Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[ph...]]

Glad you are home safe and wish for you a "peaceful" taper, Donna

[[or...]]

Djd I assume you are asking about a reduction amount using a daily taper. That's what we were last talking about.

 

I think .03 mgs a day would be a reasonable daily reduction to start out with. If that size cut is too big, try .02 mgs. I found that .01 was all I could handle. But everyone's different.

 

You could look at buddy jjrosk's signature. I believe he started daily tapering at .03 mgs. He reduced his cut rate systematically as his taper progressed and I think his is a good model to follow. 

 

Good luck.

 

 

[[...]]

Thank you Oregon Katz for getting back to me!  I agre I need a much slower taper because I'm so sick right now.  I just don't want to totally stop tapering, so I'm not sure if I should take a break ( I'm afraid of tolerance withdrawal) or continue to micro taper.  Right now I'm in bad shape so I think I will give it a week or so before deciding .  But I sure do appreciatie your answer and also the titration schedule .

Thanks again,

Jan

[[Se...]]

Has anybody developed liver problems on Valium?

I can't explain it but everything I eat affects my next dose... Fats, what soap I use, foods. Consistently I can repeat this over and over. So frustrated.

If I eat red peppers with breakfast, when I take my afternoon dose at 2 pm it knocks me out. Same with coconut oil. I am never going to get off this stuff.

I know it has to do with the CYP450 enzymes and their up regulation through this, but good grief am I the only one?

Valium is messy call the metabolites are messy. IMO. Not long acting in this body at all.

Thanks for anybody that can chime in!

Blessings

Selah

[[be...]]

Glad you are home safe and wish for you a "peaceful" taper, Donna

 

[[be...]]

Djd I assume you are asking about a reduction amount using a daily taper. That's what we were last talking about.

 

I think .03 mgs a day would be a reasonable daily reduction to start out with. If that size cut is too big, try .02 mgs. I found that .01 was all I could handle. But everyone's different.

 

You could look at buddy jjrosk's signature. I believe he started daily tapering at .03 mgs. He reduced his cut rate systematically as his taper progressed and I think his is a good model to follow. 

 

Good luck.

 

Katz:

 

Hi: I am going to start my daily taper soon from 70 mg of Valium. Using liquid and pills. I was told that if I cut by .25 mg per day, that would mean a 5% cut every two weeks. But that drop seems high to me. Does it seem high to you?

[[mr...]]

Djd I assume you are asking about a reduction amount using a daily taper. That's what we were last talking about.

 

I think .03 mgs a day would be a reasonable daily reduction to start out with. If that size cut is too big, try .02 mgs. I found that .01 was all I could handle. But everyone's different.

 

You could look at buddy jjrosk's signature. I believe he started daily tapering at .03 mgs. He reduced his cut rate systematically as his taper progressed and I think his is a good model to follow. 

 

Good luck.

 

Katz:

 

Hi: I am going to start my daily taper soon from 70 mg of Valium. Using liquid and pills. I was told that if I cut by .25 mg per day, that would mean a 5% cut every two weeks. But that drop seems high to me. Does it seem high to you?

That calculates right to me.

Realize that you are on a VERY high dose valium, so small cuts will sound really high.

[[or...]]

Bets, a 5% drop every two weeks, or 10% a month seems alright to me.

 

Even though I am doing a daily taper, I tried not to exceed 10% a month.

[[be...]]

Thanks mrtmeo and katz. Yes it does seem like a high drop to me. I have to keep reminding myself that 70 mg is not a low dose... Builder gave me the info on doing a progressive drop. Katz, I agree. I don't want to go any higher than 10% a month. Someone earlier suggested that I cut by 5% every three weeks instead of just two, because of the long half life. But since this method is so flexible, I can always change at any time. I've been doing a dry daily cut off the last of my K, dropping 5% every two weeks, as so far, no problems at all. TY to both of you.

Bets

[[jj...]]

The term "tolerance withdrawal" has become a completely useless concept at best around here. Once a taper has begun, it's a particularly useless term, since technically speaking any symptoms of withdrawal will be tolerance withdrawal from where you start down to zero and including the time it takes for the active metabolites to clear. The point of a slow taper is to make those symptoms manageable. Blood serum levels of valium continue to drop during holds for up to two months, so you are still tapering during that period that you are holding. Unmanageable withdrawal symptoms area a sign that you have gone to fast and need to give your nervous system a break.

[[mr...]]

I agree with jj.

Tapering is an attempt to reverse the damage caused by the benzo's in the reverse way the damage was created.

 

 

[[Mo...]]

The term "tolerance withdrawal" has become a completely useless concept at best around here. Once a taper has begun, it's a particularly useless term, since technically speaking any symptoms of withdrawal will be tolerance withdrawal from where you start down to zero and including the time it takes for the active metabolites to clear. The point of a slow taper is to make those symptoms manageable. Blood serum levels of valium continue to drop during holds for up to two months, so you are still tapering during that period that you are holding. Unmanageable withdrawal symptoms area a sign that you have gone to fast and need to give your nervous system a break.

 

Yup.

[[cr...]]

Okatz, I have been taking Trazodone for many years.  I take 300 mg unless I take it with Ambien CR 6.5, then I take 150-225...my goal is to be totally drug free.  When my time comes to dump the Trazodone, do you think I will need to taper since I took higher doses than you?  Or is Trazodone just an easy drug to get rid of?  Thank you. Cross

 

 

Basha some people find trazodone to be helpful with sleep issues. It's an old antidepressant which at low doses promotes sleep. You need a script from your doctor for this. I found it to be somewhat helpful but preferred Unisom. I never experienced any problems just discontinuing the drug -- it didn't need a taper.

 

 

[[or...]]

cross I took trazodone at lower doses than you are taking it. Maybe that's why I had no trouble just stopping it. 

 

Or maybe I just got lucky.

 

Since then, and having been on this forum, I have re-thought my opinion about drugs. I think now I would taper anything that I used for awhile.

 

So to answer your question, if I were you, yes it probably would be best to taper it. When the time comes I would reduce it as Ashton suggests we taper benzos (not that it is a benzo). Just to be safe.

 

 

[[fr...]]

  You are so right about tapering from anything you have taken for a while.  I took Zyrtec for about 4 yrs. and one day just stopped it because my eyes were getting so dry and just didn't think I needed it anymore.  I started to get funny feelings, tight throat, itchy feeling, sick etc.  Mostly felt like my throat was closing, it was awful.  I was talking about it to a guy at work and he said boy your throat issues sound like an allergy.  Bingo, it registered that I had stopped the Zyrtec cold turkey.  I took one and all symptoms went away.  Then I slowly tapered, it only took a few weeks but had no more throat issues.  Also, I am trying to taper Zantac now and find it revs up the Benzo withdrawals and also causes me more nausea and diarrhea.  So I will just wait on that one also until I'm off the Valium.  Bets, i started on 20 mg. of V and I did cuts of 1.25 mg. at a time.  This last one was a doozy and I am still feeling it at almost 3 weeks out so take it from me, go slow.  I am going to ask the Dr. to give me liquid V so I can use tablets and liquid at same time and see if I can go slower and feel better.  Hope everyone has a good day today and slower is better for most people.  I must be very med sensitive since everything effects me so badly.  God Bless.

[[be...]]

 

 

free: How often did you make those .125 mg cuts? TY

Bets

[[fr...]]

  Bets, About once a month, I had to go really slow.  I would cut and wouldn't feel it for about a week.  Then it took 2 or 3 more to feel fairly stable.  This last cut which I guess was a bigger percentage, really hit me hard after over 2 weeks so now I'm going to hold again.  I was on the A for 4 yrs. so I guess I can't go too fast.  Also, V is so long acting and I'm not moving around at all since I'm incapacitated with the sciatica, spine issues and waiting for surgery.  Just go slow at first and see how you do. If you already have the liquid you can make much smaller cuts.  I'm going to try the mt after I get more stable and see if I do better.  Good luck and thanks for all your help, I am a mess right now.

[[Mi...]]

I just don't understand how some of you can have "tolerable" withdrawal symptoms. Mine just keep adding up. I'm at 14.5 mg Valium and 1.6 Ativan, down from a total equivalency of about 24 mg Valium in seven months. I never stabilize, just keep getting worse. I so envy those of you who stabilize or have tolerable symptoms. I'm microtapering now with pills and liquid Valium at a rate of .05 mg. per night for five nights per week. It's still awful. Anxiety, pain, brain fog, depression off the charts, panic, fear, nightmares, weakness, etc.

 

I also apparently have a faulty MTHFR gene which affects production of serotonin, dopamine and norephenephrine,  which my doc is trying to fix with hydroxy-B12 and methylfolate. The cause of my lifelong depression. Maybe this is why I'm having such a hard time getting off the benzos. I'm getting tested for the gene and its variations, but getting the results will take two months or more.

 

Any advice or encouragement would be appreciated.

 

MirandaJane

[[fr...]]

  Feel so bad for you Miranda.  My sx's never go away either, just get to tolerable but I"m still not good.  This weekend was a nightmare with the tongue and urinary burning, pressure etc.  I also have other things but don't want to give the impression its a party.  Maybe you are going too fast.  Someone with more knowledge will answer I'm sure.  I didn't have too much trouble crossing over from A but I did it very slowly also.  Now cutting the V I see isn't going to fast or easy so don't think you are alone.  I pray for a better taper for you and some answers from the tests etc.  Have no advice except Advil did help this weekend with the pressure etc.  Maybe something you could ask your Dr. if it would help.  Feel better.

[[Mi...]]

Freeme - thanks so much for your response. I'm lonely and discouraged and needed some attention today.

 

I'm sorry you are having a hard time too. I so wish I could offer words of advice or encouragement. I started this taper in hopes that it wouldn't be too bad, but it has been much worse than expected. I keep going slower, and it's going to take 2-3 years to get off this stuff. I'm 67 and can't imagine spending so long in this misery.

 

I can't take Advil because I have a stomach disorder that is an additional problem. Tylenol doesn't do much. Like many Benzo Buddies, I have complicating health factors. My only consolation is that Benzo Buddies are in this mess with me.

 

I hope you have windows and are able to heal faster. It really scares me when I read about buddies who don't heal much long after they are benzo free. I try not to read those posts, but sometimes they creep in.

 

If you want to keep up a dialogue, you can respond on my blog - see it on my signature. I have PM blocked due to some creepy personal messages.

 

Wishing you the best, and THANK YOU for your caring,

MirandaJane

[[mr...]]

Freeme - thanks so much for your response. I'm lonely and discouraged and needed some attention today.

 

I'm sorry you are having a hard time too. I so wish I could offer words of advice or encouragement. I started this taper in hopes that it wouldn't be too bad, but it has been much worse than expected. I keep going slower, and it's going to take 2-3 years to get off this stuff. I'm 67 and can't imagine spending so long in this misery.

 

I can't take Advil because I have a stomach disorder that is an additional problem. Tylenol doesn't do much. Like many Benzo Buddies, I have complicating health factors. My only consolation is that Benzo Buddies are in this mess with me.

 

I hope you have windows and are able to heal faster. It really scares me when I read about buddies who don't heal much long after they are benzo free. I try not to read those posts, but sometimes they creep in.

 

If you want to keep up a dialogue, you can respond on my blog - see it on my signature. I have PM blocked due to some creepy personal messages.

 

Wishing you the best, and THANK YOU for your caring,

MirandaJane

Oh MJ,

I am so sorry you have to go thru something like gastroparesis on top of withdrawal.

Are you using domperidone and if so, is it working?

I am praying for you.

 

[[Mi...]]

mrtmeo - Thanks for your concern. I'm not taking anything for the gastroparesis - just trying to hang on with six small meals per day - mostly milk blenderized with peanut butter, yogurt, soup, tuna, chicken, eggs and mashed potatoes. So far, holding my weight at 105 lbs.

 

I also have a defective MTHFR gene, which affects neurotransmitters.

 

I'm so sick and tired of being sick and tired. Aren't we all?

 

Thanks again,

MirandaJane

[[mr...]]

mrtmeo - Thanks for your concern. I'm not taking anything for the gastroparesis - just trying to hang on with six small meals per day - mostly milk blenderized with peanut butter, yogurt, soup, tuna, chicken, eggs and mashed potatoes. So far, holding my weight at 105 lbs.

 

I also have a defective MTHFR gene, which affects neurotransmitters.

 

I'm so sick and tired of being sick and tired. Aren't we all?

 

Thanks again,

MirandaJane

I sure hope the methylfolate helps the mthfr issue.

If you mix the methylfolate into some yogurt and let it sit out over night, the good bacteria will break it down into a more absorbable form.

[[or...]]

Miranda this may be part of your problem:

 

I'm microtapering now with pills and liquid Valium at a rate of .05 mg. per night

 

Why not reduce your daily cut rate to .03 or .02 for a few weeks and see if that helps?

 

Hope things improve,

 

Okatz

 

 

[[Kg...]]

Miranda:  Boy do I feel for you - you are where I was last year, nothing was making me feel better and every day was torture to me.  The micro tapering has helped me so perhaps you need to just slow your rate like Okatz said.  The other things you can do is to help your body make the 'good chemicals' it needs to naturally. Two things do this the 1st is meditation and the 2nd is exercise. The 1st is easy to do and just do it every day for 20 minutes a day. Find a you tube that works for you and even though you think it isn't helping you it actually is.  The 2nd exercise I sometimes have trouble doing depending on how I feel so what I do is a very easy yoga you tube called yoga for beginners or yoga for your back.  It if can I also do a short 1 mile walk - either outside or a Leslie Sansone you tube - easy walking tape or her harder ones depending on how I feel.  The yoga has helped me with my balance and breathing and I truly believe it helps your overall health as does the walking.  Sometimes I have to force myself to do these but I do and always feel better for it.  I know you have the genetic disorder so perhaps you do need to take something that will help you with that - I know some people who take gaba calm and that works for them instead of the benzos but I don't know much about what is in it. 

 

I hope you feel better it is so hard to feel awful every day, believe me I know.