Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[ed...]]

Does anyone have an idea regarding at what dose it is okay to exceed 10% cuts? We'd never finish if the 10% threshold was never crossed.

 

Thanks,

Ed

I remember someone saying on the cut & hold thread percentages don't make much difference once you hit 2mg and below. Obviously mileage may vary. I'm planning to cut .25mg all the way down if possible.

 

I hope to do my cuts in a similar fashion. But, as they say, the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.

[[ed...]]

Edzo,  , I like your mind set! Maybe I will try cutting .05 again . But also hold a bit longer, till more side effects diminish.  If the side effects are the same, I might as well go for it.

I'm just afraid  of getting some of the side effects that I ve read about that I have not gotten....yet!

I don't think I could stand to have vertigo, or be nauseous all day long.

Right now my worst sfx are horrible neck and low back pain, and parathesia shakes throughout my body. Trust me. That is bad enough!

I guess I won't make up my mind until the time comes! I am sooooo indecisive! And scared!

 

Heeathcliff

 

Heath,

 

It's natural to be afraid in this situation. Most, if not many, of us are at one point or another.  The one bit of advice I can offer you is that this is all temporary.  Rather than fear what might happen, accept it.  Fear only feeds the side effects. Even if you get the really nasty sx, and I have, you'll be surprised at how strong you really are and what your mind and body can handle.  There have been times during this taper where I spent the night crying on my knees due to physical and mental torture. But guess what? Here I am. Still working through it; still moving forward. You can do this. It can be frightening and even daunting, but you'll get through it all and have your life back.

 

Best,

Ed

[[Al...]]

Heath,

 

Edoz8 gave some great advise. Acceptance is key to getting through each cut and torture.

I am always telling myself, it will get better with time and that more than anything else is what works best, better than any suppliments, better than any home remedy, better than anything TIME is what heals us.

 

To answer your question as to when I know I am ready for my next cut,..well, I don't follow a specific schedule. I usually cut every 30 days or there abouts.

I monitor daily in a log my sxs, my Blood Pressure and my blood oxygenation levels. If any of those are out of sorts I wait until they seem stable.

Remember I have been to ER for passing out due to low BP. I spent a week in Hospital for what was called a small bowel obstruction though no reason could be found. It was in my mind all about tapering. So I'm a little Leary about cutting too fast for my old body.

But I know I must do this and as long as my GP keeps on side and does not try to rush me, I'm going to keep going the way I am going.

I have found recently that I really have to focus on coping skills to maintain my normalness if I can use that description.

Acceptance, time and staying positive is what I think will get us all to the finish line.

 

Stay well !

 

 

ATU

[[He...]]

Enzo and ATU,

Thanks for your replies. I'll read them again and again when I am in despair.

 

You make sense and your posts are so very kind and compassionate. I do so appreciate you both.

 

What it boils down to I guess is.... I HAVE TO be strong, not give up, remember that this WILL end one day!

And go as slow as I need to go.

 

Good luck with your tapers as well.

I see you have been through some tough times yourself. Enzo, crying on your knees sounds like me too! And ATU, I see you are cutting about .05 like I am trying to cut. I'll have to see what happens once I feel ready to cut again. 

When ever I hit difficult times, I kind of fall apart.

I am amazed at how You both sound so confident and unafraid. I hope I reach the point where I can be like that too.

 

Heath :smitten: :smitten:

[[Mi...]]

Buddies,

 

When I realized what was wrong with me (benzo tolerance withdrawal) about 20 months ago, I filed a complaint with our State Board of Healing Arts, which oversees physicians. This was about 18 months ago. I submitted all the info I could find about benzos and a long letter explaining that the psychiatrist who prescribed the benzos did NOT warn me about possible consequences. My case was to be reviewed by a panel of three doctors (I already knew the odds were against me). I got their final decision today. They found nothing wrong with his behavior.  I knew this was coming, but I'm still upset.

 

He probably told them he did warn me (I had to sign a waiver each time I saw him, saying I was "fully informed") or that my dosage was not high enough to be considered out of bounds (I always told him I was very sensitive to medications - but he kept increasing my dosage when I had problems; I never got above 1.2 mg. clonazepam - Klonopin - that's when I started realizing that the increase wasn't helping.)

 

So my being one of those people who is damaged by benzos is apparently no big deal. I guess I'm just a freak, so it's MY fault!  So he will go along having a happy life and damaging other people.

 

Yes, I know that this anger will only hurt me, but please don't tell me that, because I have to let it out now. That man ruined my life and nobody cares, except Benzo Buddies. Even my relatives (except my husband) and former friends tend to think I 'have a drug problem'.

 

Yes, I know life isn't fair. And people suffer worse than this. But I'm still NOT happy with this outcome and I feel even more violated. And more scared of doctors because they can damage me in the future, treating me as if I am the "norm" when I react to things differently.

 

Thanks for letting me vent.

 

MirandaJane

[[mr...]]

Mirandajane,

That is the typical response and why there are no huge lawsuits.

It is not how high your dose is but that the dosing goes beyond the 3 week warning on the package insert.

Drs are not held accountable because we recieve a package insert when we pick up the script.

In the hospital, we don't get a package insert, but we sign a release.

Everyone can write on the release things they don't want done.

I believe it was in the 1980s when Drs, such as Ashton, Lader and others tried to get benzo's banned, but they said there were too many people on them by then.

It makes my blood boil.

[[Ba...]]

I am reposting from withdrawal support group as I haven't received any responses.

Never stabilized please some feedback

 

I have been tapering since May 2015.  I was never able to stabilize.  I had attempted to taper in September 2014 from .5 mg of klonopin, was stable at that dose, cut twice, probably too much too fast (12.5% per cut), and ended up in a very bad way.  I held for about one and half months and then up dosed twice to my original dose.  The updoses didn't help at all, in fact I felt worse.  So about 6 weeks later, I decided to crossover to Valium.  I never stabilized on Valium and up dosed several times  until I got to 17 mg. and then held.  I did a proper crossover and a long hold to no avail, so I in May 2015 feeling very symptomatic with increased anxiety, ear issues, stomach issues, migraines etc. I decided to taper, and have been slowly chipping away.  At first I did cut and hold and now am micro tapering.  I am no worse off then at the start of my taper but have some very bad days and can't seem handle this ongoing pain at this juncture.  I do sometimes get a small break in the evenings, but am always anxious, jaw pain, tingling in legs, face and arms.  I had one large window (certainly not 100%) for about 5-6 weeks from the 9's to 8mg, then it started all over again.  I have held when things get very bad, but I really don't thing it does much good.

 

My biggest issues are any stressful situation makes me go into overdrive.  My body and mind can't cope.  I become focused on these situation (unfortunately a lot of stress over the past 2 months) and don't get relief until they are resolved and it even that minor relief takes a while to get to.  It feels that my mind just can't cope, and I feel sick, anxious with increased breathing and stomach issues.  I am one of the older members, live alone and find little support to help me through.  The worst of this is I believe even when I complete this nightmare, I am going to feel exactly the same, that this is my fate forever.  Any suggestions and comments would be much appreciated.

[[Mi...]]

Mrtmeo - Thanks for your response. My package insert said to use caution only if you had an addictive personality or were taking high doses, neither of which applied to me. Still, I asked my pdoc about addiction, and he said 'no problem.' Bullshit. 

 

And what do I do next time a doctor wants me to sign a waiver? Suppose I have to have surgery and the surgeon wants a waiver signed (they always do). He won't operate if I don't sign it. Yet, how do I know he's telling me the whole story? He should have to write down ever warning he's given me, then I'll sign it. But that won't happen, as he would be shocked if I asked and too scared of a lawsuit to do so.

 

Basha - I, too , never stabilized with cut and hold, and went to microtapering after crossing to Valium. I'm at 4.9 mg. daily now (after about 20 months) and have had bad symptoms all the way - physical and mental. I no longer drive my car, am terrified of everything, and often in various kinds of pain and fear. At 5.25 I started slowing my microtaper to .025 five times per week, holding twice per week. That has helped ease the sx some. Fortunately, my husband is able to run all the errands and help with housework when needed. I am age 67. I don't know how I would function without my  loving husband. I'm keeping on going, no matter the misery, because I have to get off the stuff. It ruined my stomach so badly that I was diagnosed with gastroparesis "slow stomach emptying," and went from 125 pounds to 100 in 3 months. I literally thought I would die. Doctors were no help for this. Now I have to eat mostly liquid meals six times per day. I practically live on milk, scrambled eggs and peanut butter, and have for about 18 months - but I've gained 10 pounds.

 

Anyway, I admire your ability to do this while living alone. Please keep trying. It's the only way out. And you are not the only one who does not "stabilize" and is suffering. I'm having a fairly good day today - some days I can't post at all. When it gets rough, I lie in bed and think "Relax and heal" or "GABA receptors heal," hoping my thoughts will give the receptors a boost. My mind strays (I never could meditate) but I keep pulling it back to healing. I don't know if it helps, but it can't hurt.

 

With buddy love,

MirandaJane

 

[[bu...]]

Basha-  You haven't said why you were originally Rx'd benzos, but remember, benzos only control symptoms, they do not cure or in any way  address the underlying disorder.  My guess is

 

1) You are still bothered by your original issues

 

2) Your updose has not given you relief because you have become tolerant to the therapeutic effect of the benzo.

 

3)  Your symptoms/discomfort are the result of the original disorder, NOT from withdrawal.

 

FWIW, your current sxs are exactly what was going on with me that before I started taken benzos, and other meds.

 

"My biggest issues are any stressful situation makes me go into overdrive.  My body and mind can't cope.  I become focused on these situation (unfortunately a lot of stress over the past 2 months) and don't get relief until they are resolved and it even that minor relief takes a while to get to.  It feels that my mind just can't cope, and I feel sick, anxious with increased breathing and stomach issues. "

[[mr...]]

MirandaJane,

You can write any requirements you want on the waiver that you sign.

If you don't want any psych meds, then you would write "I do not conscent to any psychiatric class medication"

I had the dr put on my mom's chart that she has an allergy to benzodiazepines.

 

 

[[Ba...]]

Builder

 

I had situational anxiety for about two weeks prior to going on benzos - but this is quite different.  Although it is anxiety is extremely amplified.  I want to get off benzos no matter what and I hope the anxiety will subside because it is so extreme.  I don't know what I can do if this is the way I will feel forever.  I feel I will never have a good life again.

 

Basha

[[Mi...]]

Thanks Mrtmeo. My family doctor, who is sympathetic and helping me through withdrawal, says that when I am done we will declare that I am "allergic" to benzos. But I was referring to waivers that may apply to other medications and procedures. Many others carry risks that we are not told about.

 

Love you all,

MirandaJane

[[mr...]]

Thanks Mrtmeo. My family doctor, who is sympathetic and helping me through withdrawal, says that when I am done we will declare that I am "allergic" to benzos. But I was referring to waivers that may apply to other medications and procedures. Many others carry risks that we are not told about.

 

Love you all,

MirandaJane

Again, you can write your specifications on the waiver and sign it.

[[He...]]

Hi all buddies,

 

I am at 1.2 mg Valium right now.

I am just about ready to make a .05 cut.

I get withdrawal side effects with even that small amount of a cut.

 

Last time I cut I did a micro taper of .01 for five days until I reached the cut of .05

I held only after I reached the .05

 

In my next cut I am thinking of doing a .05 cut all at once instead of dragging it out over a five day period.

I always hold after my cuts to listen to what my body is telling me.

 

In your experienced opinions, do you think cutting five days at  .01 is just wasting time and I should just cut .05 all at once and hold to see what happens?

Or do you think going .01 for five days will be making it easier on my brain?

 

Thanks for any insight and opinions you can give me.

 

Heathcliff

[[bu...]]

 

In your experienced opinions, do you think cutting five days at  .01 is just wasting time and I should just cut .05 all at once and hold to see what happens?

Or do you think going .01 for five days will be making it easier on my brain?

 

Thanks for any insight and opinions you can give me.

 

Heathcliff

 

.01 for 5 days will be easier than a single cut of .05.

 

Multiple tiny cuts are always more tolerable than a single larger cut.

[[ed...]]

Hi all buddies,

 

I am at 1.2 mg Valium right now.

I am just about ready to make a .05 cut.

I get withdrawal side effects with even that small amount of a cut.

 

Last time I cut I did a micro taper of .01 for five days until I reached the cut of .05

I held only after I reached the .05

 

In my next cut I am thinking of doing a .05 cut all at once instead of dragging it out over a five day period.

I always hold after my cuts to listen to what my body is telling me.

 

In your experienced opinions, do you think cutting five days at  .01 is just wasting time and I should just cut .05 all at once and hold to see what happens?

Or do you think going .01 for five days will be making it easier on my brain?

 

Thanks for any insight and opinions you can give me.

 

Heathcliff

 

Heath,

 

Every body reacts differently. The only way to find out how your body reacts is to just choose an option. Don't get paralyzed by options. Try it one way. If you don't like the result, try the other way.  By the way, I don't see how cutting .01 for 5 days in a row is "wasting time". Whether you cut it all at once or just incrementally, you'll still be down the same .05 after 5 days.

 

Best of luck,

Ed

[[ed...]]

 

In your experienced opinions, do you think cutting five days at  .01 is just wasting time and I should just cut .05 all at once and hold to see what happens?

Or do you think going .01 for five days will be making it easier on my brain?

 

Thanks for any insight and opinions you can give me.

 

Heathcliff

 

.01 for 5 days will be easier than a single cut of .05.

 

Multiple tiny cuts are always more tolerable than a single larger cut.

 

Builder, with all due respect, that hasn't always been the case for me (and many others). If there was a general consensus, there wouldn't be a matching cut and hold thread to go along with the micro taper thread. I've done it both ways and at points MT worked better, while at other points CandH worked better.

 

Respectfully,

Ed

[[so...]]

Builder

 

I had situational anxiety for about two weeks prior to going on benzos - but this is quite different.  Although it is anxiety is extremely amplified.  I want to get off benzos no matter what and I hope the anxiety will subside because it is so extreme.  I don't know what I can do if this is the way I will feel forever.  I feel I will never have a good life again.

 

Basha

 

The counselor I'm working with has given me repeated reminders not to prepare for disaster and that I cannot predict the future. It's easy to understand and harder to apply of course, but just keeping that in mind does help.

 

I do believe that our preexisting issues are amplified during withdrawal. Working on mindfulness and being present rather than worrying about the future... that's my focus right now.

 

As for me, I am cutting to 4 mg tomorrow, which I really fear because I've heard that 4 mg and below can be scary. I've been doing pretty well other than a few isolated incidents of high anxiety, but I was very dizzy and nauseated the last two evenings, and I'm returning to work tomorrow after a two-week vacation, so I'm a bit stressed, to say the least.

 

It was a wonderful vacation and I'm grateful to have had the time off. I really did relax when I wasn't having panic attacks, and that's something I haven't done in years. I made time for meditation and self care. Practiced my coping skills. Lost myself in TV shows and movies and books. It was needed and so nice.

 

The other thing that makes tomorrow's cut kind of major is that I'm going from 3x per day dosing to 2x per day. I don't necessarily have to but I want to let go of that midday psychological crutch. I hope I can handle it.

 

On that note, any tips for dizziness and nausea? My two least favorite symptoms (understatement!).

[[ed...]]

SandP,

 

I have to tell  you that my cuts below 4mg have been easier than my cuts down to 4mg. Just wanted to offer that.

 

Also, regarding nausea, the best thing I've found for it is a product called sea bands. Just elasticized wristbands with a small hard plastic knob that depresses into an acupuncture point. Available on amazon, nothing to ingest, and under $10. They were a life saver for me.

 

You're doing great on your taper. Nice job!

 

Best,

Ed

[[He...]]

Posting for my own progress (wishing you all well too). I just dropped .5 mg in 27 days. Very few if any Sx. Totally stoked and encouraged. It's been a very long road and I'm super proud that I stayed alive and hung in there for this. HM

[[so...]]

SandP,

 

I have to tell  you that my cuts below 4mg have been easier than my cuts down to 4mg. Just wanted to offer that.

 

Also, regarding nausea, the best thing I've found for it is a product called sea bands. Just elasticized wristbands with a small hard plastic knob that depresses into an acupuncture point. Available on amazon, nothing to ingest, and under $10. They were a life saver for me.

 

You're doing great on your taper. Nice job!

 

Best,

Ed

 

Thank you for sharing that! Just hearing that it was easier for you from 4 mg on down is a big relief to me. I know I can't predict how my experience will be, but my physical side effects have definitely been minimal, so I've got my fingers crossed that the rest of the journey won't be too hellish! (Perfect time to use that smiley, lol)

 

I had sea bands in the past for my motion sickness but they didn't do much for me. Maybe I'll give them another try. I'm a bit of a weird one with that... dramamine makes me SICKER. Nausea meds have too. Docs have a hard time dealing with my paradoxical reactions to meds. If only I'd had a paradoxical reaction to benzos, I wouldn't be going through this!

 

Thanks again for the hopeful message! It's appreciated!

[[fr...]]

  I'm another one who Sea Bands did nothing for.  Oh well, I can take the nausea med and it gives me relief but makes me so sleepy even 1/4 pill so I hate to take it.  Good luck on your taper, you are doing fine. 

[[Ho...]]

  I'm another one who Sea Bands did nothing for.  Oh well, I can take the nausea med and it gives me relief but makes me so sleepy even 1/4 pill so I hate to take it.  Good luck on your taper, you are doing fine. 

 

I've tried the Seabands too when I was pregnant and didn't think they helped. Maybe I could try them again. Free, what med do you take for nausea? I've been thinking about asking the doc for one that doesn't interact with Valium.

[[fr...]]

  He gave me Promethazine and also other one that goes under the tongue, forget the name.  I haven't tried that one because the side effects list serotonin syndrome so I'm too scared to try it.  I have 25mg. promethazine and take 1/4 and it really helps me.  Sometimes I try Emotrol, thats over the counter but its kind of sweet.  OH I just remember, Zofran, which a lot of others use also, I'm just so scared of anything new right now so I stick to the promethazine. 

[[la...]]

hey Free...have to update your sig...you cut!!!!