Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Ba...]]

Builder,

 

try and bear with me - I don't know what this means 

"I don't mathematically know any way to take .5mg dry and get to .35mg by adding liquid"

 

I want to cut and hold the 13mg to 12.35 - please explain that quote as right now I thought I understood but I guess I don't .

 

I am not trying to take .5mg dry and get to .35 mg by adding liquid, I want to on the first day do a cut and hold using both dry and liquid to get to 12.35 - this still doesn't make sense to you so I must not be correct is thinking taking 12 mg pills and .35 mg liquid and holding at this amount is getting me to the 5%.  I don't get it. the numbers seems to work but I guess not.  Help please.

[[bu...]]

Builder,

 

try and bear with me - I don't know what this means 

"I don't mathematically know any way to take .5mg dry and get to .35mg by adding liquid"

 

I want to cut and hold the 13mg to 12.35 - please explain that quote as right now I thought I understood but I guess I don't .

 

What that means is there is no way to start with .5mg, add .35mg, and end up at 12.35mg...not possible.  .5 + .35 will always be .85

 

  Just take 12mg (6X2mg) tablets, and .35mg from liquid.  Its that simple.

 

 

[[fr...]]

  I think the numbers are confusing to some of us.  I think I basically know what you are saying.  What you need is a UTube vidio or something so someone could actually show how to do it.  Anyone know of any utube out there that we can watch.  Trying to do it from reading is too confusing sometimes.  If no utube maybe you could go to a compounding pharmacy and they would be kind enough to show you how to do it. 

[[Di...]]

Builder

 

I only have 2 mg pills - Can u give me that calculation using 2 mg pills - and in your first post you said it was a 15% reduction over two weeks - I don't understand that.  I want to use .5mg dry cut with the remaining fraction in liquid to total a 5%-6% reduction over two weeks.  Am I calculating wrong - all these numbers are spinning in my head.  I truly apologize for my lack of understanding. 

 

Please - what is confusing about the combo? - I can't dry cut the fraction so I need to use liquid.  I don't want to use all liquid at this point for my reduction - I will do that eventually.  I must be missing something.

 

I think I understand what you are trying to do, but TBH I think you're stressing yourself too much by trying to work it out. Why not just stick with the 0.5mg dry cut for the time being, and then when you get to the dose you want to be at you can switch to doing a straight daily taper, and then you can follow the details I gave you above.

 

You don't have to keep to a 5% cut. If you are worried about going slower than you think you should - I'd rather go too slow than too fast, and it is much less stressful than you trying to work out all these figures.

[[Di...]]

Builder,

 

try and bear with me - I don't know what this means 

"I don't mathematically know any way to take .5mg dry and get to .35mg by adding liquid"

 

I want to cut and hold the 13mg to 12.35 - please explain that quote as right now I thought I understood but I guess I don't .

 

I am not trying to take .5mg dry and get to .35 mg by adding liquid, I want to on the first day do a cut and hold using both dry and liquid to get to 12.35 - this still doesn't make sense to you so I must not be correct is thinking taking 12 mg pills and .35 mg liquid and holding at this amount is getting me to the 5%.  I don't get it. the numbers seems to work but I guess not.  Help please.

 

I’ve read your other posts following the one I’ve replied to above and it’s actually quite simple to work this out. Builder has already given you the best way to do it, but let’s see if I can give you some more information to make it clearer.

 

First of all I want to make sure I’ve got what you want to do right. You want to take a total of 12.35mg and hold there for 2 weeks, before cutting again to 12mg? Is that right? If so, this is what I’d do.

 

Take 12mg as dry tablets (6 x 2mg tablets). Then you need to take an additional 0.35mg, to have a total dose of 12.35mg. Right? You can't do that by using 0.5mg because that is larger than 0.35mg.

 

So make up a vodka/valium/water solution by allowing 1mg valium (half a 2mg tablet) to dissolve in 2ml of vodka for a minute or so. Then add 98ml of water. This has now given you a 100ml solution which equals 1mg of valium.

 

So now all you have to do is measure out the extra 0.35mg that you need. That’s easy. Because you have a 100ml solution, that 0.35mg now equals 35ml (you just multiply the 0.35mg by 100). So all you have to do is measure out 35ml from that 100ml solution. That’s your complete dose for the day. Keep the rest of that solution in a tightly sealed glass jar in a dark cupboard.

 

The next day you would do exactly the same thing – take 12mg in dry tablets and measure out another 35ml from your solution.

 

Keep doing this for the 2 weeks and see how you feel. If you feel you are ready to cut again, just stop using the solution and just take your 12mg of tablets.

 

When you’ve used up a mixture just make another one. However, because that 100ml mixture will only last not quite 3 days what you could do is make up a double mixture that will last a bit longer.

 

To do that put a 2mg valium tablet in 4ml of vodka. Allow to dissolve and add 196ml of water. This has now given you are double mixture of 200ml that will last you a bit over 5 days.

 

Then if you feel you are ready to start a daily liquid taper you just make up a solution exactly as you did above, but instead of taking the same liquid dose every day you would start out taking the whole 100ml and then decrease the amount you take each day. 

 

Having said all that, I still think that, as I said above, a much easier way to get to 12mg is to just cut to 12.5mg and then 2 weeks later cut to 12mg, using all dry tablets.

[[ar...]]

Day 10 of holding at 1.5ml.  This bugger doesn't want to stabilize. 

 

One of these days.

[[bu...]]

Builder,

 

try and bear with me - I don't know what this means 

"I don't mathematically know any way to take .5mg dry and get to .35mg by adding liquid"

 

I want to cut and hold the 13mg to 12.35 - please explain that quote as right now I thought I understood but I guess I don't .

 

I am not trying to take .5mg dry and get to .35 mg by adding liquid, I want to on the first day do a cut and hold using both dry and liquid to get to 12.35 - this still doesn't make sense to you so I must not be correct is thinking taking 12 mg pills and .35 mg liquid and holding at this amount is getting me to the 5%.  I don't get it. the numbers seems to work but I guess not.  Help please.

 

I’ve read your other posts following the one I’ve replied to above and it’s actually quite simple to work this out. Builder has already given you the best way to do it, but let’s see if I can give you some more information to make it clearer.

 

First of all I want to make sure I’ve got what you want to do right. You want to take a total of 12.35mg and hold there for 2 weeks, before cutting again to 12mg? Is that right? If so, this is what I’d do.

 

Take 12mg as dry tablets (6 x 2mg tablets). Then you need to take an additional 0.35mg, to have a total dose of 12.35mg. Right? You can't do that by using 0.5mg because that is larger than 0.35mg.

 

So make up a vodka/valium/water solution by allowing 1mg valium (half a 2mg tablet) to dissolve in 2ml of vodka for a minute or so. Then add 98ml of water. This has now given you a 100ml solution which equals 1mg of valium.

 

So now all you have to do is measure out the extra 0.35mg that you need. That’s easy. Because you have a 100ml solution, that 0.35mg now equals 35ml (you just multiply the 0.35mg by 100). So all you have to do is measure out 35ml from that 100ml solution. That’s your complete dose for the day. Keep the rest of that solution in a tightly sealed glass jar in a dark cupboard.

 

The next day you would do exactly the same thing – take 12mg in dry tablets and measure out another 35ml from your solution.

 

Keep doing this for the 2 weeks and see how you feel. If you feel you are ready to cut again, just stop using the solution and just take your 12mg of tablets.

 

When you’ve used up a mixture just make another one. However, because that 100ml mixture will only last not quite 3 days what you could do is make up a double mixture that will last a bit longer.

 

To do that put a 2mg valium tablet in 4ml of vodka. Allow to dissolve and add 196ml of water. This has now given you are double mixture of 200ml that will last you a bit over 5 days.

 

Then if you feel you are ready to start a daily liquid taper you just make up a solution exactly as you did above, but instead of taking the same liquid dose every day you would start out taking the whole 100ml and then decrease the amount you take each day. 

 

Having said all that, I still think that, as I said above, a much easier way to get to 12mg is to just cut to 12.5mg and then 2 weeks later cut to 12mg, using all dry tablets.

 

Thanks for the backup, Pam.  I hope this helps her.

[[or...]]

arcade about this:

 

Day 10 of holding at 1.5ml.  This bugger doesn't want to stabilize. 

 

One of these days.

 

You'll get stable. I hit a bad patch once and had to hold for 9 freakin' weeks. Ugh. But I stabilized. Not sayin' you'll have to . . . just sayin' . . .

 

Hand on, my friend!

[[Di...]]

 

Thanks for the backup, Pam.  I hope this helps her.

 

[[ar...]]

arcade about this:

 

Day 10 of holding at 1.5ml.  This bugger doesn't want to stabilize. 

 

One of these days.

 

You'll get stable. I hit a bad patch once and had to hold for 9 freakin' weeks. Ugh. But I stabilized. Not sayin' you'll have to . . . just sayin' . . .

 

Hand on, my friend!

 

Thanks Katz.  Not cutting until stable.  Holding my ground. 

[[Di...]]

Yeah, hang in there arcade. You haven't got far to go.

 

Sometimes you just have to keep holding until......  I had to do a 2 month hold at 1mg. It sucked, but it was what I needed to do at the time. Now I'm nearly 14 months free!!!!

[[ar...]]

Yeah, hang in there arcade. You haven't got far to go.

 

Sometimes you just have to keep holding until......  I had to do a 2 month hold at 1mg. It sucked, but it was what I needed to do at the time. Now I'm nearly 14 months free!!!!

 

Thank you Pam. 

[[Ba...]]

Builder and Diaz-pam,

 

You both have been a great help - as always.  Sorry for my confusion.  As always I tend to over focus on details.  Thanks for your patience.

 

Diaz-pam,

the only thing that is not 100% correct is next time ( two weeks or so) I intend to go down a little below the 12 mg mark.

[[...]]

Hey everyone I have what is probably a dumb question.  When daily micro tapering , why not just use a syringe and draw up the liquid , then titrate that way daily instead of diluting the liquid diazepam?  Today I was at my gp and she gave me a one ml syringe and said I could just do it that way.  You can look at the tiny lines and decide how much you want to deduct every day.  Then you don't have the " toss" issue and it just seems simpler.  Does anyone do it that way?  The way she showed me was equal to getting rid of 1 mg in twenty days.  Seemed to make sense to me and be simpler than diluting.

Just wondering.  I'm new to micro tapering. Thanks guys.

Jan

[[ar...]]

Hey everyone I have what is probably a dumb question.  When daily micro tapering , why not just use a syringe and draw up the liquid , then titrate that way daily instead of diluting the liquid diazepam?  Today I was at my gp and she gave me a one ml syringe and said I could just do it that way.  You can look at the tiny lines and decide how much you want to deduct every day.  Then you don't have the " toss" issue and it just seems simpler.  Does anyone do it that way?  The way she showed me was equal to getting rid of 1 mg in twenty days.  Seemed to make sense to me and be simpler than diluting.

Just wondering.  I'm new to micro tapering. Thanks guys.

Jan

 

I do it that way.  I have good eyes. 

 

If I have to go below a .01 taper rate...

[[...]]

Oh ! So people do it that way.  It seems easier.  I have glasses but can see the little lines.

Thank you for the quick reply!  I posted it on the micro taper group too.

Jan

[[mr...]]

Hey everyone I have what is probably a dumb question.  When daily micro tapering , why not just use a syringe and draw up the liquid , then titrate that way daily instead of diluting the liquid diazepam?  Today I was at my gp and she gave me a one ml syringe and said I could just do it that way.  You can look at the tiny lines and decide how much you want to deduct every day.  Then you don't have the " toss" issue and it just seems simpler.  Does anyone do it that way?  The way she showed me was equal to getting rid of 1 mg in twenty days.  Seemed to make sense to me and be simpler than diluting.

Just wondering.  I'm new to micro tapering. Thanks guys.

Jan

Hi Djd,

That is the way I did it for my mom the whole way down.

I did cuts for about 10 days and would hold for 18 days.

[[bu...]]

Builder and Diaz-pam,

 

You both have been a great help - as always.  Sorry for my confusion.  As always I tend to over focus on details.  Thanks for your patience.

 

Diaz-pam,

the only thing that is not 100% correct is next time ( two weeks or so) I intend to go down a little below the 12 mg mark.

 

:)

[[...]]

Thanks mrtmeo!

[[bu...]]

Hey everyone I have what is probably a dumb question.  When daily micro tapering , why not just use a syringe and draw up the liquid , then titrate that way daily instead of diluting the liquid diazepam?  Today I was at my gp and she gave me a one ml syringe and said I could just do it that way.  You can look at the tiny lines and decide how much you want to deduct every day.  Then you don't have the " toss" issue and it just seems simpler.  Does anyone do it that way?  The way she showed me was equal to getting rid of 1 mg in twenty days.  Seemed to make sense to me and be simpler than diluting.

Just wondering.  I'm new to micro tapering. Thanks guys.

Jan

 

 

1) A 1ml syringe has 50 graduations, each graduation if .02ml.  If you use full strength Rx liquid, the smallest you can measure will be .02mg.  Is that a small enough measurement.  For much of my taper, I was cutting .015mg a day, then .001mg/day.  There is no way I could have done it with 1mg=1ml liquid. 

 

2) Using full 1mg=1ml  liquid, if you mis-read by even half a mark on that 1ml syringe while measuring .02, then its a 50% error.  but if you were using 1mg=10ml, then its only a 5% error.  And if your using1mg=100ml, then its only .5% error. 

 

3)  And its a whole lot easier to measure .2ml than it is to measure .02ml.  Or far easier to measure 2ml than to measure .02ml.

 

Dilution just makes everything so much easier, so much more precise, so much more consistent.

 

 

[[mr...]]

Hey everyone I have what is probably a dumb question.  When daily micro tapering , why not just use a syringe and draw up the liquid , then titrate that way daily instead of diluting the liquid diazepam?  Today I was at my gp and she gave me a one ml syringe and said I could just do it that way.  You can look at the tiny lines and decide how much you want to deduct every day.  Then you don't have the " toss" issue and it just seems simpler.  Does anyone do it that way?  The way she showed me was equal to getting rid of 1 mg in twenty days.  Seemed to make sense to me and be simpler than diluting.

Just wondering.  I'm new to micro tapering. Thanks guys.

Jan

 

 

1) A 1ml syringe has 50 graduations, each graduation if .02ml.  If you use full strength Rx liquid, the smallest you can measure will be .02mg.  Is that a small enough measurement.  For much of my taper, I was cutting .015mg a day, then .001mg/day.  There is no way I could have done it with 1mg=1ml liquid. 

 

2) Using full 1mg=1ml  liquid, if you mis-read by even half a mark on that 1ml syringe while measuring .02, then its a 50% error.  but if you were using 1mg=10ml, then its only a 5% error.  And if your using1mg=100ml, then its only .5% error. 

 

3)  And its a whole lot easier to measure .2ml than it is to measure .02ml.  Or far easier to measure 2ml than to measure .02ml.

 

Dilution just makes everything so much easier, so much more precise, so much more consistent.

 

 

 

I use a .5mL syringe that has .01mL graduations.

For .005mL cuts, I can read between the graduations.

[[Di...]]

 

Diaz-pam,

the only thing that is not 100% correct is next time ( two weeks or so) I intend to go down a little below the 12 mg mark.

 

Sorry, I thought I read somewhere that you were intending to start a daily taper, in which case it would be better to start from a whole number, but if you're just continuing with a cut and hold taper, and using the liquid for the extra bit, that's fine.

 

I still think it is better to decide on one method or the other though. Daily tapering is something you may find you will have to do when your dose gets lower anyway. Most people on diazepam seem to find they need to switch from a cut and hold around the 10mg mark.

[[Di...]]

Hey everyone I have what is probably a dumb question.  When daily micro tapering , why not just use a syringe and draw up the liquid , then titrate that way daily instead of diluting the liquid diazepam?  Today I was at my gp and she gave me a one ml syringe and said I could just do it that way.  You can look at the tiny lines and decide how much you want to deduct every day.  Then you don't have the " toss" issue and it just seems simpler.  Does anyone do it that way?  The way she showed me was equal to getting rid of 1 mg in twenty days.  Seemed to make sense to me and be simpler than diluting.

Just wondering.  I'm new to micro tapering. Thanks guys.

Jan

 

 

1) A 1ml syringe has 50 graduations, each graduation if .02ml.  If you use full strength Rx liquid, the smallest you can measure will be .02mg.  Is that a small enough measurement.  For much of my taper, I was cutting .015mg a day, then .001mg/day.  There is no way I could have done it with 1mg=1ml liquid. 

 

2) Using full 1mg=1ml  liquid, if you mis-read by even half a mark on that 1ml syringe while measuring .02, then its a 50% error.  but if you were using 1mg=10ml, then its only a 5% error.  And if your using1mg=100ml, then its only .5% error. 

 

3)  And its a whole lot easier to measure .2ml than it is to measure .02ml.  Or far easier to measure 2ml than to measure .02ml.

 

Dilution just makes everything so much easier, so much more precise, so much more consistent.

 

 

 

^^ This.

 

Most LVs are 1ml:1mg and that makes for a very concentrated liquid (The UK has a 2mg:5ml concentration which would be a little easier to measure with a 1ml syringe).

 

So for most LVs the tiniest inconsistancy in measuring can have a dramatic affect on your taper. You might be able to get away with using a 1ml syringe and undiluted liquid when your dose is higher and you are measuring a larger amount, but when your dose gets lower you would need to measure a really tiny amount and the accuracy just isn't there. 

 

Like builder, for the end part of my taper I was measuring 0.01mg and lower (0.005mg and 0.001mg right at the end) and there is no way my hand would be steady enough to measure such a small amount, even if I had a smaller syringe than 1ml.

 

Diluting the liquid is very easy and only takes a few seconds. So TBH I don't understand why you wouldn't want to dilute it to make sure you are getting a very accurate dose. In fact I understand that some bottles of LV actually say it has to be diluted.

[[Te...]]

Hello all my fellow BB,

I used to come to this forum when I feel bad, but I want to share with all of you that there is hope and great windows,  a week before I had a  very good window, then I travel to Pensacola beach and I got weird and sx for 4 days,  mostly muscle pain and h blood pressure and anxiety,  but after I start doing my routine I start feeling better and better, now I had 3 perfect days.  It's amazing not sx  at all,  I hope It will continue,  I'm in 1.75 mg Valium  and 20 mg prozac,  sometimes I felt  that this window is fake because I'm taking Prozac,    I don't recommend Prozac to anybody but my sister who lives in Germany insisted in me to take an AD, 

I think part of this great window is because my eating habits,  My girlfriend cooks  delicious Peruvian food,  no spicy, almost no meat,  fish, little chicken,  potatoes, sweet potatoes, fried corn. fruits.  believe me your gut needs to be happy,  the Pensacola  and New Orleans food made me sick,  even we were looking for the best food,It was all crap.

 

Before I was a workaholic, now I'm going back to my workaholics habits, BUT FIRST IS MY FOOD!!!    happy stomach happy brain, 

 

some days I even forget to take my Valium pills, I have to take it because I'm following a taper, but sometimes I felt that I dont need it.

 

I always had small windows, but with sx,  this is different :  this a "normal day life" 

 

 

Hope this help someone, I was hopeless,  thanks Moodle and ATU,  Katz, Diaz-Pam, builder, where is the sweet benzogirl

 

kittnesick:  there is hope!!

 

 

OK.  Gracias

 

Now back to work!!!  lol

 

Tex

 

:smitten: :smitten:

 

[[bu...]]

Hey everyone I have what is probably a dumb question.  When daily micro tapering , why not just use a syringe and draw up the liquid , then titrate that way daily instead of diluting the liquid diazepam?  Today I was at my gp and she gave me a one ml syringe and said I could just do it that way.  You can look at the tiny lines and decide how much you want to deduct every day.  Then you don't have the " toss" issue and it just seems simpler.  Does anyone do it that way?  The way she showed me was equal to getting rid of 1 mg in twenty days.  Seemed to make sense to me and be simpler than diluting.

Just wondering.  I'm new to micro tapering. Thanks guys.

Jan

 

 

1) A 1ml syringe has 50 graduations, each graduation if .02ml.  If you use full strength Rx liquid, the smallest you can measure will be .02mg.  Is that a small enough measurement.  For much of my taper, I was cutting .015mg a day, then .001mg/day.  There is no way I could have done it with 1mg=1ml liquid. 

 

2) Using full 1mg=1ml  liquid, if you mis-read by even half a mark on that 1ml syringe while measuring .02, then its a 50% error.  but if you were using 1mg=10ml, then its only a 5% error.  And if your using1mg=100ml, then its only .5% error. 

 

3)  And its a whole lot easier to measure .2ml than it is to measure .02ml.  Or far easier to measure 2ml than to measure .02ml.

 

Dilution just makes everything so much easier, so much more precise, so much more consistent.

 

 

 

^^ This.

 

Most LVs are 1ml:1mg and that makes for a very concentrated liquid (The UK has a 2mg:5ml concentration which would be a little easier to measure with a 1ml syringe).

 

So for most LVs the tiniest inconsistancy in measuring can have a dramatic affect on your taper. You might be able to get away with using a 1ml syringe and undiluted liquid when your dose is higher and you are measuring a larger amount, but when your dose gets lower you would need to measure a really tiny amount and the accuracy just isn't there. 

Like builder, for the end part of my taper I was measuring 0.01mg and lower (0.005mg and 0.001mg right at the end) and there is no way my hand would be steady enough to measure such a small amount, even if I had a smaller syringe than 1ml.

 

Diluting the liquid is very easy and only takes a few seconds. So TBH I don't understand why you wouldn't want to dilute it to make sure you are getting a very accurate dose. In fact I understand that some bottles of LV actually say it has to be diluted.

 

I of course agree.  Dilution is so quick and simple, and it's one of the major advantages offered by using liquid.  Why would you NOT want to dilute?  It just makes measuring your dose so much easier and so much more precise.