Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Di...]]

[shadow=red,left][glow=red,2,300]Woo Hoo Carita!! Job Well Done!![/glow][/shadow]

[[fr...]]

  I am tapering V also.  I have gone now from 20 mg V to 16.25.  ONly did 2 cuts of 1/4 of 5 mg. pill.  I felt both cuts on the 4th day.  Nothing too horrible but not a party either.  Burning mouth acts up and stomach pain.  This cut also had digestive upset and still today am nauseous and iffy.  I will probably hold another week or more if needed.  I was on the Ativan a long time so I know it is going to take time.  Not in a rush but hate it that I also have to take the other drugs for pain.  Want to get off this valium before I have to have a major surgery for my spine.  I probably won't make it but the lower I can get the better.  I don't have many answers because I'm new but I want you all to know how much this forum helps me, just to read etc.  I am so scared of every symptom but I hang on by reading and learning.  You are all wonderful.  THANKS!!!!!

[[Mi...]]

I'm having a terrible anxiety day today. Awake since 3:30 am. Walked, paced, cried, angry, finally meditated and slept an hour and had horrible dreams. Now anxious and upset again. I need to update my signature. I'm at 16 mg. Valilum (microcut a total of .5 in the past week - and it's catching up with me) and .16 mg. Ativan. So far to go. So scared, angry, upset. Can't think of any distractions. Don't want to talk to anybody, go anywhere, can't get my thoughts on anything else. Please, will this get better?

 

In Benzo Hell,

MirandaJane

[[fr...]]

  I'm new at this also but I found that once I got all the Ativan out of my system I felt better.  I took around 5 months to crossover and then held a little at 20 mg.  Now I'm tapering the V and I find I feel some symptoms on the 4 or 5th day after cut.  I think once you get the Ativan out of your system for good you will stabilize some and feel much better.  Hope you feel better soon.

[[Mi...]]

Free me - thank you for your reply.

 

I was crossing over to Valium but it finally made me too depressed and tired. So I quit crossing over and started cutting Ativan. Did that for four weeks, but found I was overloaded on Valium and am now cutting Valium instead. It seems I can't win - too much anxiety if I cut Valium, but too much tiredness and depression if I cut the Valium.  I thought I would cut Valium for 4-6 weeks, then go back to cutting Ativan. Any way I do it, it's no fun.

 

I microtapered the Ativan using a liquid compound from pharmacy, and hope to microtaper the Valium. Maybe that will make it easier, but I don't know.

 

I've never stabilized - my symptoms just always get worse.

 

Thanks for your input,

MirandaJane

[Guest [Ma...]]

Bets,

 

Welcome to the adrenal cocktail lounge. 

 

Thanks Arcade: I never even heard of it until I read it here. But I have a question: Snow mentioned that she drinks it every morning and every night. Should I do the same? I don't get spikes in the am but lately, I wake up a lot during the night. :'( Not quality sleep at all.

Bets

 

Bets,

 

Yes, every morning, every night. In five days or so, you should see a NOTICEABLE difference! By the way, etown (our own superman) does this too!!

 

You're healing your adrenals with this. In fact, they recommend you drink this even during the day if you feel anxious. I promise, this has changed my benzo-withdrawal LIFE. I was waking every day at 4 am with cortisol rushes every 10 minutes for an hour and a half. Now? Nothing.

 

Snow ❄️

 

Snow,

I will be trying this tonight. Curious, will you describe what your morning cortisol spikes feel like and do you know f one can substitute any citric acid juice for the orange.

 

Thanks,

Marija. 

[[Mo...]]

Marija , I just know it's something to do with the vitamin C and the sugar.

But just to make sure, not to use grapefruit juice.

 

It's helped me a lot , the cocktail. No more 3 am adrenaline rushes wake ups. 

[[Te...]]

Thank you Bart....you were my mentor. I watched you taper and heal and knew that was my method as well. I am very grateful for your guidance.

 

With gratitude,

 

Carita

 

 

Carita,

I'm so happy for you, It give me hope!!,  Congratulations!!!   

 

Hope everyone is doing well,  I just came back from a trip from Dallas, I couldn't believe, It was fine, we drove to Dallas, It was 4 hours drive, very smooth, no symptoms,  little  pain and fear feeling, but nothing big,  hotel was nice,  food was great,

holding in 2.5 V,  few months ago I couldn't go to Walmart,  no even to any store,  I'm still fragile, but not thinking to go to ER all the time. 

 

I'm so happy for all my BB,  you guys rock, I read all your post,  we have great heroes,  Diaz-pan started this thread but there are many that support and made this thread the best. 

 

Love benzo buddies

 

Tex

 

:smitten: :smitten:

 

 

 

[[ar...]]

I just bought apple juice today.  The hymalian salt showed up also.  A lot of vitamin C in app!e juice with less acid.  First cocktail will be tonight.  Even though I don't get the adrenaline rushes, will this help the 3am wake up?  Does this help the adrenal glands?

[Guest [Ma...]]

Hey moo,

How about some pics of the hollyhocks and mallow!  Lucky you.

Thank you. I will research it.

 

For you, do the morning spikes include burning, tingling, anxiety, sweating etc?

 

Marija🌺

[[Mo...]]

I just bought apple juice today.  The hymalian salt showed up also.  A lot of vitamin C in app!e juice with less acid.  First cocktail will be tonight.  Even though I don't get the adrenaline rushes, will this help the 3am wake up?  Does this help the adrenal glands?

 

It should. It's for adrenal support.

[[Mo...]]

Hey moo,

How about some pics of the hollyhocks and mallow!  Lucky you.

Thank you. I will research it.

 

For you, do the morning spikes include burning, tingling, anxiety, sweating etc?

 

Marija🌺

 

Will take some pics tomorrow and post to my blog. The open forum can't have pictures due to it slowing everything down, so I'll post them there .

 

No burning for me. But tingle, yes. And  big YES on anxiety and sweating, or freezing, depending on...nothing. Just happens .

And feeling weak, tired but ramped up. Absent minded and shaky.

I have not had it bad in a While now.

[Guest [Ma...]]

Hey moo,

How about some pics of the hollyhocks and mallow!  Lucky you.

Thank you. I will research it.

 

For you, do the morning spikes include burning, tingling, anxiety, sweating etc?

 

Marija🌺

 

Will take some pics tomorrow and post to my blog. The open forum can't have pictures due to it slowing everything down, so I'll post them there .

 

No burning for me. But tingle, yes. And  big YES on anxiety and sweating, or freezing, depending on...nothing. Just happens .

And feeling weak, tired but ramped up. Absent minded and shaky.

I have not had it bad in a While now.

 

I will stop in!

Well, I hope this cocktail works. Would be a relief to have something take the edge off.

 

M🌺

[[et...]]

http://www.rejuvinstitute.com/why-do-i-always-wake-up-at-3am

[[ar...]]

http://www.rejuvinstitute.com/why-do-i-always-wake-up-at-3am

 

Thank you for the link.

[[ar...]]

Does anyone know at what dosage Valium stops providing muscle relaxer properties?

[[or...]]

arcade I have read that less than 2 mgs of valium is no longer a therapeutic dose. I'm guessing that the muscle relaxing properties would disappear along with the anti-anxiety properties? Just a guess. Maybe someone who knows more will chime in here. 

[[Se...]]

Just an FYI for those of you considering taking the adrenal cocktail... Please read this on CYP3a4 activity and fruits. As most of us know, grapefruit juice is a no go - even says so on the Rx for Valium from the pharmacy - because it inhibits the enzymes in the liver that process the drug, making the drug more potent in your system.

 

Depending on your genetics and how sensitive your CYP enzymes in your liver are, orange juice can do the same thing. This article lists several fruit juices that we should avoid such as papaya (paw paw) etc. That act similarly to grapefruit juice with this enzyme.

 

Orange juice it lists as blocking the CYP3a4 enzyme only at about 40 %, which it states is therefore ineffective. For some this may be the case.

For others, like me, that 40% block is a whammy, and I geeked "drugged up" with oranges / orange juice.

So my thought is, if you do do this that you would do it consistently so that you effective dose I. Your blood is consistent. And I am sure it has to do with genetics too!

 

Not sure what others experience. But I thought I would mention this.

 

Here's the link...

 

http://www.ganfyd.org/index.php?title=Inhibitors_of_CYP3A4

 

Here's the text from the page...

 

"Food and juices

 

A number of dietary components are known to inhibit the CYP3A4 system. The importance of this depends upon the individual, the inhibitor consumed and for how long, and of course the drug whose metabolism will be impaired. In the case of grapefruit juice the active inhibitors are known to be predominantly bergamottin and 6'7'-dihydroxybergamottin but other substances may be involved.[1]. Inhibition of intestinal CYP3A4 is initially most important, and this will cause significant interactions with some drugs predominantly metabolised on a first pass basis in the intestinal wall such as lovastatin. Constant consumption of grapefruit juice is more likely to produce hepatic CYP3A4 blockage. Of course the activity of grapefruit juice inactivation of CYP3A4 also depends upon the fruit the juice was prepared from, if it has been frozen, etc.[2] Red wine is a reversible inhibitor, at about 80% level by a different assay. Serville oranges, Pomelos' (a grapefruit from South India) and lime juice (at high concentration) have been shown to affect human drug metabolism of drugs such as tacrolimus.[3][4]

Fresh fruit juice inhibitors of this cytochrome system which metabolizes about 40 to 50% of the drugs on the market are in order of potency: [5][1]

Star fruit (Averrhoa carambola) 99.9% blockage midazolam 1'-hydroxylation

Pomegranate (Nephelium lappaceum) 96.8% blockage midazolam 1'-hydroxylation

Pawpaw, common papaw, papaya (Carica papaya) 88.6% blockage midazolam 1'-hydroxylation

Grapefruit (white) (Citrus paradise) 85.3% blockage midazolam 1'-hydroxylation

The following fresh fruit juices have much less activity (ie no more than 40% blockage) and are therefore effectively inactive

Valencia orange (Citrus sinensis)

Mango (Mangifera indica)

Rambutan (Passiflora edulis )

Kiwi fruit, Chinese gooseberry (Actinidia chinensis)

Dragon fruit (Hylocereus undatus)

Passion fruit (Punica granatum)

Tangerines - inactivity reported.

Herbal prepartions

 

Echinacea, particularly as a herbal extract of E. purpurea , ginkgo,soy based preparations and grape seed extract are herbal medicines which inhibit CYP3A4. General caution should be exerted with concurrent chemotherapy or other medications metabolized via the CYP 450 pathway for these products. Garlic is both an inhibitor and appears to be a potential CYP3A4 inducer. Even more important as an inducer is St John's wort.

Drugs

 

Inhibition causing in man raised drug levels and harm of other drugs (in brackets) metabolised by this enzyme have been reported with:

ciclosporin (repaglinide, lovastatin[6]) which also inhibits hepatic uptake transporter organic anion transporting polypeptide 1B1 (OATP1B1)[7]

Itraconazole (loperamide[8], simvastatin[9], atorvastatin )which also inhibits P-glycoprotein

Nicardipine (triazolam}[10]

omeprazole (increases R-Warfarin)[11]

Potent Inhibitors

mibefradil

ketoconazole

telithromycin

erythromycin

clarithromycin"

 

Blessings

Selah

 

 

[[bu...]]

You don't indicate how long you've been on V, but if its more than a few months, it probably has no real therapeutic effect of any kind.  Tolerance to benzos build pretty quickly, and they soon stop providing any relief.  That's one of the reasons benzos are not appropriate for long-term therapy.

[[ar...]]

Selah,

 

Thanks for the info.  You nailed it when you said this "So my thought is, if you do do this that you would do it consistently so that you effective dose I. Your blood is consistent. "

 

I have to do this with my omeprazole.  I would love to taper this PPI but I can't until the Valium is out of my system.  I have to consistently take this med so my valium blood levels are consistent.  I would have switched ppi's had I known this before taper but too late now.

 

I want off this PPI but I have to remain patient.  Tapering this PPI will be another challenge for me.

 

For the adrenal cocktail I am using apple juice.  I don't see app!e juice in your info.

[[Ca...]]

Dear Friends...Katz, Marija, Bart, Bets, Snow, Smiff, Moo, Anu, Tex, DP, Willdoit (my across the river friend!) and more, 

 

    Your words of congratulations are very appreciated. I feel great relief being finished. Last night when I prepared for bed the basket of valium, syringes and notes were in their usual place on the bathroom counter. I looked at the 3x5 cards I had used to track my doses and felt a great sense of self compassion. A small stack of cards...dates and slash marks...a countdown to drug freedom. Three years of progress. How we do this amazes me. The power of the human spirit...wondrous. I am deeply grateful.

 

      So far I feel no different. Felt well enough to walk in our unusual heat and then ride with hubby to our cabin. Resting now after another walk with my dog. As I packed to come to the ocean I no longer checked, double checked, triple checked whether I packed the valium. Freedom at last!

 

  Again...thank you! I'm waiting until I can congratulate each of you on your final dose. As TrueSouth always said...if I can do it anyone can!

 

Warmly,

 

Carita

[Guest [Ma...]]

Carita,

 

Truly wonderful reading your update and that your are doing well. As you described your tapering paraphernalia, the system, the habituation of the routine, I sighed knowing you will never need to do that ever again. Your bathroom counter will need some redecorating!  Victory!!

 

May your days be filled with laughter, long walks and love.

 

💗

Marija

[Guest [wi...]]

Dear Carita,

 

Thank you for keeping us posted on your benzo freedom.  Enjoy the beautiful coast and the long walks on the beach with the fittest dog in town!  Much love, S

[[Se...]]

Arcade -

I am not sure about the apple juice. I don't think it's a CYP thing that I have come across.

I know that regular brands do contain ascorbic acid, but apples have no vitaminC in them themselves.

One thing apple juice does have a lot of , just like grape juice, however is arsenic. My doctor said to stay away from those and rice because of the high arsenic content.

So if you are concerned about that, you may want to look at an organic brand if you can find one if you are going to try it and don't want the extra toxic burden on your liver.

 

Let us know how it goes.

 

Blessings

Selah

[[Mo...]]

http://www.rejuvinstitute.com/why-do-i-always-wake-up-at-3am

 

Thanks , E!

 

Holy cow! 1.25....