Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Mi...]]

The past two nights I've been awake most of the night with anxiety bordering on panic. This is new to me. Previously I could get about five hours of interrupted sleep per night. I don't know what's going on.

 

I'm at 15.5 mg. Valium and .16 Ativan. I've been microtapering the Valium liquid compound for 10 days at a rate of .05 mg.per night for a total of .5 mg. in 10 days. This amount should be well within the acceptable range. I dose part of the Valium and all the Ativan at 8:30 pm and part of the Valium at 1 am. But last night I was awake at 10 pm and , dammit, I finally gave up at 1 am and took an extra .04 mg. Ativan. I promised myself I would never updose, but I was going crazy. Don't know what I will do tonight.

 

Is this what I can expect from now on? Is it due to the Valium taper? I hate to slow down my taper because this is already taking years. I have no quality of life. Am anxious all day until I fall into a big depression pit. Can't drive. Can't be around people.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

MirandaJane

[[Ba...]]

jjrosk,

 

I apologize, I guess I wasn't clear, I was in WD since last summer when I was on the K, before I started any taper. I had WD symptoms prior to any taper.  I have been on Valium since late January. I am always in WD.  I would like to know if I should speed up as things are getting worse.

 

thanks

[[or...]]

Miranda, I'm confused. Why are you making cuts to your valium when you are not fully crossed over from Ativan? Usually people do a crossover, THEN start reducing the valium. Or am I missing something?

 

Okatz

 

 

[[Ba...]]

jjrosk,

 

I did up dose V 3 times, prior to starting tapering V and it did no good at all, in fact I felt sicker from the up doses.

 

thanks  - I just don't know what to do.

[[jj...]]

jjrosk,

 

I apologize, I guess I wasn't clear, I was in WD since last summer when I was on the K, before I started any taper. I had WD symptoms prior to any taper.  I have been on Valium since late January. I am always in WD.  I would like to know if I should speed up as things are getting worse.

 

thanks

 

Basha,

 

I was in withdrawal on my dose before I started tapering as well. Tolerance withdrawal is where it doesn't matter how much you updose, you are still in withdrawal. The only way to know would be if you kept increasing your original dose before your taper and held long for long periods of time at the increased dose. Tolerance and tolerance withdrawal are not the same thing. FWIW, I was in serious withdrawal for five months before my taper and things didn't start to significantly improve until five or six months into it, so that was about a year total time. Especially with K, once you get crosswise with it, it takes a long time to recover due to it's high potency. It's a very unforgiving drug. Think of it like a gimpy knee that gets aggravated during an activity and then swells up. The underlying condition stays the same even as you recover from the swelling and maybe it takes a really long time for the swelling to come down. Still doesn't change the underlying condition of the leg. What you want to do is try to address the swelling first and then work on the underlying cause. Similarly, when we taper we want to try to do what we can to get reasonably stable (i.e. address the swelling) and then we can start addressing the underlying problem by getting off the drug and then giving ourselves time to heal up.

 

Updosing on the v didn't really help me all that much either, but it may have made my taper easier. There isn't any way of knowing.

[[Ba...]]

jjrosk

 

Up dosing really isn't an option as I started my V taper at 17 MG and that was after three up doses which did nothing.  V really never worked for me other than making me so tired - still over 6 months later, V still makes me so tired, I lost 40lbs, and muscle mass is gone.  I had done a very long hold after these up doses and it did no good at all.  I have to go forward but am not sure how to do that.

[[mr...]]

jjrosk

 

Up dosing really isn't an option as I started my V taper at 17 MG and that was after three up doses which did nothing.  V really never worked for me other than making me so tired - still over 6 months later, V still makes me so tired, I lost 40lbs, and muscle mass is gone.  I had done a very long hold after these up doses and it did no good at all.  I have to go forward but am not sure how to do that.

Hi Basha,

If you were originally at .5mg Klonopin, why didn't you cross over to the equivalent amount of valium which is 10mg?

[[or...]]

Basha, it seems you have tried just about everything and can't get stable. So further updosing will probably not work.

 

Here's a suggestion. If it were me, I would just start tapering again. But I would microtaper. Daily small cuts are a lot easier on your body than cut and hold. Think of cut and hold as a series of steps in a staircase whereas microtapering is a ramp. I would sure rather walk down the ramp. Cut and hold was not good for me. Microtapering really saved my taper.

 

You can get your doctor to prescribe liquid valium. Most people can tolerate it. I know jjrosk used it during his taper and you can look at his signature for guidance. I made my own from valium tablets, vodka and water. Whichever you use, I would updose a tiny amount (sometimes changing delivery mediums is a little upsetting to the brain/body) to 15 mgs and taper by .05 mgs per day for, say, 10 days and see how it goes. If you are no worse off, I would continue. If you feel increased s/x after 10 days, just hold for a bit, then go on.

 

Given that you have to do something, I think a microtaper using liquids would be the least stressful way to proceed.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Okatz

[[bu...]]

Basha, it seems you have tried just about everything and can't get stable. So further updosing will probably not work.

 

Here's a suggestion. If it were me, I would just start tapering again. But I would microtaper. Daily small cuts are a lot easier on your body than cut and hold. Think of cut and hold as a series of steps in a staircase whereas microtapering is a ramp. I would sure rather walk down the ramp. Cut and hold was not good for me. Microtapering really saved my taper.

 

You can get your doctor to prescribe liquid valium. Most people can tolerate it. I know jjrosk used it during his taper and you can look at his signature for guidance. I made my own from valium tablets, vodka and water. Whichever you use, I would updose a tiny amount (sometimes changing delivery mediums is a little upsetting to the brain/body) to 15 mgs and taper by .05 mgs per day for, say, 10 days and see how it goes. If you are no worse off, I would continue. If you feel increased s/x after 10 days, just hold for a bit, then go on.

 

Given that you have to do something, I think a microtaper using liquids would be the least stressful way to proceed.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Okatz

 

:thumbsup:

[[Ba...]]

mrtmeo

 

I did then updosed per pdoc in an attempt to stabilize - to no avail. If I only knew.

[[be...]]

Tex:

 

I think I drink too much water anyway. Like 3 litres a day. That's because I sweat so much during my exercising that I am always thirsty. But yes, it does make sense to me. I'm not that stupid................yet. The Japanese water has a pH of 9.5. I stopped drinking it today. I think that is a high pH level. Maybe I should just cut down my water intake in general?

 

Basha: You are in a conundrum. I personally don't think updosing will do you any good. You already mentioned that it made you sick. I wonder why you are tapering your V while still on Ativan? I think you should complete the C/O first. You say you were in tol w/d before you even started tapering. That makes it tough. You can always tritrate by using both liquid V and pills. That way, you can speed it up or slow it down. You probably won't be symptomless during your taper. But really, how many of us are? Some just have an easier go of it, like me. At least once I get that Japanese water out of me. If builder pops in, you can ask him how much you should cut per day. I find him on the withdrawal section lately. Others here, might be able to help as well. I hope you can find your answer. If you want to find some else who is in a similar situation as you, but worse, you can always PM Mozart8181. I'm sure you will get a long response from her, tho I haven't seen her around lately.

 

jjrosk: Thanks for that link. Luckily, I've been sticking with one brand for about 15 months now.

 

Hey kittensick: You really have to either update your sig or make it more concise. It's a hard read for me, tho I know you are on 30 mg. Yes, this sux. We might have a rough go of it post taper, but think of the bigger picture. When we reach the end of the rainbow. I have stopped drinking that water. Too bad, as it made me feel so healthy. I felt I had been purged of all toxins that have accumulated over the years. It also got rid of my IBS. Boy, I can't wait for that to return. Nothing helps it. I have a very close relationship with my terlet. fwiw~~You can borrow my mother's cane.

 

Free: Early in my taper I tried different brands. They all seemed the same to me, but then again, I was on enough benzos to kill a horse, so any change would probably not have affected me. But I've been sticking with Teva for a long time now, and it works for me. 

 

:smitten:

Bets

[[mr...]]

mrtmeo

 

I did then updosed per pdoc in an attempt to stabilize - to no avail. If I only knew.

Do u feel better while tapering?

Not sure what type of taper you are doing.

[[cr...]]

Freeme,  please listen to JJ regarding the generics.  After living it, I researched it big time and he is absolutely right.  For years no one would believe me even though I and others were living proof of it.  Now, I have come to believe that people who won't believe it really dig their heels in so I quit mentioning it years ago.  Only mentioned it now to back JJ up.  You wouldn't believe all the generic stories I could tell after being on over 30 different meds over the years.

Sheesh, I'm concerned about so much stuff but I didn't think there was so much to be known about the color of my urine. I just thought if you drink enough water it should be clear,  unless you take B vitamins then you can expect bright yellow.  Hope we can get the definitive word on this.  cross

[[Ki...]]

Damn,

I started to have some crazy anxiety yesterday evening and I had the most horrified vivid crazy

dreams where my child was dead This is hell! What is going on? Is it normal?

[[Ki...]]

Benzogirl,

I try to make my sig less confusing. Not easy,since I tried so many withdrawal at tempa that failed

 

[[Ba...]]

mrtmeo

 

No - don't feel better while taper - doing a .5 dry cut and hold two every two weeks.

 

Benzogirl

I am not on Ativan, never was - I was on K but have been on just V since late January. 

[[be...]]

Basha: Sorry about my misreading you sig, but I was reading several at the same time. Just got a bit  . I made a partial C/O from K to V and it was one of the best benzo decisions I ever made. Well, I guess I'll wait until I begin my taper off Valium. I am hoping that taper goes well, all in thanks to builder. That man is a genius! I think many of us would be lost w/o him here.

 

Kittensick: Sorry about your bad dreams. But that's all they are, bad dreams. I get them once in a while and wake up startled but then I force my mind to remember it is just a dream and nothing more. Then of course I go back to bed, only to have that same dream. That's OK about your sig. I'll just read your posts more carefully. I usually read a sig before I reply.

[[Ki...]]

Benzogirl,

those are not dreams just some torture real vivid dreams. I woke up shaking looking for my son..

It was sooo real It took me a while to realize I am awake and it was a dream but sooo weird

[[mr...]]

mrtmeo

 

No - don't feel better while taper - doing a .5 dry cut and hold two every two weeks.

 

Basha,

It was very difficult for me to find my mom's taper rate.

Sometimes we have to keep tapering until we notice how long the symptoms increase in intensity and stop to know when to start cutting again.

Perhaps, if you keep going at the rate you are at or what is comfortable until you find your rate of healing, then, maybe you might find stabilization?

I used this calculation for my mom's holds.

 

If you are >20 years old.

36 hours + 1 hour for each year > 20 years old

 

or

If you are <20 years old.

36 hours minus 1 hour for each year < 20 years old.

 

Then multiply times 5 half lives divided by 24 hours =  Days to Hold

 

This is just an estimate to find a starting point if you are unsure, but most find their own point when they know when to cut again.

[[ca...]]

Benzogirl,

those are not dreams just some torture real vivid dreams. I woke up shaking looking for my son..

It was sooo real It took me a while to realize I am awake and it was a dream but sooo weird

Kitten, i know your on valium right now but how long were you on klonopin ? It will take a while for it to leave your system and dreams and such are part of the withdrawl. My Doc told me the valium will not cover the klonopin withdrawl just make it easier but not make you feel great just there to help relax you a bit but still going to have to feel the klonopin withdrawl make sense ?

[[jj...]]

Benzogirl,

those are not dreams just some torture real vivid dreams. I woke up shaking looking for my son..

It was sooo real It took me a while to realize I am awake and it was a dream but sooo weird

Kitten, i know your on valium right now but how long were you on klonopin ? It will take a while for it to leave your system and dreams and such are part of the withdrawl. My Doc told me the valium will not cover the klonopin withdrawl just make it easier but not make you feel great just there to help relax you a bit but still going to have to feel the klonopin withdrawl make sense ?

 

This was certainly true in my experience.

[[ca...]]

Benzogirl,

those are not dreams just some torture real vivid dreams. I woke up shaking looking for my son..

It was sooo real It took me a while to realize I am awake and it was a dream but sooo weird

Kitten, i know your on valium right now but how long were you on klonopin ? It will take a while for it to leave your system and dreams and such are part of the withdrawl. My Doc told me the valium will not cover the klonopin withdrawl just make it easier but not make you feel great just there to help relax you a bit but still going to have to feel the klonopin withdrawl make sense ?

jj, you agreeing that the klonopin withdrawl is still there during a c/o to valium? I believe and was told it takes a long while for klonopin to leave your system and like i mentioned valium does not cover !

 

This was certainly true in my experience.

[[jj...]]

Benzogirl,

those are not dreams just some torture real vivid dreams. I woke up shaking looking for my son..

It was sooo real It took me a while to realize I am awake and it was a dream but sooo weird

Kitten, i know your on valium right now but how long were you on klonopin ? It will take a while for it to leave your system and dreams and such are part of the withdrawl. My Doc told me the valium will not cover the klonopin withdrawl just make it easier but not make you feel great just there to help relax you a bit but still going to have to feel the klonopin withdrawl make sense ?

jj, you agreeing that the klonopin withdrawl is still there during a c/o to valium? I believe and was told it takes a long while for klonopin to leave your system and like i mentioned valium does not cover !

 

This was certainly true in my experience.

 

Yeah, k withdrawal is it's own thing and has to run its course. That's what I was trying to explain to Basha. That's what makes the k crossovers tricky, you have to be committed to the withdrawal for a while before you stabilize on the v.

[[ca...]]

Benzogirl,

those are not dreams just some torture real vivid dreams. I woke up shaking looking for my son..

It was sooo real It took me a while to realize I am awake and it was a dream but sooo weird

Kitten, i know your on valium right now but how long were you on klonopin ? It will take a while for it to leave your system and dreams and such are part of the withdrawl. My Doc told me the valium will not cover the klonopin withdrawl just make it easier but not make you feel great just there to help relax you a bit but still going to have to feel the klonopin withdrawl make sense ?

jj, you agreeing that the klonopin withdrawl is still there during a c/o to valium? I believe and was told it takes a long while for klonopin to leave your system and like i mentioned valium does not cover !

 

This was certainly true in my experience.

 

Yeah, k withdrawal is it's own thing and has to run its course. That's what I was trying to explain to Basha. That's what makes the k crossovers tricky, you have to be committed to the withdrawal for a while before you stabilize on the v.

JJ, YES i agree as i did a partial c/o and must say the withdrawls are still bad but i guess alot better then not havin done the partial c/o i think Aston left that part out but then agin i never did the full c/o Thanks and be well !

[[jj...]]

Benzogirl,

those are not dreams just some torture real vivid dreams. I woke up shaking looking for my son..

It was sooo real It took me a while to realize I am awake and it was a dream but sooo weird

Kitten, i know your on valium right now but how long were you on klonopin ? It will take a while for it to leave your system and dreams and such are part of the withdrawl. My Doc told me the valium will not cover the klonopin withdrawl just make it easier but not make you feel great just there to help relax you a bit but still going to have to feel the klonopin withdrawl make sense ?

jj, you agreeing that the klonopin withdrawl is still there during a c/o to valium? I believe and was told it takes a long while for klonopin to leave your system and like i mentioned valium does not cover !

 

This was certainly true in my experience.

 

Yeah, k withdrawal is it's own thing and has to run its course. That's what I was trying to explain to Basha. That's what makes the k crossovers tricky, you have to be committed to the withdrawal for a while before you stabilize on the v.

JJ, YES i agree as i did a partial c/o and must say the withdrawls are still bad but i guess alot better then not havin done the partial c/o i think Aston left that part out but then agin i never did the full c/o Thanks and be well !

 

She does mention it for k and in fact had to alter her crossovers for folks on k that were having a really hard time with it. My crossover worked out okay in the long run, but doing it over again, I would have given some serious consideration to the Peart crossover schedules. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say.