Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[st...]]

 

Hey Steve,

I agree with Katz... About the not up dosing. It doesn't work for everyone and I'd hate to see you on a higher dose and it not being the way for you..

Some days I had such sore and painful muscles, it was even hurting when I had to open some groceries or using scissors ( Thai wasn't the tendonistis we spoke about , btw ).

My joints hurt real bad at times, I walked around like an 80 year old.

I have done holds. But I think no longer than a week or two for my longest . And it usually did the trick.

 

I'm guessing your carpal tunnel would be exaggerated by the taper. And I think it could be worth waiting a few weeks instead of up dosing, which would take you months , maybe ?

 

Yes, wait for the EMG. When is that taking place ?

 

I've had surgery during my taper, too. Other than feeling groggy , it went okay.

 

I'm sorry you hit this spot. It's difficult to decide, isn't it?

 

H4H 

 

Hey Thanks Moo,

 

I just wish I'd been more in tune when I first began to get hand pain 2 months ago. BUT I did go to hand specialists (4) and only yesterday did one think it was carpal tunnel. And no EMG yet. Haven't scheduled one yet. Will be doing that shortly. And, if it is in fact carpal tunnel (as opposed to same symptoms), that would tend to point away from benzo withdrawal, as far as Ashton's research has shown anyway.

 

After hearing what Okatz and you have to say, no updose to 5. And I probably wouldn't have anyway; I really wouldn't care about the lost months at all, and if I felt it would work I'd do it in any event, but I really don't.

 

And for now, at least until I toss it over and hear what others have to say, I'm not even gonna go to 2. It's just that the way I do it (oral syringes into a 3 oz cup) tablets are much easier, especially since I plan on holding "till further notice," i.e. till I feel completely stable.

 

ANYWAY, thanks for adding your thoughts; truly appreciated!

 

H4H back, of course!

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

[[be...]]

Hi Steve:

 

I have to agree with the others here. Of course you don't want to updose to 5 mg. But saying that you want to updose to 2 mg just for the sake of it being easy, well, that won't work out in the long run anyway. You're micro cuts will be odd cuts. What you have is a medical condition, not a benzo w/d issue. That's really good that you used your gut instincts and saw a doctor. I would wait for further testing just to make sure. And try and stay away from that guitar of yours and maybe listen to YouTube for a while. I wish you good healing.

 

(((((Hey Moo!!!)))))))

[[Mo...]]

Hey Bets!

Looks like the East Coast is slowly waking up. First Steve, now you 

I've been up for a while of course, it's already afternoon here.

How have you been , Bets?

[[st...]]

Hi Steve:

 

I have to agree with the others here. Of course you don't want to updose to 5 mg. But saying that you want to updose to 2 mg just for the sake of it being easy, well, that won't work out in the long run anyway. You're micro cuts will be odd cuts. What you have is a medical condition, not a benzo w/d issue. That's really good that you used your gut instincts and saw a doctor. I would wait for further testing just to make sure. And try and stay away from that guitar of yours and maybe listen to YouTube for a while. I wish you good healing.

 

(((((Hey Moo!!!)))))))

 

Hi Bets,

 

And many thanks to you, too, for adding your voice!

 

I've pretty much advised against updosing, but now have been tempted.

 

Assunming the current diagnosis is borne out by EMG, then yes, I do have a medical diagnosis. If not, than who knows; these symptoms are rather common, according to Ashton.

 

But if one Googles

 

carpal tunnel site:benzobuddies.org

 

there is no lack of Carpal Tunnel or similar symptoms here on BB.

 

I guess IMHO, either way, benzo withdrawal lurks. Otherwise just too much of a coincidence, as I see things anyway.

 

So you're East Coast too? NY here, right around the proverbial corner.

 

Again, thanks very much for chiming in. I really appreciate it!

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Sm...]]

Do whatever works for you at the moment stevets

I've updosed to go to a pill level before when I've tipped my toe in the other side and realised I needed a longer hold.

whatevs really.. it certainly isn't like the 5mg updose that will take a while to come down from.

And of course it depends on why you are doing it. So right now for instance I wouldn't updose from 1.68 to 2 purely for the sake of ease because it takes me over a fortnight to remove that much. But  if there were some other things bothering me then I'd  do it.

It all depends and is entirely individual

 

p.s I've developed RSI and carpal tunnel like symptos during this taper. It is undoubtedly partly keyboard (and laptop mouse pad) use, but as you say the frequency is so high there could be a benzo wd element to it. The body is a remarkable and hyper-connected system. It is rarely one thing or another causing something.

 

Hi 

[[st...]]

Do whatever works for you at the moment stevets

I've updosed to go to a pill level before when I've tipped my toe in the other side and realised I needed a longer hold.

whatevs really.. it certainly isn't like the 5mg updose that will take a while to come down from.

And of course it depends on why you are doing it. So right now for instance I wouldn't updose from 1.68 to 2 purely for the sake of ease because it takes me over a fortnight to remove that much. But  if there were some other things bothering me then I'd  do it.

It all depends and is entirely individual

 

p.s I've developed RSI and carpal tunnel like symptos during this taper. It is undoubtedly partly keyboard (and laptop mouse pad) use, but as you say the frequency is so high there could be a benzo wd element to it. The body is a remarkable and hyper-connected system. It is rarely one thing or another causing something.

 

Hi 

 

Hey Smiffy,

 

Thanks to you too for chiming in. And for the Hi Balloon as well!

 

Yeah, a remarkable system alright!

 

My main reason for 2 would be because I may (or may not) hang there for a while. My previous reasonings are out the door at the moment.

 

Carpal tunnel or something in my right hand, and other stuff too. A whole lot of shakin goin on here in NY town.

 

Running out of things to type, but I truly appreciate you chiming in!!!

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

[[be...]]

Hi Steve:

 

I have to agree with the others here. Of course you don't want to updose to 5 mg. But saying that you want to updose to 2 mg just for the sake of it being easy, well, that won't work out in the long run anyway. You're micro cuts will be odd cuts. What you have is a medical condition, not a benzo w/d issue. That's really good that you used your gut instincts and saw a doctor. I would wait for further testing just to make sure. And try and stay away from that guitar of yours and maybe listen to YouTube for a while. I wish you good healing.

 

(((((Hey Moo!!!)))))))

 

Hi Bets,

 

And many thanks to you, too, for adding your voice!

 

So you're East Coast too? NY here, right around the proverbial corner.

 

Again, thanks very much for chiming in. I really appreciate it!

 

Steve

 

Hi Steve: Yes, I am only about a half hour from Westchester County. I spent many years working for IBM Corp. HQ in Armonk until I got sick and tired of the commute. Seems I spent more time on the road than at work. Post anytime you want to. That's why we are here. And I got up late today. 

 

Hey my Moo:

 

I'm doing just fine. But the real question is how are you doing? I expect that you are asleep right now. I took too long of a nap, so I bet I will be up really early tomorrow. How's the vacation going? Still thrilled to be there? Any more bike trips??

Bets

[[he...]]

As I have been tapering down from 2.5 mg to 1.25 mg, by alternating between a half and a quarter pill, I noticed I was sweating profusely in the night. I could feel it dripping down my body and the smell is somewhat odd. I'm not sure if this is because the weather has been warmer or is my body really starting to detox as the benzo levels get closer to zero, or both. 

 

Just wondering if anyone else experiences this at this stage or later.

[[be...]]

Yes, sweating can happen, so don't worry about that. Sweat smells odd anyway.  But I would not keep alternating your dose. I'd stick with one dose and taper from that dose. I hope your sweats go away! Have a good one!

Bets

[[Ca...]]

DP! Thank you for returning to share your success. It is wonderful to hear you are 100%. I modeled my taper after you, Bart and Eliz...and I am nearly off. What a long crazy journey. I see signs of healing yet know I have a long way to go.

 

Thank you for your encouragement and presence here...you inspire us to continue.

 

Warmly and with gratitude,

 

Carita

[[...]]

Hi Carita

It looks like you're doing great and are almost off! Keep up the good work. It's only going to get better.

Bart

 

[[he...]]

Yes, sweating can happen, so don't worry about that. Sweat smells odd anyway.  But I would not keep alternating your dose. I'd stick with one dose and taper from that dose. I hope your sweats go away! Have a good one!

Bets

 

The alternating days dose was a method suggested by my GP when going off Celexa last year. I thought since Valium stays in the body 200 hours anyway, the cumulative effect of a few days at a time would be akin to a dose somewhere in between and easier than a straight jump.  Compared to the minute cuts I see in most people's signatures on here, I guess what I've been doing is jumping, 1.25mg at a time.

 

I am in the home stretch now, of being free of this drug.  I only take 1/4 of a pill per night. Within a month or so I will cut it even further til there is nothing.  I have been building up natural alternatives in my system and taking them at bedtime, as well as practicing the best sleep hygiene I can. It has been tough, and it still is.

[[Ca...]]

Thanks so much Bart. You were my mentor when I first started. I had no idea how long it would take. I am so grateful this leg of the journey is nearly over...another week and I'm off!

 

How are you faring? Do you feel healed?

 

With thanks,

Carita

 

[[mr...]]

Carita,

Do you get benzo belly and if so, do you still get it on this low a dose?

 

[[...]]

Thanks so much Bart. You were my mentor when I first started. I had no idea how long it would take. I am so grateful this leg of the journey is nearly over...another week and I'm off!

 

How are you faring? Do you feel healed?

 

With thanks,

Carita

 

That's great Carita. Just one more week. A huge milestone.

 

I'm basically fine and feel healed. At the moment I'm doing sort of an extreme diet and really hitting the weights for something upcoming. When I overdo it, I can feel some of the old symptoms. They go away quickly with a little rest and food. Ashton would call this healed but being  "sensitive". If I never did these extreme things, I would probably be saying I was 100% healed shortly after my taper ended. I think with a slow taper we wind up with enough GABA receptors to feel pretty completely normal so long as we don't do anything extreme. The last time I had significant symptoms  was several months ago when I was "out with the boys" and had 4 or 5 beers, lots of junk food, particularly chocolate, about two hours of sleep and lots of coffee before going to work the next day. The symptoms lasted until I came home and took a nap. I would again attribute this to my GABA receptors being in the low normal range. I sure hope it's not just from getting older.

 

It all gets better with time

 

Congratulations again

 

Bart the Healed (for all practical purposes--I'll say 100% healed after a night of debauchery and no symptoms the next day. Can't wait to try it)

[[Ca...]]

Bart...that is encouraging. Thank you for the update. I'm glad you are feeling so well. I too get upticks when I push the limits. I imagine the extra sensitivity can last awhile.

 

Here's to a night of merriment without consequences!

 

Best,

 

Carita

 

Mrtmeo,

  Ah yes, the benzo belly! I had a nice flat tummy til benzos came along! Nausea, abdominal pressure and bloating became my new normal. It is much much better now. I occasionally get a reminder of the acute abdominal symptoms...I nibble on thin slices of raw ginger and sip ginger tea. I also eat fermented foods along with an organic, vegetable, fruit and pasture raised meat based diet. It seems to help. Is this a problem for your mother? Does anything relieve her symptoms?

 

Warmly,

 

Carita

 

[[mr...]]

Hello everyone.

 

I'm in very severe crisis as I write this.  I'm new to this Benzo nightmare and desperately need some sound advice.

 

I recently crossed over from .40mg of Ativan to 4mg of Valium.  I now think I did it way too fast.  I posted my irratic c/o schedule a few pages back on this thread.  I didn't follow the advice I was given here on BB due to my immense impatience to get off the Ativan asap.  Now, I'm very very sorry for not doing so.  One of you knows who's advice I didn't follow.

 

I have had horrible all day wd s/x probably from going too fast.  I am out of control.

 

My pdoc instructed me to updose the Valium, which I have.  Up to 5.5mg.  I can't get any relief and I'm having the worst kind of intrusive thoughts I imagine are possible.

 

I crossed over in only 6.5 weeks.  I've been off the Ativan now completely for 7 days.  The last 7 days I have been dosing 5mg of Valium.  Yesterday, I started 5.5mg    today, I'll dose the same.

 

I've had no success with the deep breathing techniques some have suggested.

 

PLEASE.... someone give me some advice on what I might try to get some quick measure of relief.  I know there is no quick fix, but all of you who have so much more experience than I do surely could suggest something to help.

 

Please.... I simply do not want to resort going to the ER which will turn into another in-patient stay, and I've been warned about detox facilities by many.

 

Please help.  thanks

 

 

Hi Ini,

My mom went into complete respiratory failure due to ativan ct from taking it randomly.

She would desaturate down as low as 75%.

It is best to get a pulseox meter like from walgreens to check that your oxygen doesn't go below 90%.

If you oxygen is 95% or more, you are fine and just need to try relaxing techniques.

I had my mom breath out for 5 seconds and breath in for 2-4 seconds in order to slow down her breathing and she would calm down in < a minute.

Her breathing keeps improving, but then goes back and has done this since the beginning.

She had windows where her oxygen would go to 99% without supplemental oxygen and she walks around the house without her oxygen, so things have improved dramatically at 24 months versus the first 17 months.

She started at 6mg valium, stablized after a few weeks and she was driving without oxygen, but became couch ridden for 17 months after those first 3 months.

This all takes time to resolve and slowing the taper makes it much more manageable.

There was an article published that Ativan can get into the respiratory center of the brain and cause dysfunction.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/dec/05/health.medicineandhealth1

"Heather Ashton, professor of psycho-pharmacology at Newcastle University, said: 'Most people don't realise how potent Ativan is, far stronger than Valium. It gets into the brain very quickly and it gets into the respiratory centre at the base of the brain, which is why it can affect breathing.'"

[[Ch...]]

Thanks so much Bart. You were my mentor when I first started. I had no idea how long it would take. I am so grateful this leg of the journey is nearly over...another week and I'm off!

 

How are you faring? Do you feel healed?

 

With thanks,

Carita

 

Carita, I'm so happy to see this!  It's been a long, long road for you.

I remember when you first joined the forum and came to the Xanax thread.

With love,

Challis 

 

P.S.  Sorry to go off-topic… 

[[Ca...]]

Thank you Challis....you were the first to greet me. I will always remember your kindness.

 

Love,

 

Carita

[[Ar...]]

Sure wish I would have known about this group before I was CT in detox from Valium.  I guess most people find out after the fact when a cold turkey detox happens.  I guess I was naïve believing the addictionologist.  She had the cover of the Ashton Manual on her board by her desk and told me I could get off one of two ways. I assumed because she was apparently aware of the Ashton Method she wouldnt do something that would be bad for me. How incredibly wrong I was. 

 

Hello to all of you!!

[[mr...]]

Sure wish I would have known about this group before I was CT in detox from Valium.  I guess most people find out after the fact when a cold turkey detox happens.  I guess I was naïve believing the addictionologist.  She had the cover of the Ashton Manual on her board by her desk and told me I could get off one of two ways. I assumed because she was apparently aware of the Ashton Method she wouldnt do something that would be bad for me. How incredibly wrong I was. 

 

Hello to all of you!!

Hi Arianna,

Welcome!

I am very sorry you were misinformed by someone that should have known better.

 

[[mr...]]

After reading so many others tapers, it appears that going below .3mg valium causes most to have to slow down their taper.

I found this to be very true with my mom's taper.

It does follow that once below .30mg valium that even with an 18 day hold, our blood levels will be under the 2mg lowest effective dose.

It seems I can't taper my mom faster than 10% per month without more, longer lasting symptoms.

 

 

[[be...]]

Mrtmeo:

 

I hope you can get rid of the rest of  your mom's benzo with little trouble. I haven't been there yet, but I do hear the last few crumbs can be difficult. That, I am not looking forward too. I hope you have a very nice weekend.

 

Ariannna:

 

I welcome you too! I too, decided to taper before I found BB and even before I saw my pdoc. Of course, I didn't know what I was doing so I dropped 3 mg of K in two weeks. That didn't go well. So I updosed by 1 mg and stayed there until I saw BB and then, my pdoc. If I kept on this way, I would be a mess. So glad you found us!

 

 

((((Moo?)))))

Bets

[[Mo...]]

Mrtmeo:

 

I hope you can get rid of the rest of  your mom's benzo with little trouble. I haven't been there yet, but I do hear the last few crumbs can be difficult. That, I am not looking forward too. I hope you have a very nice weekend.

 

Ariannna:

 

I welcome you too! I too, decided to taper before I found BB and even before I saw my pdoc. Of course, I didn't know what I was doing so I dropped 3 mg of K in two weeks. That didn't go well. So I updosed by 1 mg and stayed there until I saw BB and then, my pdoc. If I kept on this way, I would be a mess. So glad you found us!

 

 

((((Moo?)))))

Bets

 

Hey Betsy!!

I'm here 

Been a rough few days. Some stuff is kicking my butt . But I'm keeping going.

It's surprising how we get used to the food of the country we live in so quickly. I miss Starbucks and bacon .

 

I dropped another 0.025, Bets. Yesterday morning. Keeping the fingers crossed. If this doesn't kick me too much I'll pull another one in a few days. Right now I not on any schedule anymore and cut when I feel well enough for a few days. No more hurry, the worst feel behind me.

 

How have you been?

[[be...]]

My noodle:

 

You are a very brave gal for cutting while on vacation. I so admire you for this. Sorry you have had you butt kicked. But you keep on moving, just like Grinch did. If it were me, I'd make sure I have very few symtoms before cutting again. Well, that's just me. I suspect the troubles might come to and end. Maybe you'll get off free in post taper. Wouldn't that be just wonderful? I know all about getting adapted to foods you haven't eaten in a long while. Same thing happened to me when my Polish grandmom took over the cooking details when mom had five kids in a row. I think the same holds true for benzos. That's why once I am rid of this crap I never plan to take one again. I just know my mind will quickly remember them. I decided to hold for three days instead of just two. I am waiting to see if my bad fatigue days go away. I really hate to hold, as I sooooooooooooo much want off this junk. You better stay here when you jump, lady! This place would not be the same if you were to leave. That would force me into holding funeral services for you. I hope your trip sound as good as you say. There is one poster on withdrawal who is contemplating whether to go on vacation or not. If you get a chance, you might want to respond to him. He can get it straight from the horse's mouth.

 

:hug:

Bets