Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[so...]]

I have to start tapering tonight and I'm dreadfully confused. I have the spreadsheet but can't seem to find an actual guide to this liquid tapering. I dont have syringes yet and I dont even know what size to buy because I cant find a guide. I have 12.5 ml syringes from my grandmother back in the day, but they show units rather than ml. I also have a large syringe but it only shows cc and oz.

 

I'm looking at the new prescription that my doc wrote, which I wasn't going to fill until next month, but it says Valium 2 mg T tab. What the hell is a T tab? Is this even the same thing? Can I even do the liquid taper with this new prescription when I run out of what I have?

 

I'm wondering if I should just see if they'll fill the new prescription (different dosage, so they'll fill it, right?) and do a regular taper rather than the daily taper. So confused, so tired, so nervous.

[[Gr...]]

I'm not sure what a T tab is, but whenever you refill your Valium, make sure you stick with the same brand. When I was still on Xanax, the pharmacy gave me a different brand on a refill and I went into bad withdrawals even though I was taking the same dosage! My dr said generics can vary in potency up to 20%, so it's important to stay with same brand throughout your taper.

[[ed...]]

I'm not sure what a T tab is, but whenever you refill your Valium, make sure you stick with the same brand. When I was still on Xanax, the pharmacy gave me a different brand on a refill and I went into bad withdrawals even though I was taking the same dosage! My dr said generics can vary in potency up to 20%, so it's important to stay with same brand throughout your taper.

 

I wonder what the variance can be from lot to lot from the same manufacturer? Anyone have an idea?

[[Su...]]

Solace and peace. Totally understand your confusion and concern.  Hope you get some answers here you can understand.  Really thought am I the only one that has difficulty with this.  Good place to ask for answers.  I finally gave up and am going very slow.  Figuring whatever.  It's a shame because you do want to taper properly.  Hang in there!

[[fr...]]

  I don't think they are allowed to vary by 20% of the active ingredient but I could be wrong.  I know they can vary on the fillers but the med I always thought has to be pretty equivalent.  Someone who really knows, could you please clarify once and for all for us as it is a big worry.  20% variation will throw us all into w/d hell.  Thanks.  I do agree generics have some leeway but can't believe they would allow that much. What about like diabetes, heart meds etc? They wouldn't want you taking 20% less than you need so why should it be different for valium or any med for that matter.

[[so...]]

I'm not sure what a T tab is, but whenever you refill your Valium, make sure you stick with the same brand. When I was still on Xanax, the pharmacy gave me a different brand on a refill and I went into bad withdrawals even though I was taking the same dosage! My dr said generics can vary in potency up to 20%, so it's important to stay with same brand throughout your taper.

 

This, I thankfully knew about, and I am making sure to request the same brand from my pharmacy today and to make sure that they are the regular, scored, oral tablets. T tabs sounds like some kind of melt-on-your-tongue type deal, doesn't it? Probably some other medical abbreviation that won't make a difference, but I'm asking before I fill it, regardless.

 

Solace and peace. Totally understand your confusion and concern.  Hope you get some answers here you can understand.  Really thought am I the only one that has difficulty with this.  Good place to ask for answers.  I finally gave up and am going very slow.  Figuring whatever.  It's a shame because you do want to taper properly.  Hang in there!

 

At least we're not alone in this! I was really surprised to hear that the Ashton method recommends 1 mg reduction every two weeks at this stage, which is what my doc wants, so I'm feeling more brave about just cutting the pills and not doing the daily taper. I may live to regret it, but I can always switch to liquid later if it really gets bad. Trying not to assume the worst for now! You hang in there too! We can support each other on the way down.

 

Thanks everybody! I'm scared as heck but I'm so grateful for all of you!

[[Mi...]]

When I hit 10 mg Valium I could no longer taper at 1 mg per month! The panic and derealization were too awful, not to mention all the other sx - exhaustion, fear, nightmares, insomnia, pain all over, etc. So at 8 or 9 mg I had to slow to .75 per month, microtapering (.025 mg. per night). I don't know how people can tolerate faster withdrawals - they must have very different bodies than mine. I am not a wimp. But being disoriented and hallucinating are not what I'm going to go through. So my advice is to slow down if it gets to be too much.

 

Good luck,

MirandaJane

[[ed...]]

When I hit 10 mg Valium I could no longer taper at 1 mg per month! The panic and derealization were too awful, not to mention all the other sx - exhaustion, fear, nightmares, insomnia, pain all over, etc. So at 8 or 9 mg I had to slow to .75 per month, microtapering (.025 mg. per night). I don't know how people can tolerate faster withdrawals - they must have very different bodies than mine. I am not a wimp. But being disoriented and hallucinating are not what I'm going to go through. So my advice is to slow down if it gets to be too much.

 

Good luck,

MirandaJane

 

I'm right with you!  I think after having a really nasty time at 8 and then 7mg (check my signature), it was just too intense and I had to slow down a bit and switch to liquid.  That being said, we are all different, and I'm sure some people can go all the way down at Ashton's rate. To the OP: Just do what feels right for your body. You are correct in your feeling that you should not be afraid and expect anything bad. Again, your body will tell you everything you need to know.

 

Good luck,

Ed

[[ed...]]

  I don't think they are allowed to vary by 20% of the active ingredient but I could be wrong.  I know they can vary on the fillers but the med I always thought has to be pretty equivalent.  Someone who really knows, could you please clarify once and for all for us as it is a big worry.  20% variation will throw us all into w/d hell.  Thanks.  I do agree generics have some leeway but can't believe they would allow that much. What about like diabetes, heart meds etc? They wouldn't want you taking 20% less than you need so why should it be different for valium or any med for that matter.

 

As far as you trust the FDA:

 

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/ResourcesForYou/Consumers/QuestionsAnswers/ucm100100.htm

 

 

What standards do generic drugs have to meet?

 

Health professionals and consumers can be assured that FDA approved generic drugs have met the same rigid standards as the innovator drug. To gain FDA approval, a generic drug must:

 

contain the same active ingredients as the innovator drug(inactive ingredients may vary)

be identical in strength, dosage form, and route of administration

have the same use indications

be bioequivalent

meet the same batch requirements for identity, strength, purity, and quality

be manufactured under the same strict standards of FDA's good manufacturing practice regulations required for innovator products

[[fr...]]

  So I guess this means they are supposed to have exactly 10 mg. of diazapam in each tablet if that is the dosage.  I would think it could be off by a miniscule amount per manufacturing but to be off 20 % of a prescribed dosage would be scary.  Thanks for posting this.

[[ed...]]

  So I guess this means they are supposed to have exactly 10 mg. of diazapam in each tablet if that is the dosage.  I would think it could be off by a miniscule amount per manufacturing but to be off 20 % of a prescribed dosage would be scary.  Thanks for posting this.

 

My pleasure. I've also read about the 20% "myth" on these boards. And you're right it would be really nasty for us, but for those using generics for a heart condition or something of a similar ilk, it could be deadly.

[[so...]]

When I hit 10 mg Valium I could no longer taper at 1 mg per month! The panic and derealization were too awful, not to mention all the other sx - exhaustion, fear, nightmares, insomnia, pain all over, etc. So at 8 or 9 mg I had to slow to .75 per month, microtapering (.025 mg. per night). I don't know how people can tolerate faster withdrawals - they must have very different bodies than mine. I am not a wimp. But being disoriented and hallucinating are not what I'm going to go through. So my advice is to slow down if it gets to be too much.

 

Good luck,

MirandaJane

 

Thank you for sharing your story and for wishing me luck! I've never taken more than 10 mg per day and I've only been on it since November, so I'm hoping the smallish amount and shorter length of time will make a difference (I'm not actually looking at your signature as I write this, not comparing to your situation, just thinking out loud), though I'm told it's overall benzo time and not just V time that counts, but shhhh don't tell my brain that.

 

I'm right with you!  I think after having a really nasty time at 8 and then 7mg (check my signature), it was just too intense and I had to slow down a bit and switch to liquid.  That being said, we are all different, and I'm sure some people can go all the way down at Ashton's rate. To the OP: Just do what feels right for your body. You are correct in your feeling that you should not be afraid and expect anything bad. Again, your body will tell you everything you need to know.

 

Good luck,

Ed

 

I was quite pleased to realize that I have enough pills to get me to mid-August if I go at the Ashton rate, so I do have my fingers crossed that I can do it, BUT if he keeps giving me enough to get me through October and doesn't cut me off early at some point, that means I'll be able to stretch it out even further if necessary. That extra prescription just may come in handy.

 

I ended up just filling that script and reducing by 1 mg. The plan for now is to focus on work, creative projects, reading... just stop thinking about medical issues, stop overthinking in general, and keep my brain occupied with helping others or just chilling and enjoying some fiction (novels or TV or movies) for a change because I never do.

 

I cannot IMAGINE that I won't hit a bump in the road where I SHOULD hold, but unless it comes down to vertigo or seizures, I'm really going to try to stick to the schedule in my signature. I don't want to go to a psych doc and I frankly like the idea of taking my last pill on my birthday. Seems like the best gift I could ever give myself. I wish I had never said yes to these meds.

 

Thank you all SO much for your support and for sharing your advice and personal experiences. It really helps so much.

[[Sh...]]

Solace and peace. Good luck and thats a good plan you have there. As you can see from my sig, I was able to cut very aggressively and recover really well. After my 3rd 2.5mg cut in a row I was literally feeling 100% healthy after I held for 2 weeks. I didnt even know BB existed and I thought what I was doing and how much I was cutting was the norm.

 

Starting the liquid taper threw me off and increased my symptoms and just put me into a constant haze. I ended up coming back to cut and hold and it is working well. I have had more trouble in the lower parts though. For whatever reason I just dont stabilise like I used to. So ive had to adjust and now Im cutting much smaller.

 

I guess Im saying that it is good to have a plan, but also dont push it to the extreme. I had to updose a couple of times which cost me a couple of months.

[[Ju...]]

Hi edzo, the impression I get is that the FDA Q&A page you referenced is a simplified summary. I found a confirmation of the 20% acceptable range for generics here and at other sources: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3150029/

 

That article also mentions 5% variations batch to batch for the same manufacturer. These ranges sound realistic to me. As you can see the authors expressed concern about how this may impact various treatment situations but benzodiazepine withdrawal isnt one! When I was tapering, I reassured myself that any small differences would average out over time, supported by the long half-life of valium.

 

JKS

[[so...]]

Solace and peace. Good luck and thats a good plan you have there. As you can see from my sig, I was able to cut very aggressively and recover really well. After my 3rd 2.5mg cut in a row I was literally feeling 100% healthy after I held for 2 weeks. I didnt even know BB existed and I thought what I was doing and how much I was cutting was the norm.

 

Starting the liquid taper threw me off and increased my symptoms and just put me into a constant haze. I ended up coming back to cut and hold and it is working well. I have had more trouble in the lower parts though. For whatever reason I just dont stabilise like I used to. So ive had to adjust and now Im cutting much smaller.

 

I guess Im saying that it is good to have a plan, but also dont push it to the extreme. I had to updose a couple of times which cost me a couple of months.

 

This is such valuable information, thank you. I was the same with the Ativan cut... did well for the first half, then all hell broke loose. Valium saved me at that point but there's nothing to save me from the Valium! Just time and patience, I guess.

 

Is it physically possible to have symptoms on day one and day two of a cut? I have had this tight feeling at the top back area of my scalp about four times in the past 24 hours, just for a few seconds each time, but I never had this with the Ativan cut and I haven't changed anything except doing this 1 mg Valium cut. I am a super fast metabolizer of everything, so I'm guessing that's why... it's completely tolerable physically but my anxiety got the best of me this last time and I freaked out a little. Thankful for my supportive partner right now.

 

I definitely have a psychological attachment to popping those pills four times a day. I struggled at the beginning of my Ativan taper too, just the idea of letting go of that safety net. I know none of these things are helping me anymore but it is hard to let go.

[[ed...]]

Hi edzo, the impression I get is that the FDA Q&A page you referenced is a simplified summary. I found a confirmation of the 20% acceptable range for generics here and at other sources: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3150029/

 

That article also mentions 5% variations batch to batch for the same manufacturer. These ranges sound realistic to me. As you can see the authors expressed concern about how this may impact various treatment situations but benzodiazepine withdrawal isnt one! When I was tapering, I reassured myself that any small differences would average out over time, supported by the long half-life of valium.

 

JKS

 

JKS,

 

Yeah, I really dunno. As I mentioned, "as far as you trust the FDA", generics "must be identical in strength, dosage form, and route of administration." It seems like pretty precise wording rather than a simplified version. But at this point, I'd believe (or not believe) just about anything.

[[Su...]]

Elzo.....yahoo thanks for posting a positive msg.  . It was needed.

 

 

[[Ke...]]

Hi there... I read that V has a half life of up to 200 hours.  I am at day 7 from jumping and feel weird. Like the feeling you get when you hit tolerance.

Need help realizing that this too shall pass soon.

Thanks k

[[mr...]]

Hi there... I read that V has a half life of up to 200 hours.  I am at day 7 from jumping and feel weird. Like the feeling you get when you hit tolerance.

Need help realizing that this too shall pass soon.

Thanks k

Hi Keeka,

The first 3.5 months off was the worst for my mom, but things got better gradually.

She still has a long way to go, but she also has an autoimmune disease.

Hopefully, others will let you know their progress after jumping.

[[so...]]

Woo mama, suddenly hit with really intense neck pain. Feels kinda like when a fever is coming on. Hot and achy. Is it possible to feel this three days into my first Valium cut or did I actually injure my neck?

[[ed...]]

Woo mama, suddenly hit with really intense neck pain. Feels kinda like when a fever is coming on. Hot and achy. Is it possible to feel this three days into my first Valium cut or did I actually injure my neck?

 

People often experience sx around day 3 of a cut. Some of us unlucky ones got a double dose at around 10 days in as well.

 

Good luck,

Edzo

[[so...]]

Thanks Edzo, I'm honestly not sure if it's an injury or WD! I lifted three heavy old photo albums from the floor at the same time earlier, and I'm wondering if I pulled something. It's all the way down to my back now. Biofreeze spray is helping quite a bit. Other than that and those weird head sensations yesterday, so far so good. I've seen many day that days 4-5 are the worst, which will be this morning and Saturday... I'm putting on a brave face and hoping for the best.

[[ed...]]

Thanks Edzo, I'm honestly not sure if it's an injury or WD! I lifted three heavy old photo albums from the floor at the same time earlier, and I'm wondering if I pulled something. It's all the way down to my back now. Biofreeze spray is helping quite a bit. Other than that and those weird head sensations yesterday, so far so good. I've seen many day that days 4-5 are the worst, which will be this morning and Saturday... I'm putting on a brave face and hoping for the best.

 

Honestly, putting on a brave face and hoping (or praying) is all we really can do. That's the dastardly part of this process--you never know if it's the WD or an actual issue.  I'm at a loss if I suffered from food poisoning yesterday or if it was simply a symptom of WD. What can we do but trudge forth.  Hang in there!

 

--Edzo

[[...]]

Solaceandpeace hope this excerpt from Ashton Manual helps.

I have had chronic lower back pain. It just goes after a period of time. Also neck pain and now weirdly knee pain for a week, know fading;

 

Muscle symptoms. Benzodiazepines are efficient muscle relaxants and are used clinically for spastic conditions ranging from spinal cord disease or injury to the excruciating muscle spasms of tetanus or rabies. It is therefore not surprising that their discontinuation after long-term use is associated with a rebound increase in muscle tension. This rebound accounts for many of the symptoms observed in benzodiazepine withdrawal. Muscle stiffness affecting the limbs, back, neck and jaw are commonly reported, and the constant muscle tension probably accounts for the muscle pains which have a similar distribution. Headaches are usually of the "tension headache" type, due to contraction of muscles at the back of the neck, scalp and forehead - often described as a "tight band around the head". Pain in the jaw and teeth is probably due to involuntary jaw clenching, which often occurs unconsciously during sleep.

 

At the same time, the nerves to the muscles are hyperexcitable, leading to tremor, tics, jerks, spasm and twitching, and jumping at the smallest stimulus. All this constant activity contributes to a feeling of fatigue and weakness ("jelly-legs"). In addition, the muscles, especially the small muscles of the eye, are not well co-ordinated, which may lead to blurred or double vision or even eyelid spasms (blepharospasm).

 

None of these symptoms is harmful, and they need not be a cause of worry once they are understood. The muscle pain and stiffness is actually little different from what is regarded as normal after an unaccustomed bout of exercise, and would be positively expected, even by a well-trained athlete, after running a marathon.

 

There are many measures that will alleviate these symptoms, such as muscle stretching exercises as taught in most gyms, moderate exercise, hot baths, massage and general relaxation exercises. Such measures may give only temporary relief at first, but if practised regularly can speed the recovery of normal muscle tone - which will eventually occur spontaneously.

[[Ri...]]

Hey guys!

I want to join the Valium support group. To be honest with you Valium is a life saver for me. I do not complain about its depressive symptoms when I started the switch from ativan in February. I am OK on this medication. I still have some sleeping problems and bad days as I withdraw from my afternoon dose. Anyway, the question is about tapering my 10 mg bedtime dose which I need to start next month. The doctor wants me to reduce Valium down to 9 mg and hold for a month as soon I reach 5 mg I'll be tapering by 0.5 mg. My afternoon dose is 2.5 mg at the moment (reduced from 5 mg).

 

Do you think I can succeed with this type of schedule? I have some doubs because of my sleeping problems. Anyone in the same situation please just let me know how you deal with your tapering.

 

I am on a strict supervision of the doctor. No rescue doses, no updoses when I feel bad.

I am not free to do tapering on my own schedule.