Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[ar...]]

Hi All,

 

I am on 1.28ml of liquid Diazepam.  I have my dosage spaced out at 6am and 5pm and I am taking .6ml at 6am and .68ml at 5pm.  I am holding and on my third day today I messed up.  I took .68ml at 6am and .6ml at 5pm.  I accidentally reversed them.  I know I should be OK but I need some reassurance... 

 

I reduce until both are equal.

 

Thanks for your help

[[mr...]]

Hi All,

 

I am on 1.28ml of liquid Diazepam.  I have my dosage spaced out at 6am and 5pm and I am taking .6ml at 6am and .68ml at 5pm.  I am holding and on my third day today I messed up.  I took .68ml at 6am and .6ml at 5pm.  I accidentally reversed them.  I know I should be OK but I need some reassurance... 

 

When I start reducing, I reduce the 5pm dosage until they're equal and then I start reducing the morning dosage.

 

Thanks for your help

Hi Arcade,

Valium has such a long half life that you don't have worry if you switched the doses.

[[ar...]]

Hi All,

 

I am on 1.28ml of liquid Diazepam.  I have my dosage spaced out at 6am and 5pm and I am taking .6ml at 6am and .68ml at 5pm.  I am holding and on my third day today I messed up.  I took .68ml at 6am and .6ml at 5pm.  I accidentally reversed them.  I know I should be OK but I need some reassurance... 

 

When I start reducing, I reduce the 5pm dosage until they're equal and then I start reducing the morning dosage.

 

Thanks for your help

 

 

Hi Arcade,

Valium has such a long half life that you don't have worry if you switched the doses.

 

Thank you MrT. 

[[or...]]

arcade, you'll be okay.

 

I actually FORGOT doses two or three times for several hours and was okay. And once I accidentally updosed from 2 mg to 3 mgs by 2 doses (a long, dumb story) and was still okay. Whew.

 

You'll be fine!

 

Okatz

[[ar...]]

arcade, you'll be okay.

 

I actually FORGOT doses two or three times for several hours and was okay. And once I accidentally updosed from 2 mg to 3 mgs by 2 doses (a long, dumb story) and was still okay. Whew.

 

You'll be fine!

 

Okatz

 

Thank you Katz.  I hope all is well with you post jump. 

[[or...]]

I'm doing pretty well, thanks, arcade. Just a few niggling symptoms . . . much less intense than they were in actual w/d. Mostly the dizzies now and then.

 

Hope you are doing well.

 

Okatz

[[Se...]]

Second day after step down from 2.5 mg to 2.0 mg. Slept well again (> 7 hours), even without a sleep aid. However, today is much tougher than yesterday was. Wave of withdrawal symptoms rolled in about 10 am. Experiencing mild sweats, tinnitus, and brain fog. Have no appetite. Feel tired, weak, and depressed. Lack motivation or focus to do anything. Part of the problem could be that I inadvertently skipped my oxycodone dose yesterday evening.  Need to count my blessings and grin and bear it.

[[st...]]

Second day after step down from 2.5 mg to 2.0 mg. Slept well again (> 7 hours), even without a sleep aid. However, today is much tougher than yesterday was. Wave of withdrawal symptoms rolled in about 10 am. Experiencing mild sweats, tinnitus, and brain fog. Have no appetite. Feel tired, weak, and depressed. Lack motivation or focus to do anything. Part of the problem could be that I inadvertently skipped my oxycodone dose yesterday evening.  Need to count my blessings and grin and bear it.

 

Hey,

 

It is somewhat --  but not entirely surprising to me -- that you are this symptomatic on such a relatively low dose for such a short period of time. It would seem that you are one of the lucky ones (yes, lucky)  that has recognized that that you are highly compatible with Valium.

 

It can be very seductive. Resist as if your life depends upon it.

 

Steve

 

 

[[st...]]

An update on your truly.

 

Standing in front of the medicine cabinet last night, looking into the mirror, I was trying to decide how much Valium to take. 3mg? 2mg? 1? 5?

 

No. Each and every time we take, we cause a down regulation. Every time. I decided to no more harm.

 

The only way out of this fire-storm we are is to walk through the fire to avoid getting consumed. We all get burned.

 

So I took .36mg, back to my taper. And we shall see. Oddly the tinnitus is gone today. But the Valium from the last several days will keep decreasing and unless something strange is going on, it will reappear. But I'm ready for it.

 

I have refrained from calling this stuff poison, as it seemed better for me to not think that way.

 

That has changed. I need to get this poison out of my system and heal.

 

I wish I hadn't needed to up-dose. But I had to to get out of that horror show, and I really won't 2nd guess myself and succumb to the fallacy of the predetermined outcome, as I felt I had no choice.

 

Kind thanks to all of you who have helped me in this latest horrible episode and along the way.

 

Again, I love you all.

 

Steve 

 

 

[[et...]]

An update on your truly.

 

Standing in front of the medicine cabinet last night, looking into the mirror, I was trying to decide how much Valium to take. 3mg? 2mg? 1? 5?

 

No. Each and every time we take, we cause a down regulation. Every time. I decided to no more harm.

 

The only way out of this fire-storm we are is to walk through the fire to avoid getting consumed. We all get burned.

 

So I took .36mg, back to my taper. And we shall see. Oddly the tinnitus is gone today. But the Valium from the last several days will keep decreasing and unless something strange is going on, it will reappear. But I'm ready for it.

 

I have refrained from calling this stuff poison, as it seemed better for me to not think that way.

 

That has changed. I need to get this poison out of my system and heal.

 

I wish I hadn't needed to up-dose. But I had to to get out of that horror show, and I really won't 2nd guess myself and succumb to the fallacy of the predetermined outcome, as I felt I had no choice.

 

Kind thanks to all of you who have helped me in this latest horrible episode and along the way.

 

Again, I love you all.

 

Steve 

 

Way to go Steve. Don't beat yourself up.  Heads up in 5 to 7 days and a few rough ones and then back to the business of getting off. True healing begins with off.

etown

[[Ma...]]

Hello all!

 

I was hoping to get some advice on a C/O to Valium from klonopin. I did not find the taper boards to be helpful. I took 2mg 3x a day (6mg) a day most of my time taking klonopin. Then when I got to 4mg I had to dose 4x. I just got to 3mg and now I have to dose 6x. It is getting ridiculous. I have been having problems with interdose wd for awhile. I think it is time I added Valium. I recently did some genetic testing and plan to do more. I metabolize klonopin very fast. I also have a NAT2 gene mutation that can cause klonopin to be problematic or even cause neurotoxicity. I think maybe a complete c/o would eventually be best, but I want to start with a small one to make sure I tolerate it ok. I have heard it can be sedating and depressing. In my at least 7 years in tolerance wd those were my worse sxs. That and the time it would take are the reasons I didn't try to c/o in the past. According to my genetic testing, I would metabolize Valium fast in phase I in the liver enzymes, but it does have a longer half life. Also in phase II with the metabolites I would metabolize it very well. Also my genetic mutation for NAT2 would not affect Valium. I see my pdoc on Tues. 3 months ago, he told me that Valium doesn't have a longer half life and there is no need to switch. I know he is very misinformed. He also doesn't believe in benzo wd syndrome, but thinks I am some weird sensitive very rare case. He has just told me to do what I want. I think I can convince him to give me Valium. He obviously will be of no help. I don't know how much to start with, which doses to switch etc. I am sorry for babbling on. I am having a rough time and I could really use some advice. I am dosing every 3 hrs besides when I sleep. I can't wake up to dose because I will probably have trouble falling back asleep and I need my sleep. Today I dosed at 9am, 12pm, 3pm, 6pm, and 12am. My doses are all even. Each dose is .5mg. I would greatly appreciate any help! Thank so much!

 

XO Maya

[[Sm...]]

An update on your truly.

 

Standing in front of the medicine cabinet last night, looking into the mirror, I was trying to decide how much Valium to take. 3mg? 2mg? 1? 5?

 

No. Each and every time we take, we cause a down regulation. Every time. I decided to no more harm.

 

The only way out of this fire-storm we are is to walk through the fire to avoid getting consumed. We all get burned.

 

So I took .36mg, back to my taper. And we shall see. Oddly the tinnitus is gone today. But the Valium from the last several days will keep decreasing and unless something strange is going on, it will reappear. But I'm ready for it.

 

I have refrained from calling this stuff poison, as it seemed better for me to not think that way.

 

That has changed. I need to get this poison out of my system and heal.

 

I wish I hadn't needed to up-dose. But I had to to get out of that horror show, and I really won't 2nd guess myself and succumb to the fallacy of the predetermined outcome, as I felt I had no choice.

 

Kind thanks to all of you who have helped me in this latest horrible episode and along the way.

 

Again, I love you all.

 

Steve 

 

I concure.. it aint hyperbole.. it really is poison. I've never seen a substance consume a life in the fire - to continue your metaphor - quite like benzos. And yes, we will all get burned no matter what.

May it be at a tolerable level as you prepare to say a goodbye and good riddance to the poison

[[pe...]]

Maya what tool are you using to analayise your genetic data..i have mine and would like to know what i would to work it out.

[[ar...]]

Hello all!

 

I was hoping to get some advice on a C/O to Valium from klonopin. I did not find the taper boards to be helpful. I took 2mg 3x a day (6mg) a day most of my time taking klonopin. Then when I got to 4mg I had to dose 4x. I just got to 3mg and now I have to dose 6x. It is getting ridiculous. I have been having problems with interdose wd for awhile. I think it is time I added Valium. I recently did some genetic testing and plan to do more. I metabolize klonopin very fast. I also have a NAT2 gene mutation that can cause klonopin to be problematic or even cause neurotoxicity. I think maybe a complete c/o would eventually be best, but I want to start with a small one to make sure I tolerate it ok. I have heard it can be sedating and depressing. In my at least 7 years in tolerance wd those were my worse sxs. That and the time it would take are the reasons I didn't try to c/o in the past. According to my genetic testing, I would metabolize Valium fast in phase I in the liver enzymes, but it does have a longer half life. Also in phase II with the metabolites I would metabolize it very well. Also my genetic mutation for NAT2 would not affect Valium. I see my pdoc on Tues. 3 months ago, he told me that Valium doesn't have a longer half life and there is no need to switch. I know he is very misinformed. He also doesn't believe in benzo wd syndrome, but thinks I am some weird sensitive very rare case. He has just told me to do what I want. I think I can convince him to give me Valium. He obviously will be of no help. I don't know how much to start with, which doses to switch etc. I am sorry for babbling on. I am having a rough time and I could really use some advice. I am dosing every 3 hrs besides when I sleep. I can't wake up to dose because I will probably have trouble falling back asleep and I need my sleep. Today I dosed at 9am, 12pm, 3pm, 6pm, and 12am. My doses are all even. Each dose is .5mg. I would greatly appreciate any help! Thank so much!

 

XO Maya

 

Maya,

 

If you don't get an answer here, contact SG57.  He is really good with crossover help.  Take a look at his past postings.  I hope the crossover works well.  Your dosing now sounds like a pain in the butt.

[[li...]]

I realize that some of you may get annoyed at my repeated and failed attempts to switch. Well, so do I.

 

Afternoon dose today, I felt somewhat drunk. Somewhat messy.

 

My response to this drug is somewhat chaotic, perhaps this applies to clonazepam as well. Perhaps less so.

 

After reviewing the data, it seems that diazepam bind to different receptors (combinations, alpha subunits and such), but also to different parts of the brain.

 

Compare: http://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00829 and http://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB01068

(pharmacodynamics)

 

Isn't feeling cold or 'fevers' (thalamus?) a frequent symptoms of diazepam tapers ?

 

I think that if I wanted to go through with this, it would take many months for my body to adapt to the diazepam. And then I'd likely get a host of other problems. And then I'd probably have to stay on it for a long time, to recover ...

It's  really not for me. I'm a bit like hiphopanonymous, without the obvious drama.

 

Docs messed me up real bad. Crazy ideas like tapering with oxazepam (duration of action 6-7 hours), lorazepam, an addiction doc's advice that was followed by the GP. And worse ...

In essence, I'm screwing around.

 

I'll have to see what to do ... messed up so bad ... I won't keep posting, that would only annoy you. I wouldn't get better either.

 

The idea of tapering a benzo with another benzo that binds to different benzo receptors (at the very least, relatively speaking) ...

[[Ma...]]

Pete,

 

I did 23andme DNA ancestry test. Then downloaded my raw genetic data to MTHRsuppprt.com (sterling app) which just gave the info without interpreting it. It is confusing. Then I also downloaded to livewell.com which did some interpreting for me like I am rapid metabolizer CY2C19 and that I have a NAT2 gene mutation. Tomorrow I will ask my Dr to order tests specifically just for medication from genelex.com. He just has to sign something, so I am sure he will. He doesn't care about it. It is better to get those tests or have a dr who can interpret the others.

 

Arcade,

I just wrote to him. I was hoping to also get some advice and suggestions here. My pdoc will be off no help. The dosing is annoying and the interdose wd is still there. I fear it will continue to get worse as I go lower like he has been doing. Hopefully, I tolerate Valium well and can maybe even do a complete c/o eventually because klonopin is problematic. The NAT2 gene mutation concerns me. I will know more in about a week with more testing. I also know I metabolize k too fast and I need a longer half life. Thank you!

 

XO Maya

[[mr...]]

Liberty,

If you want to stick with the benzo that caused your receptor damage, klonopin, then why don't you taper off of that?

Klonopin is longer acting.

Switching to valium provides the option of a long lasting benzo to allow for a smoother taper, but can't cover all of the damage done by a different benzo.

For ex, Ativan just doesn't last long enuf for a smooth taper, so valium is a better choice for some.

 

My mom's respiratory center was damaged from ativan and it took an ativan to correct it, but it only lasted for 2hrs.

She was not able to wait 6 hours til her next dose.

This is where valium worked well enuf.

After a week she was able to hold out until the 6 hrs til the next dose, but it didn't completely correct the respiratory problem.

It did help a little to keep her stable on oxygen.

 

[[li...]]

Thanks, but tapering clonzepam is so ... rough, physical ... in ways that are almost incomprehensible.

 

For example, comparing diazepam and clonazepam. One difference would be, reduced energy/functioning/cognitive issues late afternoon and after that. With diazepam, instead of that increased heart rate and adrenaline.

Probably more  cortisol on clonazepam, more adrenalin on diazepam.

 

It's not only the clonazepam. Health, past polypharmacy (anticholinergics). Not to mention my reduced ability to tolerate clonazepam after dealing with the lorazepam.

 

One embarassing 'detail' (hardly!), dose cuts affect bladder/smooth muscle/intestines. Cognitive function as well. Probably related to acetylcholine/muscarinic receptors.

24 hour drama, especially when I digest food, rest in bed ...

And worse. From past tapers I know that I have to start from a position of strength, at that it would take 5-6 months to do a proper taper. My last attempt caused cardiac arrythmia and more.

 

I'm under the influence of diazepam. I'll have to figure out what to do.

Also, I'm probably hypothyroid, there is hypercortisolism, I couldn't get help for almost anything, severe kindling. Worse. Maybe not as much drama as with hiphopanonymous, but it is really bad.

 

I'm thinking of detox again, but they would either want to do a 6 week diazepam 'taper', or an oxazepam taper (duration: 6 hours) and uncover what causes the  physical dependence (anxiety or depression, they would want to give me an antidepressant ??). What about long term use causing physical dependence !

 

Maybe taking two daily doses would help with some issues, however it would exacerbate some many others. The worst drug in the world.

 

I've seen people getting tested for genetic mutations, they don't do that kind of stuff here ! All 'natural' (!what is natural about this!)

 

Sorry about the 'outburst'. Basically, I'm in an impossible situation. I'll just have to give this some thought. It would take about a week to get all the diazepam out of the body !

 

Tt's probably more about 'damage' to cholinergic neurons (possibly involving serotonin as well) than 'damage' to GABA. As weird as it sounds, maybe clonazepam depletes GABA in some fashion !

[[mr...]]

Liberty,

My mom has been on an anticholinergic/muscarinic inhaler both times she withdrew.

I had her off the spiriva inhaler for 3 months, but her symptoms didn't get any better.

It is never wise to just ct because this can put the cns in a shock which can cause extreme protracted withdrawal.

This is why folks taper.

Tapering allows the body to gradually make the repairs based on the ever decreasing doses.

Just like it took time for the drug to do its damage and the cns adapted, so we have to allow time for the cns to reverse this.

Regardless of intense symptoms while tapering, the tapering does allow healing at a gentler rate than ct.

[[ar...]]

Liberty,

My mom has been on an anticholinergic/muscarinic inhaler both times she withdrew.

I had her off the spiriva inhaler for 3 months, but her symptoms didn't get any better.

It is never wise to just ct because this can put the cns in a shock which can cause extreme protracted withdrawal.

This is why folks taper.

Tapering allows the body to gradually make the repairs based on the ever decreasing doses.

Just like it took time for the drug to do its damage and the cns adapted, so we have to allow time for the cns to reverse this.

Regardless of intense symptoms while tapering, the tapering does allow healing at a gentler rate than ct.

 

I agree.  One big hell that could lead to protracted w/d or baby hells that will decrease your chance of protracted w/d...

 

You'll have symptoms in tapering that you will have to cope with anyway but it won't shock your CNS as much.

[[li...]]

Liberty,

My mom has been on an anticholinergic/muscarinic inhaler both times she withdrew.

I had her off the spiriva inhaler for 3 months, but her symptoms didn't get any better.

It is never wise to just ct because this can put the cns in a shock which can cause extreme protracted withdrawal.

This is why folks taper.

Tapering allows the body to gradually make the repairs based on the ever decreasing doses.

Just like it took time for the drug to do its damage and the cns adapted, so we have to allow time for the cns to reverse this.

Regardless of intense symptoms while tapering, the tapering does allow healing at a gentler rate than ct.

 

I agree.  One big hell that could lead to protracted w/d or baby hells that will decrease your chance of protracted w/d...

 

You'll have symptoms in tapering that you will have to cope with anyway but it won't shock your CNS as much.

 

Up to a point I agree. But if the cuts don't go reasonable well, they can grind you to a pulp over 6 months. And taking doses below tolerance (wherever that is at the moment ...) is just damaging.

[[li...]]

I think I need a plan C.

 

Not a vanilla clonazepam taper, not diazepam/Librium. ?

[[et...]]

Liberty,

I will try to be kind. You seem to have a lot of knowledge about the drugs and how they work etc etc. This is all pretty much useless information IMO. What you really need is some common sense. You need to taper a Benzo. The plan C is to forget all the useless knowledge and overthinking this process and just do it. Your best chance for success hands down is to eventually cross over to valium and get this done. The more you think about it, the more you talk to yourself which is a dangerous game.

Just do it!

etown

[[mr...]]

Liberty,

My mom has been on an anticholinergic/muscarinic inhaler both times she withdrew.

I had her off the spiriva inhaler for 3 months, but her symptoms didn't get any better.

It is never wise to just ct because this can put the cns in a shock which can cause extreme protracted withdrawal.

This is why folks taper.

Tapering allows the body to gradually make the repairs based on the ever decreasing doses.

Just like it took time for the drug to do its damage and the cns adapted, so we have to allow time for the cns to reverse this.

Regardless of intense symptoms while tapering, the tapering does allow healing at a gentler rate than ct.

 

I agree.  One big hell that could lead to protracted w/d or baby hells that will decrease your chance of protracted w/d...

 

You'll have symptoms in tapering that you will have to cope with anyway but it won't shock your CNS as much.

 

Up to a point I agree. But if the cuts don't go reasonable well, they can grind you to a pulp over 6 months. And taking doses below tolerance (wherever that is at the moment ...) is just damaging.

Liberty,

The damage done by benzo's is while on them, but when tapering, repair is happening and the damage is less due to less benzo's. Getting on benzo's in the first place causes the damage and you can either taper off at a pace that works with your body's repair, or you can taper too fast and suffer worse.

With benzo's we don't have much of a choice and etown is exactly right.

IMHO, I would not use librium.

[[Se...]]

Third day after step down from 2.5 mg to 2.0 mg. Slept okay again (> 6 hours) without a sleep aid. However, today is again tougher than yesterday was. No break in withdrawal symptoms. Experiencing flushing of face and upper torso, weakness, and mild sweats and tinnitus. But the biggest problem is exacerbation of my gastritis/acid reflux, for which I am already taking Dexilant. As it is, I’m barely able to digest enough nutrients to sustain me. Overall, it feels like I have the flu (but I don’t, because my temperature is 98.7 deg. F.

 

I had planned two more days at 2.0 mg before going to 1.5 mg, but if the symptoms continue to get worse, I’m considering holding until they get better and then making smaller cuts. As I said in an earlier post, I’m concerned that the train might have already left the station for a rapid taper. Yet I imagine a number of you are thinking, did he not get our message? Suck it up, bite the bullet, and get off ASAP!