Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[ri...]]

 

Mrtmeo: I have to ask, what brand of liquid Valium was your mom taking? I ask this because my stupid insurance company said there is only one brand: Roxanne. They refused to tell me there was another liquid out there but I know there is. They in fact, wanted me to take injections instead. If you can give me the name of the new brand, then I can call them up and force them to look into it. Oh. BTW, you are pretty close to the peak rate of Valium. Genentech told me that taken on an empty stomach, it will be 1:45. On a full stomach: 2:30. I surely hope you mom feels better on the new brand. I hope you feel well too!!!!

 

Bets,

 

I know of a few people who used compounded diazepam and it worked for them but I had read that someone had one of their compounded batches not mixed accurately and that scared me off that path.  The Roxanne brand is pharmaceutical grade and consistant from batch to batch.  There are some choice chemicals and dyes but it works for me and I have no adverse reaction to it.  Everyone is different.

 

River

 

 

[[Mo...]]

willdoit I was up to 2 mg day of K last year. I tried tapering this year and when the shrink c/t the xanax in January it uncovered my tolerance to K. I used them together often. So I don't feel much when I take them. It's like being in tolerance w/d. Sucks.

 

I am taking .8 mg day of K now to equal what ashton taper brought me down to. I am trying to avoid taking a xanax but may have to here and there if it comes down to an emergency.

 

Doc will now try to put me back on V but I just switched yesterday for fear V was causing fevers. Apparently, or maybe not, V wasn't.  I am at 100 fever now as I am daily.

 

I have not had a thorough workup yet to find cause of the medical issues. Fever, white coated tongue, cannot urinate/very very low volume, cannot eat, pain in pelvis, kidneys, bladder and stomach. Something other than benzos is goingon. Scary.

 

I have a family friend who had fevers abd chills among other things. Went undiagnosed. Had a stroke. Then they found blood cancer. She's trying to recover for 4 years now.

[[li...]]

This maybe a little deep for this thread but I feel it is important.

Those who have a CYP450 enzyme deficiency seem to have a difficult time with the drug working and the withdrawals.

I found this study on rats showing that fatty liver can cause a deficiency in the cyp450 enzyme.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3814957/

 

How would you know if you had a fatty liver ?

[[ri...]]

Liberty, they caught mine on a CT with contrast.

[[bu...]]

Mrtmeo: I have to ask, what brand of liquid Valium was your mom taking? I ask this because my stupid insurance company said there is only one brand: Roxanne. They refused to tell me there was another liquid out there but I know there is. They in fact, wanted me to take injections instead. If you can give me the name of the new brand, then I can call them up and force them to look into it. Oh. BTW, you are pretty close to the peak rate of Valium. Genentech told me that taken on an empty stomach, it will be 1:45. On a full stomach: 2:30. I surely hope you mom feels better on the new brand. I hope you feel well too!!!!

 

Hi Bets,

In order to get valium in a form that is not in radiator fluid, you will have to go to a compounding pharmacy.

There are compounding pharmacies every where.

Just have your dr call in your script to the compounding pharmacy to get your valium compounded in almond oil or what ever you want it in.

My mom's current radiator fluid valium is by Roxane.

Over a year ago, there was this discussion of what the liquid valiums were dissolved in and they said glycerin.

I should have checked and saved my mom's kidneys.

  It's glycol (polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol), not glycerin.

[[mr...]]

Mrtmeo: I have to ask, what brand of liquid Valium was your mom taking? I ask this because my stupid insurance company said there is only one brand: Roxanne. They refused to tell me there was another liquid out there but I know there is. They in fact, wanted me to take injections instead. If you can give me the name of the new brand, then I can call them up and force them to look into it. Oh. BTW, you are pretty close to the peak rate of Valium. Genentech told me that taken on an empty stomach, it will be 1:45. On a full stomach: 2:30. I surely hope you mom feels better on the new brand. I hope you feel well too!!!!

 

Hi Bets,

In order to get valium in a form that is not in radiator fluid, you will have to go to a compounding pharmacy.

There are compounding pharmacies every where.

Just have your dr call in your script to the compounding pharmacy to get your valium compounded in almond oil or what ever you want it in.

My mom's current radiator fluid valium is by Roxane.

Over a year ago, there was this discussion of what the liquid valiums were dissolved in and they said glycerin.

I should have checked and saved my mom's kidneys.

  It's glycol (polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol), not glycerin.

 

I remember them saying glycerin, but I may have read the wrong posts.

[[mr...]]

Anyone's appetite go way down once below 1mg valium?

[Guest [wi...]]

Mozart,

 

I'm sorry you're suffering so much.  You are doing what you can to get answers.  If you can, remember catastrophizing is a symptom of withdrawal.  I realize that's easier said than done especially when you feel terrible. 

 

Hoping you get relief soon.

[[be...]]

Mrtmeo:

 

Radiator Fluid? Gads, how terrible. How can they get away with this? The problem I have with compounding pharmacies is 1st, we only have two in our state. The closest one is a three hour drive each way. 2nd I had called them earlier on as I was considering doing compounding for my K. My pdoc is willing to do compounding. He is willing to let me do anything but not taking any injections, which is what my insurance co wants me to do. No way!!!! 3rd. I visited there and it seemed to be a very sloppy place. Very dirty. They also charge a lot for doing this. They quoted me on my K that it would cost $200 for each batch. 4th. Some of my friends did the compounding for V and they all reported that they felt they were going into a C/T. 5th. They have be cited by the State of CT for adding in less than the amount that was asked for. So what the hell do I do?

 

Mozart: I am sorry for your continued problems. Maybe your GYN can find the answer. I hope so. So, you have to go back to K now? What happened to the reverse C/O to Xanax or Ativan? I really hope the K works for you. I became tolerant to it a long time ago. It just wasn't doing anything for me. But I never had withdrawal issues with it. I just tapered down and felt pretty well and still do. The micro taper was the best idea that I think Clona21 and Bennie suggested. You know them, of course. Do you think the K will work the 3rd time around? I do think that you have non benzo related medical problems. So perhaps you will have to add in a mix of xanax? If the K doesn't work for you, and causes you withdrawals, then you might end up taking more Xanax then you want to. You are in quite a pickle, and I don't know the answer for you. Only when you find out what is medically wrong that you will have more options. I hope you can get through this mess. You know, we are all rooting for you.

 

River: Thanks for your input. I think you are using Roxane. Did you know it was radiator fluid when you started using it? Are you doing well on it?

 

builder: I am guess you did not use the liquid but either used milk or vodka. Needed to modify this. I saw from a way earlier post that you were using the Roxane Oral Solution. I guess that works well for you? I still don't know how many ml I need for a 30-day supply, assuming I will be taking 69 mg in pill form and 1 mg in liquid for two weeks and then begin a daily taper of .25 mg each day. How many ml will I need to ask my pdoc to prescribe? Thank you very much.

 

Moo: Can you get a 1:1 ratio? That would make it more simple for me.

 

Boy, now I need help. :'(

[[mr...]]

Mrtmeo:

 

Radiator Fluid? Gads, how terrible. How can they get away with this? The problem I have with compounding pharmacies is 1st, we only have two in our state. The closest one is a three hour drive each way. 2nd I had called them earlier on as I was considering doing compounding for my K. My pdoc is willing to do compounding. He is willing to let me do anything but not taking any injections, which is what my insurance co wants me to do. No way!!!! 3rd. I visited there and it seemed to be a very sloppy place. Very dirty. They also charge a lot for doing this. They quoted me on my K that it would cost $200 for each batch. 4th. Some of my friends did the compounding for V and they all reported that they felt they were going into a C/T. 5th. They have be cited by the State of CT for adding in less than the amount that was asked for. So what the hell do I do?

 

Hi Bets,

you don't have to use liquid but it is easier for some.

I had made a spread sheet for doing titration that is easier to understand, but haven't found anyone to test it.

All you do is put in the size pills your script comes with, add your cut rate, number of doses per day, the dose you are at and the date.

It tells you how many pills to put into how much seltzer or water or milk (whatever you want to mix it with) and how much to remove each day.

If someone wants to try it and see if it is accurate pm me.

[[Mo...]]

Thanks willdoit and bets

 

Bets, I honestly went back to K on my own. I got scared to go to X. It's short-acting and I am not used to .5 mg at a time. I went against what my doctor told me to do. Got scared. Yes, K may work. I am taking 3/4 of a .5 in the morning and a .5 tonight. Does that sound like the right equivalent of where I left off at 18 mg. V a day? Again, my poor CNS.

Yes this is all scary and willdoit you're right. It's very hard to keep calm with withdrawals going on. I may need a .25 xanax just to try to be calmer with the doctor tomorrow. I have been able to avoid it. Just took a 10 mg propranolol today and a 12.5 of benadryl.

 

Ultrasound tomorrow so I can't eat or drink anything past midnight until 12pm tomorrow. Bad. Should have taken the earlier appt.  I am dehydrated with this white "hairy" tongue. That's what the dentist called it.

 

I don't know what the future holds. It looks grim to me. Scared.  I think I may have told you, if I did, sorry to repeat, but friend of the family had similar and mis or undiagnosed similar symptoms. She ended up with a stroke and blood cancer. She does well now but still she gets a bit scared.

 

Going to hopefully see gyn Tuesday. 

 

Thanks for the kind support.

 

Bets am I screwed with benzos the way I have done things? Luckily it's lower doses than ever before right? Does that fact help?

[[bu...]]

 

builder: I am guess you did not use the liquid but either used milk or vodka. Needed to modify this.1)  I saw from a way earlier post that you were using the Roxane Oral Solution. I guess that works well for you? 2)  I still don't know how many ml I need for a 30-day supply, assuming I will be taking 69 mg in pill form and 1 mg in liquid for two weeks and then begin a daily taper of .25 mg each day. How many ml will I need to ask my pdoc to prescribe? Thank you very much.

 

 

 

1)  I used Roxane Diazepam Oral Solution (5mg=5ml) from the beginning.

 

2)  You really need to prepare a plan/spread sheet in the format I have shown you several times.  Tablet dose in one column, liquid dose in the next column, and total dose in the third column.  Then you will clearly see what your liquid needs will be.  This is also an excellent way to  keep track of your daily doses, and a convenient place to record anything important like sxs, live events, etc.ta

BTW, my doc just gave me scrips for 500ml (mfgr's standard pak) and 1 refill ( total of 1000 mg) plus my necessary tablets.

[[bu...]]

Mrtmeo: I have to ask, what brand of liquid Valium was your mom taking? I ask this because my stupid insurance company said there is only one brand: Roxanne. They refused to tell me there was another liquid out there but I know there is. They in fact, wanted me to take injections instead. If you can give me the name of the new brand, then I can call them up and force them to look into it. Oh. BTW, you are pretty close to the peak rate of Valium. Genentech told me that taken on an empty stomach, it will be 1:45. On a full stomach: 2:30. I surely hope you mom feels better on the new brand. I hope you feel well too!!!!

 

Hi Bets,

In order to get valium in a form that is not in radiator fluid, you will have to go to a compounding pharmacy.

There are compounding pharmacies every where.

Just have your dr call in your script to the compounding pharmacy to get your valium compounded in almond oil or what ever you want it in.

My mom's current radiator fluid valium is by Roxane.

Over a year ago, there was this discussion of what the liquid valiums were dissolved in and they said glycerin.

I should have checked and saved my mom's kidneys.

  It's glycol (polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol), not glycerin.

 

I remember them saying glycerin, but I may have read the wrong posts.

Google is your friend. 

 

Inactive Ingredients

Ingredient Name Strength

ANHYDROUS CITRIC ACID (UNII: XF417D3PSL)

D&C YELLOW NO. 10 (UNII: 35SW5USQ3G)

FD&C RED NO. 40 (UNII: WZB9127XOA)

POLYETHYLENE GLYCOL 1000 (UNII: U076Q6Q621)

PROPYLENE GLYCOL (UNII: 6DC9Q167V3)

SODIUM CITRATE (UNII: 1Q73Q2JULR)

SORBITOL (UNII: 506T60A25R)

WATER (UNII: 059QF0KO0R)

http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=1aaf9375-ae3d-4fed-9cd1-24102e00be1a

 

 

[[mr...]]

Builder, I did a google and I do know how to do a search, that is why I found out it was pg instead of vg.

I never had thought about doing the search on my mom's product 2 years ago when some people on here mentioned that liquid valium was made with glycerin.

Yes, I should have checked the manufacturer back then, but my mom didn't have kidney failure then and I thought most were made with glycerin based on what others were saying.

 

[[bu...]]

 

 

Radiator Fluid? Gads, how terrible. How can they get away with this? The problem I have with compounding pharmacies is 1st, we only have two in our state. The closest one is a three hour drive each way. 2nd I had called them earlier on as I was considering doing compounding for my K. My pdoc is willing to do compounding. He is willing to let me do anything but not taking any injections, which is what my insurance co wants me to do. No way!!!! 3rd. I visited there and it seemed to be a very sloppy place. Very dirty. They also charge a lot for doing this. They quoted me on my K that it would cost $200 for each batch. 4th. Some of my friends did the compounding for V and they all reported that they felt they were going into a C/T. 5th. They have be cited by the State of CT for adding in less than the amount that was asked for. So what the hell do I do?

 

 

Hundreds of food products, both plant and animal, are also used in industrial products.  Soy beans, for example, are used in hundreds of industrial products, including many  plastics.  And hundreds of perfectly safe, palatable food/pharmaceutical additives (glycols, for example) are also used in industrial products.  Just because a product is used in an industrial application does not mean its not appropriate consumption.

 

Glycol and alcohol are probably the 2 most commonly used solvents for liquid meds, both Rx and OTC.

[[ri...]]

 

 

 

River: Thanks for your input. I think you are using Roxane. Did you know it was radiator fluid when you started using it? Are you doing well on it?

 

Yes I use Roxane and am doing fine on it.  I was prescribed the exact amount builder was.

 

[[mr...]]

Propylene glycol toxicity: a severe iatrogenic illness in ICU patients receiving IV benzodiazepines: a case series and prospective, observational pilot study.

Propylene glycol toxicity is a potentially life-threatening iatrogenic complication that is common and preventable. It should be considered whenever a patient has an unexplained anion gap, unexplained metabolic acidosis, hyperosmolality, and/or clinical deterioration. Close monitoring of all patients receiving IV lorazepam or diazepam for early evidence of propylene glycol toxicity is warranted.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16162774

 

[[bu...]]

Propylene glycol toxicity: a severe iatrogenic illness in ICU patients receiving IV benzodiazepines: a case series and prospective, observational pilot study.

Propylene glycol toxicity is a potentially life-threatening iatrogenic complication that is common and preventable. It should be considered whenever a patient has an unexplained anion gap, unexplained metabolic acidosis, hyperosmolality, and/or clinical deterioration. Close monitoring of all patients receiving IV lorazepam or diazepam for early evidence of propylene glycol toxicity is warranted.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16162774

[[bu...]]

 

 

 

 

Moo: Can you get a 1:1 ratio? That would make it more simple for me.

 

Boy, now I need help. :'(

 

5:5 is the same as 1:1.  The so-called 5mg=5ml solution obviously has 1mg in each ml...it is 1:1.

[[Mo...]]

 

 

 

 

Moo: Can you get a 1:1 ratio? That would make it more simple for me.

 

Boy, now I need help. :'(

 

5:5 is the same as 1:1.  The so-called 5mg=5ml solution obviously has 1mg in each ml...it is 1:1.

 

 

This would work just fine, Betsy.

Many people do great on Roxane ( thanks Builder for the correct spelling ) .

I preferred the compound , it's just another option, is all. It's not like mine is healthier , benzo wise

But yes, your compound pharmacy can make you any ratio you ask your doc for...

 

[[be...]]

Thanks to all of you for your replies.

 

builder: I wish I knew how to use a spreadsheet, like Excel. What I have been doing is keeping a log of the date and the dose I want to cut that day. Did you hold for two weeks before doing the liquid? If so, that would mean 500 ml is enough, right? How long did that last? 30-days? Yes, after I got off this board I did two things. I researched the ingredients and it seems like it is used for many thing, like manufacturing and medicines as well. But it did say you need to get your blood count and you liver checked out. My pdoc doesn't even own a lab script, so I doubt he will do this for me. But I bet my endo will do it for me. 2nd, I have a friend who has a PhD is something that includes plastics and I called her and she said it was fine. I just want to make sure I have enough liquid, to include those two hold weeks. Thank you for taking the time to explain things for me. I've printed out every reply you made to me, and make sure to bring them to my pdoc so he can verify what you said. He always does. He thinks you are a doctor or a scientist. I told him I don't know what you do for a living.

 

Mozart: Oh, OK. Back to the K again. Well, yes I can't avoid saying that your CNS is very confused by your recent actions of switching back and forth a lot. But that does not mean you will not heal. You will. You have to believe in that. It's just that you are in a frantic state because you have seen so many doctors and nobody knows what is wrong with you. That would scare me too. Also, I think it is good that you managed to get down to the dose you were on. That took courage. Of course you would get pretty knocked about if you switched from Valium to Xanax. Xanax is very potent. But I think if you split the Xanax to four or five times a day, you wouldn't feel that way. You would be taking a lesser amount each time. And it is so short acting, that you will need to dose that many times anyway. Yes, if you are taking 3/4 a .5 mg pill and a  .5 mg pill at night, that seems pretty close to 18 mg of V. But I haven't done the math. This is in my head. I think it will be a little less than 18 mg, probably just 17 mg. I know when one is tapering and runs into troubles like you have, you begin to get very worried (naturally) but you have to make sure you don't get over obsessed about it. That will make your w/d much harder than it needs to be. I guess this will be a repeat from me and many others here: Find your benzo, find your dose, and stick with it!!

 

Moo: Thanks for pitching in with your advice. I hope all is well in tulip land.

 

Meo: I thank you for the links. I will look at them carefully. You are a good friend to be concerned about this matter. You are truly an asset to this forum. And this site, of course. :smitten: Just an update. I printed out your links and will bring them to my pdoc when I see him next week. I still have a bit of K to get rid of. He is very good about deciphering these studies.

 

River: Also thanks for your input. 

 

Tex: Sorry I didn't  get back to you sooner. That's really great that you daughter is studying in Europe. I had the chance, but alas, not the money. Which country? She is coming home soon, so that's good. Texas is so big that those in Texas think "everything is just down the road." I say this because I once had to interview someone in Texas and asked what hotel would be the best one to stay in. He told me the name of it and said, It's just down the road from me. After a 70 mile drive, I finally got there, but late. 70 miles is down the road? Here in CT it is such a small state the just down the road mean about 2 miles. I'm glad you were able to take care of her doggies. I'm sure they were in fine hands.

 

I hope everybody has a good day!!!!

Bets

[[he...]]

I am finally down to 1.25 mg of V per night, solidly, for over a week. Feeling pretty stable sleepwise.

 

A great thing to report is that my dry and white flaky skin has been getting noticeably better. It is still dry, but not to the point of constant flakiness. Yesterday for the first time in years it seemed like I had normal skin again. 

 

A huge help has been ARGAN OIL. it's kind of expensive (like $27 for 2 oz), but you dont need much. I was putting it on twice a day, after exfoliating and washing my face with warm (not hot) water. The oil was initially just sucked up by the dryness but now with the V so much less in my system it is really helping.  Another thing I started recently is ASTAXANTHIN, a powerful antioxidant that has skin benefits from the inside.

 

But I know mainly it is due to the dose of V being so low now that this side effect is being minimized. And that makes me so glad and helps me see the light at the end of the tunnel overall.

[[Mo...]]

I am finally down to 1.25 mg of V per night, solidly, for over a week. Feeling pretty stable sleepwise.

 

A great thing to report is that my dry and white flaky skin has been getting noticeably better. It is still dry, but not to the point of constant flakiness. Yesterday for the first time in years it seemed like I had normal skin again. 

 

A huge help has been ARGAN OIL. it's kind of expensive (like $27 for 2 oz), but you dont need much. I was putting it on twice a day, after exfoliating and washing my face with warm (not hot) water. The oil was initially just sucked up by the dryness but now with the V so much less in my system it is really helping.  Another thing I started recently is ASTAXANTHIN, a powerful antioxidant that has skin benefits from the inside.

 

But I know mainly it is due to the dose of V being so low now that this side effect is being minimized. And that makes me so glad and helps me see the light at the end of the tunnel overall.

 

That's great news Healing63!

I also notice less dryness on lower doses. Now for the rest of it !

[[bu...]]

Thanks to all of you for your replies.

 

builder: I wish I knew how to use a spreadsheet, like Excel. What I have been doing is keeping a log of the date and the dose I want to cut that day. Did you hold for two weeks before doing the liquid? If so, that would mean 500 ml is enough, right? How long did that last? 30-days? Yes, after I got off this board I did two things. I researched the ingredients and it seems like it is used for many thing, like manufacturing and medicines as well. But it did say you need to get your blood count and you liver checked out. My pdoc doesn't even own a lab script, so I doubt he will do this for me. But I bet my endo will do it for me. 2nd, I have a friend who has a PhD is something that includes plastics and I called her and she said it was fine. I just want to make sure I have enough liquid, to include those two hold weeks. Thank you for taking the time to explain things for me. I've printed out every reply you made to me, and make sure to bring them to my pdoc so he can verify what you said. He always does. He thinks you are a doctor or a scientist. I told him I don't know what you do for a living.

 

 

Bets

  Bets-

 

You will NEVER have to take more than 1-2ml/mg of liquid V per day.  If your starting at 70 mg, and take 69mg by tablet, then obviously you will not need to take more than 1ml/mg per day.  So if you hold your current dose (70mg) for 15 days, and take 69mg by tablets, you will need 15ml/mg for that 15 days. 

 

And when you start your taper, if you cut .25mg/day, then your  dose will be 69 + .75, .50, .25, 0, then 68 + .75, .50, .25, 0, etc.  So your liquid requirement will be .75, .50, .25, 0.  If you sum those numbers, it's 1.5ml/mg every 4 days,  or 11.25mg/ml per month.  Allowing for spillage, errors, etc, you might need 15mg/ml per month to taper. 

You never need to take more than 1ml/mg liquid per day!!!  And your average use is actually about .5mg/ml per day.

 

And since your liquid dose is so small, (1ml is .2 (2/10ths) of a teaspoon) I can't imagine why anyone would be concerned about what solvent (glycol) is used.  2/10ths tsp is not going to affect you.  Even if you took 2ml/mg per day, that's less than 1/2 tsp.  Folks in hospital and geriatric settings commonly take 5-10mg/ml per day.  I have never seen any evidence, zero, none, nada, that anyone every suffered any physical damage using liquid V to taper.

 

And 500 ml should last you several years. 

 

If you don't know how to do a software spreadsheet, its easy to prepare your plan by hand.  IMO, having a written plan to guide you, track your doses, and track your feelings, sxs, etc. is a very important part of daily tapeing.

[[bu...]]

I know of a few people who used compounded diazepam and it worked for them but I had read that someone had one of their compounded batches not mixed accurately and that scared me off that path.  The Roxanne brand is pharmaceutical grade and consistant from batch to batch.  There are some choice chemicals and dyes but it works for me and I have no adverse reaction to it.  Everyone is different.

 

River

 

I absolutely agree with River.  While I'm sure most compounding pharmacies are capable and conscientious, mixing custom benzos is not a routine part of their operation.  And they are not subject to the level of scrutiny  and compliance that controls the pharma mfgr industry.

 

Liquid V is a mainline product to Roxane Labs, they have produced it (and other liquid benzos) for many years, and have produced probably thousands of gallons of it, apparently with no negative outcomes.

 

As are all pharma mfgrs, they must meet strict FDA requirements, and both their facilities and their products are requlary monitored by the FDA.

 

I'm not knocking compounding pharmacies and their products, but given a choice, a proven, standard product from a reliable mfgr would always be my first choice.