Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[la...]]

Liberty if you read my sig you will see that I went from drug to drug...so I too am pretty badly kindled also

 

but tapering from Diazepam is the easiest because of the 2mg pills  IMO

 

I am just back onto diazepam and did not c/o to the amount Ashton would have me go to so I am struggling pretty bad but I will hold in hopes that this will settle down before I attempt a taper

 

I may micro taper this time too since C&H kicked my butt which led me to giving up

 

let me know if I can be of any help...LOL that's rich...me helping when I am such a mess myself

 

[[be...]]

I am just starting my Ashton taper and have some questions.  This is day 4 of my first cut of Valium. I cut from 15 mg daily to 14 mg daily (I calculate this is about 7%). I was previously on Xanax.  I have been on the dose of 15 mg Valium daily for about 6 weeks and finished my wean from Xanax 2 weeks prior to starting my cuts (I know this is not exactly conventional).  I have never felt good throughout the process but was feeling the best I'd felt in a while on the Valium 15 mg daily.  Was able to sleep up to 7 hrs in a row.  I take my Valium 3 times daily and cut 1 mg off the middle of the day dose.  That very first night of my cut sleeping became worse.  The next day I had chills, decreased appetite, intermittent shortness of breath, tremors.  My heart always has the sensation of pounding but was in the 80s and 90s until this morning, now up to low 100.  My question was this too large a cut, should I just hold and wait it out until I stabilize and make a 0.5 mg cut the next go around? Or do I need to updose?  I hate to do that.  My doc wanted me to start cutting 1 mg every week but I'm thinking I need at least 2 weeks between cuts and probably smaller.  Any input? I don't think I'm ready to start micro tapering yet.  This is my first experience with the valium cuts so I'm not sure what to expect.  How much symptoms are too much?  Do they get better?

 

Why not microtaper?  I did C&H from 15 down to 9, .5 every 2 weeks.  That means each cut was less than 5%.  I had significant sxs after each cut that lasted 36-48 hours.  But at 9mg, even a .5 cut was intolerable.  So anything over 5% seems to have been more than I could tolerate.  When I started my microtaper, things went smoothly with only occasional mild sxs.  If I had to do it all over again, I would microtaper from the beginning.

 

 

IMO, the problem with C&H is its the cut that causes the WD sxs.  The hold period is just the time you choose to recover from the shock of the cut.

 

I get you on this, builder: I know I felt much better when I did a dry micro taper off K. But I started the MT at .625 mg. And I felt fine with C/H before that time. And people have told me here not to begin a MT at a whopping 70 mg of V. I think with this way it would takes me years. Plus I recall from your sig that it took you two years to taper off a much smaller amount than I am on.

[[la...]]

ummmm yes its the Ativan support group 

[[la...]]

Bets I agree...at 70mgs I would not MT....wait till you get in the single digits when it gets really hairy

[[ar...]]

Hi All,

 

I've been away for a few weeks.  My head and eye balls don't feel so heavy anymore.  It's really hard to explain but when I move my head and eye balls around really fast I don't have the dizzies anymore.  It's like I don't have a sluggish head and eye balls that are in slow motion.  The headaches are less intense also.  I guess I have the feeling of being more awake?

 

Now every time I posted well messages in the past I get hit with a wave very soon after.  Hopefully this is not the case this time...LOL!!

 

I am being careful with these last few as I am not interested in paying for it on the other side.

 

My sleeping and cognitive skills are fine so far.  I can sleep 7 to 8 hours consistently the last few weeks.  I run an arena team on world of warcraft and I am able to think fast in very stressful and unpredictable situations.

 

Hopefully this feeling lasts and things continue to get better.  I will expect more waves but hopefully less intense.

[[cr...]]

I am tapering from 25mg Valium, cutting 2mg every two weeks.  I am a depressive and the Valium is likely making me more depressed.  Does anyone know or just have an opinion on whether my depression (which is extremely overwhelming) might lessen if I cut 1mg every 2 weeks instead of 2mg?  Or if I cut 2mg but held longer than 2 weeks? Thanks for any ideas you might have. Cross

[[Di...]]

I am tapering from 25mg Valium, cutting 2mg every two weeks.  I am a depressive and the Valium is likely making me more depressed.  Does anyone know or just have an opinion on whether my depression (which is extremely overwhelming) might lessen if I cut 1mg every 2 weeks instead of 2mg?  Or if I cut 2mg but held longer than 2 weeks? Thanks for any ideas you might have. Cross

 

I'll suggest what I always suggest - cut as small as you can and just do it more often if you can. Why not try cutting 0.5mg and just do it more often - maybe that could even be weekly. The end result is more or less the same, but you are shocking your body less by making smaller more frequent cuts.

[[Di...]]

Bets I agree...at 70mgs I would not MT....wait till you get in the single digits when it gets really hairy

 

Yeah, I wouldn't daily taper yet either. I'm totally in favour of daily tapers of course, and will always prefer them to cut and hold in most cases, but when you are on a high dose like 70mg I just think it's not really relevant at this stage. Of course people can start a daily taper at any dose if they want to, but I would probably start to consider it if you get to a point where even a small cut like 0.5mg is too much handle. That's when you'll know you're ready for the change.

[[so...]]

Just checking in. I am at 0.625 mg of A and 10 mg of V as of yesterday. Second cut in 10 days. I had no wd symptoms with that last cut, thankfully. Yesterday, I had a little bit of dizziness but I think it was just anxiety from cutting the dose. Last night and this morning I've had a few stabbing pains in my left temple, which are quick and not long-lasting.

 

The next cut is the one that really scares me, because that is where I had derealization, vertigo, and panic attacks last time. But I didn't have the V as an extra bolster against all that then, either. Hoping that makes the difference.

 

I haven't called any other docs yet but I am planning to call a psychiatrist on Monday. Like I said before, if I had someone else prescribing who was OK with a slower taper, I think I'd be a lot better off. At the same time, if this continues to go well, I'm not opposed to sticking with the plan.

 

I'm actually a little more worried about getting off the V later, but trying not to even think about it yet.

 

Hope you're all hanging in there. I don't reply to everything since I'm on my phone and it's not the easiest, but I do read every bit of this thread. Sending love and hope.

[[so...]]

Oh, wait... I am actually at the cut that caused wds, vertigo, panic attacks, and derealization. I thought that was the next cut. Hmm. Well, I never made it to the next day of that cut (tried it twice) without vertigo happening, and I am already nearing the end of the second day this time, so that's a good sign.

[[cr...]]

Well,DP, I have read so many of your posts and learned a lot and I would bet money that you have previously said you are shocking your body less by making smaller, more frequent cuts, yet I guess it just now sank in and it was like reading it for the first time.  I go to a benzo-wise doc and have been following his instruction.I apologize and thank you for responding to me and to so many others with questions.  Cross

 

I am tapering from 25mg Valium, cutting 2mg every two weeks.  I am a depressive and the Valium is likely making me more depressed.  Does anyone know or just have an opinion on whether my depression (which is extremely overwhelming) might lessen if I cut 1mg every 2 weeks instead of 2mg?  Or if I cut 2mg but held longer than 2 weeks? Thanks for any ideas you might have. Cross

 

I'll suggest what I always suggest - cut as small as you can and just do it more often if you can. Why not try cutting 0.5mg and just do it more often - maybe that could even be weekly. The end result is more or less the same, but you are shocking your body less by making smaller more frequent cuts.

[[Di...]]

What are you apologising for?  The reason I come here is so I can do what I can to help people and that means answering questions, and just basically telling my story.....and I'm very persistent. Maybe you're nicely saying I sound like a broken record?  I'm kidding of course. 

[[Te...]]

Thanks DP!!! I think I'll cut 1 mg, wait a week and if I do OK, I'll cut another 2.5 mg and hold for three weeks.

 

freemee That's what I did with my K and did well with that but Valium is a whole new ball of wax. Plus, I won't have a 2nd benzo to back me up.

+

 

Hi Benzogirl,

I saw you signature, you are K free, congratulations.  Hope the best for you!!

 

Hugs

 

Tex

 

 

[[Ho...]]

Quick question about cut and hold method.  I know your goal is as little symptoms as possible with each cut but how much is too much as far as symptoms?  I have had nausea (lost 3 lbs this week), heart pounding, and insomnia all week since making my first Valium cut.  Nausea and insomnia are improved somewhat, today is day 8.  Are any of you symptom free with your cuts, or are they just tolerable?  I'm planning on trying a 0.5 mg cut next time instead of 1 mg once I feel a little more stable. Going to hold 2 weeks or until I feel better.  Just wondering if I'm in for a rough ride all the way down or if you can achieve some level of stability?  I'm entertaining the thought of micro tapering but the thought of it it is blowing my poor foggy little brain right now so I'd rather stick to a cut and hold as long as it's tolerable for a little while.  Sorry for all the questions, I'm new at this and have both suffering (and FEAR of suffering).  I went through hell with Xanax and I'm not sure what awaits me with Valium.  Totally hating this nausea thing which I did not have with Xanax.  I am at 117 lbs and can't really afford to lose much more weight!

[[mr...]]

Quick question about cut and hold method.  I know your goal is as little symptoms as possible with each cut but how much is too much as far as symptoms?  I have had nausea (lost 3 lbs this week), heart pounding, and insomnia all week since making my first Valium cut.  Nausea and insomnia are improved somewhat, today is day 8.  Are any of you symptom free with your cuts, or are they just tolerable?  I'm planning on trying a 0.5 mg cut next time instead of 1 mg once I feel a little more stable. Going to hold 2 weeks or until I feel better.  Just wondering if I'm in for a rough ride all the way down or if you can achieve some level of stability?  I'm entertaining the thought of micro tapering but the thought of it it is blowing my poor foggy little brain right now so I'd rather stick to a cut and hold as long as it's tolerable for a little while.  Sorry for all the questions, I'm new at this and have both suffering (and FEAR of suffering).  I went through hell with Xanax and I'm not sure what awaits me with Valium.  Totally hating this nausea thing which I did not have with Xanax.  I am at 117 lbs and can't really afford to lose much more weight!

Hi Hope,

I am really sorry you are having nausea so early in the taper.

Does ginger tea help?

My mom had to have zofran which is a serotonin blocker for her nausea, but not until she got below 2mg.

Please make sure you get some protein shakes and drink plenty of water to keep from losing weight.

We need all the body mass we have to get thru a taper.

Most people will find that time frame when symptoms no longer get worse or go away when they cut again.

Did you hold at 15mg valium for 15 days before cutting?

[Guest [mo...]]

Quick question about cut and hold method.  I know your goal is as little symptoms as possible with each cut but how much is too much as far as symptoms?  I have had nausea (lost 3 lbs this week), heart pounding, and insomnia all week since making my first Valium cut.  Nausea and insomnia are improved somewhat, today is day 8.  Are any of you symptom free with your cuts, or are they just tolerable?  I'm planning on trying a 0.5 mg cut next time instead of 1 mg once I feel a little more stable. Going to hold 2 weeks or until I feel better.  Just wondering if I'm in for a rough ride all the way down or if you can achieve some level of stability?  I'm entertaining the thought of micro tapering but the thought of it it is blowing my poor foggy little brain right now so I'd rather stick to a cut and hold as long as it's tolerable for a little while.  Sorry for all the questions, I'm new at this and have both suffering (and FEAR of suffering).  I went through hell with Xanax and I'm not sure what awaits me with Valium.  Totally hating this nausea thing which I did not have with Xanax.  I am at 117 lbs and can't really afford to lose much more weight!

 

Hi Hope,

You just finished your crossover about 3 weeks ago so give yourself a chance to settle in with the valium. You may be really sensitive and cutting .5 every 7 to 14 days might serve you. When you get down to 10 mg, you may want to rethink your percentages and start a liquid taper.  I just read recently on this thread that if he could do it again, he would have liquid micro-tapered the whole way.  I probably could have saved myself a lot of pain and anguish had I started earlier but I could not get my foggy brain at that time around it either.  There are many on this thread who can help you here with that.  It seems to be about windows and waves Hope. I just dropped 3 days ago from 1.4 to 1.35 and I have been up for 2 nights straight with cortisol surges and minor heart palpitations. I don't get angry anymore and buy into the whole benzo beast dialogue that plays out in my head.  Now I observe it and let it pass through like a movie in my mental framework.  I don't attach myself to it. If you do, then you become it. I hope this helps a little.  Stare the fear right in the face in defiance.  I don't think it helps to tell you, 'oh, at some point you will not suffer.'  I think we learn to take on the suffering from a different perspective. And the suffering changes---because we learn, hopefully, to accept this ebbing and flowing with equanimity. But I will say that I believe we will get better and fully recover.  I try to spend time reading success stories or hanging out on the 'mentoring those who struggle' thread(a mix of people who are healed, encouraging those who are in process).  You will get there, this forum has saved my behind many times from throwing in the towel, as they say. 

Hugs and healing to you

yogi

[[Ho...]]

Quick question about cut and hold method.  I know your goal is as little symptoms as possible with each cut but how much is too much as far as symptoms?  I have had nausea (lost 3 lbs this week), heart pounding, and insomnia all week since making my first Valium cut.  Nausea and insomnia are improved somewhat, today is day 8.  Are any of you symptom free with your cuts, or are they just tolerable?  I'm planning on trying a 0.5 mg cut next time instead of 1 mg once I feel a little more stable. Going to hold 2 weeks or until I feel better.  Just wondering if I'm in for a rough ride all the way down or if you can achieve some level of stability?  I'm entertaining the thought of micro tapering but the thought of it it is blowing my poor foggy little brain right now so I'd rather stick to a cut and hold as long as it's tolerable for a little while.  Sorry for all the questions, I'm new at this and have both suffering (and FEAR of suffering).  I went through hell with Xanax and I'm not sure what awaits me with Valium.  Totally hating this nausea thing which I did not have with Xanax.  I am at 117 lbs and can't really afford to lose much more weight!

Hi Hope,

I am really sorry you are having nausea so early in the taper.

Does ginger tea help?

My mom had to have zofran which is a serotonin blocker for her nausea, but not until she got below 2mg.

Please make sure you get some protein shakes and drink plenty of water to keep from losing weight.

We need all the body mass we have to get thru a taper.

Most people will find that time frame when symptoms no longer get worse or go away when they cut again.

Did you hold at 15mg valium for 15 days before cutting?

 

I held on the Valium for two weeks before I did my cut. Maybe it wasn't long enough. I have lost 3 lbs just this week so I've gotten some boost shakes. I may have to go the zofran route if this

Keeps up!

[[mr...]]

Quick question about cut and hold method.  I know your goal is as little symptoms as possible with each cut but how much is too much as far as symptoms?  I have had nausea (lost 3 lbs this week), heart pounding, and insomnia all week since making my first Valium cut.  Nausea and insomnia are improved somewhat, today is day 8.  Are any of you symptom free with your cuts, or are they just tolerable?  I'm planning on trying a 0.5 mg cut next time instead of 1 mg once I feel a little more stable. Going to hold 2 weeks or until I feel better.  Just wondering if I'm in for a rough ride all the way down or if you can achieve some level of stability?  I'm entertaining the thought of micro tapering but the thought of it it is blowing my poor foggy little brain right now so I'd rather stick to a cut and hold as long as it's tolerable for a little while.  Sorry for all the questions, I'm new at this and have both suffering (and FEAR of suffering).  I went through hell with Xanax and I'm not sure what awaits me with Valium.  Totally hating this nausea thing which I did not have with Xanax.  I am at 117 lbs and can't really afford to lose much more weight!

Hi Hope,

I am really sorry you are having nausea so early in the taper.

Does ginger tea help?

My mom had to have zofran which is a serotonin blocker for her nausea, but not until she got below 2mg.

Please make sure you get some protein shakes and drink plenty of water to keep from losing weight.

We need all the body mass we have to get thru a taper.

Most people will find that time frame when symptoms no longer get worse or go away when they cut again.

Did you hold at 15mg valium for 15 days before cutting?

 

I held on the Valium for two weeks before I did my cut. Maybe it wasn't long enough. I have lost 3 lbs just this week so I've gotten some boost shakes. I may have to go the zofran route if this

Keeps up!

When my mom gets nausea, I give her 1/2 zofran 4mg and the nausea is gone within 15 minutes and she can eat.

Fliprain had a real hard time with nausea and she had zofran melts.

Maybe fliprain could tell u if holding would help or not?

[[Ho...]]

Quick question about cut and hold method.  I know your goal is as little symptoms as possible with each cut but how much is too much as far as symptoms?  I have had nausea (lost 3 lbs this week), heart pounding, and insomnia all week since making my first Valium cut.  Nausea and insomnia are improved somewhat, today is day 8.  Are any of you symptom free with your cuts, or are they just tolerable?  I'm planning on trying a 0.5 mg cut next time instead of 1 mg once I feel a little more stable. Going to hold 2 weeks or until I feel better.  Just wondering if I'm in for a rough ride all the way down or if you can achieve some level of stability?  I'm entertaining the thought of micro tapering but the thought of it it is blowing my poor foggy little brain right now so I'd rather stick to a cut and hold as long as it's tolerable for a little while.  Sorry for all the questions, I'm new at this and have both suffering (and FEAR of suffering).  I went through hell with Xanax and I'm not sure what awaits me with Valium.  Totally hating this nausea thing which I did not have with Xanax.  I am at 117 lbs and can't really afford to lose much more weight!

Hi Hope,

I am really sorry you are having nausea so early in the taper.

Does ginger tea help?

My mom had to have zofran which is a serotonin blocker for her nausea, but not until she got below 2mg.

Please make sure you get some protein shakes and drink plenty of water to keep from losing weight.

We need all the body mass we have to get thru a taper.

Most people will find that time frame when symptoms no longer get worse or go away when they cut again.

Did you hold at 15mg valium for 15 days before cutting?

 

I held on the Valium for two weeks before I did my cut. Maybe it wasn't long enough. I have lost 3 lbs just this week so I've gotten some boost shakes. I may have to go the zofran route if this

Keeps up!

When my mom gets nausea, I give her 1/2 zofran 4mg and the nausea is gone within 15 minutes and she can eat.

Fliprain had a real hard time with nausea and she had zofran melts.

Maybe fliprain could tell u if holding would help or not?

 

I might talk to my doc about Zofran then. 8 days ago I could eat and now I'm a mess. Would

Love to be able to eat again.

[[mr...]]

I might talk to my doc about Zofran then. 8 days ago I could eat and now I'm a mess. Would

Love to be able to eat again.

Try eating ginger or drinking ginger tea.

[[so...]]

Quick question about cut and hold method.  I know your goal is as little symptoms as possible with each cut but how much is too much as far as symptoms?  I have had nausea (lost 3 lbs this week), heart pounding, and insomnia all week since making my first Valium cut.  Nausea and insomnia are improved somewhat, today is day 8.  Are any of you symptom free with your cuts, or are they just tolerable?  I'm planning on trying a 0.5 mg cut next time instead of 1 mg once I feel a little more stable. Going to hold 2 weeks or until I feel better.  Just wondering if I'm in for a rough ride all the way down or if you can achieve some level of stability?  I'm entertaining the thought of micro tapering but the thought of it it is blowing my poor foggy little brain right now so I'd rather stick to a cut and hold as long as it's tolerable for a little while.  Sorry for all the questions, I'm new at this and have both suffering (and FEAR of suffering).  I went through hell with Xanax and I'm not sure what awaits me with Valium.  Totally hating this nausea thing which I did not have with Xanax.  I am at 117 lbs and can't really afford to lose much more weight!

 

I have the same question regarding cut and hold. I'm not having any symptoms with my oddly planned crossover yet (that's hardly the right word because of how I went about it out of fear and added the V all at once), but when it comes time to cut the valium, I definitely want to know how much of side effects should be tolerated or are safe.

 

Regarding nausea, IV zofran was a lifesaver for me while I was in the hospital for surgery, but I tried the oral version when I came home and it actually increased my nausea for the first 15 minutes, enough to make it unappealing for future use. The warning about serotonin syndrome also thoroughly freaked me out! But I think they're probably just fine as-needed, especially if you don't have any side effects like I did.

 

I am also a medical marijuana patient for migraines and, needless to say, that helps tremendously with both nausea and appetite issues. If you're in a legal state, it's a great natural option and it has been the greatest relief from anxiety for me as well (yes, I had to get over tbe paranoia at first and figure out a comfortable low dosage, that's all very normal).

 

Good luck with your nausea. I know how awful that can be and I think I hate that even more than vertigo, which says a lot!

[[so...]]

When switching from A to V, are nightmares perhaps a sign of healing and progress? I've had no other WD symptoms so far, but today I took a nap and dreamed that half my face was paralyzed and it felt disturbingly real. I know nightmares can be a side effect of benzos in general, and I did have them when I first started the V, but then they stopped. Just hoping this is a sign of my brain doing what it has to do.

[[Gr...]]

According to Ashton, nightmares are not a bad thing, but part of recovery:

In regular benzodiazepine users REMS and SWS tend to return to pre-drug levels (because of tolerance) but the initial deficit remains. On withdrawal, even after years of benzodiazepine use, there is a marked rebound increase in REMS which also becomes more intense. As a result, dreams become more vivid, nightmares may occur and cause frequent awakenings during the night. This is a normal reaction to benzodiazepine withdrawal and, though unpleasant, it is a sign that recovery is beginning to take place. When the deficit of REMS is made up, usually after about 4-6 weeks, the nightmares become less frequent and gradually fade away.

[Guest [mo...]]

According to Ashton, nightmares are not a bad thing, but part of recovery:

In regular benzodiazepine users REMS and SWS tend to return to pre-drug levels (because of tolerance) but the initial deficit remains. On withdrawal, even after years of benzodiazepine use, there is a marked rebound increase in REMS which also becomes more intense. As a result, dreams become more vivid, nightmares may occur and cause frequent awakenings during the night. This is a normal reaction to benzodiazepine withdrawal and, though unpleasant, it is a sign that recovery is beginning to take place. When the deficit of REMS is made up, usually after about 4-6 weeks, the nightmares become less frequent and gradually fade away.

excellent info and good to know, thank you

[[fr...]]

  I didn't have nightmares per se but very vivid dreams when I first crossed over from A to V.  Now I dream sometimes but not as much but I haven't been tapering.  I will continue my taper after my surgery.