Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[pe...]]

I have been on 1.70 mg of lorazepam and tended to switch to valium...about 6 months ago i added in valium...i tried to dose it twice a day the other day and had horrendous withdrawals from splitting the dose...the mind racing...

 

Has anyone gone back to lorazepam before....

 

 

[[bu...]]

the problem is the entire tip fills with liquid which to me appears to be liquid filling beyond the 1ml measurement and it is difficult to see if the tip is full or not.

  The process of drawing liquid into a cylinder is based on a principle called displacement.  That simply means if you create an empty space (by drawing the plunger back), an exact amount of something will fill that space.

 

If you have a 1ml syringe with the tip submerged in liquid, and  if you draw the plunger back to the .5 mark, it will pull up .5ml of liquid. Some of it will be in the tip, and there will probably be an air gap just below the plunger, but the total liquid in the syringe will be exactly .5ml.

 

Try not to get too hung up on tiny details.  Consistency is much more important than accuracy.  Just follow the same procedure each time, and you'll be fine.

[[bu...]]

the problem is the entire tip fills with liquid which to me appears to be liquid filling beyond the 1ml measurement and it is difficult to see if the tip is full or not.

The tip, the bottom part , is calculated IN the measurement of the syringe.

And even if it wasn't , you'll adjust to your syringe .

 

I'm not sure if that's what you mean.

 

I've used a 3 ml clear syringe though my whole taper.

 

That's exactly correct.  If you keep the tip submerged while you pull the plunger to 2.5, you will have 2.5ml liquid in the syringe. Part of it will probably be in the tip, and there may be an air gap just below the plunger.

[[la...]]

guess I got lost in the discussion about liquid titration

 

 

I have Dr. Pearts schedule just not sure how to implement with my doses...

 

 

so if ANYONE has a suggestion I am all ears

[[Sm...]]

guess I got lost in the discussion about liquid titration

 

 

I have Dr. Pearts schedule just not sure how to implement with my doses...

 

 

so if ANYONE has a suggestion I am all ears

 

Follow Dr Pearts schedule and his crossover dose. I think you and I would disagree on the crossover dose, which is why I didn't comment. I'm not saying Ashton didn't overshoot a bit, perhaps particularly with Ativan, but I don't believe she was wrong by 50%. In addition I tend to believe overshooting when crossing over is better than under shooting, particularly when you have a destabilised CNS.

 

Good luck Lainey. This wont be a panacea but hopefully it can help a little.

[[Di...]]

because I am diluting 10:1 and pulling 2.5 ml and using a 5ml syringe, the tip is large and I think it does make a difference in measurement - liquid is clear and hard to see also - sorry everyone, having a very hard time with everything and no one to help at home.  I am a overwhelmed.

 

You are really over-thinking this. As long as what you do is exactly the same every time, none of this matters. Consistancy is the key here.

[[ne...]]

Hi, has anyone here CT`d from valium/ diazepam?

I had no idea of the outcome and went to a detox clinic 6 months ago and have been in hell ever since.

I was originally taking Temazepam for insomnia for 10 yrs, my Dr crossed me over to Diazepam 10 mg, I managed to taper to 7 mg but became seriously depressed.

 

So not knowing any better I allowed the detox clinic taper the 7 mg over 7 days.

 

I ended up discharging myself when I realized this wasn`t the place for me- came home and became bedridden for 2 months.

 

I`m getting terrible pains still in my muscles, dizziness and some anxiety along with bad sleep.

Frankly I`m very frightened that I wont recover. I`ve had a few partial windows and keep telling myself that it can`t be permanent if I`m getting some slight respite.

 

I`ve read that some sx can be permanent but haven`t seen anything to say pain at this level would be?

 

Can anyone reassure me please. 

[[be...]]

Hi DP, builder, Moodle and others here:

 

I have a few options that have been given to me about my Valium taper. Of course I have access to the liquid V, and also access to the pills of any doses. I once asked builder if I could taper using liquid from the beginning, at 70 mg, and he said yes. DP suggested that I drop my .5 mg each week by cut and hold for a month, and then possibly up it to 1 mg the next month. But I am worried about cutting every week by that amount (1 mg), because most people do not make cuts every week. Plus 1 mg per week is higher than 5 %.  And the progressive drops will be odd cuts, which I don't think I can eye ball. Valium has a long half life, with the three metabolites there, all of them benzos. So I am asking again, which method should I use? I don't want to cut anymore than 5% every 14 days.  builder, I lost the chart you gave me on my progressive taper. I'm sorry.  Also, can anyone give me the math equation on how to make my progressive drops? Any old or new ideas would be welcome. Thanks, Bets

[[bu...]]

Just FYI, I did C&H before I started daily taper.  I would NEVER do C&H again!!!

 

Even when C&H "worked", I still suffered 24-36 hours os misery after each cut (and I never cut more than 5%).  And most folks have sxs last 4-5 days, instead of 24-36 hours. 

 

If I had had access to liquid V in the beginning, and had known about daily microtaper, I would never have done a C&H.  Why would you not want to start a liquid, daily taper from the beginning?

[[be...]]

Just FYI, I did C&H before I started daily taper.  I would NEVER do C&H again!!!

 

Even when C&H "worked", I still suffered 24-36 hours os misery after each cut (and I never cut more than 5%).  And most folks have sxs last 4-5 days, instead of 24-36 hours. 

 

If I had had access to liquid V in the beginning, and had known about daily microtaper, I would never have done a C&H.   Why would you not want to start a liquid, daily taper from the beginning?

 

I was thinking that starting the liquid from 70 mg would take much longer than cut and hold......But I do like the idea of using the liquid, which my pharmacy keeps in stock. BTW, I looked at your older posts and found the one where you tell gave me the #s on each progressive taper, down to 57 mg. But I need the math equation in order to figure out the rest. Can you help me with that, builder? I do prefer the liquid....

Bets

[[bu...]]

Just FYI, I did C&H before I started daily taper.  I would NEVER do C&H again!!!

 

Even when C&H "worked", I still suffered 24-36 hours os misery after each cut (and I never cut more than 5%).  And most folks have sxs last 4-5 days, instead of 24-36 hours. 

 

If I had had access to liquid V in the beginning, and had known about daily microtaper, I would never have done a C&H.   Why would you not want to start a liquid, daily taper from the beginning?

I was thinking that starting the liquid from 70 mg would take much longer than cut and hold......But I do like the idea of using the liquid, which my pharmacy keeps in stock. BTW, I looked at your older posts and found the one where you tell gave me the #s on each progressive taper, down to 57 mg. But I need the math equation in order to figure out the rest. Can you help me with that, builder? I do prefer the liquid....

Bets

  One more time...a daily microtaper does NOT take longer than a C&H taper!!  In fact, because microtaper is generally more tolerable than a C&H, some folks find they can actually go more quickly with a daily taper. 

 

Whether you cut .5mg and hold 10 days, or cut .05 each day for 10 days, at the end of 10 days, you have cut .5mg.

[[bu...]]

I need the math equation in order to figure out the rest.

 

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=135284.msg1890432#msg1890432  See my post 2632.

 

[[bu...]]

because I am diluting 10:1 and pulling 2.5 ml and using a 5ml syringe, the tip is large and I think it does make a difference in measurement - liquid is clear and hard to see also - sorry everyone, having a very hard time with everything and no one to help at home.  I am a overwhelmed.

  A drop of food coloring would fix that, if its really a problem.

[[mr...]]

because I am diluting 10:1 and pulling 2.5 ml and using a 5ml syringe, the tip is large and I think it does make a difference in measurement - liquid is clear and hard to see also - sorry everyone, having a very hard time with everything and no one to help at home.  I am a overwhelmed.

  A drop of food coloring would fix that, if its really a problem.

 

I had trouble seeing the line once I went to the 1/2mL syringe.

I have a 3rd hand which has a magnifying glass on it that I use to see the line.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/zoom/third_hand_parts_holder.jpg

[[Mo...]]

Just FYI, I did C&H before I started daily taper.  I would NEVER do C&H again!!!

 

Even when C&H "worked", I still suffered 24-36 hours os misery after each cut (and I never cut more than 5%).  And most folks have sxs last 4-5 days, instead of 24-36 hours. 

 

If I had had access to liquid V in the beginning, and had known about daily microtaper, I would never have done a C&H.   Why would you not want to start a liquid, daily taper from the beginning?

 

I was thinking that starting the liquid from 70 mg would take much longer than cut and hold......But I do like the idea of using the liquid, which my pharmacy keeps in stock. BTW, I looked at your older posts and found the one where you tell gave me the #s on each progressive taper, down to 57 mg. But I need the math equation in order to figure out the rest. Can you help me with that, builder? I do prefer the liquid....

Bets

 

Betsy, I agree with Builder.

On cut and hold I had to wait so long till I felt okay again that it took me longer to cut a mgr than on daily taper.

Also, I used to cut 0.5 every two weeks or so, starting on 15 mgr! so, I also agree that on a dose of 70 mgr you could go faster at the start. But I understand if you want to keep at a rate of 14 days at the start.

I think Moyà used to cut at 1 mgr a week coming from 30 mgr?

 

Good luck.

[[Ma...]]

Hello all!

 

I have a question because I am switching over at least 1/3 of my dose to V and I am curious about V tapers. Wouldn't 5% of Bets dose be 3.5mg of V and she would cut that amount? Thanks!

 

XO Maya

[[ca...]]

Hello all!

 

I have a question because I am switching over at least 1/3 of my dose to V and I am curious about V tapers. Wouldn't 5% of Bets dose be 3.5mg of V and she would cut that amount? Thanks!

 

XO Maya

Maya , i believe she takes 70mg v 10% would be 7mg so yes 5% =  3.5 mg v 

[[be...]]

Thanks builder, Moodle and can do! I copied and pasted it on a WORD document.

[[Di...]]

Hi DP, builder, Moodle and others here:

 

I have a few options that have been given to me about my Valium taper. Of course I have access to the liquid V, and also access to the pills of any doses. I once asked builder if I could taper using liquid from the beginning, at 70 mg, and he said yes. DP suggested that I drop my .5 mg each week by cut and hold for a month, and then possibly up it to 1 mg the next month. But I am worried about cutting every week by that amount (1 mg), because most people do not make cuts every week.

 

Plus 1 mg per week is higher than 5 %.  And the progressive drops will be odd cuts, which I don't think I can eye ball. Valium has a long half life, with the three metabolites there, all of them benzos. So I am asking again, which method should I use? I don't want to cut anymore than 5% every 14 days.  builder, I lost the chart you gave me on my progressive taper. I'm sorry.  Also, can anyone give me the math equation on how to make my progressive drops? Any old or new ideas would be welcome. Thanks, Bets

 

You can start a liquid taper any time. The only reason I suggested waiting, and doing very small cuts and holding was because you seemed a bit confused about the titration method, but if you feel that would be the way for you to proceed, then by all means give it a go.

 

Suggesting you go to 1mg per week was ONLY if you were doing okay on the 0.5mg per week cut. Cutting 0.5mg per week would be a 3% cut every month and cutting 1mg every week would be just under 6% every month – so only marginally more than the 5% you’re aiming for. 

 

However, if you now want to cut 5% every 2 weeks that would be 3.5mg cut every 2 weeks, so that is a lot more. So first of all you really need to decide on a figure that you want to cut every 2 weeks or every 4 weeks, then a plan can be worked out for you.

 

 

 

I was thinking that starting the liquid from 70 mg would take much longer than cut and hold......But I do like the idea of using the liquid, which my pharmacy keeps in stock. BTW, I looked at your older posts and found the one where you tell gave me the #s on each progressive taper, down to 57 mg. But I need the math equation in order to figure out the rest. Can you help me with that, builder? I do prefer the liquid....

Bets

 

Liquid tapers don’t necessarily take longer. In fact they can be quicker because you’re not waiting to recover after making a much larger cut that shocked your body.

 

If you are happy to use the LV from your pharmacy, and assuming it’s the 1ml:1mg (or some say 10ml:10mg) ratio it will be very simple to work it out.

 

Seeing as this is all very new to you I would suggest using a 100ml solution, which you do by adding 1ml of the LV to 99ml of water. That will give you a 100ml solution.

 

Then once you worked out over how many days you want to reduce 1mg, divide the 100ml by that number..... Let’s say you’ve decided to reduce 5% every 2 weeks (as you said above) that would be 3.5mg every 2 weeks. Do you think you could manage that much? Maybe you might be better off doing the 5% (or 3.5mg) over 4 weeks. Anyway, I’ll give you a plan for both figures, then you can decide.

 

Cutting 5% every 14 days = 3.5mg every 14 days – or 1mg every 4 days - or 25ml per day of a 100ml solution

 

Day 1 – Drink the 100ml solution

Day 2 – Make a new solution and drink 75ml (you can either discard the rest or use it to make up part of your next day’s dose)

Day 3 – Make a new solution and drink 50ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 4 – Make a new solution and drink 25ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

 

Start the process again, but reduce the amount of tablets you are taking by 1mg, because you have now reduced your dose by 1mg.

 

Cutting 5% every 28 days = 3.5mg every 28 days – or 1mg every 8 days - or 12.5ml per day of a 100ml solution

 

Day 1 – Drink the 100ml solution (you can either discard the rest or use it to make up part of your next day’s dose)

Day 2 – Make a new solution and drink 87.5ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 3 – Make a new solution and drink 75ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 4 – Make a new solution and drink 62.5ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 5 – Make a new solution and drink 50ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 6 – Make a new solution and drink 37.5ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 7 – Make a new solution and drink 25ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 8 – Make a new solution and drink 12.5ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

 

Start the process again, but reduce the amount of tablets you are taking by 1mg, because you have now reduced your dose by 1mg.

 

[[bu...]]

This is a point where Pam and I disagree.

 

You do NOT have to make a new solution every day.

 

Per the schedules and procedures I have given you, make enough for 7-10 days, and just draw out wha you need each day.

 

In fact, also as we have discussed, at your dose and taper rate, you can use your liquid V directly...you don't even have to dilute it...you don't have to "make" anything.

 

Just check the schedules I have given you in the past.

[[Di...]]

Builder - I honestly do not understand why you keep saying that I advocate making a new solution every day - I DO NOT!!!!!! Seriously - I respect the input you have on BB, but I've brought this to your attention before, so I honestly don't understand why you keep saying it!!!!  Aggghhrrrrr!!!!! This is really frustrating!!!

 

If you go to the thread where I have the procedure for this method I quite clearly say "you can either discard the rest or use it to make up part of your next day’s dose". http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97511.msg1248599#msg1248599

 

Day 1 – Drink the 100ml solution

Day 2 – Make a new solution and drink 98ml (you can either discard the rest or use it to make up part of your next day’s dose)

Day 3 – Make a new solution and drink 96ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 4 – Make a new solution and drink 94ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 5 – Make a new solution and drink 92ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 6 – Make a new solution and drink 90ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

 

etc …….. until you reach zero. Then you would start the process again, but reduce the amount of tablets you are taking by 1mg, because you have now reduced your dose by 1mg. 

 

Admittedly I didn't on this ocassion, but that was a mistake on my part and would be the first time ever that I haven't said it. Normall when I give a suggested tapering plan I always do a copy and paste of what I've already written on that thread, but didn't on this occasion. I will be rectifying the post now. 

 

Bets can either dilute or not dilute. I prefer to dilute, even if she is pulling a larger amount, but it's her call.

[[Ma...]]

CD,

Thanks! I got confused because Bets cut 5% every two weeks with K and is doing 5% a month with V. To me that sounds very low for a higher dose, but I am sure she will figure it out. Not too much longer before you taper V. It will be nice to have smaller pills and liquid. Hopefully, my c/o goes well. Still figuring it out.

 

XO Maya 

[[pa...]]

oops, I mean SVT. 

 

Thanks mrtmeo. I don't think its's Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome. I do have this long time ago when I have panic attack while not sleeping. I'm scheduled to see my dr in Dec. So meanwhile, will just pray and hope this symptoms goes away gradually.

 

 

Hi buddies,

 

I have been having episodes of SVC almost every night this week.. during my taper, I don't rem having such episodes but of cos some panic attacks here and then.

 

This SVC or rapid heartbeat sets me off in great fear and I worried that something is wrong with my heart. I've done a detailed heart check up this year Jan and I don't think I should go for further tests. My heart bpm can goes up to 225 which is super fast isn't it?

 

I try to tell myself that this is withdrawal but failed at times. Yesterday night was worst and I've to beg my partner to admit me to ER. He stay firm and refuse to dial for ambulance and ask me to continue my breathing exercise.. I've no choice but to follow and took one tablet of atenolol shortly.

 

After an hour plus, my heart finally settle down. I notice that it always happen whenever I sleep. I've been taking the magnesium every day but seems like it is not helping much lately. Upping the dose will cause me to have diarrhoea so this is not an option. I also do not want to depend on atenolol as it makes me feel uncomfortable the following day.

 

Is there any other options that can help to relief the SVC?

 

 

Hi panic,

What do u mean by svc?

As far as Tachycardia, Zoloft can cause this as well as benzos.

Does your prescribing Dr know that you have bpm's around 225?

If the high heart rate only happens when you are lying down, this could be P.O.T.S. (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome).

http://www.dysautonomiainternational.org/page.php?ID=30

[[bu...]]

Builder - I honestly do not understand why you keep saying that I advocate making a new solution every day - I DO NOT!!!!!! Seriously - I respect the input you have on BB, but I've brought this to your attention before, so I honestly don't understand why you keep saying it!!!!  Aggghhrrrrr!!!!! This is really frustrating!!!

 

 

Bets can either dilute or not dilute. I prefer to dilute, even if she is pulling a larger amount, but it's her call.

 

 

Pam, I said that because that's what you proposed!  :

 

Day 1 – Drink the 100ml solution

Day 2 – Make a new solution and drink 75ml (you can either discard the rest or use it to make up part of your next day’s dose)

Day 3 – Make a new solution and drink 50ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 4 – Make a new solution and drink 25ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

 

Start the process again, but reduce the amount of tablets you are taking by 1mg, because you have now reduced your dose by 1mg.

 

Cutting 5% every 28 days = 3.5mg every 28 days – or 1mg every 8 days - or 12.5ml per day of a 100ml solution

Day 1 – Drink the 100ml solution (you can either discard the rest or use it to make up part of your next day’s dose)

Day 2 – Make a new solution and drink 87.5ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 3 – Make a new solution and drink 75ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 4 – Make a new solution and drink62.5ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 5 – Make a new solution and drink 50ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 6 – Make a new solution and drink 37.5ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 7 – Make a new solution and drink 25ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 8 – Make a new solution and drink 12.5ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

 

 

And I also advocate dilution.  But 1) Benzogirl was intimidated and confused about the calculations for diluted liquid, and 2) at her current dose and taper rate it really won't be necessary.  Hopefully once she gets started and gets more comfortable with lkiquid, by the time she needs tio make smaller reductions, it will al become more clear to her, and she can begin to use diluted liquid.

 

Your procedure and mine differ, but neither is wrong.  And folks can follow whatever protocol the feel comfortable.  But...

 

1)  You do NOT have to make a new batch each day.

2)  You do NOT have to start with a fixed volume (eg. 100ml)

3)  You do NOT have to remove your "cut".

 

Instead...

 

1)  You can prepare enough liquid for 10-14 days*

2)  and just draw out however much you need each day to make your liquid dose.

 

*  10-14 days is not recommended if your doing milk! 

 

Our difference is not what to do with the liquid that you drew out (discard or save), its about whether you draw out your cut, or whether to draw out your liquid dose.

 

 

:)

 

 

[[ca...]]

CD,

Thanks! I got confused because Bets cut 5% every two weeks with K and is doing 5% a month with V. To me that sounds very low for a higher dose, but I am sure she will figure it out. Not too much longer before you taper V. It will be nice to have smaller pills and liquid. Hopefully, my c/o goes well. Still figuring it out.

 

XO Maya 

Maya, your welcome not sure if i helped this last bit of .25 k is really hitting me hard makes no scence maybe somebody from this thread will have sugjestions as i really do not understand why it`s so hard i mean i am cutting but held for 4 days feel like i did not even hold! So frustrating !!!! ~CD