Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Mo...]]

Moodle,

that's awesome but it's like a hell How can I just get the right speed? :'(

When I have racing thoughts its bad because I cannot talk normal and think normal

but if I am sedated I am soo sedated that I don't even want to talk

 

Akathisia- I have that a lot also. BTW we gave it it's name:

 

The term was coined by the Czech neuropsychiatrist Ladislav Haskovec (1866–1944), who described the phenomenon in 1901.[2][3]

 

I think everything when it comes to benzo is nuts

 

How do the doctors know if someone is bipolar or just in withdrawal from benzos?

 

To be honest, you wouldn't be the first person to be misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder while in withdrawal.

I know of at least 8 people here who got that diagnosis during their taper.

 

It's of my opinion that such a diagnosis can not be made while someone is withdrawing from benzodiazepines. But I'm not s doctor. That's just my two cents on it.

This vile medicine works on everything in our bodies.

 

You're not the only one who can't think straight and feeling racing thoughts and body but sedated at the same time.

I've had it bad for a while. It calmed down and I rarely ever have it now, usually only a little onset before my period. It goes away quickly.

 

Try to do some breathing exercises and or guided meditations if you can. I know it's hard to focus on that but it can be done. Thinking about yourself and your symptoms works opposite.

Distraction seems impossible but it's a way out, I know that.

[[be...]]

Hi builder, Moodle or SG:

 

I already posted this on the micro tapering site. But I want to see what you guys think of it, so thank you!

 

I have a question about my liquid/pill taper off 70 mg of Valium. I think builder earlier on told me that if I want to drop by 5% every 14 days, then I should make a liquid mixture of 1 ml of liquid Valium and 99 ml of water. So if I do this then I believe he said to drop 5%, I would take 69 mg in pill form, and .25 ml in liquid. Next day .5 ml liquid et al. So my concern is that if I only take .25 mg, plus the 69 mg in pills, and leave the rest of the liquid for another day, then wouldn't I be dropping by .75 mg, when I should be dropping by .25 mg? Thank you for your support. Or shouldn't I be drawing out .25 mg of liquid, throw that out, and drink the rest of the liquid. When I first posed this question to builder, his response was no no  no! It would mean I would be wasting my liquid. Sorry folks but I have a bad bout of benzo brain right now and I suspect a bit of health anxiety. Thanks again. 

Bets

 

69+.75

69+.50

69+.25

69

68+.75

68+.50

68+.25

68

67+.75...etc, etc etc.

 

Its really not complicated.

 

No, you don't need to discard any med.  That's a holdover from the milk taper protocol, because milk is perishable.  Your pharma grade liquid V (or vodka mix) can be safely stored, so there is no need to mix a fresh batch each day.

 

Thank you once again, builder.  :smitten: Also, should I but the liquid V which is 5 mg=5ml? Or 1mg=1ml?

[[Ba...]]

Builder,

 

Great that makes total sense to me - how would I dilute the Liquid V and do I need any special equipment to do so or just a syringe?  In my present state of mind it's a bit confusing.  Thanks for all your help.

[[bu...]]

 

 

Thank you once again, builder.  :smitten: Also, should I but the liquid V which is 5 mg=5ml? Or 1mg=1ml?

  5mg=5ml is the same as 1mg=1ml.

[[bu...]]

Builder,

 

Great that makes total sense to me - how would I dilute the Liquid V and do I need any special equipment to do so or just a syringe?  In my present state of mind it's a bit confusing.  Thanks for all your help.

  More later.  I see I still need to correct my original post AND my "corrected" post.  Will give you correct numbers and procedure later.

[[cr...]]

What is KK? Thanks. Cross

[[be...]]

The Konopin Klub, which can be found in this very support section.

[[be...]]

 

 

Thank you once again, builder.  :smitten: Also, should I but the liquid V which is 5 mg=5ml? Or 1mg=1ml?

  5mg=5ml is the same as 1mg=1ml.

 

OK. I just see people buying both..........

[[be...]]

builder: I was just reading DP's methods, and this makes sense to me, tho I would be dropping by a different amount each day. Does this make sense to you? I am guessing that I would be dropping by .25 mg day 1, .5 ml day 2, .75 ml day 3, and so on, and then do the progressive drop.

 

Day 1 – Drink the 100ml solution

Day 2 – Make a new solution and drink 98ml (you can either discard the rest or use it to make up part of your next day’s dose)

Day 3 – Make a new solution and drink 96ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 4 – Make a new solution and drink 94ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 5 – Make a new solution and drink 92ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 6 – Make a new solution and drink 90ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

 

Now this may be benzo brain on my part, plus memory loss. But the way I interpreted your method to me was to take  out .25 ml in a syringe, drink it and leave the rest behind. That would mean to me there is a lot of benzo mixture left. Much more than .25 ml that I am not taking. I would be dropping by far too much. DP's method is the one that made sense to me. To drink the whole mixture but just take out .XX one day, .XX ml the 2nd day, .XX ml the 3rd day and so on.  What would those XX's be to reach 3.5 mg in 14 days?

[[bu...]]

1) Dilute enough liquid V to last 10-14 days

 

2) From that diluted batch, just extract the required amount each day and take it (per the chart I have given you several times

 

3)  When your diluted batch is used up, make another batch to last 10-14 days.

 

There is no need to make a new batch each day, and there is no need to discard any med.  Just take what you  need each day. 

 

I did liquid taper with liquid V for 2 years.  I prepared a diluted batch every 10-14 days.  It took about 5 minutes.  Then I just drew out what I needed each day.  I never discarded any med.

[[bu...]]

Builder,

 

Great that makes total sense to me - how would I dilute the Liquid V and do I need any special equipment to do so or just a syringe?  In my present state of mind it's a bit confusing.  Thanks for all your help.

  OK, here's the correct numbers, and a suggested procedure:

 

13mg tablets plus:

 

.465

.430

.395

.360

.325

.290...etc

 

You'll need a recycled food jar with a gasketed screw top (pickles, salad dressing, olives, etc) for a mix/storage jar.

 

Put 2mg liquid V in the jar and add 198 ml water, stir.  That should be about a 5 day supply.  You now have a 1% solution. (.01mg in each ml).  just multiply the mg in the chart by 100 to get the mls per day.  (move the decimal point 2 places to the right)

 

.465=46.5ml

.430=43  ml

.395=39.5ml...etc

[[cr...]]

Thanks Bets, I tried KK, just too huge for me, I know I missed out on a lot of good stuff there (read some good stuff there too).  I only have 2 weeks of K to go, will never touch another one. Cross

[[be...]]

1) Dilute enough liquid V to last 10-14 days

 

2) From that diluted batch, just extract the required amount each day and take it (per the chart I have given you several times

 

3)  When your diluted batch is used up, make another batch to last 10-14 days.

 

There is no need to make a new batch each day, and there is no need to discard any med.  Just take what you  need each day. 

 

I did liquid taper with liquid V for 2 years.  I prepared a diluted batch every 10-14 days.  It took about 5 minutes.  Then I just drew out what I needed each day.  I never discarded any med.

 

builder: I know you have explained this to me more than a dozen times. Sigh. When you say, just take what you need, how much is  that? I think according to DP (and me), it would be get rid of the .25 ml, and take the rest. If I just took .25 mg in a syringe, that # would be way too low. That would leave me a whole bunch of Valium that I should be taking at the beginning. I want to take everything, but the .25 ml.

[[fr...]]

  Bets,  Don't feel bad, I'm not grasping it either.  My brain is too befuddled right now.  I'm going to ask for liquid V next Dr. visit and try the daily microtaper also.  This cut and hold is getting bad.  I have bad s/x's for too long and take so long to stabilize, if you want to call it that.  I don't understand it either.  I feel so dumb.

[[Ba...]]

Builder,

 

Thank you - just a some questions to help me fully understand

 

1.  No refrigeration - keep jar at room temperature?

 

2.  Can I use a ball Jar - I don't have any jars with rubber gaskets and I can buy a ball jar

 

3. As far as measuring ml - I don't have anything  - what should I buy?

 

4. My liquid V is 5mg=5ml - so is that considered 1 to 1 and I use a 2mg pill?  then dilute with 198ml water?

 

5. again, so sorry but if I'm using 2mg pill and it will last for about 5 days that will give me a reduction of .5 every two weeks?

 

6. Put 2mg liquid V in the jar and add 198 ml water, stir.  That should be about a 5 day supply.  You now have a 1% solution. (.01mg in each ml).  just multiply the mg in the chart by 100 to get the mls per day.  (move the decimal point 2 places to the right)  Because I will be diluting by 198mls I would multiply by 100 or 200 - a little confused. 

 

7. .465=46.5ml

.430=43  ml

.395=39.5ml...etc

 

it seems as if I'm taking a lesser amount each day - I am usually good with math but I am having a little trouble getting it.

 

 

thanks again.

[[Gr...]]

I just started a liquid taper using liquid Valium. I am reducing by .015 mg/day or .40%. So this is a slow taper. The slower the taper the better for many. If you go too fast, there can be withdrawal symptoms.

 

In the U.S. you can get liquid valium. 1 mg = 1 ml. I went to the website at this link to get a spreadsheet: http://benzosupport.org/the_spreadsheet.htm. I entered in my data as if I was using pills for my tapering. I put in that I had come from 5 mg but was now at 3.75; that I was going to take 3 mg in pill form and dissolve 1 mg in 100 ml, and taper by 1 ml of the 100 ml solution each day. I entered, the starting date of my titration and reducing by .015 mg or 1.5 ml a day of the valium/milk solution. (The website says to use water -- but if you're dissolving tablets you need whole milk. You could check with Builder and SG57 for suggested titration plans. I went with what they suggested and plugged this into the spreadsheet.)

 

In the spreadsheet, it calculates how much Valium you are intaking each day. For intance, if I'm starting my titration at 3.75, then the next day I am intaking 3.735, then it goes down like this each day: 3.720, 3.705, 3.690, 3.675, 3.660, etc. Since I have the liquid valium from the pharmacy, I am not dilluting it. I use a 10 ml and 1 ml solution and take the intake amount listed on the spreadsheet. So, I'm into day two of my tapering, and I took 3.74 (eye-balling it on the 1 ml syringe), and then yesterday 3.72. So far it's probably too early to tell, but I don't have anxiety or depression. I have had tingling in my legs for weeks after cutting too quickly by splitting pills and not learning about liquid titration from Benzo Buddies. Thankfully I learned about liquid tapering from this forum.

 

I highly recommend getting help on the liquid titration forum for a tapering schedule (you can make your own mixture with whole milk if you can't get liquid valium). To me this is a way to slowly and more accurately taper. I showed my doctor the spreadsheet and he was pretty impressed. He had not heard of liquid tapering before but he said it made perfect sense. Thank you Builder, SG57, Diaz-Pam for your advice on setting up a liquid taper schedule. I took what you gave me and then adapted it with the spreadsheet. Now I feel that I have a easy-to-understand plan.

 

I hope that helps.

 

[[Fa...]]

    Just wanted an opinion, my last cut of valium was 5mg,and symptoms became awful ,and now have horrible depression and crying all day for no reason.So the mental health team came to visit ,and said they would back me up with my G.P for doing the slowest taper possible ,which will be 2mg per fortnight.Anyway that would mean my taper would be over a year,but what I'm scared of is having the depression every day for a year or more.Do u think going slower will help the depression?.

  So Bets if I do it ,looks like u &I will be posting on here forever!

  Also nightmares.Since dropping the valium ,I'm waking up three or four times a night remembering my nightmares.Is this normal!!

In fact the other night my husband woke me up because I was sobbing in my sleep.You'll never guess what about_ my mother_in_law shouting at me telling me I was causing the family stress!!.

[[be...]]

  Bets,  Don't feel bad, I'm not grasping it either.  My brain is too befuddled right now.  I'm going to ask for liquid V next Dr. visit and try the daily microtaper also.  This cut and hold is getting bad.  I have bad s/x's for too long and take so long to stabilize, if you want to call it that.  I don't understand it either.  I feel so dumb.

 

free:

 

I'm glad I have another club member. Just let me know what I am doing wrong. :'(

[[be...]]

  Bets,  Don't feel bad, I'm not grasping it either.  My brain is too befuddled right now.  I'm going to ask for liquid V next Dr. visit and try the daily microtaper also.  This cut and hold is getting bad.  I have bad s/x's for too long and take so long to stabilize, if you want to call it that.  I don't understand it either.  I feel so dumb.

 

free:

 

I forgot. Your insurance Co might have to have your doctor preauthorize it first.....

[[bu...]]

1) Dilute enough liquid V to last 10-14 days

 

2) From that diluted batch, just extract the required amount each day and take it (per the chart I have given you several times

 

3)  When your diluted batch is used up, make another batch to last 10-14 days.

 

There is no need to make a new batch each day, and there is no need to discard any med.  Just take what you  need each day. 

 

I did liquid taper with liquid V for 2 years.  I prepared a diluted batch every 10-14 days.  It took about 5 minutes.  Then I just drew out what I needed each day.  I never discarded any med.

 

builder: I know you have explained this to me more than a dozen times. Sigh. When you say, just take what you need, how much is  that? I think according to DP (and me), it would be get rid of the .25 ml, and take the rest. If I just took .25 mg in a syringe, that # would be way too low. That would leave me a whole bunch of Valium that I should be taking at the beginning. I want to take everything, but the .25 ml.

 

"how much..."  The amount I have showed you in the chart...the highlighted numbers are the liquid portion.  You're taking part of your dose in tablets,  and part of it with  liquid.  And by reducing the liquid portion each day, you are reducing the total dose each day.

 

69+.75

69+.50

69+.25

69

68+.75

68+.50

68+.25

68

67+.75 

 

I didn't tell you to "... just take .25 mg in a syringe..."  I told you to take 69mg from tablets and .75mg with  liquid

 

Look at the chart.  Day 1 you take 69mg from tablets, and .75 with liquid.  Thats a total dose of 69.75, or a reduction of .25 from you original 70mg.  And if you look at the chart, you will see 1) your liquid portion goes down .25 each day and  2) your total dose goes down .25 each day,

 

You will have you med available in 2 different forms, tablets and liquid.  And you will take most of your dose from tablets, and the rest from liquid.  You would't take all your pill each day, so why do you think you need to take all of your liquid each day?  Just like you have a supply of tablets that you draw from each day, you will have a supply of liquid to draw from each day.  The different supplys (tablets and liquid) are the source of your daily dose.

 

Its like having 10mg pills in one jar, and 2 mg pills in the other jar. Just as an example, assume you wanted to cut 2mg/day (70-68-66-64, etc).  You could take 6 10mg tablets and the rest in 2 mg tablets-8mg,then 6mg, then 4mg, etc.  You would be taking part of your dose from the "10mg jar", and the rest of your dose from the "2mg jar".  This is all we're doing with tablets and lqiuid, just taking our med from 2 different "jars".

 

 

 

But if you really want to make a fresh batch each day, and then throw part of it away each day, then go for it.  But it makes a lot more sense to me to just spend 5 minutes once every week-10 days preparing a dilute batch, then  just drawing the needed amount each day.  Go to the "tablet jar" and take part of your dose, and the "liquid jar" to get the rest.

 

Unlike milk, liquid V is not perishable.  You can keep a supply on hand.  You do not have to make a fresh batch each day and discard the  unused portion.

[[be...]]

Ok builder:

 

I found your earlier posts to me. I can't find your original posts so I can't copy and paste them. I will just type it in.

 

drop by 5%=cut by 3.5 mg down to 66.6 mg, then cut every two weeks until you reach 10 mg.

 

Eating 70 mg to start..then

 

2 weeks later take 66.6 (ml or mg or are they the same?)

Then 63.3

60.1

57.1

54.9

52.1

49.5

47.0

44.7 etc.

 

For example, you say to cut to 66.6 the first 14 days. That equals 3.5 mg, like you said, so that make sense to me. This is about a 5% cut every 14 days. So doing the math on my own, that would be a .25 mg the first day. So the first day, to me, it seems like I should be taking out .25 mg the first day .5 mg the 2nd day, .75 the 3rd day etc. And the 69 mg in pill form. To me, in order to cut by this amount, I would have to take out those mgs, throw that amount out, and drink the rest of the solution. If I just drink the .25 from the syringe and the liquid is diluted with a 99:1 ratio, then I would be taking out virtually nothing the 100 ml of the drug. To me, taking and drinking .25 mg with such a diluted ratio means I would be dropping by nearly 1 mg each day. And do mg equal the same as ml? And I add in 1 mg of the liquid right? And then add in 99 ml of water? I'm sooo confused................. :'(

[[bu...]]

Builder,

 

Thank you - just a some questions to help me fully understand

 

1.  No refrigeration - keep jar at room temperature? 

 

Yes, store at room temp, no refrigeration.  The specific mfgr's instruction is "Store at 77F. Excursions permitted to 59 to 86F."

 

2.  Can I use a ball Jar - I don't have any jars with rubber gaskets and I can buy a ball jar 

Yes, you can use a Ball jar.  But any salvaged food container, (olives, pickles, salad dressing, etc will work fine.

 

3. As far as measuring ml - I don't have anything  - what should I buy? 

 

You will need a 1ml and a 10ml oral syringe.  They are usually free at most pharmacies, but also available from Amazon.  A graduated cylinder can be helpful, but is not required. (also available from Amazon)

4. My liquid V is 5mg=5ml - so is that considered 1 to 1 and I use a 2mg pill?  then dilute with 198ml water? 

 

Yes, 5mg=5ml is exacly the same as 1mg=1ml.  But just to be clear, you are NOT going to dissolve your tablets.  You will continue to take most of your dose dry, from tablets, and just the "cut" portion from the liquid.  Using the numbers I gave you, you wull start out taking 6 2mg tablets and a half  of a 2mg tablet for a total of 13mg by tablet, then your liquid to make your total daily dose.

5. again, so sorry but if I'm using 2mg pill and it will last for about 5 days that will give me a reduction of .5 every two weeks?

 

Again, you will be taking 13mg by tablet (until you get down below 13mg) and the rest from liquid. The 200ml of dilute liquid V will be about a 5 day supply, using the doses I gave you.  That has nothing to do with "pills".  Yes, a daily reduction or .035/day will give you a .5mg reduction everry 14 days (Actually, 5X.035=.49...close enough!)

 

 

6. Put 2mg liquid V in the jar and add 198 ml water, stir.  That should be about a 5 day supply.  You now have a 1% solution. (.01mg in each ml).  just multiply the mg in the chart by 100 to get the mls per day.  (move the decimal point 2 places to the right)  Because I will be diluting by 198mls I would multiply by 100 or 200 - a little confused. 

 

2ml + 198ml = 200 ml.  So you have 2mg in 200ml, or 1mg in each 100 ml. You still multiply by 100.  Only the ratio matters...it does't make any difference what the total volume is

7. .465=46.5ml

.430=43  ml

.395=39.5ml...etc

 

it seems as if I'm taking a lesser amount each day - I am usually good with math but I am having a little trouble getting it.

 

Of course you are.  Isn't that what you want to do?  We're cutting your dose a little bit each day, that's why its called tapering!

thanks again.

[[bu...]]

Ok builder:

 

I found your earlier posts to me. I can't find your original posts so I can't copy and paste them. I will just type it in.

 

drop by 5%=cut by 3.5 mg down to 66.6 mg, then cut every two weeks until you reach 10 mg.

 

Eating 70 mg to start..then

 

2 weeks later take 66.6 (ml or mg or are they the same?)

Then 63.3

60.1

57.1

54.9

52.1

49.5

47.0

44.7 etc.

 

For example, you say to cut to 66.6 the first 14 days. That equals 3.5 mg, like you said, so that make sense to me. This is about a 5% cut every 14 days. So doing the math on my own, that would be a .25 mg the first day. So the first day, to me, it seems like I should be taking out .25 mg the first day .5 mg the 2nd day, .75 the 3rd day etc. And the 69 mg in pill form. To me, in order to cut by this amount, I would have to take out those mgs, throw that amount out, and drink the rest of the solution. If I just drink the .25 from the syringe and the liquid is diluted with a 99:1 ratio, then I would be taking out virtually nothing the 100 ml of the drug. To me, taking and drinking .25 mg with such a diluted ratio means I would be dropping by nearly 1 mg each day. And do mg equal the same as ml? And I add in 1 mg of the liquid right? And then add in 99 ml of water? I'm sooo confused................. :'(

 

 

One more time...just look t the chart.  You will be taking .25mg less each day (".25mg daily cut rate")  And that means in 14 days you will have cut 3.5mg (.25x14=3.54) or 5% (3.5/70=.05) 

 

And forget "...take out"! You don't "take out" anything.  This is not a milk taper, and you don't make a fresh batch each day.  You take most of your dose from tablets, and ADD some liquid to make your total dose.  And you will ADD LESS liquid each day...that's w how you make your daily cuts. 

 

Look at the chart  Day 1 you take 69mg from tablets and .75mg from liquid  That's a total dose of 69.75.  Day 2 you take 69mg from tablets, and .5mg from liquid.  That's a total dose of 69.5mg, or .25 less than day 1.

 

And at your dose (70mg) and taper rate (.25mg/day) you don't even need to dilute.  You can measure out .75, .5, and .25 on  a 1ml syringe just fine.  Just take 69mg from tablets, and take .75ml/mg from your full strength Rx liquid.  Then day2, take 69 mg tablets and take .5ml/mg from your full strength liquid. 

 

Obviously, you won't throw away the rest of the bottle after you take your dose.  

 

IMO, at any level/dose, dilution increases accuracy, makes measurement easier, and helps with consistency.  But dilution obviously causes you some confusion.  And at your dose and doing .25 daily cuts, it really is not necessary.  So if it makes thing simpler, just use your Rx liquid (1ml=1mg) full strength.  Pretend that your liquid is a bottle of .25mg pills. 

 

 

[[Ki...]]

I just wanted to say Hello  I am still alive

[[jj...]]

    Just wanted an opinion, my last cut of valium was 5mg,and symptoms became awful ,and now have horrible depression and crying all day for no reason.So the mental health team came to visit ,and said they would back me up with my G.P for doing the slowest taper possible ,which will be 2mg per fortnight.Anyway that would mean my taper would be over a year,but what I'm scared of is having the depression every day for a year or more.Do u think going slower will help the depression?.

  So Bets if I do it ,looks like u &I will be posting on here forever!

  Also nightmares.Since dropping the valium ,I'm waking up three or four times a night remembering my nightmares.Is this normal!!

In fact the other night my husband woke me up because I was sobbing in my sleep.You'll never guess what about_ my mother_in_law shouting at me telling me I was causing the family stress!!.

 

fairport, 2mg every two weeks is not the slowest taper, the slowest taper is however slow you choose to go. I tapered 12mg over 17 months for example and even that was pretty quick compared to some others. Don't think that you have to follow some rigid schedule, it's better to cut slower and feel better than spending months or even years in severe withdrawal.