Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[mr...]]

Zofran (ondansetron) has been a life saver for my mom's nausea and vomiting.

[[Ju...]]

One more week and I should be at 2mg valium daily. My daily vodka and water titrations are working well. But once I'm at 2mg I really need to slow it down. My doctor makes me reduce half a mg every month but I have quite a bit of valium stockpiled especially so I can do this last 2mg slowly.

 

How slowly should I go? I currently reduce 50ml (half a mg of valium, half a mil of vodka, 50ml water) by 2ml daily and my symptoms are manageable enough most days. Mostly insomnia, anxiety and the occasional headache or nausea.

 

The anxiety is the worst one. Anxiety mixed with depression. It usually goes away when I take my dose, plus I've been taking occasional magnesium citrate or L-theanine on really bad days, and I know some people have mixed opinons on those supplements but I use them sparingly.

 

My main questions are:

What would be a good rate of reduction once I get to 2mg, and is this anxiety and depression a benzo thing because some days it's so intense I can't imagine being able to cope long term with it. I keep telling myself it's just withdrawl but I fear I'm wrong. It's the most intense fear I've ever felt. Like some days life is just a big black hole sucking me in.

[[so...]]

Thank you edzo and metmeo! I do have a bottle of 15 ondansetron pills. I LOVED Zofran in the hospital through the IV port. It was such a relief. I tried it orally at home once and felt so nauseated for the first 15 minutes thst I vowed never to take it again unless I REALLY needed it, plus the serotonin syndrome warning really freaked me out! But you reminded me that I do have that if I really need it, so thank you for that!

 

I think I'll *try* to stick to more natural remedies unless I'm really slammed by the nausea. The cannabis did completely knock the nausea out for the rest of the day and I'm still good now. I'm pretty impressed with that effect. It's instant. I just overdid it.

 

JustDoToday, I don't know about the reduction rate but I definitely have the same feeling at certain points on certain days. I never had depression otherwise (except for during real mourning), so I do believe it's a benzo thing. I had it both with the Ativan and now with the Valium. I also think there's a real component to it... sort of the fact that our eyes are suddenly opened to the truth of our lives now that we're less numbed out by benzos, and we're left to deal with whatever we've been numb to all this time. That's how I feel, anyway. But it's OK to feel how you feel, and it always is temporary. Always good to remember that. I hope I can remember it when I'm where you are in about two months!

[[ed...]]

JDIT,

 

I am not not yet where you are, so take my ideas FWIW to you.  Once one gets below 2mg, they are no longer taking in a therapeutic dose.  So you are basically just managing the exit from the drug.  Perhaps slow your current pace in half and see if you feel relief.  If you don't feel relief, this may be a situation where you simply have to "grin and bear it".  Hopefully that isn't the case. In all honesty, my anxiety has decreased over the past .5mg, but my nausea has ramped up.  Just goes to show how different we all are.

 

SandP,

 

Interesting paragraph about "our eyes are suddenly opened".  I was a practicing/functional alcoholic for nearly 20 years. When I finally needed to cut the cord on booze, I had an awful time. Well, by awful, I mean about 1/3 as bad as a bad day getting off of Benzos. Lol!  When I explained to my pdoc how bad my anxiety was from alcohol withdrawal, my pdoc made the following analogy:

 

"Picture yourself spending 20 years in a cave (CNS suppression via alcohol).  After twenty years, you decide to emerge (Quit alcohol).  Now the sun isn't especially bright, but it absolutely sears your eyes due to the fact that you haven't been exposed to it in so long.  In this case, your CNS is your eyes. The world is still the same, but you are no longer in a "cave" so to speak and feel especially overwhelmed and vulnerable."

 

Now, as many of us know, kicking booze is child's play compared to kicking benzos. However, I feel the above explanation applies to us as well--in an overly simplified manner.

 

--Ed

[[ed...]]

Almost forgot, Just Do It,

 

There's a thread on these boards for 3mg and under. I'd check that out as well.

 

All the best,

Ed

[[Ju...]]

Almost forgot, Just Do It,

 

There's a thread on these boards for 3mg and under. I'd check that out as well.

 

All the best,

Ed

 

Thanks Ed, I'll have a look at that. I really appreciate your reply and hope your week is going well

[[ba...]]

Hey Edzo, I really like that sun/booze/CNS/searing light!! analogy . Thanks!

[[Ki...]]

It is great and its literally true. Sunglasses are a lifesaver now! Funny how AA people ( like my husband, for example) think that nothing is worse to stop than alcohol. I cant make him understand- he says cant you just stop? Whats with this 2 year stuff?- I think theres something in AA that leads alcoholics to believe they have the toughest battles to fight. If only they could see/ feel/ hear what we do... I keep thinking of that " Bright light bright light" thing from the Gremlins movie!

[[ed...]]

As a recovered/recovering alcoholic, I can confirm that quitting benzodiazepines is infinitesimally more difficult. While alcohol provided plenty of anguish in the form of anxiety and shakiness, the worst of it didn't compare to what we have to endure on this journey. In fact, the biggest obstacle I faced was a longing for more booze. No way in Hel* I EVER want another benzodiazepine. So, not ALL alcoholics feel they had the roughest patch.  ;-)

 

Best,

Ed

[[bu...]]

It is great and its literally true. Sunglasses are a lifesaver now! Funny how AA people ( like my husband, for example) think that nothing is worse to stop than alcohol. I cant make him understand- he says cant you just stop? Whats with this 2 year stuff?- I think theres something in AA that leads alcoholics to believe they have the toughest battles to fight. If only they could see/ feel/ hear what we do... I keep thinking of that " Bright light bright light" thing from the Gremlins movie!

 

Yes, that is definitely a mantra in AA, and at most rehab/treatment facilities.

 

From a standpoint of withdrawal, alcohol is very easy to quit...did it dozens of times.  3-5 days shakes and puking, then your OK.  BTW, an alcoholic CANNOT  "taper off" of booze, the ONLY choice is stop cold turkey.

 

However, it is well known that booze is very hard to STAY off of.  I've been sober for almost 30 years, but there is still a vodka martini out there calling me.

[[Ki...]]

So booze is easier to quit but harder to stay away from and benzos are harder to quit and NO WAY IN HELL will I ever do this again. Got it 

Yes I should not have lumped all alkies in together, Im just pissed at my husband !

[[Mi...]]

Edzo - You say there's a thread on these boards for 3mg and under. But I can't find it. Can you give me a clue as to where it is? I've done a search, but the search requires three letters per word.

 

I'm at 5 mg. Valium, microtapering pharm liquid at .025 mg. per night, but as of last week holding twice per week as sx got so bad I could barely function. So I expect to get worse as I go lower. This is killing me. Another year, at least! Constant anxiety, depression, fear, nightmares, pain all over, agoraphobia, can't drive, lonely, despair, etc.

 

I guess the answer to 3 mg and under is to just go slower. Damn! But any guidance would be useful.

 

Thanks for any help and support,

MirandaJane

[[be...]]

Edzo - You say there's a thread on these boards for 3mg and under. But I can't find it. Can you give me a clue as to where it is? I've done a search, but the search requires three letters per word.

 

I'm at 5 mg. Valium, microtapering pharm liquid at .025 mg. per night, but as of last week holding twice per week as sx got so bad I could barely function. So I expect to get worse as I go lower. This is killing me. Another year, at least! Constant anxiety, depression, fear, nightmares, pain all over, agoraphobia, can't drive, lonely, despair, etc.

 

I guess the answer to 3 mg and under is to just go slower. Damn! But any guidance would be useful.

 

Thanks for any help and support,

MirandaJane

Here it is http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=151673.0

[[ed...]]

BeGood beat me to it!

 

MirandaJane,

 

I just wanted to mention that just because you are suffering horribly now, it doesn't mean you will the whole way off.  I was in some thread on here (don't remember where) where I discussed how difficult things were for me from 5.4mg to 4.2mg. I thought I'd NEVER get through that stretch.  But guess what? I did. I scratched, clawed, and cried my way through. I'll admit it was horrible. BUT, things have gotten better since then. I'm not saying things are a picnic or anything like that; but things are definitely better at 3.5mg than they were at 5mg.  My point is, don't EXPECT that things will get tougher because you just never know. In fact, I don't EXPECT that things will maintain their current level of difficulty for me the rest of the way. Perhaps it will get easier or maybe it will get just as difficult (or more difficult) as it was during the worst of it.  Regardless, you and I and almost all who are willing to work through this will beat it.

 

All the best,

Ed

[[bu...]]

 

I'm at 5 mg. Valium, microtapering pharm liquid at .025 mg. per night, but as of last week holding twice per week as sx got so bad I could barely function. So I expect to get worse as I go lower. This is killing me. Another year, at least! Constant anxiety, depression, fear, nightmares, pain all over, agoraphobia, can't drive, lonely, despair, etc.

 

 

Thanks for any help and support,

MirandaJane

  Why don't you lower your cut rate to .020mg/day?  Worsening sxs are usually an indication you are cutting too fast.

[[Mi...]]

Begood, Edzo and Builder - thank you! I hope I get better as I taper, but my body and mind have been getting worse, so I'm not optimistic (imagine that - not optimistic going through benzo withdrawal!)

 

Builder- it's hard to read the measurements on my syringe, so I don't think I could measure it at .020 nightly. My liquid is 1 ml = 1 mg. I like this because it's easy to keep track of, but as I get lower, I may have to have it mixed differently so I can measure the amounts more accurately.

 

Bad nightmares last night. High anxiety and depression now. And so much farther to go!

 

Thanks everybody and best wishes,

MirandaJane

[[bu...]]

 

 

Builder- it's hard to read the measurements on my syringe, so I don't think I could measure it at .020 nightly. My liquid is 1 ml = 1 mg. I like this because it's easy to keep track of, but as I get lower, I may have to have it mixed differently so I can measure the amounts more accurately.

 

 

Thanks everybody and best wishes,

MirandaJane

    But if you diluted it 9:1 with water then 1ml=.1mg,, and  you would measure .20 on your syringe, which is really easy. 

 

One of the most important advantages of using liquid is that you can dilute, and easily make very tiny, accurate dose reductions.

[[Mi...]]

Builder - thank you! As you can tell, I have serious brain fog. I used to be good at math.  Now I can barely remember when to take meds and how much. I'm not sure if I can dilute the pharm med with water. I may have to have the pharmacy give me a 1 ml.=.1 mg. solution. I don't want to mess it up.

 

MirandaJane

[[bu...]]

Builder - thank you! As you can tell, I have serious brain fog. I used to be good at math.  Now I can barely remember when to take meds and how much. I'm not sure if I can dilute the pharm med with water. I may have to have the pharmacy give me a 1 ml.=.1 mg. solution. I don't want to mess it up.

 

MirandaJane

  Yes, you definitely can dilute it with water.  In fact, the manufacturer's packaging probably states that it should be diluted.

 

My Rx liquid actually states "Dilute before using to enhance palatability".

 

All Rx benzos are either alcohol based or PG based.  Both can be further diluted with water, or other liquids, like fruit juice.

[[ed...]]

Has anyone developed gluten sensitivities while on Valium?  I had stayed gluten free for a chunk of time and my taper was moving along in a tolerable state. So tolerable, in fact, that I decided to reincorporate bread into my diet.  Well, within a day, my intestines felt inflamed, my gut was nauseous, my joints ached, my head was "spaced out". Basically, I felt like I had the flu.  Today, a couple of days later, symptoms are beginning to abate a touch.  I didn't show any rashes though nor did I have diarrhea , which seem to be common symptoms associated with gluten intolerance.  Of interest though is that bread had been a staple of my diet for my whole life and the first several months of my taper and there was never any issue.

 

Thanks for any and all input.

 

Best,

Ed

[[Vi...]]

Hi everyone

 

You can read my story here if you want: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=161595.0

 

I'm for one week now on 30mg Diazepam after switching from 2,5mg/day.

I just droped the Xanax and installed the Diazepam for it.

First few days have been horrible. ( and I mean horrible )

 

Now after a week I finally feel good and stable.

Of course that makes me happy but I still want to get rid of this drug.

 

My question is:

Is it too early to make the first cut like from 30mg->29mg / day?

I can easily do that as I have it as liquid drop bottle.

One drop is 0,5mg.

 

I would be grateful to hear from anyone

[[Ho...]]

Give yourself at least two weeks (many people wait a month) for the Valium to build up in your system before cutting, especially if you did a direct crossover.

[[Ju...]]

We're about in the same boat. Look at my signature down below;

I was able to make larger cuts in the beginning, then sort of hit a wall

and had to slow down. The brain needs time to heal.

It took me rocky month to cross over to valium, and I had

to go to 34mg V per day to stabilize before starting my taper.

So far, so good. Changing my poor dietary habits from the past

has been a big part of this.

Good luck,

-Justaman

 

[[ed...]]

Anyone ever get a revving of sx after a good workout?

 

Just wondering,

Ed

[[Ma...]]

Ed,

I was feeling more revved up after my protonix taper. There was one day I was speed walking and it revved me up even. I walked slower the next day even though feeling revved up and it was fine. Others do high impact workouts and are fine. With anything, we are all different and it changes throughout tapering for many. I am going to PM you later, but thought I would share that really quickly. I am off to yoga. Light exercise is best for me right now. The psych nurse practioner I work with now who does convention and functional medicine suggested a rebounder with a handle. My acupuncturist thought it was something to look into as well. I am going to look into it and will let you know if you want. I hope you have a nice day!

XO Maya