dont understand why thats an issue. any ideas? i want to minimize any added withdrawal during this taper but don't want to get scared of everything either and any drug i take.

 

alex

[[ki...]]

dgreen -

 

Nasal Steroids are what got me onto benzos in the first place.  Despite what Dr's say, they can in many cases go systemic, not just topical.  When I started to stop the steroid after using it for 4 weeks, it felt like a benzo cold turkey and my body had stopped making its own cortisol.  Enter benzos to help a little with the residual 2 months of insomnia and panic and then this freaking nightmare.  All because of some sinus issues.  I met with an endocrinologist during that steroid crash and he said indeed topical steroids can go systemic on occasion.  Steroids and benzos are cross-tolerant. 

 

Now I just do saline rinsing of my sinuses.  It isn't as good, but much better than a steroid. 

 

STAY AWAY!!!!!

[[Ao...]]

Hi dgreen

 

I know this thread is over a month old but I just would like to ask you , have you gotten used to the liquid titration and how are you doing since ? ....

 

I have begun a milk titration method with Valium . I will hold until I stabilise.  Like you , I was very symptomatic beforehand and I couldn't handle dry cutting. When I switched over to milk titration - oh the muscle spasms and pains increased. 

[[dg...]]

hey aoi,

 

i stopped doing the milk titration and went back to dry cutting just in smaller amounts. i held for over 2 weeks and wasn't feeling better and that was without cutting my dose at all so i decided to go back to dry cutting which i did my entire taper until i reached 0.5mg klonopin. yeah i had the same issue where the muscle pain and symptoms increased when i switched to milk

[[Ao...]]

How are you on the dry cutting now dpier ? Did you get any sense of stability when you switched back ? ....

You have had a seriously rough time.  I  am struggling too.