Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Le...]]

Hi all, I am new to this support group.  I was withdrawing from Cl. for 8 months and got stalled at 0.5 mg/day.  So, a few weeks ago I switched over to V - took about 4 weeks.  I came in at 8 mg - it was supposed to be 10 mg but once I cut out the Cl. I was at 8 mg and decided to leave it be. 

 

I am trying to determine where I am at in terms of a therapeutic dose?

1) What is the minimum daily prescribed dose for V - I have scoured the internet for answers and not a one mentions an actual daily dose.  They generally say: 2-10 mg; 4 times daily.  Does this mean the total dose for the lowest prescriptions is 8 mg, or 2 mg?

 

I realize there are extenuating factors such as length of use, and personal biochemistry, etc., so this may all be meaningless. 

 

The reason I am asking is that I cant tell if there is any effect at all, or of I am now in a mostly psycholigical realm now.  Even my GP, who is very helpful, though a bit ignorant of the process, thought that the 1 mg of cl (20 mg of V) was a relatively low dose. 

 

So, is eight mg per day a low dose, or even a therapeutic dose by any normal measure.

 

2 mg is the lowest prescribed tablet. I weigh 120 lbs and was prescribed 5 mg of Valium every 8 hrs as needed for muscle spasm after a leg surgery a few yrs ago. I would break it in half and take 2.5 mg at night with relief of spasm. This was only for a week or two and before I became tolerant to benzos. I have currently tapered down to 8.5 mg of Valium from 15 mg and the dose is not therapeutic at this point, it only keeps me out of withdrawals.

 

So, basically I am taking it now to minimize withdrawal effects, and not much other reason.  Not sure if this should embolden me with confidence or scare the beejeebers out of me. 

 

I got my GP to prescribe 2 mg tabs.  It seems not many use a dose this low.  I am the only person asking for 2 mg tabs at a very busy local pharmacy.  They had to order in a bottle just for me.  Kind of special in sick sort of way.   

My doctor prescribes 2mg pills to make it easier to taper so I get 180 2mg pills every month. My current dose is 10mg so you're not alone in using only 2mg pills. The pharmacy does have to scramble to find that many lol. It was my doctor's idea to do it this way.  --V

Same here. My doctor prescribes 2 mg pills. I metabolize the drug rapidly so I need to dose 4xs a day. The 2mg pills are a lifesaver. 

[[Le...]]

I just wanted to pop in and write a quick update. My cut to 1 mg was a little rough in the first couple of days but has been quite smooth since then. I am hot and sweaty, alternating with cold and sweaty, but that's the only symptom I'm really dealing with right now! It's annoying for sure, but I can handle it!

 

My anxiety has definitely increased, but I think it's just natural anxiety returning. It's not panic attack level anxiety at all. I still haven't left the house since my vertigo attacks except for a few walks around the neighborhood. Not necessarily a big deal because I work from home and my partner has been doing the grocery shopping, so I AM busy and active, just not out and about in the world, you know? And I'm on my feet all day since I work at a standing desk. But I do feel really anxious about actually getting back in the car and driving. I've got my fingers crossed that I'll be able to go out to dinner on Wednesday for our 20th anniversary. I really, really want to. I hope I can do it!

 

We did have company over on Saturday night and it was so fun! We honestly haven't had anyone over in a couple of years. We'd let our house get quite cluttered and we let that be an awful excuse to not invite anyone over. My partner's sister and her husband came over to carve pumpkins with us for Halloween, and we had the best time. We watched some funny TV shows and had a great dinner. It felt like old times and I had ZERO anxiety the whole time. I did have some rebound anxiety the next day, which is typical for me after anything social. But not bad.

 

I'm still working full days and even taking on some creative projects around the house that I had been putting off. Oh, and switching to one dose daily instead of two has been really freeing! I thought it would scare the hell out of me but it was a total non-event. I'm so ready to have ZERO doses per day!

 

I'm of course worried about the vertigo returning as I cut lower, but overall I have a really good feeling about everything and I feel like I can handle whatever comes. The only thing I REALLY don't want to have to deal with is any type of medical procedure or dental procedure, so I'm avoiding both until the benzos are out of my system. I hope destiny/fate/etc is with me on that one, because the emergency appendectomy during my Ativan taper was a major wrench in the gears of that whole process. Hell, I'd have been off by now if that wouldn't have happened!

 

But anyway, just wanted to let you all know that things are still going well here! This has felt like such a long process, but when I look back on it, it was pretty quick! I'm still super glad that I heeded your advice to slow down, and I know I will literally be dumping powder into my mouth for that last 0.25 mg dose (I mean, even the best pill cutter can't handle cutting a quarter of a Valium tablet in half without crushing it!), but I think it'll make things easier on me and I'm actually feeling anticipation about getting to that point. I've been a scaredy cat all my life and you guys have really helped me to be brave with something that completely terrified me. Especially considering the fact that health anxiety is what brought me to benzos to begin with!

 

So THANK YOU. Wishing you all the strength you've given me!

SandP, that is wonderful news! Also encouraging to hear that you are dealing with your original anxiety in a healthier way. 

[[Ja...]]

Sorry I keep posting frantic posts.

Having a rough go and frantically trying to figure out what to do while keeping my work in tact. I see that may not be possible

I feel like I am heading into acute at 1mg suddenly

Last week was ok

I was "normal"

Even yesterday managed to have quite an ok day

Shaky

Today full body terror, burning shaking - totally what I felt in acute

Not quite Akathesia but I ended up walking over an hour. Pacing , dry mouth, PVC all over the place. I am feeling quite desperate and ready to throw in the towel and Go to detox for the last 1mg

It's clear to me that my nervous system is not even close to healing from my cold turkey then fast taper and previous usage kindling etc

I am very scared. This is already harder than the last two times where I was completely ignorant

I fear for my health bc I went to cardiologist today who confirmed PVC every 5 seconds. He is checking magnesium as mine was dangerously low at 0.2 in cold turkey

What should I do?

Anyone know of "good" detox?

I have a session w baylissa tomorrow I just am not feeling clear to even think

Doctor of course recommends going up to 1.5 and tonight I took 100 mg of neurontin

Desperate. This is totally not manageable and I don't think I am being dramatic. Last weeks I was uncomfortable but not like this. This is scary. Mostly w heart palps. My pneumonia and virus triggered something bad and I was doing SO well before at 1.5 so confident I was going to make it.

Pls Lmk your thoughts

Sorry for these frantic posts.

[[ed...]]

Hi Jackson!

 

No need to ever apologize on these forums because you are feeling frantic and need to post. That's why this site and your Buddies are here.  I'm with you on feeling acute. I was doing rather well early yesterday and had stabilized finally at 2mg. Last night my system just went off (while receiving a massage). The sx have only grown in intensity all through the day today.  I was in full blown fight or flight terror mode with teeth clacking cold shakes. Had to jump in the shower with scalding hot water for 20 minutes to elevate my temp.  So I feel where you're coming from.  I was ready to start cutting huge amounts to just get off until some friends talked me down off the ledge. 

 

Just get through tonight.  There is always hope in tomorrow. Then you'll have your session and you can ask all the questions you may have.  Some feel like it is a bad thing to go to detox, but from 1mg, I don't see the harm providing they have actual doctors supervising you to make sure you're medically safe.  But give things a while longer.  That's what I'm going to do.

 

All the best,

Ed

[[bl...]]

Hi All: I'm not sure I'm in the right place. I was in the Klonopin club for some time and once I got down to .25 my physical symptoms, mostly hand pain and feeling of swelling, was so bad that after countless tests I went to psychopharmacology dr who crossed me over to 10 mg of Valium.  My symptoms went away overnight which was reassuring as if spent countless days disease surfing for what underlying condition might be! I've cut down to 6.5 of Valium but every time I try to go lower now the hand and arm stiffness returns and while I know it doesn't sound bad, it is! The pain and sensation of tightness and blood rushing into right hand/arm wakes me up every night. So, now what?  I've been holding for 4 months. I've got to keep going but how? Any advice? Has anyone experienced this? It's so scary and it makes me so anxious.  Thanks for listening.

[[Le...]]

Hi Jackson, try to get through tonight and see how it goes with Baylissa tomorrow. I know how horrible and frantic you feel. I was CT'd in 2014 and had to reinstate. Because of the kindling I would not recommend going to a detox center for the last 1mg. My personal opinion is that it will cause more harm in the long run. Slowing down your taper may be your best option.

 

You mentioned you were feeling better last week, have you made a cut since then?

 

I too had dangerously low magnesium after being CT'd. It's a sign of a stressed CNS.

[[so...]]

I spoke too soon. Vertigo returned tonight, my anxiety is off the charts, I'm having heart palpitations worse than I've ever had before, and I managed to have an argument with my partner over telling me to "try harder" to not have anxiety over all this. It was pure chemical fear tonight, there's no trying harder when that happens. I'm so dizzy that I can't imagine working tomorrow and I can't foresee going out to dinner now. I'm so sad.

 

I'm trying so hard to keep it together when the bad moments come, but it's so difficult to go from feeling almost normal to being stuck in bed again. I know it's temporary (or at least I hope it is, I mean I did have vertigo problems pre-benzos so I won't really know for a while). But I feel so overwhelmed. I've got a new project starting sometime this week (hopefully not Tuesday because I think I'm down for the count) and bills to pay. Life does not stop for this. Yet it does.

 

Well, I can't put a positive spin on it tonight. I just can't. I know it's all par for the course but tonight I'm angry and hurting. Not just about benzos but about all the health problems I've had in the past five years. I'm just tired of the struggle and I miss the old me. All the things I took for granted.

 

Even when times are good, like they were on Saturday and even just a couple of hours ago when I was writing that, it's always just a lull before I get pulled into the bad times again. Every time I start to feel safe, my world spins. Literally and figuratively. God, please let this all be benzo related. Please let it go away when I'm done. I know things will never be perfect but is solid ground too much to ask for? I guess it is. :'(

[[Jo...]]

Almost everbody that's using pills to taper uses 2mg tablets.  The smaller dose tablets make it easier to do small cuts.  You can cut them in half, so you can do 1mg cuts, or some folks even cut them into quarters and do .5mg cuts.

 

According to your siggy, your actual dose is 10mg.

 

I need to update that. The plan was to come across at 10 mg V - equate to 0.5 Cl.  I increased the V to 8mg and then just stopped the Cl.  Things were okay so I have stayed at 8 mg V.  Update pending.

[[Sh...]]

I spoke too soon. Vertigo returned tonight, my anxiety is off the charts, I'm having heart palpitations worse than I've ever had before, and I managed to have an argument with my partner over telling me to "try harder" to not have anxiety over all this. It was pure chemical fear tonight, there's no trying harder when that happens. I'm so dizzy that I can't imagine working tomorrow and I can't foresee going out to dinner now. I'm so sad.

 

I'm trying so hard to keep it together when the bad moments come, but it's so difficult to go from feeling almost normal to being stuck in bed again. I know it's temporary (or at least I hope it is, I mean I did have vertigo problems pre-benzos so I won't really know for a while). But I feel so overwhelmed. I've got a new project starting sometime this week (hopefully not Tuesday because I think I'm down for the count) and bills to pay. Life does not stop for this. Yet it does.

 

Well, I can't put a positive spin on it tonight. I just can't. I know it's all par for the course but tonight I'm angry and hurting. Not just about benzos but about all the health problems I've had in the past five years. I'm just tired of the struggle and I miss the old me. All the things I took for granted.

 

Even when times are good, like they were on Saturday and even just a couple of hours ago when I was writing that, it's always just a lull before I get pulled into the bad times again. Every time I start to feel safe, my world spins. Literally and figuratively. God, please let this all be benzo related. Please let it go away when I'm done. I know things will never be perfect but is solid ground too much to ask for? I guess it is. :'(

 

I know that feeling (the part I bolded). When I was doing the cut and hold, the absolute worst feeling in the world for me was being in a shocking wave after a cut, and then knowing that this would just have to be repeated again and again the lower I went. It takes all kind of courage and mental toughness to get through this. I know you're really struggling atm but from everything I've read you've done very well. So keep trusting your body and mind that you will continue to do well until the end.

[[Ma...]]

Solaceandpeace,

 

I know you will pull thru this.  The unpredictablity is the terrifying part.. We are the chosen ones to "live in moment"  .we are chosen because we are forced to do this to keep our sanity.  Any projection of future or "what if" will be spit back into our faces .  Maybe we will help others of this someday.  I struggle daily with this.  Having this group helps.  I know you will do the exact thing to comfort your body.

 

My 20 year anniversary is sat.  No celebration planned. Sitting in a room together in peace is good enough now.

[[so...]]

Thank you Shamo and Magnolis. And happy early anniversary, Magnolis! Isn't that something that two of us in this particular thread are having our 20 year anniversaries in the same week?

 

I'm really freaked out tonight. I had a great day. Felt relatively normal and got about 80% of the day's work done. But tonight I'm shaky and having crazy anxiety and depression. Panicky depression. It feels way too similar to the DR/DP I had last year, or to the way I felt before it anyway. Life feels huge and scary. I'm just trying to make it through this moment and I fear how much worse it can get if even this is so hard for me.

 

I can handle the physical symptoms so well but when these mental ones happen, I lose it. And truthfully I wonder if this is just what life feels like without benzos and I've just forgotten because it's been so long. I don't like knowing that this feeling is always just a second away, that I can suddenly be struck with this even when things are good.

 

I wish I had a time machine to go back and never take that first Ativan tablet. Hell, the first Valium tablet even. Because I am literally back where I was during the failed portion of my first Ativan taper. So I might as well have just plunged on through the torment and at least I'd be done by now. I thought the crossover would let me avoid this nightmare part.

 

I hate even reading the words as I type them. I hate that these are my thoughts. My partner keeps telling me that I've been like this before and it always passes, but I don't remember any other time except right before my crossover. Well, I mean I guess I was like this last night. And yeah, it passed, but it also came back. It is hard for an optimist to handle this dark cloud.

[[ed...]]

Thank you Shamo and Magnolis. And happy early anniversary, Magnolis! Isn't that something that two of us in this particular thread are having our 20 year anniversaries in the same week?

 

I'm really freaked out tonight. I had a great day. Felt relatively normal and got about 80% of the day's work done. But tonight I'm shaky and having crazy anxiety and depression. Panicky depression. It feels way too similar to the DR/DP I had last year, or to the way I felt before it anyway. Life feels huge and scary. I'm just trying to make it through this moment and I fear how much worse it can get if even this is so hard for me.

 

I can handle the physical symptoms so well but when these mental ones happen, I lose it. And truthfully I wonder if this is just what life feels like without benzos and I've just forgotten because it's been so long. I don't like knowing that this feeling is always just a second away, that I can suddenly be struck with this even when things are good.

 

I wish I had a time machine to go back and never take that first Ativan tablet. Hell, the first Valium tablet even. Because I am literally back where I was during the failed portion of my first Ativan taper. So I might as well have just plunged on through the torment and at least I'd be done by now. I thought the crossover would let me avoid this nightmare part.

 

I hate even reading the words as I type them. I hate that these are my thoughts. My partner keeps telling me that I've been like this before and it always passes, but I don't remember any other time except right before my crossover. Well, I mean I guess I was like this last night. And yeah, it passed, but it also came back. It is hard for an optimist to handle this dark cloud.

 

I'm right with you SandP. Same scary feelings after managing okay until recently. I just need to follow my own advice to others: This will pass. This is temporary. You will heal.  It may not feel like it right now, but somehow, someway we will get through this.  I'm trying to accept what is going on and praying to stabilize. I'll do the same for you.

 

:smitten:

Ed

[[so...]]

Thank you, Ed. I am hanging in there. I felt the cloud lift a little bit shortly after writing that message but it's still a tough night with dizziness and vertigo. I just feel very far away from everything in general. I prayed so hard that these mental symptoms would skip over me because I'm such a mess with them. I know so many tough people including all of you here, and I just feel like a total weakling with this. Just incapable. But I will try to borrow some strength from you. I really, really appreciate the prayers and words of comfort from all of you. I could never have even started this taper let alone faced the end of it without having this place to go. I hope you all know how appreciated you are.

 

[[ed...]]

Thank you, Ed. I am hanging in there. I felt the cloud lift a little bit shortly after writing that message but it's still a tough night with dizziness and vertigo. I just feel very far away from everything in general. I prayed so hard that these mental symptoms would skip over me because I'm such a mess with them. I know so many tough people including all of you here, and I just feel like a total weakling with this. Just incapable. But I will try to borrow some strength from you. I really, really appreciate the prayers and words of comfort from all of you. I could never have even started this taper let alone faced the end of it without having this place to go. I hope you all know how appreciated you are.

 

 

You stole the words right out of my mouth. When the duty hits the fan, we're all scared. We all feel small. We all wonder if it will end.  You are not alone. We'll all get through this together.

 

God bless,

Ed

[[Gr...]]

Hi SandP and Edzo, I'm sorry you guys are being hit in a rough wave right now. I know in the middle of it, it's hard to remember ever not feeling this bad or imagine ever feeling better again. Praying it lifts for you soon. As stated above, this will pass. SandP, you are sooo close to being off, just a few more cuts to go. Don't freak out about the next cut yet, you have another six days to stabilize before then, just concentrate on riding out this moment. Edzo, I hope you get some rest tonight. Maybe just try to stay warm and use some heating pads on your muscles, I think that massage you had went too deep on some of the muscles and triggered a bad reaction. Benzo wd makes our muscles all tight and quivery so be gentle with them.

[[so...]]

SandP, you are sooo close to being off, just a few more cuts to go. Don't freak out about the next cut yet, you have another six days to stabilize before then, just concentrate on riding out this moment.

 

Thank you so much, that particular way of wording it really got through to me! You are so right. I can do this. And it is just a wave. It's not the end of the world even if it feels like it at the time. I'm gonna be OK eventually, and it's OK not to be OK right now.  Thank you!

[[fr...]]

  To all,  I pray you all have a better dday.  Solace, you have come so far, you should be proud.  Maybe have to hold alittle longer or slow down some.  No sense messing it all up now.  I wish I were on a small dose such as you all.  Anyway just wanted to say hang in there, you are all doing so well and I am praying also. 

[[ka...]]

Hi All: I'm not sure I'm in the right place. I was in the Klonopin club for some time and once I got down to .25 my physical symptoms, mostly hand pain and feeling of swelling, was so bad that after countless tests I went to psychopharmacology dr who crossed me over to 10 mg of Valium.  My symptoms went away overnight which was reassuring as if spent countless days disease surfing for what underlying condition might be! I've cut down to 6.5 of Valium but every time I try to go lower now the hand and arm stiffness returns and while I know it doesn't sound bad, it is! The pain and sensation of tightness and blood rushing into right hand/arm wakes me up every night. So, now what?  I've been holding for 4 months. I've got to keep going but how? Any advice? Has anyone experienced this? It's so scary and it makes me so anxious.  Thanks for listening.

 

I experience something very similar as well, for me it can mean that i need to hold tapering and allow brain to catch up. Or if i have been holding a while it means it is time to resume my MT. I can not read your sig from here and wondered if you are MT or c/h or what? did you complete the c/o to valium?  others will chime in as well with thoughts. sorry you are having such pain.

[[bl...]]

Hi Kasey:

Thanks for response. I was on 1 mg of Klonopin for 20 yrs-since 19 yrs of age!!! I had no idea 1 mg of K was equal to 20 mg of valium. I was shocked! I began tapering last fall and once I hit to .25 my hands and feet were so bad I had dr cross me over to Valium--10mg which I've been cutting and holding for a few months. I'm now at 6.5 but s/x in hands are so bad every time I try and go any lower! I am sure I must have RA or something. And the blood rushing feeling--UGH! Awful. I had a glass of wine last night and that helped but I know that's a no no b/c alcohol works on same receptors so I am hoping this is just a Central Nervous System thing but it's just sooooo bad. And while my feet have improved, it's almost worse in arms/hands---other that I have night time headaches and vision issues---but my insomnia (which is why I started taking this crap all those years ago) is okay. But what to do about these stiff/swollen feeling hands? Have you found anything helps?Is yours bad at night too? Thanks for responding. I really appreciate it!!!

[[bl...]]

Kasey:

And yes--I am off the Klonopin now and only on the valium at 6 1/2. I dry cut and hold. Liquid titration sounds too complicated and I thought with 2mg valium tabs I could do taper w/out getting into it. But.....

[[fr...]]

  I also have awful burning in feet and now lower legs.  Also in UT area, Ugh what a place to burn and my tongue also.  The UT area and tongue comes and goes but the feet is now pretty much always there. Dr. has just updosed me to 15 mg.  I hate it.  They also push gabapentin and other drugs at me but I have resisted.  It has become unbearable for me so at this point I'm just updosing and seeing if it helps.  I can't live like this. So sorry you are having this also.  I went from 20 mg to 13 and it was a fight to get there so it is heartbreaking to me to updose but I can't take it anymore.  HOpe you can get some relief. 

[[la...]]

I am SO dizzy and woozy. feel like I am rocking when sitting still....been told by neurologist its MAV  (migraine associated vertigo)  Was just wondering if any of you have had this be your #1 complaint.  I see on the dizziness thread these ppl are all off the drugs and suffering

 

 

I also am being told that I have Lyme....I have herniated discs in neck too

 

I held for 5 months and there was NO CHANGE at all so resumed tapering (C&H)

 

so since last Dec. when I c/o to V  I took a cut right then, was on 1.25mgs lorazepam and only c/o to 8.5mgs V

 

since then I am now at 4.5mgs and I am still as woozy and dizzy as ever...

 

I am seeing an infectious disease specialist Monday...because I also have had low grade fevers and swollem lymph nodes on and off

 

so I go back and forth wondering if this could be benzos or not.

Dr says "NO"

Naturopath says "NO"

Neurologist says "NO"

 

but I still wonder

 

at this point I would go on any amount of benzos if it would stop this dizziness...I am so bad that I fell on sunday and broke base of my thumb!!!  Thank God I probably will not need surgery but have it splinted

 

Its hard for me to drive or walk anymore

 

just seems to severe to be only benzos

[[fr...]]

  Who knows Lainey.  I don't think they really know.  It could be all benzo related.  I don't know if my symptoms are from them or something else.  So far I only updosed to 14 and I feel worse but its only been 5 days.  So so scared and I'm sorry you are also going through such a bad time.  I don't even know if there is anywhere we can go to see if they have experts in this stuff that could at least give us some hope.  I pray one day we will all be better. 

[[ka...]]

Free - thank you for chiming in and helping bluepill. I had thought of you when I read Bluep post.  I certainly wish i had an answer that would provide relief, sorry Bluep. ( i know when my hormone is off, i get relief when i am able to tweak that therapy. But HRT is not for everyone, venture cautiously)

Free may have the answer you are looking for. As hard as it is to except the fact - sometimes we find relief when we up dose a bit and level off. Something to consider.

Free - our sweet friend,  I pray that your small ( tho it seems large) updose helps! I truly bet it will.

Lainey - WHAT in the world!  I agree with Free - so much is attributed to these benzo's and physicians have no idea they are the cause of so much anguish, they wreak havoc in our entire body. on my knees for you  

[Guest [Fu...]]

I've been on Klonopin for several years now and began my daily liquid MT of February of this year at 2.5 mg's. I'm coming up on 1.5 mg's and I am struggling so badly that I am really considering crossing over to Valium. I know it won't make a huge difference but I have talked to several people who made the crossover and are at least doing better on the V than the K. The only problem is that I cannot find a prescriber who is willing to work with me on the crossover. The NP who I see was willing to switch me over to V but she said since it's "a stronger benzo" that she would only give me a very small dosage even after I explained how I needed the equivalent dosage of the K that I was on. I think these prescribers are reticent to give out V to begin with and when they see such a high number of the Ashton equivalency they definitely would not be on board with that. Have any of you had this problem?

 

Also in general have any of you here switched over from Klonopin to Valium and if so has it made things at least a little bit more bearable? I'm really scared as I am basically bed ridden at this point due to dizziness, constant DP/DR, panic attacks, agoraphobia, insomnia and many other symptoms. I was hoping a slow taper would at least be manageable but for the past few months it really hasn't been and I'm just breathing through the days listening to relaxation tapes and trying to find a prescriber who will work with me on at least trying a Valium crossover.