Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Mo...]]

Hello Valium group,

I have a question about Valium.

I had to go back on Klonopin because I couldnt tolerate Valium

How long does it take for Valium to leave my body?

Thanks

 

 

 

 

This was originally posted as a reply to this thread: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=5660.0

 

Strictly, it will not be earlier doses that are processed, but just a proportion of the amount of drug you have in your system. It just depends on the particular molecule coming into contact with your metabolic processes. So, it is all chance, and probability. But since there are huge numbers of these drug molecules floating around our system, we can predict how much (a proportion) of the drug is metabolised over a period of time. The only problem is that it varies from person-to-person. The usual way to describe this is how long it takes for half of the drug to be metabolised (assuming that you have stopped taking additional doses), we can work out the amount fairly simply. This will be expressed as a range because of our individual differences. So, Valium will take between 36-200 hours for half of it to be metabolised. Of what's remaining, half of that will be metabolised after a further 36-200 hours. So, you will have a quarter left in your system after 72-400 hours. The maths is as follows:

 

Since we cannot know our individual rates of metabolisation, we will have to instead calculate a range of possibilities. In the case of Valium, that's 36-200 hours. To calculate how much is left in our system, say, after 6 days:

 

144 hours in 6 days, divide by 36 hours, equals 4. (144/36=4). - This is our power.

 

Half-life (0.5) to the power of 4, equals 0.0625 (as a decimal). Multiply this by 100 to express it as a percentage, equals 6.25%. This is how much is left in our bodies after six days, assuming that we metabolise Valium at a half-life rate of 36 hours.

 

Now, if we instead assume that we metabolise Valium at half-life rate of 200 hours, then: 144 hours in six days, divide by 200 hours (144/200=0.72). This is our power!

 

Half-life (0.5) to the power of 0.72, equals 0.607 (as a decimal) Again, we multiply by 100 to gain a percentage figure, equals 60.7%.

 

So, you see, even after just six days, the range of possible blood levels is very large, and the gap grows even larger with more time.

 

Again (more succinctly):

 

6 days; half-life 36-200 hours

 

6x24=144 hours

 

144/36=4 (for a half-life of 36 hours)

 

0.54=0.0625

 

= 6.25%

 

144/200=0.72 (for a half-life of 200 hours)

 

0.50.72=0.607

 

= 60.7%

 

Range = 6.25 to 60.7%.

 

 

So, we can calculate possible ranges, but I don't think it really tells us anything, apart from our individual metabolic rates has huge effects upon our meds. Because of this variability, two people on the same benzo, at the same dose, can expect to have very different blood levels, even when not withdrawing!

 

As a matter of interest, the possible range for Valium left in our system after 30 days is: 0.000095% (that must be undetectable) to 8.25% (that must be easily detectable). This difference is enormous. Knowing this probably doesn't help any of us though.

[[Ki...]]

Moodle,

Wow thanks.

Sounds complicated

I am trying to figure out if I am too drugged now or in withdrawal because I have only one symptom-

Emotional blunting,nothing else. In past I would have like almost all withdrawal symptoms even after cutting small dose. So what is going on? No emotions? Thats difficult

[[Mo...]]

Moodle,

Wow thanks.

Sounds complicated

I am trying to figure out if I am too drugged now or in withdrawal because I have only one symptom-

Emotional blunting,nothing else. In past I would have like almost all withdrawal symptoms even after cutting small dose. So what is going on? No emotions? Thats difficult

 

Yes, you, me and thousands of others...

 

That is one of the most common symptoms . It's designed to do exactly that : make you not feel for whatever it is that you were given this junk.

 

Rest assured : that's temporary. Your emotions will come back.

If this is your only xs right now, as awful as it is, it's really going ok.

It will go away with time. I know it's tough... But you'll get there

[[Ki...]]

Yeah I know but this time its horrible.

I talked to a friend and he thought I should increase my dose for tonight to get good sleep.

I took 3mg omg :'( I never took that much in past and guess what I cannot sleep. It has opposite effect on me I slept yesterday on 0.5mg

[[Mo...]]

Yeah I know but this time its horrible.

I talked to a friend and he thought I should increase my dose for tonight to get good sleep.

I took 3mg omg :'( I never took that much in past and guess what I cannot sleep. It has opposite effect on me I slept yesterday on 0.5mg

 

Look, this isn't good.

Taking benzo's for sleep... Extra.. While you're trying to get stable and start a taper.

Asking more doesn't even guarantee any sleep and you're confusing your body even more with not staying on a regular dosage.

 

I don't get that. I just don't.

 

It's IS horrible. But you're not doing yourself any favors or making it less horrible by numbing yourself out even. Ore and having to endure THAT shock to the system now.

 

I don't know how much 3 or 0.5 Valium is. You should post that on the Klonopin thread, I guess if you want to know.

 

Well, I'd say the best thing to do now is probably a hold for a few days an then ....taper OFF.

[[4G...]]

Moo, if I went by your method and was now taking out 21ml of the mixture then what would I be at? Something like 10.75? I am doing that but have had to stick for now because I feel horrendous. Have told Katz I am sticking till the end of the month. But I am interested what level I'm at. Thanks. Gilly xxx

[[Mo...]]

Moo, if I went by your method and was now taking out 21ml of the mixture then what would I be at? Something like 10.75? I am doing that but have had to stick for now because I feel horrendous. Have told Katz I am sticking till the end of the month. But I am interested what level I'm at. Thanks. Gilly xxx

 

If you started at 11 mgr and took out 21 ml...

21 ml is 0.21 mgr.

( you have a 1:100 ratio , so you move the decimals by two)

 

 

11 minus 0.21 = 10.79

So that's where you're at..

 

Sorry you feel so crap. If you feel,you need to hold,it's what you gotta do.

[[li...]]

Not to argue about the numbers, but according to Reg Peart it can take two months for diazepam and its metabolites to clear the body after 'long term' use.

 

I think I've seen a thee months number, but I'm not sure.

 

Somehow, cumulative doses of diazepam would take a lot longer to clear than a single dose. Don't ask me about the numbers, no clue.

[[li...]]

Hiphop, diazepam and Ativan bind to the same subunits of the GABAA receptor ('benzodiazepine site') but with different affinity for subunits 1-5.

 

From what I've read, at 'equivalent' doses diazepam is more sedating and hypnotic than lorazepam.

Which, in a way may be good for sleep but it may not be enough to suppress anxiety. Until the diazepam has built up sufficiently, which will take time and of course there is no guarantee it will work.

I'm just saying that last part to be honest.

 

(there are also other possible explanations but I'm trying to keep it simple)

 

Try to work with the doc.

[[et...]]

Hiphop, diazepam and Ativan bind to the same subunits of the GABAA receptor ('benzodiazepine site') but with different affinity for subunits 1-5.

 

From what I've read, at 'equivalent' doses diazepam is more sedating and hypnotic than lorazepam.

Which, in a way may be good for sleep but it may not be enough to suppress anxiety. Until the diazepam has built up sufficiently, which will take time and of course there is no guarantee it will work.

I'm just saying that last part to be honest.

 

(there are also other possible explanations but I'm trying to keep it simple)

 

Try to work with the doc.

 

Hey Liberty how is your taper going. It is hard to tell from your sig.

etown

[[ri...]]

Hiphop,

Have you been medically checked for fatty liver or sepsis?

 

 

Mrtmeo, this is the second time I have heard you mention something about the fatty liver.  I have one and am having a hell of a time with this taper.  I can't get passed 14 mgs without going into acute withdrawal.  But I do have another disease on board that I am going to the Mayo for in Oct.  Can you explain to me  how a fatty liver can interfere with the metabolism of valium.  I am typically a fast metabolizer, I have to dose 4 times a day.

 

I asked this question on page 1505 perhaps you missed it, could you answer this question for me

 

Thanks so much, River

 

[[mr...]]

Hiphop,

Have you been medically checked for fatty liver or sepsis?

 

 

Mrtmeo, this is the second time I have heard you mention something about the fatty liver.  I have one and am having a hell of a time with this taper.  I can't get passed 14 mgs without going into acute withdrawal.  But I do have another disease on board that I am going to the Mayo for in Oct.  Can you explain to me  how a fatty liver can interfere with the metabolism of valium.  I am typically a fast metabolizer, I have to dose 4 times a day.

 

I asked this question on page 1505 perhaps you missed it, could you answer this question for me

 

Thanks so much, River

 

Hi River,

I am sorry, I missed your post.

I have a friend that took .5mg klonopin for 3 weeks and cold turkey'd.

He had severe symptoms for 18 months and found out he had fatty liver via an ultrasound.

He did 4 liver flushes and his cholesterol and triglycerides came down and his symptoms got worse for a couple months and are now almost gone.

If the liver is clogged, the klonopin can't metabolize properly and floats around the blood stream hitting receptors over and over again.

This explains why he would get a new symptom every 1.5 months.

These sx's would start out severe and gradually get better, but then, a new symptom would replace it.

Having fatty liver might explain some of the very long recoveries out there, but I would not recommend anyone do liver flushing if they are tapering.

Liver flushing will release alot of toxins and periodic kidney cleanses need to be done to flush out the extra toxin load.

 

Getting past 14mgs is just a mental block.

Cutting is the necessary part of getting off the drug and things will get better.

I hope this answers your questions

[[ri...]]

Hi mrtmeo,

 

Thank you for the response.  I am going to the Mayo Clinic and will be doing a ct so I will see of I still have a fatty liver.  I have lost a lot of weight during this taper.  This is my second taper (long story) but my first one went fairly smooth, took 20 months with a very slow microtaper and was healed in 4 months after taper.  I had a fatty liver then. Everyone is so different. I could be having problems with this taper because it is my 2nd one or perhaps this autoimmune disease is part of the problem, though my doctor doesn't think so.  I think you are right about the mental block once you have gone through one taper the memory is still pretty vivid in your mind. Probably some PTSD going on.  Thank you for reminding me of that.

 

River

 

 

[[Ki...]]

Moodle,

for couple days? I thought like couple weeks.

Well the reason why I took extra just one time is to figure out what is going on.

And The extra didn't help me sleep better or feel more relaxed and I woke up in pain

so I would guess I have withdrawal symptoms from Valium. I just stopped couple days ago

So Klonopin probably doesn't cover Valium withdrawal?

[[Mo...]]

Moodle,

for couple days? I thought like couple weeks.

Well the reason why I took extra just one time is to figure out what is going on.

And The extra didn't help me sleep better or feel more relaxed and I woke up in pain

so I would guess I have withdrawal symptoms from Valium. I just stopped couple days ago

So Klonopin probably doesn't cover Valium withdrawal?

 

Well, I don't know...

I only know that I'm pretty sure nobody is relaxed during a taper.

The only way is through.

And through won't happen when we take more , even to see what's going on.

 

I know different benzo have different ways or working and acting and what not.

It's withdrawal. Either he from Valium or K . I think it doesn't matter which or what is doing which right now.  they all suck. What matters is that you stick with one and stick with a dose. Hold if you feel you need to, to get out of the woods.

But from what you told me, emotional blunting is your only symptoms right now. So I'm not sure which withdrawal symptoms you're talking about?

You didn't mention the pain.

 

That is all why you don't want to take more or keep switching or upodse or cut too much. But stay on a steady dose so you can taper.

 

I've never been on K. So I don't know about how that would feel.

 

I hope it feels better soon....

 

 

[[Ki...]]

Mrtmeo,

I did liver flushes and colon cleanses on Klonopin but before tapering when kind of stable and it was just horrible-The stuff that came out of me was just hard to believe I just did it to get ready for tapering.

But the problem was that after doing that the pills started to make me crazy groggy and I started to sleep too much so I had to taper my Seroquel from 200mg to 75mg. No withdrawal symptoms.

But not sure if it gives me some benefits now. Probably not.

[[pa...]]

Hi Acrade79,

 

I think I should!!! In that case there's no way of repeating the history again!!!

 

Thanks for the brilliant reply!

 

 

HI Diaz-Pam,

 

Thanks for your quick reply! I desperately need it and even though I guess its withdrawal, I need somebody to reassure me.

 

I have so much regrets taking valium last night. Now i can only hope i have manageable symptoms for the days to come. 

 

Thanks for your advise!! sooo appreciated. 

 

Is getting rid of the Valium an option?

[[Ki...]]

Moodle,

yeah emotional blunting but very deep so deep that I dont even know what is that.

Its not I dont feel relaxed. I just dont feel anything. Sometimes little anxiety but it's mild but I guess

I would rather feel anxiety than feeling nothing

Yes I had little muscle pain in morning but then it went away after I took the pill

Yeah I guess I will stick to 1.5mg. I dont feel anxious I guess that means I dont go through withdrawal

[[mr...]]

Hi mrtmeo,

 

Thank you for the response.  I am going to the Mayo Clinic and will be doing a ct so I will see of I still have a fatty liver.  I have lost a lot of weight during this taper.  This is my second taper (long story) but my first one went fairly smooth, took 20 months with a very slow microtaper and was healed in 4 months after taper.  I had a fatty liver then. Everyone is so different. I could be having problems with this taper because it is my 2nd one or perhaps this autoimmune disease is part of the problem, though my doctor doesn't think so.  I think you are right about the mental block once you have gone through one taper the memory is still pretty vivid in your mind. Probably some PTSD going on.  Thank you for reminding me of that.

 

River

Hi River,

I didn't know that you had an AI disease or that this was your second time tapering.

You are kindled and so is my mom and she has an AI disease, Microscopic Polyangiitis.

When kindled, it will take even longer to taper off.

This is my mom's 2nd taper too and this time it is taking much longer for her to recover.

I know that the benzo triggered her AI disease and she is almost in remission because she is almost off the valium.

Tapering slowly is the only way to get out of this without severe protracted withdrawal and the longer one has been on benzo's the longer the taper.

[[ri...]]

Mrtmeo,

 

Can you explain "kindled" to me.  This must be why I a having such a problem.  I knew something was very wrong this time around.

[[mr...]]

Mrtmeo,

 

Can you explain "kindled" to me.  This must be why I a having such a problem.  I knew something was very wrong this time around.

Kindled is when your benzo receptors are so hypersensitized from a prior use and/or taper off of benzo's that anything that effects those receptors will cause dysfunction.

This is why it always takes much longer to heal the 2nd time around.

My mom's first taper only took less than 2 years.

This time it will take 3 years.

I think it can take 5 years for the receptors to heal completely because it takes 5 years for us to create an entirely new body.

Benzo's damage our receptors and it takes a long time for the repair and replacement and upregulation of gaba.

 

My mom's oxygen began to desaturate when she ct'd off of a random dosing of ativan, 45 pills in 10 months.

One pill was all it took to bring her oxygen to normal, but it only lasted for 2 hours, so she switched to valium and she was stable on 2 LPM of oxygen.

Dr Ashton said that drs don't realize how strong ativan is because it is actually stronger than valium in that it goes directly to the base of the brain, the respiratory center.

These drugs are very dangerous and need careful tapering to get off.

[[Ki...]]

Mrtmeo,

Thanks for explanation. I finally figured out what kindling means. That means I will be tapering

Like 20 years because doctors did CT soo many times  :'(

[[mr...]]

Mrtmeo,

Thanks for explanation. I finally figured out what kindling means. That means I will be tapering

Like 20 years because doctors did CT soo many times  :'(

kitten,

I don't think that just because one had hypersensitized their receptors many times means it will take even longer, because those receptors were already damaged.

I think drug amounts and how many years on the drugs plays more of a role on how long it takes to heal.

However, there are always those that heal faster than others and underlying disease plays a role.

Many will blame benzo's on symptoms that are due to a disease process.

[[ri...]]

Mrtmeo,

 

Can you explain "kindled" to me.  This must be why I a having such a problem.  I knew something was very wrong this time around.

Kindled is when your benzo receptors are so hypersensitized from a prior use and/or taper off of benzo's that anything that effects those receptors will cause dysfunction.

This is why it always takes much longer to heal the 2nd time around.

My mom's first taper only took less than 2 years.

This time it will take 3 years.

I think it can take 5 years for the receptors to heal completely because it takes 5 years for us to create an entirely new body.

Benzo's damage our receptors and it takes a long time for the repair and replacement and upregulation of gaba.

 

My mom's oxygen began to desaturate when she ct'd off of a random dosing of ativan, 45 pills in 10 months.

One pill was all it took to bring her oxygen to normal, but it only lasted for 2 hours, so she switched to valium and she was stable on 2 LPM of oxygen.

Dr Ashton said that drs don't realize how strong ativan is because it is actually stronger than valium in that it goes directly to the base of the brain, the respiratory center.

These drugs are very dangerous and need careful tapering to get off.

 

Thank you again Mrtmeo

 

So it looks like you really have one chance at this guys.  So whoever is reading this and is finishing their 1st taper, please throw away those benzos once off and never look back.  I did cause of a fear of cancer, just had a very weak moment and got hooked very quickly once again.  I read of people telling me to throw out any leftover benzos but I didn't and now I am kindled and have to start over with it being even more painful and longer.  Please don't do what I did and throw them out, don't think you can keep some around just in case you need one here or there.  Not worth it.  Benzos are sneaky they have a mind of their own.

[[mr...]]

Mrtmeo,

 

Can you explain "kindled" to me.  This must be why I a having such a problem.  I knew something was very wrong this time around.

Kindled is when your benzo receptors are so hypersensitized from a prior use and/or taper off of benzo's that anything that effects those receptors will cause dysfunction.

This is why it always takes much longer to heal the 2nd time around.

My mom's first taper only took less than 2 years.

This time it will take 3 years.

I think it can take 5 years for the receptors to heal completely because it takes 5 years for us to create an entirely new body.

Benzo's damage our receptors and it takes a long time for the repair and replacement and upregulation of gaba.

 

My mom's oxygen began to desaturate when she ct'd off of a random dosing of ativan, 45 pills in 10 months.

One pill was all it took to bring her oxygen to normal, but it only lasted for 2 hours, so she switched to valium and she was stable on 2 LPM of oxygen.

Dr Ashton said that drs don't realize how strong ativan is because it is actually stronger than valium in that it goes directly to the base of the brain, the respiratory center.

These drugs are very dangerous and need careful tapering to get off.

 

Thank you again Mrtmeo

 

So it looks like you really have one chance at this guys.  So whoever is reading this and is finishing their 1st taper, please throw away those benzos once off and never look back.  I did cause of a fear of cancer, just had a very weak moment and got hooked very quickly once again.  I read of people telling me to throw out any leftover benzos but I didn't and now I am kindled and have to start over with it being even more painful and longer.  Please don't do what I did and throw them out, don't think you can keep some around just in case you need one here or there.  Not worth it.  Benzos are sneaky they have a mind of their own.

Yes, River is absolutely right!

Throw them away because they will destroy yous life if you go back.

My mom hid an old expired bottle of ativan and thought it would be okay to just take if she went to the dentist, had an MRI or drive.

She ended up with respiratory failure, not worth it!