Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Di...]]

That's interesting arcade. It does seem harsh to be cutting every single day. How long did you hold? Or did it depend on how you felt? Thanks for your help.

 

Hi Gilly

 

I agree with what everyone else has said.

 

It's not so much that cutting every day is harsh. It's more about finding the "right" amount to cut every day. It would appear the amount you are cutting is too much for you, so you really should think about reducing how much you are cutting. I know it's frustrating to feel like you'll be going even slower, but in the long run it might make your taper faster, because you may not have to do those extended holds that we all seem to end up doing at some point. Impatience is your worst enemy when tapering, and I speak from a LOT of experience on that one..lol..  "The hurrier I go the behinder I get".

[[Di...]]

Hi All,

 

I have been so busy with work and ill parents, I haven't been around for awhile, but I'm back and just looking for a little advice or ideas here in case anyone wants to share...

 

To recap, I went from the Ashton XO (from A to V) taper starting at the equivalent of about 25-30 mg of V in November of 2014 (after more than 40 years off and on Benzos for Migralepsy), but began having seizure migraines (and other unpleasant symptoms) so I changed to the Vodka titration method at about 9 mg V in May of 2015 and had pretty smooth sailing down to 6mg, which I reached in July 2014. At that point I started having seizure migraines again, so held for a month. And felt great! Then in August I started tapering again at between 3-5 mls per day and it's been a nightmare. I am now still at 5.20mg per day, 5 mgs as tablet and .20 mgs as titrated liquid. I am having crazy vertigo, depersonalization, ringing in my ears, headaches, problems with eyesight and things being too bright, head pressure, perception problems, crazy nightmares, feeling unreal and suddenly a lot more seizure migraines again -- about 2-3 per week, which is making my neurologists very uneasy, and it's not much fun for me.

 

I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong...no changes in ANYTHING that I am aware of. Same brand of V, same titration method, same meditation daily, same diet and exercise routine, not any more stressed out than usual, just can't seem to get over this. I was only cutting a little bit and now I have been holding for 7 days and the sxs seem almost as bad as when I was cutting big time with Ashton. I'm so frustrated to be held up for 3 months on cutting by only 2mgs and having such extreme sxs. Since the titration was going so smoothly I didn't expect to have such severe sxs at this point!

 

Anyone else experience this on a titration -- especially at this low a dose?

 

Thanks so much for any feedback!

 

Mo

 

Hi Mosart,

 

I have seen quite a few members hit a wall between 5mg and 3mg.  Everything was going smoothly until I hit 4mg.  I held there for a VERY long time until stable.  Some members have a harder time in the !lower dosages.  My opinion is to hold until your body catches up.  It might be a long hold but you'll stabilize eventually. 

 

I know some others will chime in here about their wall around this dosage.

 

My wall was at 1mg, and it sucked big time. The only cure is an extended hold. Mine was 2 months.

[[Mo...]]

My wall was at 3.75 Mosart and just now I got hit with a nasty one again, too.

Sometimes it's not what we are doing, we aren't realy changing anything and it still happens. Sometimes it's just the icky withdrawal and your cuts might have added up to thr point where now you've just reached a pint to hold a bit.

 

I agree with Katz. You'll get back to Baseline again.

 

You're saying " I didn't expect this on this low a dose " but I think exactly because of the low dose is why it may be happening. Your Steady cuts also get bigger , percentage wise, when you get lower.

Cutting 0.50 off a 10 mgr dose isn't the same as cutting it from 4 mgr.

 

I'm hoping you'll get relief soon... It sure sucks. But I'm pretty sure you'll pull out of this soon again when you do a bit of a hold and then see what happens over the weeks on your regular cuts again. Of it doesn't let up, it may be time to make your daily cuts a little smaller.

 

My two cents...

 

 

[[Di...]]

 

When you are micro tapering , when do you start to feel the effects of the cuts?  I do not want to crash again- I'm still suffering from some mistakes I've made at the beginning of this journey some months ago ( kindling?).  Do you " hold" anywhere along the way or just keep pulling?

 

If you feel relatively okay when you start, you may not feel anything much because you are going to be reducing quite slowly (roughly 3% a month). I would suggest that when you start using the liquid don’t start reducing straight away. Just keep taking the same dose every day for maybe a week. Some people find they can feel a temporary effect of going to the liquid.

 

I am using 10 mg pills and 2 mg pills at night, and that is the dose I am starting to reduce first.If I cut the 2 mg pill in half its not exactly in half - I'm wondering if I'm better off using 200 mls of solution and pulling from that instead of using 2 mg pills  broken in half unevenly so I get a more exact measurement ?

 

If you feel more comfortable not cutting your tablet it is perfectly fine to use 2ml of liquid with 198ml of water to make a 200ml solution. I always cut my tablets in half and never had any issues with it, because I used the other half within a couple of days anyway, but you have to do what makes you feel comfortable.

 

Is it a good idea to switch to tapering from a different dosage ( morning or afternoon ) the next month or does one just keep micro tapering the entire night dose to get rid of it? Afternoons are my most difficult times - I'm just so wiped out and nauseous that I am reluctant to reduce that afternoon dose, and in fact am wondering if I should add the two mg that I normally take at night along with the 10 mg and add it on to my afternoon dose and deduct it from my nightly dose because I feel so " withdrawly" in the afternoon.

 

It’s all trial and error really. Some people reduce one dose at a time and others reduce each dose evenly. Along the way people will also change around their doses to take different amounts at different times. If afternoons are your worst time, maybe you could either add a bit to that dose and just reduce from one or both other doses first, or maybe just leave the afternoon dose alone and reduce from the other/s.

 

This is a weird process.  I feel like the mad scientist.  Not quite comfortable with the whole thing but I guess I will get used to it - maybe making in larger doses is a better idea ( 495 ml water to 5 mg LD) but  We have well water , not city water - so no chlorine - should I refrigerate my solution?

 

If anyone can give me their ideas on these things , I'd appreciate it. 

Thanks to all of you-

 

 

No need for refrigeration. Just keep everything in a cool dark cupboard. You will get used to the process very quickly. Once you’ve done it a few times you’ll wonder why you were so confused.

 

Yes it is a very weird process, and something I wish I’d never had to learn how to do. I think we all deserve an honorary “Dr” in front of our names…lol…

 

[[Mo...]]

 

I think we all deserve an honorary “Dr” in front of our names…lol…

 

I think so too!!

 

Geez...

 

Djd, you'll get used to it very quickly, indeed.

Just a matter of doing it w few times and you're on your way.

 

[[Di...]]

Hi All,

 

I have been so busy with work and ill parents, I haven't been around for awhile, but I'm back and just looking for a little advice or ideas here in case anyone wants to share...

 

To recap, I went from the Ashton XO (from A to V) taper starting at the equivalent of about 25-30 mg of V in November of 2014 (after more than 40 years off and on Benzos for Migralepsy), but began having seizure migraines (and other unpleasant symptoms) so I changed to the Vodka titration method at about 9 mg V in May of 2015 and had pretty smooth sailing down to 6mg, which I reached in July 2014. At that point I started having seizure migraines again, so held for a month. And felt great! Then in August I started tapering again at between 3-5 mls per day and it's been a nightmare. I am now still at 5.20mg per day, 5 mgs as tablet and .20 mgs as titrated liquid. I am having crazy vertigo, depersonalization, ringing in my ears, headaches, problems with eyesight and things being too bright, head pressure, perception problems, crazy nightmares, feeling unreal and suddenly a lot more seizure migraines again -- about 2-3 per week, which is making my neurologists very uneasy, and it's not much fun for me.

 

I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong...no changes in ANYTHING that I am aware of. Same brand of V, same titration method, same meditation daily, same diet and exercise routine, not any more stressed out than usual, just can't seem to get over this. I was only cutting a little bit and now I have been holding for 7 days and the sxs seem almost as bad as when I was cutting big time with Ashton. I'm so frustrated to be held up for 3 months on cutting by only 2mgs and having such extreme sxs. Since the titration was going so smoothly I didn't expect to have such severe sxs at this point!

 

Anyone else experience this on a titration -- especially at this low a dose?

 

Thanks so much for any feedback!

 

Mo

 

 

 

I know your dose now is a lot lower than where you started (and well done for that!!), but 5.2mg isn't really that low a dose when it comes to benzos. The side effects can all be the same no matter when dose you are on.

 

I started at 5mg and the side effects from tapering that could be just as bad as those of someone on a higher dose. The hardest part of my taper was under 1mg. It took me as long to taper from 1mg down to zero, as it took me to taper from 5mg down to 1mg.

 

Sometimes there just aren't any explanations for why things go wrong with tapering. It just does, even if you haven't done anything different. When things go wrong all you can do is stop cutting immediately and hold, and if that means an extended hold then so be it. Benzos are very illogical, which I always had the hardest time coming to grips with because I am a very logical person and I need to find explanations for things, but I never could with benzos.

 

It's important to make sure you aren't cutting too much each day. As your dose gets lower you need to regularly reassess how much you are cutting. If you are around 5mg, I don't think you should still be cutting between 3-5ml (if that's what you were recently cutting). When I started at 5mg I started out cutting 2.5ml per day and quickly changed to 2ml per day (of a 100ml mixture).

[[Hi...]]

Guys I need help understand what's going on I am switch over to v and I have been having cold turkey waves of symptoms even before starting the crossover not cutting just holding so I don't understand what you guys mean by symptom bases taper and baseline because I am so extreme right now I'm going through a phase here I am so tired I cannot wake up but I'm still having akathisia and terror and obsessed thoughts I cannot take it. I'm on methadone too but only 40mg and most people are on like 70 to 100. I'm on 5mg ativan and 10mg valium I feel like the fatigue and lethargy and depression and unable to stay awake is scaring me. Yesterday I was kicking and screaming and trying to burst out of my skin and drowning feeling. I feel like the meds are just building up in my body cuz my foul liver but I'm scared why am I so freaking tired.

 

I am not going to be able to do a symptom bases taper because I have never been stable my waves are so extreme. You guys say hold but before trying to crossover I was holding on ativan for months and months trying to get stable and It just got worse and worse the longer I held. I have some days that are ok and this seems to be because of the methadone I feel my good days are solely from feeling good from methadone but 2mg which is nothing in the methadone world breaks me down. What is this lethargy will it pass it's scary I'm falling asleep right now but wake up with nightmares and depression and terror

 

My liver is not breaking this stuff down properly ok I know it but there's no way to tell I still have to crossover to 50 more 6mg of valium next m

 

My cold turkey detox experiences just ruined me there's no rem_education My hands and AT&T falling asleep I can't function

 

I'm going to die inmn&& &city can't see I'm so_r4 is this vnorka.

[[mr...]]

Hiphop,

Have you been medically checked for fatty liver or sepsis?

 

 

[[ar...]]

Hip-hop

 

Valium will make you sleepy in the beginning while it's building up.  It should go away maybe in a week or two.  Give the Valium a few weeks.  Hopefully it will resolve your severe waves.

[[Mo...]]

I agree with Arcade , Hiphop.

Valium can be super sedating. I felt like a zombie for a week or two. Strangely enough it didn't make me sleep better. If at all.

I think what you're feeling I quite common during cross over. I've seen it numerous times on here: being sedated and or sleepy and at the same time feeling you could crawl out of your skin with anxiety,

They seem opposite to each other,

BUT...it's not too weird, if you consider that you're cutting a benzo , from which you could feel withdrawal ( the anxiety and restless inside feeling ) and then adding one that will eventually cover those feelings from Ativan and make you sleepy.

 

It will not even out for a little while longer but you should feel relief once the Valium has gotten some more time to build up in your system. As you cut your Ativan and add in more Valium, it should cover you more and more.

 

Hang in there for now .

[[Hi...]]

Yes Man I been checked for everything. It's obviously the medication. I have hepatitis c and high liver enzymes that weren't high before I started the meds again. I do not understand a single person that does a symptom bases taper because my waves are too unpredictable and severe the last two days I have not been able to open my eyes I am so fatigued and tired. I think it's all the meds I'm on but I'm in tolerance withdrawal or anyways having protracted symptoms from my detox a year ago that didn't go away after reinstatement it's still that bad. But since I made the first switch to valium only10 mg I felt better for a few days and now I'm kicking and screaming but I can't stay awake it's hard to believe that 2 mg of methadone would cause that so it has to be my liver or the meds building up in my system because my liver. But my doctors don't know and they don't try to figure it out they say that does not happen with meds but on the bottle it says with elderly and people with lover problems valium can build up. Ativan downtown do that but I can't taper ativan.

 

Idk what to do

[[ar...]]

Yes Man I been checked for everything. It's obviously the medication. I have hepatitis c and high liver enzymes that weren't high before I started the meds again. I do not understand a single person that does a symptom bases taper because my waves are too unpredictable and severe the last two days I have not been able to open my eyes I am so fatigued and tired. I think it's all the meds I'm on but I'm in tolerance withdrawal or anyways having protracted symptoms from my detox a year ago that didn't go away after reinstatement it's still that bad. But since I made the first switch to valium only10 mg I felt better for a few days and now I'm kicking and screaming but I can't stay awake it's hard to believe that 2 mg of methadone would cause that so it has to be my liver or the meds building up in my system because my liver. But my doctors don't know and they don't try to figure it out they say that does not happen with meds but on the bottle it says with elderly and people with lover problems valium can build up. Ativan downtown do that but I can't taper ativan.

 

Idk what to do

 

Give the Valium a few weeks to build up.  You'll be sleepy for awhile. Read what noodle said.  Hang in there while it builds up.  Hoping for the best buddy.

[[Mo...]]

Yes Man I been checked for everything. It's obviously the medication. I have hepatitis c and high liver enzymes that weren't high before I started the meds again. I do not understand a single person that does a symptom bases taper because my waves are too unpredictable and severe the last two days I have not been able to open my eyes I am so fatigued and tired. I think it's all the meds I'm on but I'm in tolerance withdrawal or anyways having protracted symptoms from my detox a year ago that didn't go away after reinstatement it's still that bad. But since I made the first switch to valium only10 mg I felt better for a few days and now I'm kicking and screaming but I can't stay awake it's hard to believe that 2 mg of methadone would cause that so it has to be my liver or the meds building up in my system because my liver. But my doctors don't know and they don't try to figure it out they say that does not happen with meds but on the bottle it says with elderly and people with lover problems valium can build up. Ativan downtown do that but I can't taper ativan.

 

Idk what to do

 

Give the Valium a few weeks to build up.  You'll be sleepy for awhile. Read what noodle said.

 

For now, I don't think there is much you can DO. What there is to do right now is ride it out and let the Valium build up and try to hang in as hard as you can. Some days the only thing you need to do is get through it. Hour by hour sometimes. Your only job right now is to breathe.

And if you can sleep, all the better, every hour not enduring this is a win.

 

I'm sure your liver issues make it more complicated. But IMO what you're feeling right now is the Ativan reduction and not enough time yet for the Valium to accumulate in your system.

THAT, the Valium, is what's making your so tired.

I used to trip over my own feet when I just started cross over. Be assured that most have been thought that and that its " normal " for Valium to do that.

Try not being scared of it and be assured it's very very common and that it flips,out many people but it'll wear off in a while. A few weeks for most people.

 

You're not able to do a symptom based taper RIGHT NOW because you're not stable. So you don't know what that feels like.

It can all even out in a few weeks, Hiphop.

It's so hard to give it time when you feel this horrible. But please, hang in tight.

 

Depression and terror are horrific . I've been there too.

 

[[Hi...]]

I understand the sleepy part but it seems like more than that it feels like I'm dying every muscle is so fatigued I can't get up night sweats I feel extremely I'll

[[mr...]]

Yes Man I been checked for everything. It's obviously the medication. I have hepatitis c and high liver enzymes that weren't high before I started the meds again. I do not understand a single person that does a symptom bases taper because my waves are too unpredictable and severe the last two days I have not been able to open my eyes I am so fatigued and tired. I think it's all the meds I'm on but I'm in tolerance withdrawal or anyways having protracted symptoms from my detox a year ago that didn't go away after reinstatement it's still that bad. But since I made the first switch to valium only10 mg I felt better for a few days and now I'm kicking and screaming but I can't stay awake it's hard to believe that 2 mg of methadone would cause that so it has to be my liver or the meds building up in my system because my liver. But my doctors don't know and they don't try to figure it out they say that does not happen with meds but on the bottle it says with elderly and people with lover problems valium can build up. Ativan downtown do that but I can't taper ativan.

 

Idk what to do

Hiphop,

Hep C is nothing to ignore.

It maybe the disease flaring due to the benzos.

The only thing you can do is cross over, hold and take it from there.

There is no other option except reinstatement with no guaranty that it would help and it is not a long term solution as you know.

I don't know if a smooth cross over from ativan to valium would have helped my mom, but maybe it would have.

I just couldn't do it with her in the hospital.

The only thing you can do is stick to a plan until things stabilize and this can take a long time.

[[Te...]]

Hello  BB,

Hope all you are doing well, I want to stop by and say that I'm doing really good, Thanks to BB and Moodle and ATU and all of you. 

To the newbies keep listen to our masters and there is hope and wellness.

 

Tex

 

 

:smitten: :smitten:

 

Tex,

 

Great to see your post and really good to hear how well your doing. You are down to the lower numbers now so please go slow with as many holds as is needed. These lower numbers can be tricky.

 

Stay well my friend! 👍

 

ATU

 

 

ATU,

Nice to hear from you!!  thanks, I'm going slowly with Valium now I'm at 1.5 mg holding for few days.  feeling little or not sx.

I  started tapering Prozac I was in 20mg now in  19 mg, I'm doing very slow.

 

TEx

 

:smitten: 

 

[[Al...]]

Hello  BB,

Hope all you are doing well, I want to stop by and say that I'm doing really good, Thanks to BB and Moodle and ATU and all of you. 

To the newbies keep listen to our masters and there is hope and wellness.

 

Tex

 

 

:smitten: :smitten:

 

Tex,

 

Great to see your post and really good to hear how well your doing. You are down to the lower numbers now so please go slow with as many holds as is needed. These lower numbers can be tricky.

 

Stay well my friend! 👍

 

ATU

 

 

ATU,

Nice to hear from you!!  thanks, I'm going slowly with Valium now I'm at 1.5 mg holding for few days.  feeling little or not sx.

I  started tapering Prozac I was in 20mg now in  19 mg, I'm doing very slow.

 

TEx

 

:smitten:

 

Tex,

 

In my book, slow is best! 

 

Glad to hear your doing well. I know Ashton recommends tapering of the Benzo first then the AD but if it's working for you, great!

 

You take care.

 

ATU

[[Mo...]]

[move]ATU at 2.0 [/move]

 

Hey my friend ...

You're at 2 now... Wow..

Well done 

 

I know you hate being in the center of attention but I had to 

 

 

[[mo...]]

THANK YOU EVERYONE for your thoughtful, helpful and supportive words -- I REALLY appreciate you all so much! Especially when I know I've been out of touch for awhile...

 

After holding for  over week at 5.2 mgs, I finally had a decent day today and have changed my cuts to 2mls per day starting with tonight's dose...I'm down to 5.18 to see how it goes. I just want to get to 5mgs (since that is an amount that doesn't require titration and can be all tablets, which is much easier for traveling with all the work and family issues I have going on right now) Based on what you all shared, I may just hold there a few weeks if I have sxs again.

 

I don't think I realized that people are hitting walls with the micro tapers because for me it was just light years better than the cut and hold until I got down to 5.75, but the neurologists are going to make me start taking depakote if I keep having migralepsy episodes, (and I DON'T want yet ANOTHER drug to have to taper from!) so I'm going to slow down. It makes sense that the lower the dose is the less I might need to cut due to percentages of cuts increasing, but even though I am living proof of it, I still can't believe a difference of 3-5 mgs could have such an impact on me at this stage of the taper! I'm so glad BB was here to check in with because I actually thought maybe I was doing something wrong or having some other health problems, but it seems to be plain old benzo W/D...

 

Thank you all again, and I hope my experience can be helpful for someone else coming along!

 

Best wishes to all,

 

Mo

[[pa...]]

Hi All,

 

I thought I can update here to tell u guys I'm doing fine soon. But here I am again, almost tearing when I'm writing this...

I had my last dose of valium on 31st July (0.02mg). I have very minimal symptoms for many months already and I think I'm

truly recovering.

 

Since 1st August until yesterday night, I FEEL PERFECTLY OK. However, I had a sudden episode of heart palpitation last night and it actually happen twice! I was waken up by the sudden heart palpitation and tried to do my breathing exercise. It didn't

came down and eventually went higher and higher. I have no choice but to wake my partner up and inform him how uncomfortable I feel. Valium cross my mind for quick relief and I give in to it, sadly. I took half a pill. Continue to do my breathing exercise and manage to sleep shortly.

 

3 hrs later, another episode arise. It came even faster than the 1st episode and left me calling my partner to go ER. I took another half a pill of valium. After abt 5 or 10 mins, my heartbeat went down again. My stomach was bloating a lot and I think there's a link to this panic attack. I have minimal intake of sugar for a few weeks, however, yesterday, I gave in to my sweet tooth and had my favourite waffle with ice cream as supper. I wonder if this was a sugar rush?? 2 or 3 wks ago, my partner told me he felt my heart palpitation while I was sound asleep. I had no idea during that episode.

 

I wonder if anyone out here has this same experience as me?? What should I do since I have taken 2mg of valium last night?? Do I need to taper again?!?!  :'(

 

Feeling lost...

panicnomore

 

[[Di...]]

Hi panic

 

What you are going through is perfectly normal (well for benzos anyway ). Just when you think everything is going okay it can really sneak up on you and smack you hard. This happened to me a number of times after I finished my taper, and it can be very depressing, but it does get better.

 

I think the fact that things seemed to settle after you took the valium indicates that the symptoms you had was your body getting cranky because you weren't giving it any valium, and once it got some it relaxed. I also think your suspicion about the sugar is correct too, because it can certainly give me heart palpitations, so I try to avoid it as much as possible at night, which sucks if I want to have a nice dessert when I go out for dinner..lol....

 

Windows and waves are going to happen in these early stages of benzo healing. I finished at zero, so even lower than you, and I still had windows and waves for maybe about 6 months afterwards. 

 

I would certainly try not to give in to taking any more valium. You might feel a bit off for a little while, but I think that would be preferable to taking any more and then just having to taper it again.

 

[[pa...]]

HI Diaz-Pam,

 

Thanks for your quick reply! I desperately need it and even though I guess its withdrawal, I need somebody to reassure me.

 

I have so much regrets taking valium last night. Now i can only hope i have manageable symptoms for the days to come. 

 

Thanks for your advise!! sooo appreciated. 

[[ar...]]

HI Diaz-Pam,

 

Thanks for your quick reply! I desperately need it and even though I guess its withdrawal, I need somebody to reassure me.

 

I have so much regrets taking valium last night. Now i can only hope i have manageable symptoms for the days to come. 

 

Thanks for your advise!! sooo appreciated. 

 

Is getting rid of the Valium an option?

[[ri...]]

Hiphop,

Have you been medically checked for fatty liver or sepsis?

 

 

Mrtmeo, this is the second time I have heard you mention something about the fatty liver.  I have one and am having a hell of a time with this taper.  I can't get passed 14 mgs without going into acute withdrawal.  But I do have another disease on board that I am going to the Mayo for in Oct.  Can you explain to me  how a fatty liver can interfere with the metabolism of valium.  I am typically a fast metabolizer, I have to dose 4 times a day.

 

Thanks so much, River

[[Ki...]]

Hello Valium group,

I have a question about Valium.

I had to go back on Klonopin because I couldnt tolerate Valium

How long does it take for Valium to leave my body?

Thanks