Tapering while in severe tolerance, advice needed

[[No...]]

Oh, geez, Need, you've really been through it, huh?

 

You probably already know this, but apparently, Ambien and the other "z" drugs work like a benzo. They do essentially the same thing to the brain. I'm wondering if that has something to do with the situation you're in now. Also, the anti-depressants. I was on a slew of those, too, as well as a brief time on an anti-psychotic, which was supposed to supplement the anti-depressant that was no longer working.    I think the tolerance withdrawal started for me around the time I went off Zoloft (I'd been on the highest dosage for 10 years).

 

Interestingly, I, too, was diagnosed with a rare disorder (genetic, involving the joints) right before I started to taper Klonopin. I'd gone to an orthopedic surgeon about a martial-arts injury that wasn't healing after a year. That diagnosis was what led me to find out that benzos can cause all sorts of health problems, and one by one, things began to add up. I'd had really strange, vague, seemingly unrelated symptoms for years. Now I wonder if all of it was caused by Klonopin. I think it's entirely possible--even likely--because I'm not in much pain at all anymore. You may indeed be surprised at how a lot of problems disappear once you're free. I hope so.

 

If you're in tolerance withdrawal and paradoxical (and you're the only one around here who knows whether you are or not, so don't allow outside doubt to creep in, as I did on occasion--gah!), the only way you'll know is if you get off the drug. I wish there were an easier, more clear answer to all this, but there isn't, as far as I know. I can tell you for sure, though, that I was in quite a lot of pain in my last years on Klonopin and in the months following my withdrawal, and aside from an occasional wave, I'm not in any pain now. In fact, what I realized is that I was in so much pain for so long that I wasn't fully aware of it until it was gone. It's amazing, really.

 

Crazy stuff, I know, but doable. I promise it's doable, because I did it. 

 

 

 

 

[[Ne...]]

NoKlonoNo,

 

Agree that Ambien was probably a factor.  I could tell after a long run of a few days on it that my athletic performance was degraded.

 

Were you able to work full time during the descent?  I think I could go faster if I wasn't working.  Was your pain muscle tension related and could you exercise?

 

You really pulled it off well...how long was the acute after last dose?  Sorry for the rapid-fire questions. 

[[No...]]

NoKlonoNo,

Were able to work full time during the descent?  I think I could faster if I wasn't working.  Was your pain muscle tension related and could you exercise?

 

You really pulled it off well...how long was the acute after last dose?  Sorry for the rapid-fire questions.

 

I stopped working when I was in tolerance withdrawal, so I'm not a very good gauge for employment-while-withdrawing, I'm afraid. I'm an artist, and during my last few years on Klonopin, my creativity and motivation came to a screeching halt. I had no idea what was going on. Now I'm certain Klonopin caused it.

 

I dropped 50% of my dose at the beginning in about 6 weeks, too. THAT was too fast. I was a mess, for sure.

 

What I've noticed with people in tolerance withdrawal and those who are paradoxical is that they feel better as they get lower in dosage. That's what happened to me, as well. And I didn't really have an acute withdrawal period. The only new symptom I got was a few weeks of intermittent "floaty boat" sensations. The vertigo got more intense around the same time. All in all, though, acute was entirely anti-climactic for me. If I hadn't been on this forum, I'd have declared myself over it all by 3-4 months (when I started working again). I went on to get hit with a wave at 6 months, though, so I'm really glad I'm on the forum and knew what was going on.

 

Regarding exercise, I haven't been doing much. I dropped out of martial arts right before I started my taper (bad vertigo) and haven't been motivated to go back, partly because I still don't know if I really have this condition that makes getting tossed around a dojo a bad idea. I take walks, I dance, I lift the occasional weight, but I've never been motivated to exercise just for the sake of exercise--and my motivation level is still really wonky, anyway. It has nothing to do with being in pain, though.

 

The debilitating pain I had was in my joints, and I would describe it as burning pain more than muscle-related. I also had muscle pain, though, in my back, as well as numbness (for years) in my lower legs and hands. All of that is gone, for the most part. I'm still shocked by how much stuff is gone. Wow.

 

So, I'm describing all this stuff, and I completely get why you're asking, because I did the same thing. What I discovered, though, is that the process really is different for everyone. I don't mind answering questions at all. Just know that the expression "your mileage may vary" applies to benzo withdrawal like nothing I've ever experienced.

 

I do think there's a good chance that you'll feel better as you get lower in dosage, though. That seems common for tolerance withdrawal/paradoxical reactions. So the news isn't all bad at all. I also want to point out that, while I may have done a fast taper compared to some on this forum, I didn't do a fast taper at all. From 10mg down, I was on the *slow* side of Ashton at 0.5mg a week.

 

Hope this helps somehow, Need2Heal. Feel free to ask me anything you'd like.

 

 

 

[[Di...]]

Still think it's just a much too fast taper, and not stabilising, but that's just my opinion.

 

Where in my taper profile did I go too fast?  Just curious so I know.  I will keep holding for a bit.  Too bad I can't press it a bit since I have no commitments until Jan 5th. 

 

I can only go by what you have in your signature, but in it you said you started out on 1mg X in April. Then you increased to 1.5mg X in June. That’s equivalent to 30mg of Valium. Then you not only crossed to klonopin, but also valium, all at the same time as cutting from an equivalent of 30mg V down to 7mg V in 7 months. TBH it’s no wonder you are feeling it.

 

I’m not sure if you were just trying to closely follow the Ashton Method, but a lot of people simply can’t follow it to the letter, and it would appear you are possibly one of them.

 

No one can categorically say that what you are feeling is either paradoxical or tolerance withdrawal because the speed of your taper, and your lack of stabilisation when crossing over, also needs to be taken into account. To totally overlook your taper speed, and just focus on tolerance and paradox, IMO is not focusing on the more probable explanation.

 

However, like I said, that is just my opinion, and I can only give my suggestions based on my opinion. If you really feel your taper speed isn’t the issue, and that you think it is paradox and/or tolerance, then you have to go with what you believe. I will bow out of the discussion because I don't want to offer any suggestions based on those issues.

 

[[Co...]]

Everyone is talking about having increased anxiety & agitation when withdrawing,may help to start looking at a very well know adverse side effect of ALL neuroleptics,including benzos is AKATHISIA,it is a horrendous side effect that very few if any Dr's will let on about,do some research on it,you maybe be experiencing this & not just anxiety.

[[ba...]]

Thank you to everyone for the information.  I'm so thankful for this place.

[[Ne...]]

Everyone is talking about having increased anxiety & agitation when withdrawing,may help to start looking at a very well know adverse side effect of ALL neuroleptics,including benzos is AKATHISIA,it is a horrendous side effect that very few if any Dr's will let on about,do some research on it,you maybe be experiencing this & not just anxiety.

 

I've researched this up and indeed it is a horrifying sx.  But, I don't think I have that...and hopefully it doesn't develop.  Lord knows I have enough to deal with as it is.