Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[li...]]

Since we have been discussing technical issues, perhaps someone can tell me how much diazepam accumulates over days/weeks/months ? Desmethyldiazepam is of course more complicated.

I read elsewhere that crossing over from K to V can be frustrated by the fact that diazepam accumulates, but clonazepam accumulates too (3 times the daily dose?) ! It gets even more complicated if I have the intention of following Ashton's schedules and you have to deal with the fact that you take only one dose of K a day. Splitting K in several doses is not tolerated, mixing K and V is complicated and messy at best.

 

As a simple question: if I take 40 mg of diazepam a day for two weeks, how much am I really taking after two weeks ? Or: It accumulates as how many times the daily dose ?

[[Mo...]]

Since we have been discussing technical issues, perhaps someone can tell me how much diazepam accumulates over days/weeks/months ? Desmethyldiazepam is of course more complicated.

I read elsewhere that crossing over from K to V can be frustrated by the fact that diazepam accumulates, but clonazepam accumulates too (3 times the daily dose?) ! It gets even more complicated if I have the intention of following Ashton's schedules and you have to deal with the fact that you take only one dose of K a day. Splitting K in several doses is not tolerated, mixing K and V is complicated and messy at best.

 

As a simple question: if I take 40 mg of diazepam a day for two weeks, how much am I really taking after two weeks ? Or: It accumulates as how many times the daily dose ?

 

From what I've always read here it's 5-8 times. Depending on metabolism.

[[bu...]]

Since we have been discussing technical issues, perhaps someone can tell me how much diazepam accumulates over days/weeks/months ? Desmethyldiazepam is of course more complicated.

I read elsewhere that crossing over from K to V can be frustrated by the fact that diazepam accumulates, but clonazepam accumulates too (3 times the daily dose?) ! It gets even more complicated if I have the intention of following Ashton's schedules and you have to deal with the fact that you take only one dose of K a day. Splitting K in several doses is not tolerated, mixing K and V is complicated and messy at best.

 

As a simple question: if I take 40 mg of diazepam a day for two weeks, how much am I really taking after two weeks ? Or: It accumulates as how many times the daily dose ?

 

From what I've always read here it's 5-8 times. Depending on metabolism.

That's the figure most commonly reported.  I've actually done a calculation based on half-life, and get about 8X daily dose.  My GP and my pdoc concur that its a reasonably close approximation, if you include the active metabolites.

 

So your 40mg/day could become equivalent  200-240mg accumulation.

[[Mo...]]

Since we have been discussing technical issues, perhaps someone can tell me how much diazepam accumulates over days/weeks/months ? Desmethyldiazepam is of course more complicated.

I read elsewhere that crossing over from K to V can be frustrated by the fact that diazepam accumulates, but clonazepam accumulates too (3 times the daily dose?) ! It gets even more complicated if I have the intention of following Ashton's schedules and you have to deal with the fact that you take only one dose of K a day. Splitting K in several doses is not tolerated, mixing K and V is complicated and messy at best.

 

As a simple question: if I take 40 mg of diazepam a day for two weeks, how much am I really taking after two weeks ? Or: It accumulates as how many times the daily dose ?

 

From what I've always read here it's 5-8 times. Depending on metabolism.

That's the figure most commonly reported.  I've actually done a calculation based on half-life, and get about 8X daily dose.  My GP and my pdoc concur that its a reasonably close approximation, if you include the active metabolites.

 

So your 40mg/day could become equivalent  200-240mg accumulation.

 

Holy ..something!

That makes me quiet.

I just did the math for 15 mgr , where I've started with.

 

So, now I'm wondering, Builder: does it make sense, based on this info, to really go on fumes on the last 0,5 mgr for me, then?

If nothing comes in anymore, does the rest of the Valium kind of " self taper " or drop quicker ?

I'm not sure if this makes any sense. 

[[bu...]]

Since we have been discussing technical issues, perhaps someone can tell me how much diazepam accumulates over days/weeks/months ? Desmethyldiazepam is of course more complicated.

I read elsewhere that crossing over from K to V can be frustrated by the fact that diazepam accumulates, but clonazepam accumulates too (3 times the daily dose?) ! It gets even more complicated if I have the intention of following Ashton's schedules and you have to deal with the fact that you take only one dose of K a day. Splitting K in several doses is not tolerated, mixing K and V is complicated and messy at best.

 

As a simple question: if I take 40 mg of diazepam a day for two weeks, how much am I really taking after two weeks ? Or: It accumulates as how many times the daily dose ?

 

From what I've always read here it's 5-8 times. Depending on metabolism.

That's the figure most commonly reported.  I've actually done a calculation based on half-life, and get about 8X daily dose.  My GP and my pdoc concur that its a reasonably close approximation, if you include the active metabolites.

 

So your 40mg/day could become equivalent  200-240mg accumulation.

 

Holy ..something!

That makes me quiet.

I just did the math for 15 mgr , where I've started with.

 

So, now I'm wondering, Builder: does it make sense, based on this info, to really go on fumes on the last 0,5 mgr for me, then?

If nothing comes in anymore, does the rest of the Valium kind of " self taper " or drop quicker ?

I'm not sure if this makes any sense. 

 

 

IMO, at some point, you lose your dependency.  It was very obvious to me down to that once I got 3 mg, I had absolutely no difficulties after that.  And I jumped at .5, and again, no sxs at all. 

 

No, I do not believe its necessary to taper all the way to zero.

 

That's strictly an opinion based mostly on personal experience, logic, and discussions with my GP.  I have no documentation to support. it.

 

And as alway, listen to your body.  If your down to 1. or so, and still have discomfort, I would continue to taper.

[[mr...]]

So, my mom's shrink called Skywalk compounding pharmacy to mix up some valium in almond oil.

They ask why the patient has to have this combo.

I tell the dr that she gets nausea from the radiator fluid mix and she has 4th stage kidney failure.

The dr calls back, tells them this and they say, "We don't compound Controlled substances"

Really? Last I heard all prescriptions are controlled substances!...scary coming from people who mix drugs.

 

So I called my sisters compounding pharmacy and talked to the pharmacist.

He said, yes we have usp grade almond oil right here and we can compound it with diazepam.

I told the pharmacist that my sister recommended them and he said, "Smart sister!"

[[Mo...]]

So, my mom's shrink called Skywalk compounding pharmacy to mix up some valium in almond oil.

They ask why the patient has to have this combo.

I tell the dr that she gets nausea from the radiator fluid mix and she has 4th stage kidney failure.

The dr calls back, tells them this and they say, "We don't compound Controlled substances"

Really? Last I heard all prescriptions are controlled substances!...scary coming from people who mix drugs.

 

So I called my sisters compounding pharmacy and talked to the pharmacist.

He said, yes we have usp grade almond oil right here and we can compound it with diazepam.

 

Sorry but if this wasn't so outrageous, I'd laugh right now.

What DO the compound ? In this PHARMACY?

Ibuprofen ?

[[li...]]

A bit earlier, I looked at Reg Peart's work.

 

http://www.drregpeart.org/valium_vs_klonopin.html

 

He came up with a number of 5-7 times for both the diazepam and the desmethyldiazepam.

 

So 5-8 times is close. Assuming that number includes the desmethyldiazepam.

 

If I were to switch from 2 mg clonazepam to 40 mg in a direct crossover, that would not be enough.

It's complicated. Clonazepam builds up too, but much less.

When I tried diazepam the first time I could sleep fine the first night. But when the clonazepam started leaving my body, the troubles began ... Clonazepam is an incredibly complicated drug.

 

So, for a straight switch (assuming it would work) I would need close to 320 mg diazepam !! 

I find that a bit much, dousing my body with those quantities.

 

I have stated this before so I'll keep it brief, but since I take clonazepam once a day and I cannot split doses I have real isses mixing these drugs. For example, I cannot take diazepam and clonazepam at the same time ! It would be so messy in about every sense of the word.

 

Well, back to the thread I think I just need some time to figure out what to do with this.

 

[[mr...]]

So, my mom's shrink called Skywalk compounding pharmacy to mix up some valium in almond oil.

They ask why the patient has to have this combo.

I tell the dr that she gets nausea from the radiator fluid mix and she has 4th stage kidney failure.

The dr calls back, tells them this and they say, "We don't compound Controlled substances"

Really? Last I heard all prescriptions are controlled substances!...scary coming from people who mix drugs.

 

So I called my sisters compounding pharmacy and talked to the pharmacist.

He said, yes we have usp grade almond oil right here and we can compound it with diazepam.

 

Sorry but if this wasn't so outrageous, I'd laugh right now.

What DO the compound ? In this PHARMACY?

Ibuprofen ?

Probably only compound toxic substances.

[[mr...]]

A bit earlier, I looked at Reg Peart's work.

 

http://www.drregpeart.org/valium_vs_klonopin.html

 

He came up with a number of 5-7 times for both the diazepam and the desmethyldiazepam.

 

So 5-8 times is close. Assuming that number includes the desmethyldiazepam.

 

If I were to switch from 2 mg clonazepam to 40 mg in a direct crossover, that would not be enough.

It's complicated. Clonazepam builds up too, but much less.

When I tried diazepam the first time I could sleep fine the first night. But when the clonazepam started leaving my body, the troubles began ... Clonazepam is an incredibly complicated drug.

 

So, for a straight switch (assuming it would work) I would need close to 320 mg diazepam !! 

I find that a bit much, dousing my body with those quantities.

 

I have stated this before so I'll keep it brief, but since I take clonazepam once a day and I cannot split doses I have real isses mixing these drugs. For example, I cannot take diazepam and clonazepam at the same time ! It would be so messy in about every sense of the word.

 

Well, back to the thread I think I just need some time to figure out what to do with this.

 

Liberty,

I don't know where you are coming up with an equivelent valium to klonopin dose at 320mg valium.

The equivelent valium to klonopin for 2mg klonopin is 40mg.

http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

 

40mg is a high dose to start with and many will taper down their klonopin until they get to 1mg klonopin or less.

Klonopin is a very dangerous drug IMHO.

[[bu...]]

So, my mom's shrink called Skywalk compounding pharmacy to mix up some valium in almond oil.

They ask why the patient has to have this combo.

I tell the dr that she gets nausea from the radiator fluid mix and she has 4th stage kidney failure.

The dr calls back, tells them this and they say, "We don't compound Controlled substances"

Really? Last I heard all prescriptions are controlled substances!...scary coming from people who mix drugs.

 

So I called my sisters compounding pharmacy and talked to the pharmacist.

He said, yes we have usp grade almond oil right here and we can compound it with diazepam.

I told the pharmacist that my sister recommended them and he said, "Smart sister!"

    Rx only is not the same as controlled substance.

 

Controlled substances, or controlled drugs, are drugs that are under federal control and listed by the DEA under us it 5 schedules, or classifications.  They are mostly drugs of abuse, and the schedule # (1-5) indicates the relative potential for abuse.  Schedule 1 is considered the most dangerous, and includes, heroin, LSD, pot  (yes, pot! )

 

Benzos are schedule 4,  schedule 5  being the least likely to be abused.

[[Mo...]]

So, my mom's shrink called Skywalk compounding pharmacy to mix up some valium in almond oil.

They ask why the patient has to have this combo.

I tell the dr that she gets nausea from the radiator fluid mix and she has 4th stage kidney failure.

The dr calls back, tells them this and they say, "We don't compound Controlled substances"

Really? Last I heard all prescriptions are controlled substances!...scary coming from people who mix drugs.

 

So I called my sisters compounding pharmacy and talked to the pharmacist.

He said, yes we have usp grade almond oil right here and we can compound it with diazepam.

I told the pharmacist that my sister recommended them and he said, "Smart sister!"

    Rx only is not the same as controlled substance.

 

Controlled substances, or controlled drugs, are drugs that are under federal control and listed by the DEA under us it 5 schedules, or classifications.  They are mostly drugs of abuse, and the schedule # (1-5) indicates the relative potential for abuse.  Schedule 1 is considered the most dangerous, and includes, heroin, LSD, pot  (yes, pot! )

 

Benzos are schedule 4,  schedule 5  being the least likely to be abused.

 

Ah, I see...

 

Sheesh. Pot .... And then benzo way later. 

[[mr...]]

So, my mom's shrink called Skywalk compounding pharmacy to mix up some valium in almond oil.

They ask why the patient has to have this combo.

I tell the dr that she gets nausea from the radiator fluid mix and she has 4th stage kidney failure.

The dr calls back, tells them this and they say, "We don't compound Controlled substances"

Really? Last I heard all prescriptions are controlled substances!...scary coming from people who mix drugs.

 

So I called my sisters compounding pharmacy and talked to the pharmacist.

He said, yes we have usp grade almond oil right here and we can compound it with diazepam.

I told the pharmacist that my sister recommended them and he said, "Smart sister!"

    Rx only is not the same as controlled substance.

 

Controlled substances, or controlled drugs, are drugs that are under federal control and listed by the DEA under us it 5 schedules, or classifications.  They are mostly drugs of abuse, and the schedule # (1-5) indicates the relative potential for abuse.  Schedule 1 is considered the most dangerous, and includes, heroin, LSD, pot  (yes, pot! )

 

Benzos are schedule 4,  schedule 5  being the least likely to be abused.

Yes, I know but if this were ativan or xanax, i'm sure they would have no problem.

I need my driver's licence when I pick up my mom's valium script, but didn't need it for her ativan.

It all comes down to which drugs had the most lawsuits and valium has been around the longest.

[[bu...]]

So, my mom's shrink called Skywalk compounding pharmacy to mix up some valium in almond oil.

They ask why the patient has to have this combo.

I tell the dr that she gets nausea from the radiator fluid mix and she has 4th stage kidney failure.

The dr calls back, tells them this and they say, "We don't compound Controlled substances"

Really? Last I heard all prescriptions are controlled substances!...scary coming from people who mix drugs.

 

So I called my sisters compounding pharmacy and talked to the pharmacist.

He said, yes we have usp grade almond oil right here and we can compound it with diazepam.

I told the pharmacist that my sister recommended them and he said, "Smart sister!"

    Rx only is not the same as controlled substance.

 

Controlled substances, or controlled drugs, are drugs that are under federal control and listed by the DEA under us it 5 schedules, or classifications.  They are mostly drugs of abuse, and the schedule # (1-5) indicates the relative potential for abuse.  Schedule 1 is considered the most dangerous, and includes, heroin, LSD, pot  (yes, pot! )

 

Benzos are schedule 4,  schedule 5  being the least likely to be abused.

Yes, I know but if this were ativan or xanax, i'm sure they would have no problem.

I need my driver's licence when I pick up my mom's valium script, but didn't need it for her ativan.

It all comes down to which drugs had the most lawsuits and valium has been around the longest.

  Those are both Sch 4 drugs.

[[Mo...]]

Is Valium not sch 4?

So, Benzodiazepines can be in different schedules ?

[[mr...]]

Is Valium not sch 4?

So, Benzodiazepines can be in different schedules ?

I think they are all in the same schedule, but pharmacies seem to descriminate.

I remember picking up some klonopin, ativan, gabapentin and xanax for a friend and they never asked me for a photo id.

[[bu...]]

Is Valium not sch 4?

So, Benzodiazepines can be in different schedules ?

 

All benzos are sch 4.

[[Mo...]]

Hi my friends..need your advice. First of all, went to doctor after doctor so far, trying to find cause of fever. It's been arduous especially while in horrible waves constantly having just switched back to klonopin from my V taper, to which I am tolerant. My saturation is low at 92 and 93. I have to undergo a colonoscopy (plus now I have lost 18 pounds in a couple weeks. Can't eat. Gut hurts.) and an endoscopy. They will be giving me Demerol with Versed for the procedure. Then they almost always add Benadryl too. What am I going to do with those drugs on board as far as my withdrawal schedule, my saturation when I get home, when to dose again, etc? They monitor my saturation there but I will have to go home!!!

 

How will this effect my withdrawals? (plan on staying at .8 mg day divided in three doses of k now, perhaps going back to ashton another time even though k puts me in Hell. Should have stayed on the V I guess but was afraid it was causing my daily fever, now I am thinking all benzos might be doing that) NOT TO MENTION THERE IS STILL V IN MY SYSTEM ON TOP OF ALL OF THIS AS I ONLY SWITCHED A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO! YIKES.

 

After those drugs are administered, do I skip my afternoon dose of K? I am already a zombie. Having switched meds and being in intense withdrawal with severe symptoms like extreme fatigue, agitation, DP/DR. Completely disconnected from the world, fever, feeling horrible, how will I handle that testing? I need it too. I am trying everything to find out what's wrong with me (the physical part). Just saw the GP who told me she has done every workup and everything comes back normal. If you ask me, she has left several stones unturned, but I have been playing a bad game between 2 doctors,  trying to get their help with neither of them knowing. That's the wrong thing to do, but they both have drawbacks.

 

So she said to me today I will order a CT with contrast of your chest, abdomen and pelvis and if that's all normal, I have nothing else I can do for you. She's young enough to be my daughter and I didn't appreciate it.

The other doc is a bit older than me, seems to care and is trying for me. BUT she won't change my records or update my medication list since last year which SUCKS. She has things on there that are inaccurate.  So that sucks too.

 

Anyway, back to advice. So low saturation for whatever reason. And my lung doctor is an ass. Promised to order an overnight oximeter and didn't.  And told me my fever is from medication and PTSD. That is total crap. He is an idiot.

 

So, with low sats  ( I do have a CPAP but need to know if I need oxygen or not!) And with withdrawals WHAT am I going to do about these tests on Thursday?  Bad enough I can't eat and don't eat cuz it hurts, then I have to do the colonoscopy prep all evening. There's not much to get outta me anyway, but hope I can keep hydrated. I am worried. I already feel like a doped up zombie from withdrawals and fever, when I get home I guess my breathing could stop! How do I handle my doses that day?

 

HELP! PLEASE!

 

Thank you.

[[li...]]

Mozart,

 

First of all, I don't have all the answers.

 

Do you actually need Versed (midazolam by injection) ? I understand that particular procedure can be quite uncomfortable. You might want to consider not taking Versed. I don't know how well it would work anyway, given your tolerance.

 

It's a bit of a guess if you should skip your afternoon dose of K. Benzos and opiates (Demerol) can potentiate each other ? Or is that one way only ?

Versed has a short half life. I don't know at what time you get that procedure, but I would suggest skipping the afternoon dose of K if you can handle it. You still have quite a bit of V in your system.

Do you have somebody who can take you home ? Driving under the influence of those drugs may not be the best idea.

 

So, back to your last question: skip the afternoon dose of K ? Let's see what other members think about this.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your issues with those doctors.

Unfortunately, that kind of thing is not uncommon.

[[Mo...]]

I'd take everything I usually would take , my regular doses, my schedule.And consider everything else a one- off for the procedure.

I had a molar extracted and implant surgery about a year ago during the thick of it in my taper and versed was used.

Felt a bit extra groggy but thought it best to just continue as usual , not change anything and calm down from everything after.

Worked for me.

[[be...]]

builder: TY. Yes, I've been keeping a log since I began my micro taper off K. It's good to have because I never know which dose to drop every day. And I also used to to find a pattern with my every now and again bad fatigue days. The pattern I concluded was a fatigue day every 8th day. Now I decided to hold an extra day the fatigue has now gone away, I hope....I guess the  500 ml will last me a loooong time..

 

Mozart: I have had both workups and was asked both times if I wanted to take Versed, and I said no. They use it for pre surgery anxiety and to give you amnesia of the actual surgery. I never got that as how can you remember the surgery is you are out of it, me taking the twilight..The worst part is the night before, when you have to drink a gallon of that stuff. Since you seem to be tolerant to the K, I would just take your regular dose. Anyway, Versed has a very short half life and Benadryl not far behind.  I took one Demerol pill decades ago for a very bad migraine that my dad gave me. I don't know how long the half life is but I slept or a few hours and did not wake up groggy. I just hope you can find the answer. It's been a long hard road for you. Liberty says to drop your pm dose of K so it's really up to you. After the proceders, just come home and go to bed. I hope you have a ride too.

 

Hey Moo: I knew benzos were schedule 4 and pot was schedule 1. I got really pissed about that so I called up the FDA and asked them to change benzos to schedule 1. I also asked why in God's name is pot schedule 1? They said it's not only taken into consideration of possible abuse but also if the drug has any medicinal value. They said pot has no medicinal value? Really? That's what I am not hearing here. And they also said benzos only have a "mild" potential of addiction. I laughed at them so I told them to take a bunch of benzos for a year and then try and C/T off them. Heck, I smoked pot every single day while in college and then just stopped C/T on graduation day and never had a single problem or symptom. Some abuse symptoms.

 

healing: So nice to see that you are nearly at the jump point. I so wish I were in your shoes. But you worked hard to get to this point so that's the least you deserve. I'm so happy that you are doing much better.

 

Mrtmeo: I guess you already got the answer that not all script drugs are controlled substances, like antibiotics...

 

Hey everybody: Have a great day!

Bets

[[ar...]]

Hi All,

 

I just want to check in and say I am doing OK.  I am in a holding pattern for about 7 days and feeling good.  My body told me it needed to catch up.  I will continue daily cut tomorrow.

 

Since benzos are quite common, has anyone considered a bracelet or card for your wallet saying your allergic or sensitive to benzos?  A good example being you get into an accident and you're unconscious.  Any thoughts on this?  My family has brought this up to me several times.

[Guest [Ma...]]

Yes!  I also carry a letter in my purse, or with me when no purse, stating how much I'm on, dosing times and that no changes are to be made. The letter was crafted by my doctor.

 

For me, with my sensitivities, I felt it crucial to have.

 

Marija

[[Mo...]]

Hi All,

 

I just want to check in and say I am doing OK.  I am in a holding pattern for about 7 days and feeling good.  My body told me it needed to catch up.  I will continue daily cut tomorrow.

 

Since benzos are quite common, has anyone considered a bracelet or card for your wallet saying your allergic or sensitive to benzos?  A good example being you get into an accident and you're unconscious.  Any thoughts on this?  My family has brought this up to me several times.

 

I have a note in my Wallet that I cant  take benzos.

I'm not sure though of it the right choice, because what would happen if it's life threatening. Then my doc said they can use other things , since some people are actually allergic to them, so there are other meds available.

 

I'm glad to read you're doing ok ! I did the same through my taper, just hold a bit when I felt I needed to catch up.

[[Mo...]]

builder: TY. Yes, I've been keeping a log since I began my micro taper off K. It's good to have because I never know which dose to drop every day. And I also used to to find a pattern with my every now and again bad fatigue days. The pattern I concluded was a fatigue day every 8th day. Now I decided to hold an extra day the fatigue has now gone away, I hope....I guess the  500 ml will last me a loooong time..

 

Mozart: I have had both workups and was asked both times if I wanted to take Versed, and I said no. They use it for pre surgery anxiety and to give you amnesia of the actual surgery. I never got that as how can you remember the surgery is you are out of it, me taking the twilight..The worst part is the night before, when you have to drink a gallon of that stuff. Since you seem to be tolerant to the K, I would just take your regular dose. Anyway, Versed has a very short half life and Benadryl not far behind.  I took one Demerol pill decades ago for a very bad migraine that my dad gave me. I don't know how long the half life is but I slept or a few hours and did not wake up groggy. I just hope you can find the answer. It's been a long hard road for you. Liberty says to drop your pm dose of K so it's really up to you. After the proceders, just come home and go to bed. I hope you have a ride too.

 

Hey Moo: I knew benzos were schedule 4 and pot was schedule 1. I got really pissed about that so I called up the FDA and asked them to change benzos to schedule 1. I also asked why in God's name is pot schedule 1? They said it's not only taken into consideration of possible abuse but also if the drug has any medicinal value. They said pot has no medicinal value? Really? That's what I am not hearing here. And they also said benzos only have a "mild" potential of addiction. I laughed at them so I told them to take a bunch of benzos for a year and then try and C/T off them. Heck, I smoked pot every single day while in college and then just stopped C/T on graduation day and never had a single problem or symptom. Some abuse symptoms.

 

healing: So nice to see that you are nearly at the jump point. I so wish I were in your shoes. But you worked hard to get to this point so that's the least you deserve. I'm so happy that you are doing much better.

 

Mrtmeo: I guess you already got the answer that not all script drugs are controlled substances, like antibiotics...

 

Hey everybody: Have a great day!

Bets

 

Bets, that's nuts.

If it had no medicinal value, then why do people get their card to get it?

 

How are you doing ?

 

I'm having a rough day so far, it got a bit better in the afternoon but right now I just feel blegh. The dizzy sicks and headache. Going to hang low rest of the day.