Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[li...]]

After reading so many others tapers, it appears that going below .3mg valium causes most to have to slow down their taper.

I found this to be very true with my mom's taper.

It does follow that once below .30mg valium that even with an 18 day hold, our blood levels will be under the 2mg lowest effective dose.

It seems I can't taper my mom faster than 10% per month without more, longer lasting symptoms.

 

Stuff like that 'scares' me. Makes me want to avoid that switch to diazepam. 0.3 mg ?

[[li...]]

I have a very simple question that most likely is not that simple to answer:

 

I noticed that the evening diazepam dose is a lot less sedating than the daytime dose. In a way, it should be the other way. For practical reasons, if nothing else.

 

Has anyone else noticed something like that ?

 

[[Mo...]]

I have to switch directly from Valium 18 mg day to xanax or ativan, I have both immediately today. Allergic immune reaction to Valium. What's the safest way to do this? It's not that I have a choice, I don't.  Thank you for any help.

[[Mo...]]

I have a very simple question that most likely is not that simple to answer:

 

I noticed that the evening diazepam dose is a lot less sedating than the daytime dose. In a way, it should be the other way. For practical reasons, if nothing else.

 

Has anyone else noticed something like that ?

 

I did notice that during my taper. I'd feel real sluggish after dosing during the day and in the evening I couldn't sleep.

It never helped me sleep, this stuff.

I don't have an answer as to why this occurs but it was the same for me.

[[Mo...]]

After reading so many others tapers, it appears that going below .3mg valium causes most to have to slow down their taper.

I found this to be very true with my mom's taper.

It does follow that once below .30mg valium that even with an 18 day hold, our blood levels will be under the 2mg lowest effective dose.

It seems I can't taper my mom faster than 10% per month without more, longer lasting symptoms.

 

Stuff like that 'scares' me. Makes me want to avoid that switch to diazepam. 0.3 mg ?

 

Why? I'm tapering still and will just slow taper all the way down to 0.

The percentage still counts so makes sense to me that you cut lower as you get lower.

There is no way I could jump off 0.3 . My little cuts now I do notice them.

If this was Ativan it would be 0.03 mgr. that would have been A dose I'd jump from, though.

But they work differently. Can't compare, IMO.

 

[[Ar...]]

I like reading everyone's posts Benzogirl but feel as if I am too late.  I am 2 months out and feel like Ive been feeling this way for a long long time. I am wondering if reducing the Trazodone at the same time is making me worse.  I have gone up and down on the Trazodone for a long time, but was taking the Valium at the same time. I had no symptoms reducing it then, so thought I shouldn't now.

 

After I detoxed the Valium CT, the Trazodone had some wicked side effects taking it alone for some reason. Hadn't felt at all this way in all the years I took it.  So I had to reduce to get to a normal level.  My doc up dosed me from 200 to 450mg because my mom passed away and living with me for 5 years and I was depressed. I dont know why, but 450 mg with Valium was ok but without Valium I feel out of it. 

 

I hate to wish my life away but I sure wish I could fast forward a year!!  This Sucks

[[Mo...]]

My noodle:

 

You are a very brave gal for cutting while on vacation. I so admire you for this. Sorry you have had you butt kicked. But you keep on moving, just like Grinch did. If it were me, I'd make sure I have very few symtoms before cutting again. Well, that's just me. I suspect the troubles might come to and end. Maybe you'll get off free in post taper. Wouldn't that be just wonderful? I know all about getting adapted to foods you haven't eaten in a long while. Same thing happened to me when my Polish grandmom took over the cooking details when mom had five kids in a row. I think the same holds true for benzos. That's why once I am rid of this crap I never plan to take one again. I just know my mind will quickly remember them. I decided to hold for three days instead of just two. I am waiting to see if my bad fatigue days go away. I really hate to hold, as I sooooooooooooo much want off this junk. You better stay here when you jump, lady! This place would not be the same if you were to leave. That would force me into holding funeral services for you. I hope your trip sound as good as you say. There is one poster on withdrawal who is contemplating whether to go on vacation or not. If you get a chance, you might want to respond to him. He can get it straight from the horse's mouth.

 

:hug:

Bets

 

Well, it's not like I'm staying in a hotel and sightseeing and traveling around. I'm at my parents house and just taking it real easy. Trying to, at least . My mom drives us and all the shops are at walking distance. A two minute walk to the bakery and stuff. So it's all manageable when it comes to that.

I do notice I'm not used to having people around me anymore and that I get over stimulated quickly.

I take little breaks and go upstairs to be on my own every now and then.

 

Good idea on the trying something else to see if your fatigue goes away. It's seems to be bad for you .where you really can sleep and sleep. Not that sleep is bad . At all! But I can imagine it's no fun if it happens when you don't want it.

 

Yes, I don't plan to go away after I jump. No need for a funeral, please .

 

Haven't looked on the withdrawal boards but will go take a look. Good morning to you all. I'm going to have dinner first !

[[or...]]

Mozart here is Ashton's benzo equivalency table:

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

 

You can use it to figure out the equivalent Xanax or Ativan dose you will need for 18 mgs of valium. I do not know anything about engineering a "reverse crossover" or doing a direct substitution.

 

Maybe someone who does will chime in.

 

 

[[Mo...]]

Thank you okatz. It is already proving very rough. Here is a better, clearer post I posted on a couple other threads for help in this matter:

 

Unfortunately I am tolerant on top of it all. Allergic systemic reaction to Valium. Been stable on taper but sicker every day from V. Went to Xanax this morning took .25 then another half of a .25. and just took .25 mg Klonopin. I was down to 8 mg V mornings and 10 mg night. Tried to find equivalent. Already having a rough w/d right away. Have to get V out of my system. I wish I could cold turkey. I may get simular immune response to all benzos after so very many years on them for all I know, but have to first get V out of me. Had to go straight across without c/o. 

 

 

[[st...]]

I have to switch directly from Valium 18 mg day to xanax or ativan, I have both immediately today. Allergic immune reaction to Valium. What's the safest way to do this? It's not that I have a choice, I don't.  Thank you for any help.

 

Hi Mozart,

 

Are you certain it's the valium itself and not a filler?

 

This has come up before, here:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=59931.0

 

Steve

[[Mo...]]

Thanks Steve. He was itching from it huh. I have had a fever for 2 months. Driving me crazy not knowing its source. If it's drug fevervor not. I am originally from ny btw

[[be...]]

Mozart:

 

I think once you are stable on your reverse C/O you might want to dose more times a day. I'm sorry the Valium did not work for you.

 

Arianna:

 

I sorry you did not find us sooner. At least I hopped on and googled anything that came to mind re benzos. That's how I found this site. I don't know what to tell you about the Traz, since I am on both Valium and Traz. I think there may be one thing to consider. Since you are off benzos, many times your brain becomes sensitized to drugs when it hasn't before. Two months is not a long time being off, so maybe your CNS is still hay wired. I hope it works out for you.

 

Hey my moo:

 

I guess staying with family and not at a hotel is a far better choice, tho sometimes for me when I travel I want peace and quiet after a hard day's work, so I often order room service. But I see you can't get away from the noise there, unless you hole up in some room and close the door. I hope your son isn't blasting video games right next to your ear. I'm glad you don't need a funeral. I would have to go with paypal to do one. Or GoFundMe. I often wonder about that site. My niece used it to get vet bills paid and donations came pouring in.  I bet you are Zzzing now.

Bets

[[Mo...]]

Thanks Bets 

 

I can't figure out what to do. It's driving me mad. Psycho.

 

This morning I was afraid to take Mr. V. So I did a crazy thing. Instead of the V, I took .25 Xanax, then a bit later a half of another .25 Xanax then a bit later a .25 Klonopin. Obviously V is still in my system, so I have been very f**ked up today. Spacy, doped up, a real mess, with anxiety and agitation below the surface. Breathing is shallow. Btw, my sats were only 92 at doc on Thursday. Crap. They claim normal is 90 to 100 at my lung doc. Ahem..no. He's the moron that also said my fever, which was 100.5 at his office, was from medication and PTSD!!! Did you ever?

 

I digress. So I do not know what on Earth to do for tonight's dose. I am STILL doped up. And there's no c/o going on. Straight over again to what though? My poor CNS.

 

What did I take? The equivalent of about 12.5 V today right? Yikes. So I am thinking to just take .25 K tonight and be done with it. No one can source the fever and it needs to be sussed out. Urologist said that I need to know. GI doc too. No one will admit me to hospital though. Feeling unsafe at home so ill while having w/d on top of it all.

 

As Bets knows I don't tolerate K. But my pdoc said to try .5 Xanax every 8 hours  for 2-3 days to see if fever subsides. I can't tolerate that dose of Xanax, only ever took .25. Although I didn't feel that dose much this morning, hence adding the rest. Overdid it. Plus is 3 days enough to know? Fever may persist.

 

So my choice is, do what he says (again my poor CNS), go back to .5 K twice a day..ugh..or stay on V with months of fever if it is the cause. It may not be the cause but I am so ill I am desperate to find out. Now I have a white coating on my tongue for days. Not thrush because it won't come off. No one is finding fever cause and the only way to know if it's V is to quit V cold, go to K (horrible choice) go to X (another bad choice, who goes from long-acting to short-acting? Ever hear of this?) Or use a little X in between the K to be able to survive it. ALL bad choices. Tonight I have a dose of something due (even though I am overly drugged still). What will it be? I have a terrible conundrum.

[Guest [wi...]]

Mozart,

 

I usually don't post though this time thought I'd respond since I've experienced many of the same physical symptoms as you.  Three years ago, I had a fever for several months.  It was scary.  No one could figure it out, I had all sorts of unnecessary tests.  It was the benzo.  I was in tolerance withdrawal.  During my taper I've had rashes, edema, severe flank pain mimicking a kidney stone, days of severely low blood pressure, and high blood pressure, all side effects of withdrawal.  The rashes are worse in the heat.  I sometimes use calamine for them if they are terribly annoying.  I'm able to ignore them for the most part because I know they are signs of healing.  GABA is everywhere. 

 

It looks like people here are offering you wonderful support and good advice.  In looking back at your posts it looks like it's been a bumpy ride from the start.  I hope you are able to find an adequate dose of a benzo from which you can taper very slowly and safely.  I'm sure I speak for many when I say we look forward to seeing you find some stability.  Take care.  : )

 

[[mr...]]

Mrtmeo:

 

I hope you can get rid of the rest of  your mom's benzo with little trouble. I haven't been there yet, but I do hear the last few crumbs can be difficult. That, I am not looking forward too. I hope you have a very nice weekend.

 

 

Hi Bets,

It's not as bad as you think, but when you have spent years on this like I have, every symptom return feels like a failure.

When you get this low, you may find it is much easier, depending on if you taper long enuf for your system to heal.

I just found out my mom's liquid valium has PG(Propylene Glycol) in it.

I thought it had glycerin.

PG is damaging to the kidneys, so I called her shrink to get a compounded valium in almond oil.

I should have done that last year when I noticed it made her sick, but things got really ugly and forgot about it.

[[mr...]]

After reading so many others tapers, it appears that going below .3mg valium causes most to have to slow down their taper.

I found this to be very true with my mom's taper.

It does follow that once below .30mg valium that even with an 18 day hold, our blood levels will be under the 2mg lowest effective dose.

It seems I can't taper my mom faster than 10% per month without more, longer lasting symptoms.

 

Stuff like that 'scares' me. Makes me want to avoid that switch to diazepam. 0.3 mg ?

Hi Liberty,

Yes .30mg.

Don't let it scare you.

I am just complaining because my mom was doing really well and then, bang, some of the old really bothersome symptoms came back.

I knew it was bound to happen, but it just sucks.

They could be short lasting, but I expect at least a few months after she is off valium for them to start leaving for good!

[[mr...]]

I have a very simple question that most likely is not that simple to answer:

 

I noticed that the evening diazepam dose is a lot less sedating than the daytime dose. In a way, it should be the other way. For practical reasons, if nothing else.

 

Has anyone else noticed something like that ?

 

I believe this might have to do with when you took your original benzo.

For example, my mom used to take her ativan in the mornings but now, she takes her valium before bed.

By the time the valium's effects begin to wear off around 5pm, she gets most of her symptoms, but by bed time, she gets her next dose and eventually falls asleep.

When I had her on a split dose of valium, once in the morning and once before bed, she slept more in the afternoons and stayed up late at night.

I believe the peak time after a valium dose is 2 hours, so that is when you should feel the best.

[[Mo...]]

willdoit did you stay on the offending benzo for your taper and did you taper with the fever?  How high was your fever?  My symptoms have been horrific. Daily fever of 99.5 to 101, flanks pain, lost 17 pounds in two weeks because I can't eat (my stomach hurts, tender and painful in abdomen), freezing on hot days, burning up, etc.  Fever peaks in midday or not too long after awakening. I have been to the ER countless times where they now think I am a nut.  I begged them to admit me as I've been that sick. I have been to doctors almost daily.  Blood cultures 4 times, looking and feeling very flu like and sick, peeing tiny amounts frequently (very low volume and weak urges).  Had blood tests, xray, CT scan, going Monday for ultrasound and more. Now my tongue has a white coating.  You didn't have all that did you?  To me, there is something serious going on. But if you actually had all of the aforementioned things, I would be shocked.  Every bit of my torso from the stomach down to the pelvis really hurts. Let me know please. Thank you.  Thank you for the reply.  I'd like to know how you were able to taper with fever, etc.  I am surprised.

[[li...]]

Mozart,

 

Have you considered the possibility that perhaps diazepam itself is not the problem, but whatever else is in the tablet ?

Has the same thing happened with different generics/brands ?

 

I really don't know much about Xanax. It seems lorazepam is a but longer acting than Xanax.

 

[[Te...]]

I have a very simple question that most likely is not that simple to answer:

 

I noticed that the evening diazepam dose is a lot less sedating than the daytime dose. In a way, it should be the other way. For practical reasons, if nothing else.

 

Has anyone else noticed something like that ?

 

I believe this might have to do with when you took your original benzo.

For example, my mom used to take her ativan in the mornings but now, she takes her valium before bed.

By the time the valium's effects begin to wear off around 5pm, she gets most of her symptoms, but by bed time, she gets her next dose and eventually falls asleep.

When I had her on a split dose of valium, once in the morning and once before bed, she slept more in the afternoons and stayed up late at night.

I believe the peak time after a valium dose is 2 hours, so that is when you should feel the best.

 

mrtmeo

I found your post very helpful,  I tried to split my 2.5 mg Valium in 5 parts,  Like used to do with Ativan, 1.0 mg Ativan in 4 parts.

but I didn't have good results,  yesterday I felt very bad all day,  I going back to my 1mg V  in the morning, 1 mg around noon, and 0.5  mg before bed.  I don't sleep well I wake up at 4 am, but stay in bed until 6:30 am,  then I start feeling the worst.  I just took a 1 mg V. I will wait 2 hours to see how I feel. 

 

Thanks

 

Tex 

 

[[be...]]

Hi Mozart:

 

 

Things seem to be just getting worse for you. :'( I'm sorry all of this is happening. I want to ask you, are you taking the Mylan generic brand of Valium? If so, that manufacturer has been in trouble with the FDA. Teva is best, IMO. I have been taking it all along and feel fine on it. You can special order it from your pharmacy. What did you end up doing last night? I think Kazt gave you the link to the conversation rate. I did so myself and I knew it all along anyway but 1 mg of K = 20 mg of Valium. 1 mg of Ativan equals 10 mg of Valium. No, pls don't go back on Klonopin. You cannot tolerate it and it stopped working for you a while ago. So you will be just getting sick and have no effect from a benzo. I think the question posted by I think Liberty and someone else should give you food for thought. Perhaps it is not the Valium, but the fillers. I have seen this posted before many times. Then that person switches to a different brand and they do OK on it. What to do about that fever of yours? Well, I frankly have to say that I am stumped. Unless it a s/x from Valium. If you have a choice of either Ativan or Xanax, well, that's up to you. I have taken Xanax in the past for years and years and got very bad I/D w/d. I have never read anything here nice about Ativan. So it's into the fireplace from the boiling pot. So it's no wonder you are at odds what to do. But I would steer very clear of any klonopin. I must tell you: It will not work for you. So if your doc suggested .5 mg twice a day, they maybe you should listen to him. That equals 20 mg of Valium, not so far off from the 18 you are already taking. Of course you will feel sedated at first, because you still have Valium in your system. But I bet after a while, you will need to dose more than twice a day. I can't wait until tomorrow to see what you doctor says. I hope he/she is a good one. Try and not over worry, dear. Things will be figured out. Another reminder: no more Librium.

 

Mrtmeo: I have to ask, what brand of liquid Valium was your mom taking? I ask this because my stupid insurance company said there is only one brand: Roxanne. They refused to tell me there was another liquid out there but I know there is. They in fact, wanted me to take injections instead. If you can give me the name of the new brand, then I can call them up and force them to look into it. Oh. BTW, you are pretty close to the peak rate of Valium. Genentech told me that taken on an empty stomach, it will be 1:45. On a full stomach: 2:30. I surely hope you mom feels better on the new brand. I hope you feel well too!!!!

 

Liberty: I forgot earlier on what I experiences I have on Valium. When I take it in the am, I go back to sleep. When I take it at night, it does nothing to help me sleep. Nothing. So I am dosing 10 mg in the am now, and 30 mg at night. It still doesn't help me sleep. I think once reason is when you wake up in the morning, you just want to roll over and go back to sleep. I think your brain is half asleep when you wake up. So when you take the am dose, it kicks in and puts you back to sleep. But at night, when most of us feel better, then we are wide awake. K was a real kicker for me at bed. Valium is like taking candy at night.

 

Arianna: I will be thinking of you in your time of trouble. I think the best thing you can do, if able, is quality sleep, eat right, have a positive mindset and exercise. Some find meditation to work very well. I doesn't work for me. My mind races too much. Yoga is also an option.

 

Texas: How are you doing, buddy? And your daughter's animals? I hope you can have a good day.

 

((((((My doodle noodle moodle?))))))

 

I hope I didn't miss anyone and wish every V-er a great day!

:smitten:

Bets

[[Mo...]]

Bets and everyone I had to unfortunately go back to klonopin.  This time I may have to supplement with xanax between.  Yes only Teva. Pharmacy having trouble getting it. Last night I took .25 Klonooin because I took larger doses in the daytime of xanax with a .25 klonopin. I have no choice. Allergic reaction to Librium.

Es there's something seriously wrong. I have no pee in my bladder when I try. Weeks now. I am sure you read my plethora of symptoms.  Can't eat, etc. Fearing cancer. I have pain all through from stomach to pelvis. Very ill.

ER docs have dismissed me a lot. ID doctor ruined things for me. Didn't pursue anything. I wish I has never told him about benzos or PTSD. His whole demeanor changed,  told me my thermometer was inaccurate (it's not) and chalked it all up to PTSD and med changes. His chart notes ruined my kife. In that entire medical group all my doctors and the ER (both) can see his notes and he made it so they all dismiss me.

 

Saw urologist yesterday. Need my GYN. There is some kind of blockage. Something quite wrong. Kidnets, ovary, bladder, gut. Don't know.

 

Scared. Sick. Valium was also making me sick. But please pray that by some miracle Klonopin will be ok with a little Xanax. Not what I wanted but can't help it.

 

You all take care.

[[Mo...]]

Hey Bets,

For as far as I know there IS just one liquid Valium. But you can have a compound pharmacy make your liquid for you, that's what I did.

 

It's cold here! I needed a coat today and socks. Gosh, do I hate wearing socks.

The time difference makes it so that everyone is sleeping while I'm up right now. 

[[bu...]]

 

 

 

Mrtmeo: I have to ask, what brand of liquid Valium was your mom taking? I ask this because my stupid insurance company said there is only one brand: Roxanne. They refused to tell me there was another liquid out there but I know there is. They in fact, wanted me to take injections instead. If you can give me the name of the new brand, then I can call them up and force them to look into it. Oh. BTW, you are pretty close to the peak rate of Valium. Genentech told me that taken on an empty stomach, it will be 1:45. On a full stomach: 2:30. I surely hope you mom feels better on the new brand. I hope you feel well too!!!!

 

 

:smitten:

Bets)

In the US there is only one mfgr of liquid V-Roxane.  (note the correct spelling)

[[mr...]]

mrtmeo

I found your post very helpful,  I tried to split my 2.5 mg Valium in 5 parts,  Like used to do with Ativan, 1.0 mg Ativan in 4 parts.

but I didn't have good results,  yesterday I felt very bad all day,  I going back to my 1mg V  in the morning, 1 mg around noon, and 0.5  mg before bed.  I don't sleep well I wake up at 4 am, but stay in bed until 6:30 am,  then I start feeling the worst.  I just took a 1 mg V. I will wait 2 hours to see how I feel. 

 

Thanks

Tex 

 

Hi tex,

I tried my mom on 3 doses of v per day and it didn't work well, so I went back to twice per day.

When she was in the hospital, I had to switch her dose to once per day, at night because the nurses can't get the times right and their pharmacy takes forever to get the script to the nurses.

Everyone is different, but there is a reason Dr Ashton made the tapers keep the night time dose more important.

Sleep is absolutely necessary for the whole body to heal, so keeping the sleep going by taking the highest dose at night worked best for  Ashton.

When my mom  was at her worst, 2 doses per day worked better than one, but everyone is different.