Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Di...]]

I really don’t want to step on any toes, but I do know what it’s like to be really brainless about math – I always have been. It’s just not my forte. I’m a literary person.

 

Others though are obviously very comfortable with using math, but the problem is that sometimes explanations end up confusing people for whom titration (and math) is a foreign language. We always need to make sure that what we are explaining is clear and actually making sense to the other person, and not getting impatient if they don’t immediately understand, or if they need to keep asking the same questions.

 

I never used an exclusively “pull to discard” method at all, because I never discarded anything. I always used my “left-overs” as part of my next dose. I simply wrote the procedure that way to help people understand the theory of liquid tapering, although I did specify in that procedure that you can choose to either discard or re-use the “left-overs”. It was then up to people to work out a procedure that worked for them, once they had the basics down.

 

TBH, I think the “pull to discard” or “pull to dose” terminology is really unnecessary, and is just confusing people, and that’s the last thing you want to happen when you are learning about liquid titration. In fact it was only towards the end of my taper that I actually started hearing people using this term. In the previous (almost) 2 years I had never seen that term being used at all.

 

It really doesn't matter how you do it or what you call it, the only thing that's important is that each day's dose decreases by your chosen reduction amount, which could be 1ml (or 0.01mg), 2ml (or 0.02mg), 3ml (or 0.03mg) etc. The only other important thing is that you take note of any upswing of symptoms and hold or decrease your reduction amount accordingly. That's it in a nutshell.

 

At different times of your 1mg taper you could actually do either “pull to discard” or “pull to dose” methods. It will depend where you are in your taper. When I would initially start tapering the 1mg I would use a “pull to discard” technique, and keep that discarded amount as part of my next dose. For example, I would “pull to discard” 2ml (from 100ml), keep that 2ml for my next dose, and drink 98ml, simply because it was easier to pull 2ml than 98ml.

 

Then as the mixture got lower I would then start doing a “pull to dose” method. For example, I would “pull to dose” 2ml (from 100ml), drink that and keep the 98ml for the next dose/s simply because, once again, it was easier to pull 2ml than 98ml. It's horses for courses. You just do what is easiest for you. There are no rules, so please don’t get hung up on unnecessary terminologies.

 

The main thing is to learn the basic technique of doing a liquid titration first, and then once you’ve got the basics down, and you’ve got more experience, it’s up to you to work out the finer points for yourself.

 

For example you can choose to use less liquid (eg 10ml instead of 100ml), you can choose to not cut your 1mg tablet in half (eg use the full 2mg tablet with 200ml), or you can choose to make up large batches that would last you for a number of weeks. I personally never liked doing that because I was never convinced there wouldn’t be a loss of potency, because I do know my bottle of liquid valium did lose potency, but it’s an individual call. I also considered it a bit unnecessary because it literally only took me a minute or two to make up a batch when I needed it, which might have been only once or twice a week. I never liked having a batch made up for longer than a week, because of the potency question, but that's up to the individual.

 

Just as an example of what I used to do when I was using liquid valium, and my dosage amount was very low and I didn't want to waste the batch by throwing it out, I would make a much smaller batch to ensure it always stayed potent. For example, I might put 0.5ml of liquid valium with 49.5ml of water to make a 50ml mixture. Once again, these are things you will work out for yourself as you go along.

 

I personally always used the 100ml liquid method, regardless of whether I was using milk, liquid valium, or vodka, because I found it to be the most straight forward method and because you’re working with a larger volume of liquid that was less concentrated, it made measuring doses very easy to do and gave you more wiggle room, and that’s what it’s all about – make it as easy for yourself as you can because you could be doing a titration for a lengthy period of time. Don’t make a chore of it. Just make it fit in with your life, rather than your life fitting in with it.

 

All I can do is refer people to the method that I have already posted on BB, and which has often been cited as being a very straight forward and easy way to understand the procedure. Before I did that there wasn’t anything on BB that laid out the procedure, in one place, that was easy to follow. There were lots of people giving lots of opinions on lots of different posts, but in most cases people were just getting confused, and I was one of them. Luckily for me Fliprain explained, very patiently, how to do it, and it clicked. Everything with tapering is about patience, even teaching people how to do it.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97511.msg1248599#msg1248599

 

If you choose to follow a different method, that’s fine. It's up to you, but I just really hate seeing people getting confused and anxious over a very straightforward procedure, because I’ve been there and I know what it feels like to be scared and anxious over something so completely foreign to you, but once it clicks into place it’s something you will have no trouble doing at all.

 

I’m always happy to answer people’s questions, but it would probably be best to post any specific questions about that method on the above thread, because I may not always see any questions here, while I will always check that thread for any new posts. I have re-activated my PMs, now that I've had a bit of a break away from BB, but of course, as per the rules of BB, I can't give any specific tapering advice by PM.

 

[[Ki...]]

Dpier,

Can I ask why you cannot do liquid?

Thanks

[[dp...]]

Dpier,

Can I ask why you cannot do liquid?

Thanks

 

Hey. I'm honestly not really sure. I've tried swapping out 1mg of the Valium pills for 1mg of the Rx Liquid and taking the rest in pill form.. (ie: I first tried when I was at 8mg Valium... I took 7mg in pills and 1mg in liquid). It pretty much felt like I had just cut 1mg off my entire dose. I went into pretty horrible withdrawal both times I tried this.

 

This isn't the case with everyone though.. some people handle the switch fine... some people have to hold for a bit and then are fine... I tried holding for 2 weeks and it still didn't sit right.

 

I wouldn't allow it to scare anyone away from trying it, no way... but if someone does try it, just make sure you give it a week or two to settle in and get stable.

 

 

[[dp...]]

Is it normal for people to be this physically sick when they're micro-tapering? It almost has me second guessing shaving pills micro-cutting... I know you are sick Moo... but is severe air hunger, muscle pain, weakness where you can't walk, severely confused, getting memory lapses where I go outside in the backyard and felt like I never left it from like 10 years ago, and generally feeling like you're going to die normal?

 

I don't know if this is just w/d from w/d-ing or w/d from inaccurate shaving.

 

I can't go to liquids.. I've tried.

 

Just wondering if this is something that can happen during a micro.. I've been doing a conservative .02mg/day.

 

Air hunger, weakness, being confused and memory trouble ( also intrusive memories and memories popping up out of nowhere ) are not uncommon at all.

But if it's this extreme, maybe you need to hold for a bit and see if it becomes more tolerable for you?

Many people have done holds, even on a micro taper.

 

I'm sorry you're having such a rough time, D.

 

I'm ok. I've been worse.

In fact, I'm not freaking out about it much I think now. Overall it really is a lot better. A lot.

Right now I'm just annoyed and irritated and not sure when to cut, what to do. But I gues it doesn't matter much now, anyway.

We'll see.

 

Hoping you'll find some relief soon.

In general, I do think liquid is more accurate. You know about the whole homogenous pill thing.

 

Thanks Moo. I do need to hold. I can't imagine it getting much worse without me literally being stuck in bed staring at the ceiling 24/7... I'm not sure why it's gotten this bad so quickly... but the last week and a half.. it's just gone downhill so fast from a physical (not really mental) standpoint that I don't understand. I'm not even really anxious or depressed at all. I'm just horribly exhausted, weak, and my ability to to decipher where I am in time and space is messed up... I don't know if that's part of dp/dr... but it's incredibly scary.

 

Hope you're doing well here towards the end of your taper. You're a big inspiration for me.

[[Ki...]]

Dpier,

oh so it was liquid from Pharmacy not vodka/water solution?

I tried liquid Roche Klonopin before and it was same. It didnt do anything

[[dp...]]

Dpier,

oh so it was liquid from Pharmacy not vodka/water solution?

I tried liquid Roche Klonopin before and it was same. It didnt do anything

 

Yes.. Roxana liquid from pharmacy. It was a horrible, horrible experience. I swear it felt like I just cut 1mg off and didn't take anything. I felt the cut later in the night and by the next few days, I was sweating and panicking and such a risk to myself I had to stop it.

[[Ki...]]

Dpier,

same experience here but with Klonopin. Doctors decided if I cannot do 25%/week ten maybe

drops will do the trick by going slower. It felt like CT and when they gave me 0.5mg pill again

I got kind of stable.

[[...]]

Is anyone still in this support group?  What do you do when you are in a Valium crossover and you Re on a high dose of Valium (35 mls) and every tiny cut makes you sick?  I thought at this high dosage I'd be able to cut like 1 ml a week or every two weeks but I absolutely get taken down when I try,so I've been cutting back tiny little pieces of the pills a week at a time and STILL struggling.  At this rate it's gonna be years and  hen all the paws and all that.  I am really discouraged.  Anyone got some words of hope and encouragement?  The Valium makes me so sleepy too.  I started a god taper Hehn blew it by cutting too much, kindling , my doc way over updosed me ( because no docs know what to do with these drugs) and here I am suffering.  Every day.  I'd appreciate any advice or encouragement. Thanks......

[[mr...]]

Is anyone still in this support group?  What do you do when you are in a Valium crossover and you Re on a high dose of Valium (35 mls) and every tiny cut makes you sick?  I thought at this high dosage I'd be able to cut like 1 ml a week or every two weeks but I absolutely get taken down when I try,so I've been cutting back tiny little pieces of the pills a week at a time and STILL struggling.  At this rate it's gonna be years and  hen all the paws and all that.  I am really discouraged.  Anyone got some words of hope and encouragement?  The Valium makes me so sleepy too.  I started a god taper Hehn blew it by cutting too much, kindling , my doc way over updosed me ( because no docs know what to do with these drugs) and here I am suffering.  Every day.  I'd appreciate any advice or encouragement. Thanks......

djd,

can you add your details to your signature?

This will help people understand your journey.

It sounds like you are in tolerance wd and it takes time to stabilize.

What did you cross over to valium from? how much were you at?

[[Mo...]]

Is anyone still in this support group?  What do you do when you are in a Valium crossover and you Re on a high dose of Valium (35 mls) and every tiny cut makes you sick?  I thought at this high dosage I'd be able to cut like 1 ml a week or every two weeks but I absolutely get taken down when I try,so I've been cutting back tiny little pieces of the pills a week at a time and STILL struggling.  At this rate it's gonna be years and  hen all the paws and all that.  I am really discouraged.  Anyone got some words of hope and encouragement?  The Valium makes me so sleepy too.  I started a god taper Hehn blew it by cutting too much, kindling , my doc way over updosed me ( because no docs know what to do with these drugs) and here I am suffering.  Every day.  I'd appreciate any advice or encouragement. Thanks......

djd,

can you add your details to your signature?

This will help people understand your journey.

It sounds like you are in tolerance wd and it takes time to stabilize.

What did you cross over to valium from? how much were you at?

 

Yup...only about 5000 of us still post here 

 

I agree with mrmteo: it would help a lot to know a bit more.

What you started at, when was the cross over, how fast did you cross over, from what other benzo..

 

Are you taking your dose in liquid only?

 

From what I read you might still be IN your cross over, maybe?

If so, it's not a good idea to cut while crossing over. One needs to get a bit more stable on the Valium dose before starting to taper.

If you're having a really hard time now, it'll,only be worse, IMO if you cut at the same time.

It needs some time and riding out of the worst sx ( symptoms ).

 

I'm sorry you're going through such a rough time.

 

Valium is known to be sedating , especially during and for a bit after crossing over. I had that sleepy, zombie, weepy feeling too. Was did most of us here. Please don't let it worry you: it goes away.

 

It's very much possible to get our of the woods and start a sensible taper.

 

Please add a signature so we can help you better ?just go to " profile " , click price " forum profile " and fill in in the white box and click " change profile " or save changes after doing so.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Welcome to the thread. It can be a bit confusing at first but it'll be okay.

[[Ki...]]

Ok 5000 benzobuddies.

Is it normal that I cannot watch TV or read a book?

I can't and don't know why and I am bedridden so its difficult. I am pretty much waiting for better day

Is it normal and why?

Thanks

[[Mo...]]

Ok 5000 benzobuddies.

Is it normal that I cannot watch TV or read a book?

I can't and don't know why and I am bedridden so its difficult. I am pretty much waiting for better day

Is it normal and why?

Thanks

 

 

Yes. It's normal. I've sent you the link to the post by Parker twice , I think.

Have you read it?

It explains why these things happen to you: your brain is trying to get it right.

You can experience all sorts of cognitive issues, in a wider variety than we could imagine.

 

Just hold on tight. It'll get better.mthos isn't forever....

I know it's hard and painful and lonely.

And you wonder if you're normal,mid it'll ever be okay. I've been there.

And so have many before us.

 

Try reading some succes stories...?

[[Ki...]]

Moodle,

I think I didn't get a link or my memory is really bad also

Can you please send it to me again?

I don't have this problem only when withdrawing. I've had this problem even on pills after couple months staying on Klonopin. It feels like I cannot concentrate on anything, like I almost dont exist.

Having hard time with connection with people. I was on Klonopin twice and first couple months I could read,watch TV but after couple months I just cant I feel like Living in my own weird world

I just feel like doing nothing and if I do I am not really there

But I had couple days when I coud watch TV but very few

[[Mo...]]

Moodle,

I think I didn't get a link or my memory is really bad also

Can you please send it to me again?

I don't have this problem only when withdrawing. I've had this problem even on pills after couple months staying on Klonopin. It feels like I cannot concentrate on anything like I almost dont exist.

Having hard time with connection with people. I was on Klonopin twice and first couple months I could read,watch TV but after couple months I just cant I feel like Living in my own weird world

I just feel like doing nothing and if I do I am not really there

 

Yup... This stuff is designed to make you not feel much, after all. Anxiety, fears, etc.

Unfortunately, it also take away good feelings when it doesn't go well anymore. Right?

 

You get into your own world, can't connect to yourself or others, feel alone, weird, nuts, derealization, depersonalization, and many other things that can occur.

 

I remember looking in the mirror and not seeing myself!

 

I'll,post it again, if you can, read it, let your loved ones read it. In small pieces even,

What's happening to you is " normal" during a taper. As in: nothing's normal right now. Which is part of this journey.

 

Here it comes again

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=66397.0

 

[[Ki...]]

Moodle,

yes that's exactly how it is :'(

I feel so sad when I am trying to talk normal to a family member but just can't

And yes I don't even look same. I show pictures to people that don't know me and they are shocked.

They ask me how did this happen,that I don't like that person in pictures I look in mirror and

I don't know that person.

Will this get better?

Ok I am going to read your post.

Thanks

[[Mo...]]

Moodle,

yes that's exactly how it is :'(

I feel so sad when I am trying to talk normal to a family member but just can't

And yes I don't even look same. I show pictures to people that don't know me and they are shocked.

They ask me how did this happen,that I don't like that person in pictures I look in mirror and

I don't know that person.

Will this get better?

Ok I am going to read your post.

Thanks

 

Yes, remember ..and remind yourself ..that this kind of thinking can be just as much of a symptoms as anything else. Okay?

I have felt like you describe. I don't recognize myself. I looked awful. Bags under my eyes, weigh loss, weird skin . My hair looked like a toilet brush.

It's okay, though. As much as it sucks, I think our looks are becoming less and less important : all I wanted was to not feel the mental torture and I couldn't have cared less about my face at some points.

You know, I didn't answer my phone or opened the door .

My mom and I are pretty close and we talk each day. But during the worst of it, I just could not cope with talking to anyone.

Every stimulus was too much. Sound , light etc.

No reading, no tv.

So..then what? Then you just kind of stay in bed, in the couch, watching yourself like a hawk, being on top of your feelings all the time. Wondering if you'll ever be you again..

Right?

So, please try and find something to distract you.

I started crocheting. It was hard but I kept on doing it till it became a habit.

YouTube videos, short ones. Guided meditations. Anything to just get me through the next few hours.

 

Don't give up on yourself. You're still you, just hidden away for a while.

 

If you can try to accept this is how it will be, for a while..it helps greatly.

See it as part of your journey. As part of the healing a process. You're doing it, you've started a taper. And as you'll go lower and lower you'll feel better. Till eventually you get windows, better periods of the day, then better days altogether. Till you're used to feeling better overall and you'll find yourself where I am now, eventually.

 

It's all in phases . And it'll come and go. But it's very normal to feel like you feel now.

It isn't your mind. It's your brain.

Although mindset will come into play when you get lower, for me, that was the case.

 

Alright. I just wrote you a novel. But I wanted to let you know I can relate and that healing happens .

 

[[jj...]]

dpier, vodka method baby! Same pill, just dissolved.

[[Ca...]]

Moodle,

yes that's exactly how it is :'(

I feel so sad when I am trying to talk normal to a family member but just can't

And yes I don't even look same. I show pictures to people that don't know me and they are shocked.

They ask me how did this happen,that I don't like that person in pictures I look in mirror and

I don't know that person.

Will this get better?

Ok I am going to read your post.

Thanks

 

Yes, remember ..and remind yourself ..that this kind of thinking can be just as much of a symptoms as anything else. Okay?

I have felt like you describe. I don't recognize myself. I looked awful. Bags under my eyes, weigh loss, weird skin . My hair looked like a toilet brush.

It's okay, though. As much as it sucks, I think our looks are becoming less and less important : all I wanted was to not feel the mental torture and I couldn't have cared less about my face at some points.

You know, I didn't answer my phone or opened the door .

My mom and I are pretty close and we talk each day. But during the worst of it, I just could not cope with talking to anyone.

Every stimulus was too much. Sound , light etc.

No reading, no tv.

So..then what? Then you just kind of stay in bed, in the couch, watching yourself like a hawk, being on top of your feelings all the time. Wondering if you'll ever be you again..

Right?

So, please try and find something to distract you.

I started crocheting. It was hard but I kept on doing it till it became a habit.

YouTube videos, short ones. Guided meditations. Anything to just get me through the next few hours.

 

Don't give up on yourself. You're still you, just hidden away for a while.

 

If you can try to accept this is how it will be, for a while..it helps greatly.

See it as part of your journey. As part of the healing a process. You're doing it, you've started a taper. And as you'll go lower and lower you'll feel better. Till eventually you get windows, better periods of the day, then better days altogether. Till you're used to feeling better overall and you'll find yourself where I am now, eventually.

 

It's all in phases . And it'll come and go. But it's very normal to feel like you feel now.

It isn't your mind. It's your brain.

Although mindset will come into play when you get lower, for me, that was the case.

 

Alright. I just wrote you a novel. But I wanted to let you know I can relate and that healing happens .

 

Moo, such a helpful post. It reaches all of us no matter where we are on this path. I needed to hear this message today...thank you!

 

Love to all,

 

Carita

[[Ba...]]

Builder,

 

I will follow the schedule you gave me - some of the other posts are confusing a little now

 

thanks again.

[[bu...]]

Builder,

 

I will follow the schedule you gave me - some of the other posts are confusing a little now

 

thanks again.

  Yup, just follow the schedule.  And if you need more help when you get to 13, let me know.

[[bu...]]

dpier, vodka method baby! Same pill, just dissolved.

 

:thumbsup:

[[Di...]]

Builder,

 

I will follow the schedule you gave me - some of the other posts are confusing a little now

 

thanks again.

 

I hope you aren't referring to my last post. The last thing I want to do is confuse anyone. If I am then I will happily stop posting, because it's more important to me that people understand what they're doing, and I do have other things to do. All I was doing was correcting some misunderstandings about what I did during my taper, and clarifying the method I used.

 

I have always advocated the KISS principle when it comes to tapering, and titrating is very simple. You just need to follow the basic theory and don't get bogged down by unnecessary detail or terminologies. Make a new batch as often as you need to and reduce that batch by a small amount every day.... simple.

[[bu...]]

Builder,

 

I will follow the schedule you gave me - some of the other posts are confusing a little now

 

thanks again.

 

I hope you aren't referring to my last post. The last thing I want to do is confuse anyone. If I am then I will happily stop posting, because it's more important to me that people understand what they're doing, and I do have other things to do. All I was doing was correcting some misunderstandings about what I did during my taper, and clarifying the method I used.

 

I have always advocated the KISS principle when it comes to tapering, and titrating is very simple. You just need to follow the basic theory and don't get bogged down by unnecessary detail or terminologies. Make a new batch as often as you need to and reduce that batch by a small amount every day.... simple.

  Its all good Pam!  You'll always be welcome here! ;)

[[Ki...]]

Moodle,

thank you for very nice explanation. I think I fell asleep yesterday. I take my sleeping pills early because I don't know when they will kick in. Before I started withdrawal they would just put me to sleep right away.

Everything you said is pretty much what I am going through when going through withdrawal.

I wish my family speak English but they don't and there is very little informations in my language

about withdrawing from benzos. The instructions say to cut 0.25mg Klonopin every 3 days after long term use but I found it impossible so I was doing slow tapering always messed up and my parents just

tired and told me no more help and threw me on street so I had no other option than put myself back on pills,get stable and they took me back Well now even going back on pills doesnt really help so

I am in very difficult situation. It's just about time when they will do it again. I tried to explain them that this process has to be done slowly and they told me I have always some excuses. They said cold turkey or no more talking :'( So I had to walk away because I didnt want to kill myself with CT. Yes I would maybe prove them they were wrong if I die or end my life but that's not a solution

I am curious how your families deal with this madness?

I never took drugs,alcohol,smoking. Had a great job and now I have to deal with this madness and it's not fair

[[Ba...]]

Diaz-Pam

 

It's not your posts, please believe me it's all me - I have read so much on daily tapering that it has become a blur - you are helping so many people - I am in a place that I need clarification for everything - specific schedules and explanations - I am in my head way too much.