Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Ju...]]

Hi Lainey !

Sorry, I figured it as if you were taking one dose per day.

Glad it got figured out, and good luck w your taper.

-Justaman

[[la...]]

Justa, thank you...I dose 2xs a day as you now know and I will be on her often for more support...just wish I could give back

[[Ju...]]

Hi Laineyk;

I think we will all be giving back; once we are healed and functional we automatically become 'soldiers in the war against benzos'.

I tell everyone who will listen, and plan to do a lot more in the future after I'm healed. These drugs were never meant to be used for more than

a few weeks. If they put me in a room with the Doc that started me on this stuff, it would get ugly. And I'm peaceful by nature.

Good luck w/ your taper L,

-Justaman

[[In...]]

I need some help.  I am presently dosing my Valium 4x a day, not evenly.  I dose at:

7:00am

2:30pm

10:30pm

12:15am

 

I wondered if I should try to take my 12:15am dose and split it up between my other doses?  I want to DLMT sometime, but I want to be at a good starting point.  I have noticed every night for the last week or so that I feel heart palps (verified extra beats by my cardio....I've gotten them my whole life, but no where near this frequent) between 8-10pm every night..  I wondered if this could somehow be related to the uneven dosing.  I doubted it but, since a lot of people only dose once a day.  But, I wanted to check with you guys.  Also, if it could cause it, how should I go about splitting up that last dose into my other three doses? If I just switch one day, won't I feel the effects of the time changes?  Any input is greatly appreciated.  I would like to start tapering as soon as possible, seeing a my Ativan taper didn't work and I ended up on Valium.  Thanks guys.

[[ed...]]

I'd start out by evening out my dose and seeing what happens. Unfortunately, some of us experience sx no matter what alterations we make.  Maybe even it out, keep it for several days, and reevaluate.  Reducing the number of doses per day affects different people differently. Some have no issue, some a big issue, some a minor issue. I fell in the camp of the latter.  Let us know you you fare.

 

Best,

Ed

[[Tw...]]

After your crossover did you try taking two doses daily instead of 4 times? I went from 3 a day on K to twice on the Valium bc it seems to stay in much longer between doses. Just a suggestion instead of 4 daily micro doses.

[[In...]]

I'd start out by evening out my dose and seeing what happens. Unfortunately, some of us experience sx no matter what alterations we make.  Maybe even it out, keep it for several days, and reevaluate.  Reducing the number of doses per day affects different people differently. Some have no issue, some a big issue, some a minor issue. I fell in the camp of the latter.  Let us know you you fare.

 

Best,

Ed

 

I thought of evening them out, but Ashton has you get rid of afternoon doses and mornings then leaves it all at night.  And, builder suggested that I could leave a bigger dose at night since a lot of people only dose once a day... I'm very sensitive to changes, so I'm really worried how this will go.

  How could I even them out? .Do you mean take them 6hrs apart?  Would I just start moving one dose at a time by 15mins or so every day?  Or, what would you suggest?  Or, should I try to integrate my last night dose into my other doses....Say, add ¼ of it to my morning dose, a ¼ of it to KY after noon dose, then take the other ½ with my 10:30 dose?  That would get me down to 3 doses. Do I really need to dose V 4x a day?  I just don't want to mess up.  I know I won't k ow how I react until I try, but I am scared of how it'll change me...Since I've never cut nor altered my V since I have been on it alone since November.  Thanks. 

[[ed...]]

I'd start out by evening out my dose and seeing what happens. Unfortunately, some of us experience sx no matter what alterations we make.  Maybe even it out, keep it for several days, and reevaluate.  Reducing the number of doses per day affects different people differently. Some have no issue, some a big issue, some a minor issue. I fell in the camp of the latter.  Let us know you you fare.

 

Best,

Ed

 

I thought of evening them out, but Ashton has you get rid of afternoon doses and mornings then leaves it all at night.  And, builder suggested that I could leave a bigger dose at night since a lot of people only dose once a day... I'm very sensitive to changes, so I'm really worried how this will go.

  How could I even them out? .Do you mean take them 6hrs apart?  Would I just start moving one dose at a time by 15mins or so every day?  Or, what would you suggest?  Or, should I try to integrate my last night dose into my other doses....Say, add ¼ of it to my morning dose, a ¼ of it to KY after noon dose, then take the other ½ with my 10:30 dose?  That would get me down to 3 doses. Do I really need to dose V 4x a day?  I just don't want to mess up.  I know I won't k ow how I react until I try, but I am scared of how it'll change me...Since I've never cut nor altered my V since I have been on it alone since November.  Thanks.

 

Well, I can only speak for myself. I used to be a 3x a day doser. I kept my doses exactly 6 hours apart (10am, 4pm, and 10pm). I kept them all equal amounts. Eventually, I moved to 2x a day dosing (still do 2x per day) and take the doses at 11am and 11pm.  I still keep my doses in equal amounts. 

 

This can be really tough, but the only way to figure things out is to just do them. I know it sounds scary, but you can do it. You just have to try and see how your body reacts.  Also, I can tell you that Ashton's schedule is a guideline, it isn't a complete blueprint.  Most here simply can not keep up with her reduction schedule and find it a bit aggressive. Also, I've know some people who dose 1x per day for their entire taper, some 2x, some 3x, some 6x!  It's a matter of personal preference.  I moved from 3X to 2X simply for the sake of convenience. If you want to keep 4x, then go for it. If you want to do 3x, you can split that 4th dose into thirds and apply equally to each of the other 3 doses OR you can do as you say and put 1/4, 1/4, and 1/2 into the other 3 doses.

 

I really wish there was a one size fits all method, but there simply isn't. Just remember though that you can do this, you have tons of support here, and this is temporary.

 

Best,

Ed

[[Ki...]]

Mine was split up at one point ( just for an example when I was at 10 mg V) 9 mg bedtime then .25 mg breakfast, .25 lunch,.25 dinner and the last .25 taken whenever I woke up in the middle of the night. Even just those little bits during the daytime was enough to hold my interdose symptoms in check pretty good. Once I found out I was a rapid metabolizer I just took a little grapefruit juice with my bedtime dose so I dont have to do it anymore, but for the 4 months or so before I figured out what was going on, just finding out how much was needed to get me through the day really helped me. But it seems more people do better using an even dose- like a third of a dose at a time. I took mine primarily for sleep rather than anxiety though so that might be why some plans work better than others for different people.

[[In...]]

Mine was split up at one point ( just for an example when I was at 10 mg V) 9 mg bedtime then .25 mg breakfast, .25 lunch,.25 dinner and the last .25 taken whenever I woke up in the middle of the night. Even just those little bits during the daytime was enough to hold my interdose symptoms in check pretty good. Once I found out I was a rapid metabolizer I just took a little grapefruit juice with my bedtime dose so I dont have to do it anymore, but for the 4 months or so before I figured out what was going on, just finding out how much was needed to get me through the day really helped me. But it seems more people do better using an even dose- like a third of a dose at a time. I took mine primarily for sleep rather than anxiety though so that might be why some plans work better than others for different people.

 

I actually am an ultra rapid metabolizer with the CYP1A2 gene.  My CYP2CP gene, one allelle is normal and one is reduced, so I get confued. I  have reduced enzyme activity compared to normal gene types with this one.  So, I am completely confused about it all.  Your gene is listed as an intermediate metabolizer on my sheet. So I understand as I am listed as an ultra rapid metabolizer.  It just makes this so much harder, since one says I ultra rapidly metabolize, but one says I am reduced at metabolizing.. I thought grapefruit was a no no with benzos?

[[Ge...]]

I used to take 1.5mg Xanax per day in 6 .25mg  doses...  and I only take valium once a day (at bedtime) right now. 

[[Tw...]]

If it were me I would take dose twice daily and not worry about gene mutations or metabolism. Set yourself up like Ashtons taper schedule has. Obviously what your doing isn't working so maybe another approach is the answer and if not go back to how it is now. I took Ashtons taper schedule and tweaked it for myself.

[[bu...]]

 

 

  I thought grapefruit was a no no with benzos?

 

"...grapefruit juice (ingested approx. 30 minutes before benzo) has a good potentiation effect on: Valium (Diazepam), Klonopin (Clonazepam), and Tranxene (Chlorazepate). Grapefruit juice seems to have a mild potentiation effect on: Xanax (Alprazolam), Ativan (Lorazepam), and Librium (Chlordiazepoxide)."

 

Pharmacology - Grapefruit Juice and Benzodiazepines - Drugs Forum

https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26819

[[Ki...]]

I mentioned using grapefruit for myself only because it helps me to dose once a day instead of 4/6. It has that warning on the bottle because it inactivates the enzyme that breaks down a LOT of drugs, not just benzos, and can be very dangerous. But for fast metabolizers it can, in small doses, be a blessing by making us a little closer to normal. For anyone with normal or lowered amounts of the enzyme- VERY bad idea. Not just grapefruit but certain antacids do the same thing, all listed on the printout they give you with the script. Inner, it appears your genes listed are different to mine. I only listedthe 2 pathways affected by valium since thats what I take. Im not sure what drugs yours might have any effect on. But intermediate is a good word to see!

[[Ho...]]

Who has used liquid Valium from the pharmacy to taper? I'm at 7.5 mg and the cuts are getting harder. I would like to move to 0.25 mg cuts soon and I have the choice of using a scale or using the prescription liquid for part of my dose (pdoc wrote me a script which I have not filled yet). Just want your thoughts on how liquid worked for you. I'm still not really keen on microtapering but I'm not completely ruling it out.

[[Al...]]

Hope76,

 

I use liquid but make it myself. I dont have any experience with the pharmacy liquid but if you ever want advise on making your own I can help with that.

 

I tried micro taper twice and both times I was not happy with the results. I would go along fine for a few days then wham out of the blue I would get hit hit with sxs.

 

In as much as a cut & hold can be somewhat more predictable, I opted for that. The devil I know as opposed to well, you know how it goes.

 

Peace & Healing

 

ATU

[[Ki...]]

We are still at the same pace and place Hope! I wish you continued good progress and hope you get some good ideas from those with that experience.

[[Ho...]]

We are still at the same pace and place Hope! I wish you continued good progress and hope you get some good ideas from those with that experience.

 

Are you using a scale for your microcuts Kitty, or liquid tapering? I'm with ATU, I just want to deal with the devil I know. With cut and hold I at least know what to expect.

[[bu...]]

Who has used liquid Valium from the pharmacy to taper? I'm at 7.5 mg and the cuts are getting harder. I would like to move to 0.25 mg cuts soon and I have the choice of using a scale or using the prescription liquid for part of my dose (pdoc wrote me a script which I have not filled yet). Just want your thoughts on how liquid worked for you. I'm still not really keen on microtapering but I'm not completely ruling it out.

 

After experiencing significant sxs doing a C&H from 15mg down to 9mg, and failing 3 times to get down to 8.5, I started my DLMT with Rx liquid V.  I successfully tapered off and had only occasional, mild sxs. 

 

A DLMT is the most tolerable method of tapering, and Rx liquid is the easiest, most reliable way to use liquid.

[[Ho...]]

Who has used liquid Valium from the pharmacy to taper? I'm at 7.5 mg and the cuts are getting harder. I would like to move to 0.25 mg cuts soon and I have the choice of using a scale or using the prescription liquid for part of my dose (pdoc wrote me a script which I have not filled yet). Just want your thoughts on how liquid worked for you. I'm still not really keen on microtapering but I'm not completely ruling it out.

 

After experiencing significant sxs doing a C&H from 15mg down to 9mg, and failing 3 times to get down to 8.5, I started my DLMT with Rx liquid V.  I successfully tapered off and had only occasional, mild sxs. 

 

A DLMT is the most tolerable method of tapering, and Rx liquid is the easiest, most reliable way to use liquid.

 

Builder,

 

Did the prescription liquid V bother your stomach? I've got a sensitive stomach and have heard of some people having problems. Did you mix pills with liquid initially or transfer to all liquid at the 9 mg mark? Did you require an updose when switching to liquid or notice that it wasn't as potent as your pills? I'm terrified of changing things and getting even worse 

 

Hope

[[bu...]]

 

Builder,

 

Did the prescription liquid V bother your stomach? I've got a sensitive stomach and have heard of some people having problems. Did you mix pills with liquid initially or transfer to all liquid at the 9 mg mark? Did you require an updose when switching to liquid or notice that it wasn't as potent as your pills? I'm terrified of changing things and getting even worse 

 

Hope

 

I never had any problem whatsoever with liquid V.

 

I don't know exactly how your doing your taper, or what your dosage is, but I took a combo if tablets and liquid, with most of my dose from tablets.  i never took more than 1ml/day of Rx liquid.  How much distress could 1ml actually cause?

 

I'm terrified of changing things and getting even worse

 

I really do understand that, but I hope you're not offended when I tell you that your fear is the greatest source of your problems.

[[Ho...]]

 

Builder,

 

Did the prescription liquid V bother your stomach? I've got a sensitive stomach and have heard of some people having problems. Did you mix pills with liquid initially or transfer to all liquid at the 9 mg mark? Did you require an updose when switching to liquid or notice that it wasn't as potent as your pills? I'm terrified of changing things and getting even worse 

 

Hope

 

I never had any problem whatsoever with liquid V.

 

I don't know exactly how your doing your taper, or what your dosage is, but I took a combo if tablets and liquid, with most of my dose from tablets.  i never took more than 1ml/day of Rx liquid.  How much distress could 1ml actually cause?

 

I'm terrified of changing things and getting even worse

 

I really do understand that, but I hope you're not offended when I tell you that your fear is the greatest source of your problems.

 

As far as the distress caused by 1 ml, I suppose that would depend on the person. Some are more sensitive than others. If I do liquid I would only use 1 ml and combine with tablets like you did. I'm doing cut and hold right now, down to 7.5 mg, right now cutting every 4 weeks. Had to take some time off for two surgeries earlier this year. It's all in my signature. I'm not easily offended so don't worry. Unfortunately fear is part of the process. So I'm assuming you would taper down 1 ml of liquid to zero, then substitute 1 ml of liquid again while removing 1 mg of tablet, and so on? Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I've got the benzo brain today. So you felt your dose of 1 ml liquid and 1mg of  tablet were pretty equivalent (as in switching the liquid for tablet did not increase your withdrawal symptoms each time)?

[[bu...]]

I started DLMT from 9mg.  I took 8mg tablets, and the rest from liquid, and reduced the liquid each day.  When I was down to 8mg total, I took 7mg tablets, and the rest liquid, etc.

 

So my max dose of liquid was 1ml, and then got smaller each day.

[[Ho...]]

I started DLMT from 9mg.  I took 8mg tablets, and the rest from liquid, and reduced the liquid each day.  When I was down to 8mg total, I took 7mg tablets, and the rest liquid, etc.

 

So my max dose of liquid was 1ml, and then got smaller each day.

 

Ok that's what I thought. Just wanted to make sure I had it right. Thanks!

[[Ki...]]

We are still at the same pace and place Hope! I wish you continued good progress and hope you get some good ideas from those with that experience.

 

Are you using a scale for your microcuts Kitty, or liquid tapering? I'm with ATU, I just want to deal with the devil I know. With cut and hold I at least know what to expect.

Hope- scale, cutting .001 g off each time, every day or other day depending on what I feel like.  Its about a half mg every 5-6 weeks. I really cant see an advantage to switching to liquid. I just weigh a whole pill and a part of another in the morning then I take it later. It seems like liquid really wont be a lot easier than this, but maybe Im missing something. Which would be par for the course with me!