Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[ar...]]

Some good news and I hope this lasts.  My head fog is lifting and my wife has mentioned  that my silliness is coming back.  It's very subtle but it seems like I can see things more clearly.  Like I can see in HD now.  Hard to explain but it's like I'm more aware.

 

This could be just a nice window but I am enjoying it either way.

[[Sh...]]

Question for Anyone

 

Been doing good cutting and am down to 1.1 mg from 15 mg last August 2014.

 

Today i got slammed this afternoon. This is as bad as when i was on Lorazepam before crossover... DP/DR tinnitus visual issues etc.

I have not been close to this bad in months.

 

I mean at one time i was cutting 1-2 mg a week and then 1 mg...then .05 mg and then .025...and a month ago i  went to .0125 while at a seminar for 3 weeks in AZ.

At the end of it i felt great and i thought i was in the clear for the last of the journey. When i got home  2 weeks ago i cut .025 mg and it was a little rough but i made it. Then thursday i cut another .021 -actually  3 doses a day of .33 mg ( my pills weigh .180 for 2 mg)

 

I cut from .040 to .033 over a week....so monday it might be .040 and by friday it is .035  3 x a day...so i am probably at .036 mg 3 x per day

 

I was doing good this am but slept a bit in PM and when i woke up it started coming on strong and has not let up....horrible WD's

been getting shakes again in AM too.

 

My mind is having a hard time believing i am at this point of WD's SXS with this little amount of a cut comparatively.

 

I know it gets more about percentages at this point but still how can so little drop cause such radical effects?

 

I am cutting dry and putting it under my tongue to dissolve every dose.

 

Could use some words' links or reminders of how this goes or even advice. At this point i dont remember anything i have learned over the last 2 years when in this place

 

Thanks for any help!

 

Shasta

[[or...]]

Some good news and I hope this lasts.  My head fog is lifting and my wife has mentioned  that my silliness is coming back.  It's very subtle but it seems like I can see things more clearly.  Like I can see in HD now.  Hard to explain but it's like I'm more aware.

 

This could be just a nice window but I am enjoying it either way.

 

Yup, enjoy it arcade, May it last!! I loved the part about your silliness coming back.

[[jj...]]

Question for Anyone

 

Been doing good cutting and am down to 1.1 mg from 15 mg last August 2014.

 

Today i got slammed this afternoon. This is as bad as when i was on Lorazepam before crossover... DP/DR tinnitus visual issues etc.

I have not been close to this bad in months.

 

I mean at one time i was cutting 1-2 mg a week and then 1 mg...then .05 mg and then .025...and a month ago i  went to .0125 while at a seminar for 3 weeks in AZ.

At the end of it i felt great and i thought i was in the clear for the last of the journey. When i got home  2 weeks ago i cut .025 mg and it was a little rough but i made it. Then thursday i cut another .021 -actually  3 doses a day of .33 mg ( my pills weigh .180 for 2 mg)

 

I cut from .040 to .033 over a week....so monday it might be .040 and by friday it is .035  3 x a day...so i am probably at .036 mg 3 x per day

 

I was doing good this am but slept a bit in PM and when i woke up it started coming on strong and has not let up....horrible WD's

been getting shakes again in AM too.

 

My mind is having a hard time believing i am at this point of WD's SXS with this little amount of a cut comparatively.

 

I know it gets more about percentages at this point but still how can so little drop cause such radical effects?

 

I am cutting dry and putting it under my tongue to dissolve every dose.

 

Could use some words' links or reminders of how this goes or even advice. At this point i dont remember anything i have learned over the last 2 years when in this place

 

Thanks for any help!

 

Shasta

 

Hi Shasta,

 

Yuck, sorry to hear that you are getting hit. Were it me I'd probably back up a little, maybe to 1.5mg, switch over to a liquid taper so as to have more control over the consistency of the cuts and do a long hold, probably 2 to 4 weeks. Something like that is probably going to be what it would take if the goal is to stabilize as much as possible for doing the last mg. Regardless of whether or not you do a dose correction, I think that you will need to do a longer hold. Even if you make smaller cuts, the more you cut while you are feeling bad, the worse it's probably going to get. You are still on a high enough dose though that you should be able to right the ship.

[[Sh...]]

jjrosk

 

Thanks!

 

Not sure how much worse it gets than this.

 

Really not an option to go back up for me know...i have worked too hard from 1.5 to here. I will hold for a bit to play catch up.

Was hoping to be off by end of september but this puts me back a month....crap!

 

So maybe i will try this liquid method. Can you please point me in a direction to a link on best how to do it with 2 mg pills and how to make sure i have a consistent dose?

 

Thanks so much!

 

PS Congrats on your recent freedom from the devil's drug. How are you doing?

[[jj...]]

jjrosk

 

Thanks!

 

Not sure how much worse it gets than this.

 

Really not an option to go back up for me know...i have worked too hard from 1.5 to here. I will hold for a bit to play catch up.

Was hoping to be off by end of september but this puts me back a month....crap!

 

So maybe i will try this liquid method. Can you please point me in a direction to a link on best how to do it with 2 mg pills and how to make sure i have a consistent dose?

 

Thanks so much!

 

PS Congrats on your recent freedom from the devil's drug. How are you doing?

 

Best method aside from pharm liquid v is probably the vodka route. You can find it above on okaz's sig line. It's really easy to do and she has had great success with it.

 

Thanks for the congrats, the last little bit was a bit rough but I'm off, still working and most important, not in acute withdrawal. Some of this stuff takes a while to heal so I'm trying to be patient. We'll all get there sooner or later

[[Lo...]]

What if you feel like crap on any dose? Just keep microtapering?

[[Mo...]]

Some good news and I hope this lasts.  My head fog is lifting and my wife has mentioned  that my silliness is coming back.  It's very subtle but it seems like I can see things more clearly.  Like I can see in HD now.  Hard to explain but it's like I'm more aware.

 

This could be just a nice window but I am enjoying it either way.

 

That's great news, Arcade!

Even if it's just a window, it seems like it feels different, which is good .

This is how it started for me, when I started doing better overall: silliness coming back. Sounds like your baseline is improving, to me!

[[Mo...]]

jjrosk

 

Thanks!

 

Not sure how much worse it gets than this.

 

Really not an option to go back up for me know...i have worked too hard from 1.5 to here. I will hold for a bit to play catch up.

Was hoping to be off by end of september but this puts me back a month....crap!

 

So maybe i will try this liquid method. Can you please point me in a direction to a link on best how to do it with 2 mg pills and how to make sure i have a consistent dose?

 

Thanks so much!

 

PS Congrats on your recent freedom from the devil's drug. How are you doing?

 

Hey Shasta,

If it were me, I'd hold for a good while. The Valium cutting can definitely catch up with you.

My roughest time was around 3.75 and then after that a bit more okay again till 1.5

I know it all gets old but from there on out, I cut smaller and held more. It helps.

 

I agree with JJ on the liquid.

 

There are many ways to do this. If you could get your prescriber to get you liquid Valium, that would be so eay.

If not, try out the following links on how to:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=110496.0

( more in detail vodka method)

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=110496.0

(Vodka method )

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97511.msg1248599#msg1248599

( milk and liquid Valium method )

[[Mo...]]

What if you feel like crap on any dose? Just keep microtapering?

 

Hello, welcome to the thread.

Are you tapering Ativan first? Or Valium and Ativan at the same time ?

[[be...]]

Hi LF: Glad to see you here. Some people hold for more days, like me, to feel fewer symptoms. Others just ride it out. But I think holding is the way to go.

 

Arcade: So glad to see you are doing well. Like Moo said, maybe your baseline has improved. I hope you can keep seeing in HD.

 

Noodle my friend: How goes it for you today?

 

Same kittensick: Are you feeling any better? How's the Valium working out for you now?

 

((((Tex?)))))

[[...]]

Question for Anyone

 

Been doing good cutting and am down to 1.1 mg from 15 mg last August 2014.

 

Today i got slammed this afternoon. This is as bad as when i was on Lorazepam before crossover... DP/DR tinnitus visual issues etc.

I have not been close to this bad in months.

 

I mean at one time i was cutting 1-2 mg a week and then 1 mg...then .05 mg and then .025...and a month ago i  went to .0125 while at a seminar for 3 weeks in AZ.

At the end of it i felt great and i thought i was in the clear for the last of the journey. When i got home  2 weeks ago i cut .025 mg and it was a little rough but i made it. Then thursday i cut another .021 -actually  3 doses a day of .33 mg ( my pills weigh .180 for 2 mg)

 

I cut from .040 to .033 over a week....so monday it might be .040 and by friday it is .035  3 x a day...so i am probably at .036 mg 3 x per day

 

I was doing good this am but slept a bit in PM and when i woke up it started coming on strong and has not let up....horrible WD's

been getting shakes again in AM too.

 

My mind is having a hard time believing i am at this point of WD's SXS with this little amount of a cut comparatively.

 

I know it gets more about percentages at this point but still how can so little drop cause such radical effects?

 

I am cutting dry and putting it under my tongue to dissolve every dose.

 

Could use some words' links or reminders of how this goes or even advice. At this point i dont remember anything i have learned over the last 2 years when in this place

 

Thanks for any help!

 

Shasta

 

Hi Shasta,

 

Yuck, sorry to hear that you are getting hit. Were it me I'd probably back up a little, maybe to 1.5mg, switch over to a liquid taper so as to have more control over the consistency of the cuts and do a long hold, probably 2 to 4 weeks. Something like that is probably going to be what it would take if the goal is to stabilize as much as possible for doing the last mg. Regardless of whether or not you do a dose correction, I think that you will need to do a longer hold. Even if you make smaller cuts, the more you cut while you are feeling bad, the worse it's probably going to get. You are still on a high enough dose though that you should be able to right the ship.

 

I agree with what JJ said.  If symptoms are on the rise I would not push through.

 

In answer to your question about how such a small cut can cause so much havoc, we have some insight into that.  What matters is the percentage of receptors that are exposed (required to work without the drug) when a cut is made.  So how are dose and receptor occupancy related?  For all psych drugs, including benzos, dose and receptor occupancy are related like the curves in these pictures that I came across on SA.org...

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/f3h1ao5ijfj93/papers#0yp2c8pbjrziaab

 

The first thing that jumps out is those are not straight lines.   Very very bent.  We can see very clearly from this that at high doses a big cut exposes the same amount of receptors as a very small cut at low doses.  This means a very small cut at a low dose creates the same effect (exposes the same amount of receptors) as a much bigger cut at higher doses.  To me this explains why we have to go slower and slower.

[[ca...]]

Question for Anyone

 

Been doing good cutting and am down to 1.1 mg from 15 mg last August 2014.

 

Today i got slammed this afternoon. This is as bad as when i was on Lorazepam before crossover... DP/DR tinnitus visual issues etc.

I have not been close to this bad in months.

 

I mean at one time i was cutting 1-2 mg a week and then 1 mg...then .05 mg and then .025...and a month ago i  went to .0125 while at a seminar for 3 weeks in AZ.

At the end of it i felt great and i thought i was in the clear for the last of the journey. When i got home  2 weeks ago i cut .025 mg and it was a little rough but i made it. Then thursday i cut another .021 -actually  3 doses a day of .33 mg ( my pills weigh .180 for 2 mg)

 

I cut from .040 to .033 over a week....so monday it might be .040 and by friday it is .035  3 x a day...so i am probably at .036 mg 3 x per day

 

I was doing good this am but slept a bit in PM and when i woke up it started coming on strong and has not let up....horrible WD's

been getting shakes again in AM too.

 

My mind is having a hard time believing i am at this point of WD's SXS with this little amount of a cut comparatively.

 

I know it gets more about percentages at this point but still how can so little drop cause such radical effects?

 

I am cutting dry and putting it under my tongue to dissolve every dose.

 

Could use some words' links or reminders of how this goes or even advice. At this point i dont remember anything i have learned over the last 2 years when in this place

 

Thanks for any help!

 

Shasta

 

Hi Shasta,

 

Yuck, sorry to hear that you are getting hit. Were it me I'd probably back up a little, maybe to 1.5mg, switch over to a liquid taper so as to have more control over the consistency of the cuts and do a long hold, probably 2 to 4 weeks. Something like that is probably going to be what it would take if the goal is to stabilize as much as possible for doing the last mg. Regardless of whether or not you do a dose correction, I think that you will need to do a longer hold. Even if you make smaller cuts, the more you cut while you are feeling bad, the worse it's probably going to get. You are still on a high enough dose though that you should be able to right the ship.

 

I agree with what JJ said.  If symptoms are on the rise I would not push through.

 

In answer to your question about how such a small cut can cause so much havoc, we have some insight into that.  What matters is the percentage of receptors that are exposed (required to work without the drug) when a cut is made.  So how are dose and receptor occupancy related?  For all psych drugs, including benzos, dose and receptor occupancy are related like the curves in these pictures that I came across on SA.org...

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/f3h1ao5ijfj93/papers#0yp2c8pbjrziaab

 

The first thing that jumps out is those are not straight lines.   Very very bent.  We can see very clearly from this that at high doses a big cut exposes the same amount of receptors as a very small cut at low doses.  This means a very small cut at a low dose creates the same effect (exposes the same amount of receptors) as a much bigger cut at higher doses.  To me this explains why we have to go slower and slower.

SG57, I hope all is going ok i find this very interesting and can totally relate to this would you mind if i copy and pasted this info over to the klonopin club i think it would be great info for alot and thanks a bunch for sharing !~CD

[[ar...]]

Some good news and I hope this lasts.  My head fog is lifting and my wife has mentioned  that my silliness is coming back.  It's very subtle but it seems like I can see things more clearly.  Like I can see in HD now.  Hard to explain but it's like I'm more aware.

 

This could be just a nice window but I am enjoying it either way.

 

That's great news, Arcade!

Even if it's just a window, it seems like it feels different, which is good .

This is how it started for me, when I started doing better overall: silliness coming back. Sounds like your baseline is improving, to me!

 

I haven't seen the word "baseline" used.  I keep a daily log of my symptoms and doses.  Do people usually measure baseline by percentage?

 

I have decided to slow down my cuts to .01ml a day.

[[Mo...]]

Some good news and I hope this lasts.  My head fog is lifting and my wife has mentioned  that my silliness is coming back.  It's very subtle but it seems like I can see things more clearly.  Like I can see in HD now.  Hard to explain but it's like I'm more aware.

 

This could be just a nice window but I am enjoying it either way.

 

That's great news, Arcade!

Even if it's just a window, it seems like it feels different, which is good .

This is how it started for me, when I started doing better overall: silliness coming back. Sounds like your baseline is improving, to me!

 

I haven't seen the word "baseline" used.  I keep a daily log of my symptoms and doses.  Do people usually measure baseline by percentage?

 

I have decided to slow down my cuts to .01ml a day.

 

Well, no.. It's more what level of " better" you return to each time.

I mean, usually most people feel kind of crappy in the background even in a good day. And then a wave is just the worst days ..

Baseline for me, is the usual feeling, without any rev ups.

So, when your overall feeling is better in general, that's an improved baseline. If this makes sense.

[[Ki...]]

benzogirl,

I was freaking out yesterday about the 2.5mg cut so I just took it anyway

How does it work? Well it works! I sleep like dead 12 hours,waking up another 3 hours and the rest of the day I cannot wait to go to sleep

Where is my life?

I want to go out to do something!! Go dancing or whatever! Where is my life? :'(

[[...]]

Question for Anyone

 

Been doing good cutting and am down to 1.1 mg from 15 mg last August 2014.

 

Today i got slammed this afternoon. This is as bad as when i was on Lorazepam before crossover... DP/DR tinnitus visual issues etc.

I have not been close to this bad in months.

 

I mean at one time i was cutting 1-2 mg a week and then 1 mg...then .05 mg and then .025...and a month ago i  went to .0125 while at a seminar for 3 weeks in AZ.

At the end of it i felt great and i thought i was in the clear for the last of the journey. When i got home  2 weeks ago i cut .025 mg and it was a little rough but i made it. Then thursday i cut another .021 -actually  3 doses a day of .33 mg ( my pills weigh .180 for 2 mg)

 

I cut from .040 to .033 over a week....so monday it might be .040 and by friday it is .035  3 x a day...so i am probably at .036 mg 3 x per day

 

I was doing good this am but slept a bit in PM and when i woke up it started coming on strong and has not let up....horrible WD's

been getting shakes again in AM too.

 

My mind is having a hard time believing i am at this point of WD's SXS with this little amount of a cut comparatively.

 

I know it gets more about percentages at this point but still how can so little drop cause such radical effects?

 

I am cutting dry and putting it under my tongue to dissolve every dose.

 

Could use some words' links or reminders of how this goes or even advice. At this point i dont remember anything i have learned over the last 2 years when in this place

 

Thanks for any help!

 

Shasta

 

Hi Shasta,

 

Yuck, sorry to hear that you are getting hit. Were it me I'd probably back up a little, maybe to 1.5mg, switch over to a liquid taper so as to have more control over the consistency of the cuts and do a long hold, probably 2 to 4 weeks. Something like that is probably going to be what it would take if the goal is to stabilize as much as possible for doing the last mg. Regardless of whether or not you do a dose correction, I think that you will need to do a longer hold. Even if you make smaller cuts, the more you cut while you are feeling bad, the worse it's probably going to get. You are still on a high enough dose though that you should be able to right the ship.

 

I agree with what JJ said.  If symptoms are on the rise I would not push through.

 

In answer to your question about how such a small cut can cause so much havoc, we have some insight into that.  What matters is the percentage of receptors that are exposed (required to work without the drug) when a cut is made.  So how are dose and receptor occupancy related?  For all psych drugs, including benzos, dose and receptor occupancy are related like the curves in these pictures that I came across on SA.org...

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/f3h1ao5ijfj93/papers#0yp2c8pbjrziaab

 

The first thing that jumps out is those are not straight lines.   Very very bent.  We can see very clearly from this that at high doses a big cut exposes the same amount of receptors as a very small cut at low doses.  This means a very small cut at a low dose creates the same effect (exposes the same amount of receptors) as a much bigger cut at higher doses.  To me this explains why we have to go slower and slower.

SG57, I hope all is going ok i find this very interesting and can totally relate to this would you mind if i copy and pasted this info over to the klonopin club i think it would be great info for alot and thanks a bunch for sharing !~CD

 

Sure, no problem CD.  I've actually looked into it a little deeper too.  If you are interested let me know.

[[ar...]]

Some good news and I hope this lasts.  My head fog is lifting and my wife has mentioned  that my silliness is coming back.  It's very subtle but it seems like I can see things more clearly.  Like I can see in HD now.  Hard to explain but it's like I'm more aware.

 

This could be just a nice window but I am enjoying it either way.

 

That's great news, Arcade!

Even if it's just a window, it seems like it feels different, which is good .

This is how it started for me, when I started doing better overall: silliness coming back. Sounds like your baseline is improving, to me!

 

I haven't seen the word "baseline" used.  I keep a daily log of my symptoms and doses.  Do people usually measure baseline by percentage?

 

I have decided to slow down my cuts to .01ml a day.

 

Well, no.. It's more what level of " better" you return to each time.

I mean, usually most people feel kind of crappy in the background even in a good day. And then a wave is just the worst days ..

Baseline for me, is the usual feeling, without any rev ups.

So, when your overall feeling is better in general, that's an improved baseline. If this makes sense.

 

Thanks Moodle.  It does make sense.  Yes, I'm feeling better overall.  Yes I do still feel like crap in the back ground but I am improving.  When a wave hits, I hold.

[[ca...]]

Question for Anyone

 

Been doing good cutting and am down to 1.1 mg from 15 mg last August 2014.

 

Today i got slammed this afternoon. This is as bad as when i was on Lorazepam before crossover... DP/DR tinnitus visual issues etc.

I have not been close to this bad in months.

 

I mean at one time i was cutting 1-2 mg a week and then 1 mg...then .05 mg and then .025...and a month ago i  went to .0125 while at a seminar for 3 weeks in AZ.

At the end of it i felt great and i thought i was in the clear for the last of the journey. When i got home  2 weeks ago i cut .025 mg and it was a little rough but i made it. Then thursday i cut another .021 -actually  3 doses a day of .33 mg ( my pills weigh .180 for 2 mg)

 

I cut from .040 to .033 over a week....so monday it might be .040 and by friday it is .035  3 x a day...so i am probably at .036 mg 3 x per day

 

I was doing good this am but slept a bit in PM and when i woke up it started coming on strong and has not let up....horrible WD's

been getting shakes again in AM too.

 

My mind is having a hard time believing i am at this point of WD's SXS with this little amount of a cut comparatively.

 

I know it gets more about percentages at this point but still how can so little drop cause such radical effects?

 

I am cutting dry and putting it under my tongue to dissolve every dose.

 

Could use some words' links or reminders of how this goes or even advice. At this point i dont remember anything i have learned over the last 2 years when in this place

 

Thanks for any help!

 

Shasta

 

Hi Shasta,

 

Yuck, sorry to hear that you are getting hit. Were it me I'd probably back up a little, maybe to 1.5mg, switch over to a liquid taper so as to have more control over the consistency of the cuts and do a long hold, probably 2 to 4 weeks. Something like that is probably going to be what it would take if the goal is to stabilize as much as possible for doing the last mg. Regardless of whether or not you do a dose correction, I think that you will need to do a longer hold. Even if you make smaller cuts, the more you cut while you are feeling bad, the worse it's probably going to get. You are still on a high enough dose though that you should be able to right the ship.

 

I agree with what JJ said.  If symptoms are on the rise I would not push through.

 

In answer to your question about how such a small cut can cause so much havoc, we have some insight into that.  What matters is the percentage of receptors that are exposed (required to work without the drug) when a cut is made.  So how are dose and receptor occupancy related?  For all psych drugs, including benzos, dose and receptor occupancy are related like the curves in these pictures that I came across on SA.org...

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/f3h1ao5ijfj93/papers#0yp2c8pbjrziaab

 

The first thing that jumps out is those are not straight lines.   Very very bent.  We can see very clearly from this that at high doses a big cut exposes the same amount of receptors as a very small cut at low doses.  This means a very small cut at a low dose creates the same effect (exposes the same amount of receptors) as a much bigger cut at higher doses.  To me this explains why we have to go slower and slower.

SG57, I hope all is going ok i find this very interesting and can totally relate to this would you mind if i copy and pasted this info over to the klonopin club i think it would be great info for alot and thanks a bunch for sharing !~CD

 

Sure, no problem CD.  I've actually looked into it a little deeper too.  If you are interested let me know.

SG, Thanks and very interested as i must say take a look at what i was on dose wise this last.4 of k is brutal even with the valium! Again thank you!

[[ar...]]

The flu season is coming in a few months.  Are there any opinions or facts about getting a flu shot while withdrawing from a benzo?

[[or...]]

arcade I have gotten a flu shot every year with no rev up of s/x at all. And I didn't get the flu either . . . 

[[Mo...]]

arcade I have gotten a flu shot every year with no rev up of s/x at all. And I didn't get the flu either . . . 

 

Same here...

 

Morning, Katz...

[[or...]]

Hiya Moo.  :smitten:

[[jj...]]

Question for Anyone

 

Been doing good cutting and am down to 1.1 mg from 15 mg last August 2014.

 

Today i got slammed this afternoon. This is as bad as when i was on Lorazepam before crossover... DP/DR tinnitus visual issues etc.

I have not been close to this bad in months.

 

I mean at one time i was cutting 1-2 mg a week and then 1 mg...then .05 mg and then .025...and a month ago i  went to .0125 while at a seminar for 3 weeks in AZ.

At the end of it i felt great and i thought i was in the clear for the last of the journey. When i got home  2 weeks ago i cut .025 mg and it was a little rough but i made it. Then thursday i cut another .021 -actually  3 doses a day of .33 mg ( my pills weigh .180 for 2 mg)

 

I cut from .040 to .033 over a week....so monday it might be .040 and by friday it is .035  3 x a day...so i am probably at .036 mg 3 x per day

 

I was doing good this am but slept a bit in PM and when i woke up it started coming on strong and has not let up....horrible WD's

been getting shakes again in AM too.

 

My mind is having a hard time believing i am at this point of WD's SXS with this little amount of a cut comparatively.

 

I know it gets more about percentages at this point but still how can so little drop cause such radical effects?

 

I am cutting dry and putting it under my tongue to dissolve every dose.

 

Could use some words' links or reminders of how this goes or even advice. At this point i dont remember anything i have learned over the last 2 years when in this place

 

Thanks for any help!

 

Shasta

 

Hi Shasta,

 

Yuck, sorry to hear that you are getting hit. Were it me I'd probably back up a little, maybe to 1.5mg, switch over to a liquid taper so as to have more control over the consistency of the cuts and do a long hold, probably 2 to 4 weeks. Something like that is probably going to be what it would take if the goal is to stabilize as much as possible for doing the last mg. Regardless of whether or not you do a dose correction, I think that you will need to do a longer hold. Even if you make smaller cuts, the more you cut while you are feeling bad, the worse it's probably going to get. You are still on a high enough dose though that you should be able to right the ship.

 

I agree with what JJ said.  If symptoms are on the rise I would not push through.

 

In answer to your question about how such a small cut can cause so much havoc, we have some insight into that.  What matters is the percentage of receptors that are exposed (required to work without the drug) when a cut is made.  So how are dose and receptor occupancy related?  For all psych drugs, including benzos, dose and receptor occupancy are related like the curves in these pictures that I came across on SA.org...

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/f3h1ao5ijfj93/papers#0yp2c8pbjrziaab

 

The first thing that jumps out is those are not straight lines.   Very very bent.  We can see very clearly from this that at high doses a big cut exposes the same amount of receptors as a very small cut at low doses.  This means a very small cut at a low dose creates the same effect (exposes the same amount of receptors) as a much bigger cut at higher doses.  To me this explains why we have to go slower and slower.

SG57, I hope all is going ok i find this very interesting and can totally relate to this would you mind if i copy and pasted this info over to the klonopin club i think it would be great info for alot and thanks a bunch for sharing !~CD

 

Sure, no problem CD.  I've actually looked into it a little deeper too.  If you are interested let me know.

SG, Thanks and very interested as i must say take a look at what i was on dose wise this last.4 of k is brutal even with the valium! Again thank you!

 

SG, add me to this list. I've also had a couple of ideas on why this is the case. Might be interesting to compare notes.

[[ar...]]

Question for Anyone

 

Been doing good cutting and am down to 1.1 mg from 15 mg last August 2014.

 

Today i got slammed this afternoon. This is as bad as when i was on Lorazepam before crossover... DP/DR tinnitus visual issues etc.

I have not been close to this bad in months.

 

I mean at one time i was cutting 1-2 mg a week and then 1 mg...then .05 mg and then .025...and a month ago i  went to .0125 while at a seminar for 3 weeks in AZ.

At the end of it i felt great and i thought i was in the clear for the last of the journey. When i got home  2 weeks ago i cut .025 mg and it was a little rough but i made it. Then thursday i cut another .021 -actually  3 doses a day of .33 mg ( my pills weigh .180 for 2 mg)

 

I cut from .040 to .033 over a week....so monday it might be .040 and by friday it is .035  3 x a day...so i am probably at .036 mg 3 x per day

 

I was doing good this am but slept a bit in PM and when i woke up it started coming on strong and has not let up....horrible WD's

been getting shakes again in AM too.

 

My mind is having a hard time believing i am at this point of WD's SXS with this little amount of a cut comparatively.

 

I know it gets more about percentages at this point but still how can so little drop cause such radical effects?

 

I am cutting dry and putting it under my tongue to dissolve every dose.

 

Could use some words' links or reminders of how this goes or even advice. At this point i dont remember anything i have learned over the last 2 years when in this place

 

Thanks for any help!

 

Shasta

 

Hi Shasta,

 

Yuck, sorry to hear that you are getting hit. Were it me I'd probably back up a little, maybe to 1.5mg, switch over to a liquid taper so as to have more control over the consistency of the cuts and do a long hold, probably 2 to 4 weeks. Something like that is probably going to be what it would take if the goal is to stabilize as much as possible for doing the last mg. Regardless of whether or not you do a dose correction, I think that you will need to do a longer hold. Even if you make smaller cuts, the more you cut while you are feeling bad, the worse it's probably going to get. You are still on a high enough dose though that you should be able to right the ship.

 

I agree with what JJ said.  If symptoms are on the rise I would not push through.

 

In answer to your question about how such a small cut can cause so much havoc, we have some insight into that.  What matters is the percentage of receptors that are exposed (required to work without the drug) when a cut is made.  So how are dose and receptor occupancy related?  For all psych drugs, including benzos, dose and receptor occupancy are related like the curves in these pictures that I came across on SA.org...

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/f3h1ao5ijfj93/papers#0yp2c8pbjrziaab

 

The first thing that jumps out is those are not straight lines.   Very very bent.  We can see very clearly from this that at high doses a big cut exposes the same amount of receptors as a very small cut at low doses.  This means a very small cut at a low dose creates the same effect (exposes the same amount of receptors) as a much bigger cut at higher doses.  To me this explains why we have to go slower and slower.

SG57, I hope all is going ok i find this very interesting and can totally relate to this would you mind if i copy and pasted this info over to the klonopin club i think it would be great info for alot and thanks a bunch for sharing !~CD

 

Sure, no problem CD.  I've actually looked into it a little deeper too.  If you are interested let me know.

SG, Thanks and very interested as i must say take a look at what i was on dose wise this last.4 of k is brutal even with the valium! Again thank you!

 

SG, add me to this list. I've also had a couple of ideas on why this is the case. Might be interesting to compare notes.

 

This does make sense in my case as to why the last few milligrams have been rougher for me and the need to slow down.  Thanks for the information.