Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[co...]]

To etown, smiff and several others who recently finished, my congratulations to you! Well done! I am going to cut to .75 next week and still taking it very slowly. I wish I could also report that I am close to being finished however I believe I will need about 4 more months.

 

I see etown that you jumped around .5. For those of you that finished how how low a dose did you get to before you stopped? How are you doing and how have you been feeling since then?  I hope to get to .5 around the end of the year. That may be too high of a dose for me to completely stop from. If I want to jump from .10, I think it might take me to February or March. Any feedback would be appreciated. At these lower does it can still be challenging at times. I would like to be patient however the lower I go, the more anxious I am to make progress. Many of you who were at my dose when I started already finished. I seem to be getting more physical symptoms lately, such as body aches, spasms and digestive symptoms.

 

As we are all different, I need to follow my own pace nevertheless I am already wondering how it will be when I am done. I am hoping that since I have tapered so slowly I will not have a difficult transition off. Your feedback would be welcome,

Concerned

[[Sm...]]

Hey Yogi

 

10% every two weeks is a recommended guideline. But it is very hard to know whether a guideline is suitable for each individual. Considering how fast you came down to 2, I'd be thinking it would be very hard for you to feel anything but yuck tapering. The trick is getting it to a point where the yuck off isn't much worse then the yuck on. I'd say that would be a taper that hits that spot isn't a year. I was at a bit over 3mg at the start of this year. It took me a lot longer to get there than you though. I wouldn't recommend my previous speed though, there were lots of extenuating factors.

 

I did have issues with the alcohol mixture and knew that once I went to a compounded oil mixture.

 

 

Hi Concerned

 

How fast you go at this point is entirely up to you. I felt better once off. My anxiety was worse for a week after jumping but by and large it is better. I got to the point I knew I wouldn't be worse off so I just cut till off. Chances are you'll feel better off particularly considering the time tapering

[[et...]]

To etown, smiff and several others who recently finished, my congratulations to you! Well done! I am going to cut to .75 next week and still taking it very slowly. I wish I could also report that I am close to being finished however I believe I will need about 4 more months.

 

I see etown that you jumped around .5. For those of you that finished how how low a dose did you get to before you stopped? How are you doing and how have you been feeling since then?  I hope to get to .5 around the end of the year. That may be too high of a dose for me to completely stop from. If I want to jump from .10, I think it might take me to February or March. Any feedback would be appreciated. At these lower does it can still be challenging at times. I would like to be patient however the lower I go, the more anxious I am to make progress. Many of you who were at my dose when I started already finished. I seem to be getting more physical symptoms lately, such as body aches, spasms and digestive symptoms.

 

As we are all different, I need to follow my own pace nevertheless I am already wondering how it will be when I am done. I am hoping that since I have tapered so slowly I will not have a difficult transition off. Your feedback would be welcome,

Concerned

 

I was on .5mg for 2 weeks then off. I feel that below 2mg your dose only manages the exit of the accumulated Valium. In other words most of your symptoms below 2mg come from the downward trend of the accumulated Valium that drops at a much quicker rate at low doses than at high doses. You are used to the daily taper and if you feel comfortable with that, then keep going that way. I honestly don't feel any worse than when tapering. I accept the 2-4 weeks of acute symptoms post going off and expect to see things improve dramatically after 1 month off. Slow but sure but moving in a healing direction.

etown

[Guest [mo...]]

Hey Yogi

 

10% every two weeks is a recommended guideline. But it is very hard to know whether a guideline is suitable for each individual. Considering how fast you came down to 2, I'd be thinking it would be very hard for you to feel anything but yuck tapering. The trick is getting it to a point where the yuck off isn't much worse then the yuck on. I'd say that would be a taper that hits that spot isn't a year. I was at a bit over 3mg at the start of this year. It took me a lot longer to get there than you though. I wouldn't recommend my previous speed though, there were lots of extenuating factors.

 

I did have issues with the alcohol mixture and knew that once I went to a compounded oil mixture.

 

 

 

Thanks Smiff, I hope you are well. Yea, Moodle had told me about the oil compounding but they look at me like I was crazy when I asked about it at the pharmacy. So I will stick with the vodka for now.  I seem to have my first window today in a long time- I hope it lasts As for timing, definitely more yuck on these days, so I need to quiet down and keep forging ahead.  Still can't get my head around 6 months use=2 yrs tapering and then whatever protracted stuff lingers (2yrs I have read to some level whether acute or mild)

thanks again Smiff

[Guest [mo...]]

 

I make my liquid titration with 151 proof rum...in my state you can't get 190 proof vodka without a special permit. I use 1-2ml of rum in 99-98 mls of water with 1mg (half of a 2mg tablet) for my titration liquid and I cut between 5 mls and 2 mls a day and hold when I feel I need to. I have not had any increased stomach issues during cutting (in fact it got much better when I moved from Ashton cut and hold to daily liquid taper) and I like the fact that I can keep the liquid for days, and even travel without refrigerating it. Everybody is so different, it's important to find what works for you, but I also noticed now that I have been holding at 5mgs (all dry pills) for a few weeks until I finish teaching for the fall term, I have had worse stomach issues than when I was cutting and using the rum liquid titration, so benzos are just difficult that way! I have found candied ginger to be very helpful to me with stomach issues during this w/d, but I take fairly large doses (around 3-5 grams a day) and I'm not sure if that is safe for everyone...?

 

Hope you feel better soon,

 

Mo

 

Hey Mo, I am using Absolut 80 proof vodka and it seems to work, am I doing something wrong?

 

[[ar...]]

I am at 1.15ml today and got hit.  I had an adrenal rush this morning but said screw it and mowed the lawn anyway.  I am on the couch with a nasty headache, body flu like symptoms, low level chemical anxiety, sore muscles, mild nausea.  Is this normal this low?  I am going to hold until this goes.  My cuts caught up with me.  Sometimes it comes without any warning.

[[or...]]

arcade, based on my experiences and those of a few buddies I know well,  the low doses were especially challenging. So I wouldn't worry that this is something abnormal. Just normally rotten benzo s/x . . . as you say, cuts catching up to you. I think holding until you feel well again is wise.

 

Hoe you get to feeling better soon.

 

Okatz

[[Al...]]

I am at 1.15ml today and got hit.  I had an adrenal rush this morning but said screw it and mowed the lawn anyway.  I am on the couch with a nasty headache, body flu like symptoms, low level chemical anxiety, sore muscles, mild nausea.  Is this normal this low?  I am going to hold until this goes.  My cuts caught up with me.  Sometimes it comes without any warning.

 

Arcade79,

 

You are lower than I am so I can't pretend to know what it is like at 1.15, I'm at 1.95 myself.

 

But I have experienced what you describe and all you can really do is treat the sxs your having and maybe take some Magnesium for the muscles. It works for me but I know we are all different.

 

I think you are wise to hold some now and take a bit of a break from tapering, it could very well be that the cuts are catching up.

 

Peace & Health to you! 

 

ATU

[[ar...]]

Thanks Oktaz and ATU.  I am going to hold at 1.15ml until I get back to baseline.  A few weeks ago I got slammed but it only lasted a day.  Sometimes this stuff just happens.  As you can see in my schedule I don't really follow a set schedule in the lower doses.  I make a decision to cut on how I feel that day.

 

When I feel bad my mind races and I try to look for answers and I catastrophize.  I think of stuff like, did I kindle, am I cutting too fast...all that stuff.

 

I am 39 years old and I was an athlete before this.  I feel like I am stuck in an old body and feel defeated sometimes.  I am trying my best to get my old body back.

[[or...]]

I hear you about this arcade:

 

I am 39 years old and I was an athlete before this.  I feel like I am stuck in an old body and feel defeated sometimes.  I am trying my best to get my old body back.

 

Pre-benzo w/d I was doing biathlons. Now I am lucky if I can do a little tai chi. But we will both get back to our old selves!

[[ar...]]

I hear you about this arcade:

 

I am 39 years old and I was an athlete before this.  I feel like I am stuck in an old body and feel defeated sometimes.  I am trying my best to get my old body back.

 

Pre-benzo w/d I was doing biathlons. Now I am lucky if I can do a little tai chi. But we will both get back to our old selves!

 

Oh yes I look forward to it.  I was doing a couple half marathons a year.  Now I can only walk a few miles.  We'll get there again for sure!

[[Di...]]

So one more question for you liquid taperers: I am thinking about switching to milk to see if it's the vodka messing with my belly(I remember someone saying the vodka messed with her belly, Smiff?). Anyway, if I dissolve with milk, is it stored in the fridge? and does it the valium stay dispersed in the solution if it is kept cold?

 

I would suspect that it's more the rate of your taper that could be causing the problem, rather than the vodka because if you're using a very small amount of vodka (as recommended) you would actually get more alcohol in a glass of orange juice.

 

10% every 2 weeks could just be too fast for you. It's at the absolute high end of what is recommended (5-10% every 2-4 weeks), so maybe a hold and a reduction of how much you're cutting each day could help.

 

Please don't stick too rigidly to any kind of excel sheet schedule. I learned that I had to throw out all schedules and all expectations of being finished by a certain date when I was tapering. Basically what you have to do is let go of all thoughts of being "in control". You need to allow you body (not your brain) to be in charge.

 

I know the thought of tapering for an extended period of time is depressing, but I'll repeat what Etown said in a recent post "Yogi the time it takes for a sensible taper from dose to healed is similar as from dose to healed in a uncomfortable taper. A sensible taper is just sensible."

 

Please think about that because you don't want taper really quickly, just to get it over with, but then have to suffer for an extended period of time afterwards anyway. It's much less painful to slow down the taper in the first place, and then step off, maybe a later time, but feeling a whole lot better quicker.

[[Di...]]

To etown, smiff and several others who recently finished, my congratulations to you! Well done! I am going to cut to .75 next week and still taking it very slowly. I wish I could also report that I am close to being finished however I believe I will need about 4 more months.

 

I see etown that you jumped around .5. For those of you that finished how how low a dose did you get to before you stopped? How are you doing and how have you been feeling since then?  I hope to get to .5 around the end of the year. That may be too high of a dose for me to completely stop from. If I want to jump from .10, I think it might take me to February or March. Any feedback would be appreciated. At these lower does it can still be challenging at times. I would like to be patient however the lower I go, the more anxious I am to make progress. Many of you who were at my dose when I started already finished. I seem to be getting more physical symptoms lately, such as body aches, spasms and digestive symptoms.

 

As we are all different, I need to follow my own pace nevertheless I am already wondering how it will be when I am done. I am hoping that since I have tapered so slowly I will not have a difficult transition off. Your feedback would be welcome,

Concerned

 

Well, I'm not one of the recent 2015 graduates. I finished in the Class of 2014 (about 15 months ago now). I tapered right down to zero. Maybe I could have stepped off a 0.1 or 0.2 or even 0.5, but I guess I was just too scared to. Even at those levels if I tapered too quickly I still got s/x, so I didn't feel that tapering right down to zero was going to be in any way detrimental to me in the long run.

 

I did continue to have some ups and downs over the next 4-6 months or so. Maybe those ups and downs might have been worse if I’d finished earlier, or maybe they would have been the same. There's no way of knowing, but it's not something I think about. I don’t have any regrets whatsoever about how I tapered.

 

Everyone has to make their own decisions about when is the right time to jump, but TBH I think in the long run a few extra months of tapering isn’t something to be concerned about. A year or two after you’ve finished, those extra few months is something you won’t even think about anyway.

 

[[Di...]]

I am at 1.15ml today and got hit.  I had an adrenal rush this morning but said screw it and mowed the lawn anyway.  I am on the couch with a nasty headache, body flu like symptoms, low level chemical anxiety, sore muscles, mild nausea.  Is this normal this low?  I am going to hold until this goes.  My cuts caught up with me.  Sometimes it comes without any warning.

 

Valium definitely is a sneaky SOB..!!! It is quite normal, and common, to still get hit at low doses. I got a major hit at 1mg and had to hold for 2 months.

[[ar...]]

I am at 1.15ml today and got hit.  I had an adrenal rush this morning but said screw it and mowed the lawn anyway.  I am on the couch with a nasty headache, body flu like symptoms, low level chemical anxiety, sore muscles, mild nausea.  Is this normal this low?  I am going to hold until this goes.  My cuts caught up with me.  Sometimes it comes without any warning.

 

Valium definitely is a sneaky SOB..!!! It is quite normal, and common, to still get hit at low doses. I got a major hit at 1mg and had to hold for 2 months.

 

Thank you Pam.  I am sorry you got nailed at 1mg.  Good to know this is normal at a low dose.  I also plan on jumping close to 0 someday.  I don't know when this will be.

[[Sm...]]

I hear you about this arcade:

 

I am 39 years old and I was an athlete before this.  I feel like I am stuck in an old body and feel defeated sometimes.  I am trying my best to get my old body back.

 

Pre-benzo w/d I was doing biathlons. Now I am lucky if I can do a little tai chi. But we will both get back to our old selves!

 

Oh yes I look forward to it.  I was doing a couple half marathons a year.  Now I can only walk a few miles.  We'll get there again for sure!

 

same! I was a bikram hot yoga addict. I'm still AMAZED how unfit and weak I am after two years. Hopefully the health will return

[Guest [mo...]]

Yogi the time it takes for a sensible taper from dose to healed is similar as from dose to healed in a uncomfortable taper. A sensible taper is just sensible.

etown

 

I think I need to frame and wreath this one next to my Yogananda picture and wreath

thx etownanandaji

[[Mo...]]

Yogi the time it takes for a sensible taper from dose to healed is similar as from dose to healed in a uncomfortable taper. A sensible taper is just sensible.

etown

 

I think I need to frame and wreath this one next to my Yogananda picture and wreath

thx etownanandaji

 

Hey! I just finished autobiography of a Yogi. Again.

[[mr...]]

I know the thought of tapering for an extended period of time is depressing, but I'll repeat what Etown said in a recent post "Yogi the time it takes for a sensible taper from dose to healed is similar as from dose to healed in a uncomfortable taper. A sensible taper is just sensible."

 

Please think about that because you don't want taper really quickly, just to get it over with, but then have to suffer for an extended period of time afterwards anyway. It's much less painful to slow down the taper in the first place, and then step off, maybe a later time, but feeling a whole lot better quicker.

 

Could Colin post this as a sticky for all the newcomers?

It really says it all especially for those that don't know what to do.

[[be...]]

Hi, I have been reading a lot of posts this morning and read one that two Buddies  telling someone that our Brains do not start healing until we are completely off of the benzo, is this true, as I have thought that the brain is slowly healing when benzo's are being tapered also and somewhere read on the highlighted areas, that the brain is healing when we are tapering, now I am sorta confused can someone give me some insight into this"""""?   

[[ph...]]

I would also like to know if we are healing as we taper?  Thought so?

 

[[et...]]

I believe that healing takes place on 2 levels. 1. The idea of tapering allows the brain to lose the effects of the drug over an extended period of time therefore healing as it goes. 2. It is also a fact that once off the second part of the healing begins as the brain reboots and learns to live without the drug. I think too many people believe that off is the end, however, we know that is not true and the second healing phase may take from 0-24 months.

etown

[[be...]]

I would like to hear some more opinions please, and is it down in writing somewhere,can't remember where I read it here on this site.? I do believe the fact that after we are completely off, it is no guarantee that  will be clear coasting, have read all the stories of the problems that can and do arise. Thanks. 

[[bu...]]

I think many folks have varying interpretations  of "heal", so there never seems to be any unanimity to this question.

 

But it's pretty generally acknowledged that benzo use results in an "impaired GABA response" and that is what causes the WD sxs.  And it seems generally acknowledged that this "impaired GABA response" results from the down-regulation of the GABA receptors caused by benzos.  The benzo has been supplementing or stimulating GABA response, so when we begin to remove the benzo, we  need to body to restore its natural GABA mechanism.

 

The underlying concept of tapering benzos is based on the principle that the GABA receptors will gradually up-regulate and the GABA response will begin to normalize.

 

So if your definition of "heal" means a return to more normal GABA response, it seems obvious we do "heal" while tapering.  If our GABA response didn't begin to normalize while we taper, what would be the advantage of tapering.  If our GABA response didn't tnd to normalize, we would be no better off at the end of the taper, and we might as well have just CT'd. 

 

It was profoundly obvious to me that I was in a much better condition, physically and emotionally at the end of my taper.  It was also profoundly obvious that there was an continuous gradual improvement throughout my taper.

 

 

[[...]]

We absolutely heal as we taper.  As Builder said, that is the point of tapering.  We can taper in such a way that we are nearly completely done when we reach zero.  Our bodies respond to drug shortages by healing - they compensate by adjusting the GABA system upwards to function at the new drug dose.  If we keep maintaining a slight shortage the body will keep following, much like dangling a carrot in front of a horse.  That's what tapering does - it keeps maintaining a slight shortage.  The reason people need more time after zero is that they tapered too fast, which is very common as the tapering process takes so incredibly long.  But with enough patience it is certainly possible to taper, feel good, reach zero in good shape, and be done at that time.  I honestly don't think reaching zero is the beginning of any new phase or anything like that.  After zero the body is just finishing the final GABA adjustments and repairing any damage that might have occurred from cuts that were too big during the taper.