Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[cr...]]

Would you please read my post 2569 on the Ashton Taper Cut/Hold Support Group?  I am having horrible depression. Thank you. Cross

[[mr...]]

Mrtmeo - thanks for the encouragement on the MFHTR gene. I am taking such a low, low dose of lithium (.1 ml. lithium citrate equivalent to 6 mg. lithium carbonate - compared to the usual therapeutic dose of 1,500 mg.) that I'm hoping it won't cause harm. I read the link you sent. It seems that ALL drugs cause some harm. But I can't keep going on like I am. I have to try something, and I can't tolerate antidepressant side effects. I don't know what to do.

 

MirandaJane

 

Hi mj,

Does it help your symptoms when you hold your dose?

Are you eating well?

[[mr...]]

Would you please read my post 2569 on the Ashton Taper Cut/Hold Support Group?  I am having horrible depression. Thank you. Cross

Hi Cross,

If you are referring to this post

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97834.msg1927313#msg1927313

 

Depression can be bad with valium, but it can be just as bad or worse with other benzo's.

My mom only had boughts that lasted a few hours when she would be hit with a wave, but I never found anything, other than, distraction, to work to get thru it.

Drug induced depression is really bad and am sorry you are going thru it.

Perhaps, someone else has some ideas to help.

 

[[bu...]]

Hi buddies,

 

I have been having episodes of SVC almost every night this week.. during my taper, I don't rem having such episodes but of cos some panic attacks here and then.

 

This SVC or rapid heartbeat sets me off in great fear and I worried that something is wrong with my heart. I've done a detailed heart check up this year Jan and I don't think I should go for further tests. My heart bpm can goes up to 225 which is super fast isn't it?

 

I try to tell myself that this is withdrawal but failed at times. Yesterday night was worst and I've to beg my partner to admit me to ER. He stay firm and refuse to dial for ambulance and ask me to continue my breathing exercise.. I've no choice but to follow and took one tablet of atenolol shortly.

 

After an hour plus, my heart finally settle down. I notice that it always happen whenever I sleep. I've been taking the magnesium every day but seems like it is not helping much lately. Upping the dose will cause me to have diarrhoea so this is not an option. I also do not want to depend on atenolol as it makes me feel uncomfortable the following day.

 

Is there any other options that can help to relief the SVC?

 

 

Hi panic,

What do u mean by svc?

As far as Tachycardia, Zoloft can cause this as well as benzos.

Does your prescribing Dr know that you have bpm's around 225?

If the high heart rate only happens when you are lying down, this could be P.O.T.S. (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome).

http://www.dysautonomiainternational.org/page.php?ID=30

 

"Superior vena cava syndrome (SVCS) is obstruction of blood flow through the superior vena cava (SVC). It is a medical emergency and most often manifests in patients with a malignant disease process within the thorax. A patient with SVCS requires immediate diagnostic evaluation and therapy."

 

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/460865-overview

[[st...]]

Hi,

 

I’m making this post because I have been blown away by recent events in my life and the responses I have received.

 

Over the last several weeks, and particularly the last week or so, I have been feeling physically and -- aside from horrific life events – emotionally worse than I have ever felt.

 

I have received very kind and thoughtful and caring responses from BB and especially Smiff,  Moodle, and FluterByee. So thank you all so much. Love you all.

 

What happened? I tapered too fast. I swore I wouldn’t and didn’t think I was; but I did. From 20mg to 5mg in about a year, that was ok. Symptoms, even intense symptoms, came and went. But I was healing. As my p-doc reminded me today, she had mentioned to me that under 5 it tends to get harder and asked (gently) if I wanted to slow down. But I was encouraged by the previous year and didn’t listen.

 

But then (a lot of buts here!), then, things began to get hairy at maybe 4 something. And continued. But I saw the light at the end of the tunnel. I ignored symptoms; kept thinking they’d go away like they had. I felt brave. But the last couple of months, on and off frequent intense vertigo; intense like I'd hold on so as not to fall vertigo; like I'd want to throw up vertigo;  other fun stuff too. Finally, over the last week, to quote part of Smiff’s signature which I read and tucked away in my mind from April of 2014  “all benzo hell broke out.” I updosed (I had sworn I’d never do that as I considered it to be harmful) significantly from .38 mg/day to 6mg/day 2 days running. The intense tinnitus, intense vertigo, stomach cramps, vomiting, neck spasms, near falling – all at the same time; bent over in pain crying, wanting mom and dad to hold me and say it would be alright --  subsided; not exactly well, but back to ok.

 

At work today, I was teary thinking about you guys, and the people in my life. I am so lucky. My family, my friends, my p-doc, and other physicians I see on a regular basis (not many, fortunately) are all so incredibly nice. Everyone currently in my life, which includes you all, is so incredibly nice. My p-doc today gave me pills (to replace the script I had triumphantly torn up a while back) to help me stabilize, for a month, at my own discretion.

 

All good (ok’ish, as some folk here and I say).

 

Thanks again!

 

Steve

 

 

PS – SetFreeForever, you were also on my mind as I wrote this. I was as you are 40 years ago. People tend to grasp at anything to sleep. I did. You get desperate and take a pill. I now wish I had not slept for days back then and felt horrible and sickened. In December of 2013, when my tolerance peaked, and I slept 2 -3 hours per night for weeks, I desperately washed down my Valium with Vodka. I could have died then and there. Like Thomas Kinkade did.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_20574343/coroner-artist-kinkade-died-accidently-from-overdose-alcohol

 

[[Mi...]]

mrtmeo - I am eating as well as can be expected due to my gastroparesis. I don't hold my dose - I'm microtapering - .05 mg. per night. This is going to take me forever.

 

Thanks,

MirandaJane

[[mr...]]

mrtmeo - I am eating as well as can be expected due to my gastroparesis. I don't hold my dose - I'm microtapering - .05 mg. per night. This is going to take me forever.

 

Thanks,

MirandaJane

Hi mj,

Have you tried magnesium for the gastroparesis or acupuncture for the gastroparesis?

Psych meds can really cause serious problems with digestion.

Bone broths are very helpful to get those micronutrients without problems with absorption.

I pray your GI problems get better soon.

[[or...]]

steve I am so sorry to hear of your troubles. Yes, it's darned hard not to get seduced by the light at the end of he tunnel, isn't it? And the s/x you describe sound awful -- familiar, but awful. Oh, the sick dizzies! I remember them well. 

 

I'm gad your pdoc cooperated and helped you out with a new script. So you are back up at 6 mgs. Well, it couldn't be helped. Now, you'll come down again. Yup, under 5 it sure does get harder.

 

Try not to beat yourself up about this my friend.

 

I hope you continue to feel better and that those awful s/x subside even more.

Thinking about you,

 

Okatz

[[Sm...]]

I'm bad today. Nightmares all night. Panic attack all morning. Then took a tiny bit of clonidine (not klonopin) to calm down and have been spacey and depressed ever since. I've spent too much of my life being depressed. Don't want it any more. The lithium is supposed to help with my "overexcited" neurotransmitters. Guess I have to try it a while longer. I'm desperate, so desperate. Since I've learned that my MTHFR gene is so bad, I feel I don't have hope of living a contented life, even if I get off benzos. So much sorrow today.

 

MirandaJane

 

MJ. I don't wanna dimish your feelings but it is my understanding the MTHFR gene is not THAT bad. I am homozygous C677T. It aint that bad really. It can make some things a little harder but you can get around it with the right supplements. If it was THAT bad then there would be a lot of people very sick indeed.

 

This is from MTHFR.net

"... I have found the majority of my patients (about 75%) have at least a single MTHFR mutation and upwards of 40% of my patients have a double mutation (either heterozygous (one of each) A1298C & C677T, homozygous (two) C677T or homozygous A1298C). The other doctors in my office also find similar percentages amongst their adult patients. Many research journals confirm similar frequencies, but often only test one or the other mutations. So this is a very common mutation – don’t let anyone convince you otherwise."

 

http://mthfr.net/mthfr-basics-from-dr-erlich/2012/03/01/

 

 

[[Sm...]]

Thank you all for your heart-felt responses. I will step down from 2.5 mg to 2 mg tonight and then hopefully reduce the dose by 0.5 mg every five days thereafter. That would put me at zero in twenty days.  However, I am concerned that the train might have already left the station with regard to hopes for a quick withdrawal. My concern is exacerbated when I see that most of your tapers beyond 2 mg/day are much, much slower than what the Ashton Manual suggests. I can only try and hope for the best.

 

Insomnia is catching up with me. Didn’t take anything for insomnia last night and woke up after 5.3 hours with back pain. Oxycodone knocked out the back pain, but, again, I could not get back to sleep. Will take Unisom tonight and hopefully sleep the whole night.

 

You will be a bit dependent at this point already no doubt. Withdrawing will still be unpleasant. But I'm confident it will be over relatively soon and wont be as bad as withdrawing if you were on valium very much longer.

Yes we all slow down considerably below 2mg but we have a far greater dependency due to extended use.

Let us know how you go

[[Mi...]]

Smiff - thanks for the encouragement about MTHFR. I have two heterozygote MTHFR variants, two homogzygote COMT variants, two hetero VDR (vitamin D) variants, two hetero MTRR variants, a homo MAO variant, two homo BHMT variants and one hetero CBS variant, so I have a lot to deal with. I understand that some of them can't be treated at this point. But today the lithium seems to be helping with the depression. It's supposed to help with anxiety too, but hasn't yet. I'll give it more time. Thanks for the link. Your support is appreciated!

 

MirandaJane

[[Sm...]]

Smiff - thanks for the encouragement about MTHFR. I have two heterozygote MTHFR variants, two homogzygote COMT variants, two hetero VDR (vitamin D) variants, two hetero MTRR variants, a homo MAO variant, two homo BHMT variants and one hetero CBS variant, so I have a lot to deal with. I understand that some of them can't be treated at this point. But today the lithium seems to be helping with the depression. It's supposed to help with anxiety too, but hasn't yet. I'll give it more time. Thanks for the link. Your support is appreciated!

 

MirandaJane

 

I have a bunch of stuff too.. you'd be surprised but I can see having the homo COMT, MAO plus MTHFR isn't an easy combo. What did you take to treat the MTHFR? I take a crap load of methyl folate and methylb12 but I know they can be wary about giving that to COMT (I'm hetero COMT but that means nothing really). I always thought it was kinda odd to not give methyl groups to COMT people since methyl groups are needed to get COMT to do its work.

[[Te...]]

steve I am so sorry to hear of your troubles. Yes, it's darned hard not to get seduced by the light at the end of he tunnel, isn't it? And the s/x you describe sound awful -- familiar, but awful. Oh, the sick dizzies! I remember them well. 

 

I'm gad your pdoc cooperated and helped you out with a new script. So you are back up at 6 mgs. Well, it couldn't be helped. Now, you'll come down again. Yup, under 5 it sure does get harder.

 

Try not to beat yourself up about this my friend.

 

I hope you continue to feel better and that those awful s/x subside even more.

Thinking about you,

 

Okatz

 

Katz,

Congratulations for your jump,  It's good to be free of benzo, I will follow you soon, I'm 1 mg per day, taking only one dose.

I will be jumping on December 24,  yeah!!!!

 

 

TEX

 

[[or...]]

Congratulations for your jump,  It's good to be free of benzo, I will follow you soon, I'm 1 mg per day, taking only one dose.

I will be jumping on December 24,  yeah!!!!

 

Thank you, Tex. And jumping on Dec 24 . . .  what a great Xmas present to yourself!

[[Se...]]

Stepped down from 2.5 mg to 2.0 mg last night. Slept well (> 7 hours) with a Unisom sleep tab (doxylamine succinate, not diphenylhydramine).  Mild to moderate headache was the only nuisance today.

 

Steve, I’m so sorry for your recent experience. Your perseverance is inspiring and humbling, leaving no excuse for the likes of me to complain. Also motivates me to take Smiff’s admonitions seriously and to be grateful for her telling me it like it is.

 

[[Sm...]]

Stepped down from 2.5 mg to 2.0 mg last night. Slept well (> 7 hours) with a Unisom sleep tab (doxylamine succinate, not diphenylhydramine).  Mild to moderate headache was the only nuisance today.

 

Steve, I’m so sorry for your recent experience. Your perseverance is inspiring and humbling, leaving no excuse for the likes of me to complain. Also motivates me to take Smiff’s admonitions seriously and to be grateful for her telling me it like it is.

 

I certainly didn't mean to admonish SFF. I did just notice you are on lyrica That may complicate the dependence/withdrawal picture but it is hard to know yet. Time will tell. Keep letting us know how you are going 

[[mr...]]

I will be jumping on December 24,  yeah!!!!

TEX

Awesome, TEX!

[[st...]]

steve I am so sorry to hear of your troubles. Yes, it's darned hard not to get seduced by the light at the end of he tunnel, isn't it? And the s/x you describe sound awful -- familiar, but awful. Oh, the sick dizzies! I remember them well. 

 

I'm gad your pdoc cooperated and helped you out with a new script. So you are back up at 6 mgs. Well, it couldn't be helped. Now, you'll come down again. Yup, under 5 it sure does get harder.

 

Try not to beat yourself up about this my friend.

 

I hope you continue to feel better and that those awful s/x subside even more.

Thinking about you,

 

Okatz

 

Thank you so much Oregon!!!

 

And thank you others who PM'd me as well. So appppppreciated!!

 

I'm so sorry you had that as well!

 

How are you doing??? And congrats to you!!! (Not sure if you saw my original congrats.)

 

I actually will not be staying at 6. I re-got tinnitus after subsequent 3 and 5 and so this experiment is quickly over before I get myself in more trouble. I'll just have to deal. I'm ready for it now (NOT really)!  But this time I will heed warning signs. (Hope I'm not in trouble already.)

 

Thank you again...

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

[[xa...]]

Well I will jump the first november in 3 weeks from 0,33 mg the last daily dose I'm currently on. Hopefully it won't be as violent as cold turkey. Between 2mg and 3mg I was cutting 0,15 mg every step and once I reached 2mg I cut 0,33 again every step and though it was hard I managed it. At the worst case if I fail jumping from this last 0,33 mg drop do I risk to reinstate at a higher dose or only to this 0,33 mg ? I come from far and for more than three years my body and its autonomy were destroyed by polydrugs and it is the valium, though it's a poison, which saved me stopping having seizures. But I fear having seizures even from jumping at this low dose.

[[li...]]

When to pick the 'cut and hold' support group, and when this one ? 

 

Okay, pretty much out of desperation - tolerating the clonazepam is so hard- I am giving diazepam another try.

 

For now, straight switch from 2 mg.

Early afternoon I took 15 mg diazepam. I felt 'drunk' at first. Has anyone ever had that after a switch to diazepam ? Now a bit cold.

 

I'll probably be taking 35-40 mg diazepam today. Two main doses and a small one in between.

[[or...]]

liberty:

 

Early afternoon I took 15 mg diazepam. I felt 'drunk' at first. Has anyone ever had that after a switch to diazepam ?

 

When I switched to valium from Ativan I felt dopey and sedated. I was falling over my feet. That passed in about a week . . . it became less and less noticeable every day. I think many of us felt that way after our crossover.

[[li...]]

Well, thanks.

 

My case is a bit different in the sense that so much more is going on, multiple failed tapers, quite messed up. Clonazepam is an extremely rough drug. I can´t do a symptoms based taper, ´Ashton´ doesn´t apply.

Strangely, I haven´t felt depressed yet. Probably only a matter of time.

 

I´m already tolerant to the sedating, hypnotic and amnestic properties of lorazepam (failed taper).

Recently I took it for one day, and I noticed that the tolerance was still there. Meaning, that after five months my brain had not reverted to a pre-lorazepam state.

[[li...]]

In truth, I feel I don´t have a clue about what I´m doing.

 

Some of the issues I mentioned in my previous post.

For me, there is just no applicable framework. A benzo is not a benzo.

Extremely concerned about getting dependent on the diazepam, not being able to get off in a proper way, and having to withdraw from both diazepam and clonazepam.

 

A long, slow, diazepam taper ? Being on 20+ mg for many months ? Kindled already.

 

I took the clonazepam for physical reasons, of course I get physical symptoms ... Docs don´t know about that.

[[et...]]

Liberty....are you in tolerance?

etown

[[li...]]

Well, I suppose you could say that. Clonazepam has a rather harsh side effect profile.

 

40 mg diazepam isn't a picnic either.

 

And there are some other health issues, some of which are at least partly related to the clonazepam.

I got the 'you're on that drug ? we won't take you seriously' attitude from more than one doc.'

 

The diazepam doesn't feel sedating. Weird. Maybe it's the weather/season.

I think I'm getting a sense of what benzo rage is ... Poor Kittensic. At least she got a chance for an extended detox, rather than a 6 week stay. Cruel, but maybe it will help.