Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[cr...]]

Jumpers everywhere.  Etown.........couldn't be happier for you.......MEGA CONGRATS‼️‼️. Cross

[[be...]]

Hey Moo:

 

I told you that I would be back! I wanted to post this here, as well as micro taper. Question. My planned taper off 70 mg of Valium (using liquid V and pills) seems too fast for me. I was planning a micro taper 5% every 14 days. I noticed that it took builder 2 years to taper off 9 mg.  And Okatz had a very difficult taper from 15 mg, which took 33 months. These are waay slow tapers to me. Mine seems very rushed. Since you know I am stupid when it comes to math, and builder gave me the amount to cut every 14 days down to 57 mg, I guess I want to slow my taper rate down. He gave me a rate of 5% every 14 days, which is what I asked or. What is your opinion? Remember, I will not have my kpin to back me up. Seems everybody here is cutting much slower than I planned to do, and I want to err on the side of caution. And of course, you know, I won't be able to figure out the math on each progressive drop unless there is a math equation that someone would be willing to give me. W/O that equation, I am SOL. Thank you,

 

Bets

 

 

Hey BG

 

IMO you probably shouldn't really be thinking in terms of a percentage taper if you are doing a daily liquid taper. Percentages are a good way to work out where to start, but you really need to be prepared to adjust that daily cut if it's not working for you.

 

I'm not sure what the specifics are of your liquid taper, but if you think what you are cutting is too much, it's really just a case of reducing how many mls you are reducing each day. I personally wouldn't bother about the %, because it's not really relevent with a daily taper. Possibly any easier method for you would be work out over how many days you want to reduce 1mg, and then work out how many mils you would need to reduce each day to achieve that amount.

 

If I can help you work it out let me know, but I'll need to know what kind of ratio you are using (ie 1:100 or 1:10).

 

Having said that, I'm not sure why you are using liquid to taper from 70mg. That seems like a high dose to start using liquid at, but everyone has to taper the best way they can, and there's certainly no rule that says you can't use liquid from any dose you want. Maybe you could start out making some dry cuts of even just 0.5mg at first and see how you go.

 

DP, thanks for stopping by. I just assumed (incorrectly?) that if you use liquid from the very beginning, it would be the same as using liquid and pills. My ratio of the liquid is 5 ml/5mg. I have always been afraid to use liquid to dissolve tablets. It seems so confusing to me. I guess I would  like to cut and hold for a long while. .5 mg every 7 days seems good to me, at first. But then I would begin my progressive taper and I think the #s would be an odd cut. My pdoc is willing to give me 10 mg, 5 mg and 2 mg. Or anything that I ask. Is there any equation how to figure this out? And what if my next drop is something hypothetical like 4.6 mg? How do I cut the pills and get that accurate dose? I am currently using a gram scale off my K and dropping by .001 grams every day. This is easy because you just use a metal finger nail file and cut only a tiny amount for each day. Can the same apply for Valium? ((Thanks Moo for stepping in on my behalf!)

 

Thank you so much, DP......... :smitten:Bets

[[Di...]]

TBH Bets I wouldn't worry about percentages. They are always going to be odd amounts and, unless you are doing a liquid taper, will always be too hard to work out if you are doing a cut and hold taper. Percentages are okay to give you a rough guide as to what overall amount you should be cutting, but to stick rigidly to a percentage cut never really works out too well IMO.

 

For the time being I would suggest just sticking with the 0.5mg cut, hold it for a week, and then cut another 0.5mg, and so on. See how you go over the next month. If you're feeling pretty good maybe you could think about increasing the cut to 1mg, but try not to get too far ahead of yourself.

 

If those cuts aren't working too well, and you want to do the liquid taper, the details I gave in my previous post (Reply #15245) hopefully should help you. If not, just let me know.

 

If you wanted to continue with the gram scale, that would be fine too. It's a method you're used to, so maybe it would be better to stick to what you know. I've never used a scale to taper, but I guess the theory for valium would be the same as klonopin. The only hesitation I have with a scale is how well the benzo is distributed within the tablet, but if you've never had any problems, it should be fine. If that is an issue though I would think all you would have to do is crush the tablet, mix it well and then weigh.

[[be...]]

Hey DP. You are an for replying to me. But I trust you more than anybody else here. You make so much sense to me, when I read your posts. OK, since you are the resident expert, and since I am on a high dose of Valium, I'll cut by .5 mg each week for a month or so and then report back in on how I am feeling, and hopefully you will be around. But since valium has such a long half life, I might not notice how I feel for a while. Builder told me that using a scale for Valium does not work well. It's a royal pain in the arse anyway, micro cutting those pills. Thank you once again for being here for me. I wish I were you, and begone benzos.

Bets

[[cr...]]

Liberty, you have the question I would like an answer to.  Let's hope we get some answers.  Cross

 

A question about diazepam induced depression. (after a switch from a different benzo)

 

Does anyone here take an antidepressant for that kind of depression, or do you deal with this in a different way ?

[[or...]]

liberty and cross, this may or may not be helpful.

 

I crossed from 1.5 mgs of Ativan to 15 mgs of valium and while I certainly did feel sedated and dopey for about a week, that passed.

 

I never did feel any valium-induced depression. I think we hear from a lot of people who do/did feel it, but we don't her from the people who did not suffer from it. I can't be the only one.

 

Anyhow, just my two cent's worth.

 

Okatz

[[mr...]]

Liberty, you have the question I would like an answer to.  Let's hope we get some answers.  Cross

 

A question about diazepam induced depression. (after a switch from a different benzo)

 

Does anyone here take an antidepressant for that kind of depression, or do you deal with this in a different way ?

From looking at my mom's experience, she did not have benzo induced depression until switching to valium.

The depression would come in a few hour boughts, but not until she was below 3mg v.

It rarely appears and only for about an hour now.

[[Di...]]

Hey DP. You are an for replying to me. But I trust you more than anybody else here. You make so much sense to me, when I read your posts. OK, since you are the resident expert, and since I am on a high dose of Valium, I'll cut by .5 mg each week for a month or so and then report back in on how I am feeling, and hopefully you will be around. But since valium has such a long half life, I might not notice how I feel for a while. Builder told me that using a scale for Valium does not work well. It's a royal pain in the arse anyway, micro cutting those pills. Thank you once again for being here for me. I wish I were you, and begone benzos.

Bets

 

Aww, you flatter me too much Bets . I'm just one of many on here who helps out, and everyone does a great job. Maybe I just understand better what it's like for a mathematical dummy to try to taper, because I am one, and the only reason I understand it all now is because I had to live through it. ..lol...

 

Are your PMs working these days? I tried to PM you a few weeks ago and it bounced back. If they are, and you make a post here that I don't see, just send me a PM. Otherwise make a post on the liquid valium tapering thread, because I will always see the posts there as I have an alert on that one. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97511.msg1248599#msg1248599

[[be...]]

Hi, Diaz-Pam, I have been a member since June !, 2015. I kind just stayed on the Intro section for a long while, but I have been venturing out to different boards and decided that I needed to take a swing over here. after reading many posts about tapering i sometimes, wonder if i am doing this right, and i keep reading that the Ashton guide suggests you jump at 1mg, I am presently on 2mg, with very mild w/d's and they do not last long, have some brain fog, my first two tapers were a disaster, i went too fast and the second one i was off for 7 days and was close to death's door, I try to be positive as i can be, even when i was so sick, but I am a bit worried that i may not see Recovery. I do not ever want to reinstate again. If it is working fairly well for me should i just continue? I am not at the point of obsessing about this, but i guess i just need a another opinion. I must tell you since coming to BB, i have been busy on the boards and even set up some topics,and that helps me to take the focus off of what i am going through, right now busy busy, Thank you for starting this support group. 

[Guest [mo...]]

Hi, Diaz-Pam, I have been a member since June !, 2015. I kind just stayed on the Intro section for a long while, but I have been venturing out to different boards and decided that I needed to take a swing over here. after reading many posts about tapering i sometimes, wonder if i am doing this right, and i keep reading that the Ashton guide suggests you jump at 1mg, I am presently on 2mg, with very mild w/d's and they do not last long, have some brain fog, my first two tapers were a disaster, i went too fast and the second one i was off for 7 days and was close to death's door, I try to be positive as i can be, even when i was so sick, but I am a bit worried that i may not see Recovery. I do not ever want to reinstate again. If it is working fairly well for me should i just continue? I am not at the point of obsessing about this, but i guess i just need a another opinion. I must tell you since coming to BB, i have been busy on the boards and even set up some topics,and that helps me to take the focus off of what i am going through, right now busy busy, Thank you for starting this support group. 

 

begood, have you thought about doing liquid titration for the last 2 mg?

[[Di...]]

Hi, Diaz-Pam, I have been a member since June !, 2015. I kind just stayed on the Intro section for a long while, but I have been venturing out to different boards and decided that I needed to take a swing over here. after reading many posts about tapering i sometimes, wonder if i am doing this right, and i keep reading that the Ashton guide suggests you jump at 1mg, I am presently on 2mg, with very mild w/d's and they do not last long, have some brain fog, my first two tapers were a disaster, i went too fast and the second one i was off for 7 days and was close to death's door, I try to be positive as i can be, even when i was so sick, but I am a bit worried that i may not see Recovery. I do not ever want to reinstate again. If it is working fairly well for me should i just continue? I am not at the point of obsessing about this, but i guess i just need a another opinion. I must tell you since coming to BB, i have been busy on the boards and even set up some topics,and that helps me to take the focus off of what i am going through, right now busy busy, Thank you for starting this support group. 

 

Hi begood

 

I was just going to make the same suggestion as mountainyogi. The low doses of valium can be the toughest for some people. It certainly was for me.

 

You seem to be doing fine at 2mg, with minimal side effects, so I would hate to see you mess that up by jumping too quickly. TBH I don't know of too many people on valium who have been able to stick to the Ashton guidelines. Most seem to find it far too harsh. Maybe think about switching to a daily taper and slowly glide your way into being benzo free.

 

I have the method I used in the link in my signature below, but of course there are other ways to daily taper too. It's just a matter of finding a way that feels right for you. On a daily taper you can still go as fast or a slow as you like, so it doesn't necessarily have to take longer than a cut and hold taper. It just tends to be a bit more gentle.

 

If you've managed to get yourself down from 10mg, there is no reason in the world to think that you won't recover. It just takes a bit of time and patience.

[[xa...]]

Hello.

 

I come from quiet far, currently at 0,33 mg valium once every evening. The doctor believed I couldn't necessarily manage cutting from 0,66 to 0,33 mg and asked me to make a symptom based final taper, be wise and make daily microcuts if I would meet issues. I directly cut to 0,33mg (one drop) and even if my sleep and metabolism are not better they are not worse. Valium's half life can last up to 200 hours, therefore does it necesarrily mean that I have to hold around 50 additional days before jumping ? I'm on this dose for about 10 days. 2 more weeks holding can be enough before jumping ? In this last case it's only about 2 half lives which are spent.

[[be...]]

Thanks Diaz-Pam and mountainyogi, for your posts, I later intend to spend some time looking over the lig taper with vodka, to both of you, know that i am truly thankful for BB that reach out and help us when we have questions. right now it is a grain of sand in my mind about the liq taper, as i am doing well right now. I know that my first two tapers was done by cutting pill, and i did feel horrible at tiny cuts, but then i went too fast and for me it feels good to stabilize between doses. I am going to pull that elderly card out, after all i am 68yrs old, ha, but honestly, a young 68, but i do like the fact that you said i could stabilize between cuts. later i have a lot of reading and in the days to come. thanks again for your time and support.  from this benzo called valium, sorry refuse to give this pill a capital letter, does not deserve it''''''''' 

[[li...]]

Hi.

 

Perhaps this question has both been asked and answered before, but are there any people who succesfully crossed over (switched)  from klonopin to valium ? I know I posted, and tried diazepam a few months ago but my memory is a mess.

[[cr...]]

Liberty, I successfully crossed. Took last Klonopin Aug 22.  Now I am tapering the Valium.  I am extremely depressed but the Valium may be causing that.  Cross

[Guest [mo...]]

Thanks Diaz-Pam and mountainyogi, for your posts, I later intend to spend some time looking over the lig taper with vodka, to both of you, know that i am truly thankful for BB that reach out and help us when we have questions. right now it is a grain of sand in my mind about the liq taper, as i am doing well right now. I know that my first two tapers was done by cutting pill, and i did feel horrible at tiny cuts, but then i went too fast and for me it feels good to stabilize between doses. I am going to pull that elderly card out, after all i am 68yrs old, ha, but honestly, a young 68, but i do like the fact that you said i could stabilize between cuts. later i have a lot of reading and in the days to come. thanks again for your time and support.  from this benzo called valium, sorry refuse to give this pill a capital letter, does not deserve it''''''''' 

 

begood, If I did not have an excel spread sheet, thanks to accountant hubby, I could not have figured out how people come to these dilutions.  I could send you a copy of the worksheets he created for me to get the job done unless DPam already has that somewhere on the site. I have to tell you since I started the liquid titration, the jolt that usually occurs with dry cuts is minimized. I am dealing with opiate related PAWS as well so it took some time for me to get in my head that I need to slow down--but slow down I have done. Hang in there, you are in the home stretch

[[be...]]

Thanks, mountainyogi , I need to read the place Diaz-Pam highlighted and haven't got that far yet. but will keep in mind what you said. for the possible future of lig taper. you know we may not always feel well but the main thing is we are feeling and someday, we will be so so free of  benzo's. best day to you.

[[li...]]

Crosstheroad,

 

The depression doesn't surprise me.

 

Are there more people who have switched/'crossed' ? I'd like to get a picture.

[[Di...]]

Hello.

 

I come from quiet far, currently at 0,33 mg valium once every evening. The doctor believed I couldn't necessarily manage cutting from 0,66 to 0,33 mg and asked me to make a symptom based final taper, be wise and make daily microcuts if I would meet issues. I directly cut to 0,33mg (one drop) and even if my sleep and metabolism are not better they are not worse. Valium's half life can last up to 200 hours, therefore does it necesarrily mean that I have to hold around 50 additional days before jumping ? I'm on this dose for about 10 days. 2 more weeks holding can be enough before jumping ? In this last case it's only about 2 half lives which are spent.

 

A good indication of how you will feel after you jump is how you feel before the jump. If you think you feel well enough to jump in a couple of weeks there is no real reason to wait. Just keep in mind though that it may take some time for your body to fully heal after you have jumped, so you may feel some upswing in symptoms from time to time for a while, but the worst part of the taper will be over. Well done to you!!

[[xa...]]

Hello.

 

I come from quiet far, currently at 0,33 mg valium once every evening. The doctor believed I couldn't necessarily manage cutting from 0,66 to 0,33 mg and asked me to make a symptom based final taper, be wise and make daily microcuts if I would meet issues. I directly cut to 0,33mg (one drop) and even if my sleep and metabolism are not better they are not worse. Valium's half life can last up to 200 hours, therefore does it necesarrily mean that I have to hold around 50 additional days before jumping ? I'm on this dose for about 10 days. 2 more weeks holding can be enough before jumping ? In this last case it's only about 2 half lives which are spent.

 

A good indication of how you will feel after you jump is how you feel before the jump. If you think you feel well enough to jump in a couple of weeks there is no real reason to wait. Just keep in mind though that it may take some time for your body to fully heal after you have jumped, so you may feel some upswing in symptoms from time to time for a while, but the worst part of the taper will be over. Well done to you!!

 

Thank you. Then, I will jump when I'll be able to manage better my sleep pattern.

[[li...]]

That is surprising.

 

Is everybody suddenly jumping from one diazepam support group to another ?

Last post, two days ago.

[[et...]]

That is surprising.

 

Is everybody suddenly jumping from one diazepam support group to another ?

Last post, two days ago.

 

How's your taper going Liberty?

etown

[[li...]]

I'm between tapers ...

 

I tried lorazepam for one day, then went back to clonazepam. I could 'feel' the effects from the lorazepam for several days.

 

Maybe I'll have to try diazepam again, but I just hate the drug. Depressing, shorter acting, it accumulates in the body way too much. A very different drug.

Also, I have no framework for a taper. Ashton ? I take one dose a day so from that perspective I can't follow her schedules. And combining diazepam and clonazepam gets very messy.

Also, she didn't taper anyone off clonazepam with diazepam, and the 'manual' contains some half-truths and omissions.

 

I'm worried ... There appear to be few options. Maybe I'll try diazepam again.

The downside is the slow elimination if it doesn't work.

 

Last time I tried diazepam I fell asleep in the late afternoon (tired/low energy), woke up disoriented and somewhat confused. Followed by some fear ... It didn't last that long, but it was very unpleasant. Probably no cure for that ?

[[Ju...]]

liberty I crossed from K to V and did fine, only ever dosed once a day. I followed a slower version of the ashton taper (see my sig). The extra tiredness only lasts a couple of weeks after the cross. Enjoy it in preparation for any sleep shortages that may come!

[[et...]]

liberty I crossed from K to V and did fine, only ever dosed once a day. I followed a slower version of the ashton taper (see my sig). The extra tiredness only lasts a couple of weeks after the cross. Enjoy it in preparation for any sleep shortages that may come!

 

Liberty I did the same as JKS and I'm off. The key is to not over think it, accept that there is no symptom free taper and do it. The time we spend thinking about tapering is wasted tapering time.

etown