Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[...]]

Hi DP

 

It's great to hear you're healed! Congratulations on your success and best wishes in your new life.

You've been a great help to so many people on BB.

A big thank you!

 

Bart

[[Sm...]]

 

 

Mo, we are listening.  Some of us have been here a long time. My taper ends soon after 18 months of crap. It hasn't been pretty. But somehow the days passed. Somehow I was able to accept and believe by the help of all the buddies here. It will be a whole lot easier if you accept its not fun, it won't go away by next month and that we are all here to keep telling you it'll be ok.

Time... It'll take time... And it's up to you how you fill it.

 

As drew says: be the canoe! Go with the flow, don't fight it. The mOre you fight it,the harder it clings.

 

 

Sage words Moomoo-wan

 

Thinking of you in that plane. Thinking of you with all your gallons of strength. Thinking of you in those early days; now look at you about to jump free.

 

She is right Mo. Time passes. 18 months seems like an eternity when you are in front of it. Although you don't feel sadness at that lost time on the otherside, you do come to learn to accept it. With acceptance comes whatever peace one will get in this nightmare.

 

I have PTSD too and honestly it is one of the reasons I've tried to stay out of bad withdrawal. I will have been tapering 2 years by the beginning of august, all to get me off 10mg of V. So I understand how the terror can run deep. You just have to hang in there, and amongst other things martial every meditative skill you have, because that is the only choice you've got and you will get relief eventually.

 

Being off benzos may even help deal with the PTSD; benzos disrupt memory formation thus it can disrupt healing from PTSD which requires new memories to, at least partially, overwrite the hardwired terror ones.

[[Sm...]]

Oh DP

 

maybe it is my weird reflective mood but tears of joy for your freedom now, and the promise of a future your post-benzo-life brings us.

 

We've been through a lot huh? I did notice just the other day that you'd be coming up to a year off. It doesn't seem like a year. The last 12 months have gone quickly. I suppose one gets into a taper groove and allows time to pass over them.

Sorry to hear about your Mum dear one. Glad to hear of all the new and exciting things you are discovering.

 

Much love

Smiffy

 

check in on me in september or december. I'm hopeful I'll be off at one of those two points.

[[Mo...]]

Hey all,

 

Quick read through before I crash after being up for 28 hours.

 

Thanks all for being here . I was able to read here and there on the first part of the travel. I bought wifi for the little one and snuck on here when he was doing a bit of something else. But it was slow and I had to forfeit some posts.

It was good to know I was never alone during this. Of course literally I wasn't alone,because of my son. But also felt you guys were so kind in posting to me and helping me through. It did help.

 

Bets, I saw no naked woman on the roof. I think you were only kidding. Shame on you !

ATU , you must have not worn something glow in the dark. 

 

smiff, heya! Good to see you here.

 

Hi DP. Thanks for the post. I'm so sorry to read about the loss of your mom....

I can imagine it being so odd to suddenly be retired...

And really good to read you're doing well. Thank for coming in here and there and providing hope and encouragement.

 

rivers hope, thanks you for your always kind and uplidfting  posts. How are you doing yourself ?

 

Chal, thanks. Breathing... Breathing...

 

Mo, hoping your days will get better soon and that your cross over will go smoother. Don't give up.

 

snow, baby come back .... ( I know that's a song and right now it goes through my mind )

Yes?

Your sambucol saved me. Thank you for being there. For your support. For sambucol. Oh, I said that already. I'm going to have this is my med cabinet always.

 

and of course katz... Katzy. Katzenkatz.

Hope your day starts good and that you will have w great Sunday , going on a drive ?

 

I'm about to zone out . My mom accidentally gave me caffeinated coffee. I nearly flipped out. So far so good. I'm tired and the flight was long and I had to collect myself a few times. I cried only once, from under my sunglasses . Nobody noticed . It was not too horrific. I'm actually doing rather well , seeing the circumstances.

 

Moo

[[et...]]

Great news DP. I hope you're making up for lost time. I will be done soon too.

etown

[[be...]]

Noodle my noodle:

 

Thanks for hopping in and giving us an update. 28 hours is a long time to be awake, especially with the stress of traveling. Geez, if my mom gave me regular coffee I think I would be up for the whole vacation.  I'm so glad that the Sambucol worked for you. Snow gives magic advice. I hope you feel great today and can spend some quality time with your family. I am sure they are so happy to see you. Nope, you're right. I wasn't naked on the roof. I started taking my clothes off but the poooolice came by and told me to dress again. Glad you snuck in the wifi. I'm wishing you a great holiday: you deserve it. That's OK to cry a bit. Wearing sunglasses is a good idea. We will all miss you of course, but I know you'll pop in from time to time. The flowers there must be so beautiful. I bet Bennie would be really jealous. Have a great one my dear friend. I wish I was with you. I hope your son gets a chance to get close to his family. All of my best, dear.

 

DP: Long time no see. I'm so glad you popped in and gave us an update. I am really happy that you are 100% healed. I think that gives all of us great hope and it is so inspiring. You have continually inspired me while you were tapering. I can't even draw a stick. But now that you mentioned painting, I just might give it a try. Thanks for being here for all of us. You know, I have followed your posts from the beginning and you were always very helpful. That's called Mercy. Wishing you the best: but is seems you have found the best. Sorry about your mom. I think that's ready to happen to mine, as she is buying a burial plot. Good deal in living such a great life! This gives me even more courage to get rid of this drug. And you were right all along. I am using a daily micro taper and I have never felt better, when compared to cut and hold. I think that might be old news to the medical community at some point. Even my pdoc says it's really the only way to go. :smitten: :smitten:

Bets

 

[[Al...]]

Hi everyone - yes it's me - doing one of my very irregular check-ins and updates ..lol... 

 

I can’t tell you how great benzo-free life is. I'm getting really close to being benzo-free for a whole year (on the 30th July) and I can honestly tell you I am completely healed. I'm not even going to hedge my bets and say 99%. I'm 100%. Complete healing can take some time, but it's totally worth waiting for. I haven't had any sleeping issues for ages now. Going to bed at night is totally stress free. I get sleepy, I turn out the light and I'm asleep within minutes.

 

I'm not sure if I've already told you this, but my mother passed away about 3 months ago, so I am officially an orphan now. She was 86 and mentally she was deteriorating, but no one really expected her to go so suddenly. Happily for her she went in her sleep. I can only hope it will be that way for me when my time comes. Truthfully I had a lot of issues with my mother, and the kind of childhood she caused me to have, but death is so very final, and that can make you very reflective.

 

We're still trying to sort out her estate, but hopefully that will be done within the next month. Due to my inheritance, I decided to give up work. I was only working part time anyway, but I still went through a period of depression which really shocked me. We all dream about retirement, but if you're not totally prepared for it, it can be very confronting because it’s a complete change of lifestyle. You suddenly have a lot of free time on your hands and nothing constructive to do with it. I’m just really glad that I wasn’t also dealing with benzo dependency at the same time. My best advice to anyone contemplating, or even just dreaming about, retirement is to not only plan financially for it, plan psychologically for it too, because retirement depression is a very common thing, so my own doctor and Dr Google tells me. Take some time now to develop a lot of interests and hobbies that will keep you occupied in retirement. Don’t wait for retirement to happen before doing it.

 

Anyway, I’ve been feeling really great over the last few weeks. I'm starting to feel really motived by life again. I’m getting out and doing some gardening, doing things around the house, joining new groups and making new friends and I’ve even recently discovered that I may have a talent for painting, and have just started some art classes. This has been the biggest surprise to me because I was always one of those people who said I couldn't paint or draw to save my life, but I'd never really tried. It just goes to show that you don’t know what you can do until you try. I guess that could also be a metaphor for benzo tapering ..lol..

 

There are so many new people here I don’t know, and you probably don’t know me either…lol.. I just hope you are all doing okay with your taper. If you are struggling just remember that it truly doesn’t last. Things really do get better. There were times during my taper where I wondered if my life would ever be normal again, but that’s completely normal. We all go through it, but we all get through it. Life will be normal again. It just takes time and patience.

 

Okatz – wow you’re really getting there. My prediction - benzo free by Christmas kiddo!!!!

 

DP,

 

It is so wonderful that your free and clear of this ugly chapter in your life, the same Benzo chapter in all our lives. My deepest sympathies regarding the loss of your Mother and it sounds like you and I had the same type of Mother. Mine passed about 5 years ago now and I feel bad that I still haven't shed a single tear. Well let's not go there.

 

Your situation and how you are feeling gives me much hope for my own future. You were always there to help me when I needed you and I want you to know that you made a difference in my own battle with this taper.

 

Best of luck to you with your new life!

 

Much love:

 

:smitten:

 

ATU

[[Al...]]

Moo,

 

So glad to hear you are there safely and it actually sounds like you enjoyed it.

 

Have fun at home and remember from previous experience, even though you feel very good try not to over do it. Moderation in all things is the Buddhist way!

 

Keep us up to date when possible. We love to hear of your exploits.

 

Hugs:

 

 

ATU

[[or...]]

Just reading here now.

 

DP it's so good to hear from you and learn that you are 100% healed. This is what we all dream about. Your mother's passing sounds as though it was a bit of a shock, but sometimes being and "orphan" can be liberating, too. And you have a great attitude towards your retirement . . . DP the artist!

 

I'm so very glad to have known you along this journey . . . you helped me out immensely.

 

All the best, my friend!

 

Moo . . . you made it!! And crying is very okay! Good to hear that your mother started taking care of you immediately with coffee  Oy!! Good job, kiddo. I'm looking forward to your posts. Have a good sleep!

 

 

[[Te...]]

Hello, Moo, ATU, Bets,Rosegal, MOzart, Oregon, Bart, all BB friends,

 

Moo,

I wish your trip will be easy and painless, please remember we will be with you in the plane,  let us know how did it go, when you arrive to NL.

 

Happy 4th of July  to All !!!

 

My dogs don't like the fireworks , they are shaking, they need a Dog's Benzo      (just kidding) 

 

Tex

 

:smitten: :smitten:

 

Hey Tex:

 

I hear you about the dogs not liking fireworks. I brought one of my dogs to the fireworks display, on leash, and as soon as the first one went off she dashed away madly, with me in tow on my belly, across a very busy street, me panicking that we might get hit by a car. There were 100s of cars parked, but she found mine right away and as soon as I opened my SUV door, she hopped in and sat there, shivering. Me and hubby thought it was time to leave. Never again. :smitten:

Bets

 

Bets,

My dogs, don't like fireworks and thunderstorms, they are very afraid of, their hearts are pumping,  I feel so sorry for them I don't know what to do to calm down them. One of them like to run as soon as any door is open,  It's hard to recover them, they have tags,  People call me if they found them.  They  were rescue by my daughter from the street. she loves animals in general. sometimes I had 4 dogs, but always she found house for them, I just let her have 2 dogs.  long time ago I entered my house and she was crying in the garage, she was with a dog,  she said he was hit by a car.  I told her he was dying, she rushed to the animal hospital,  came back later crying, the dog died,  she spent like 300 bucks.  That s..  hit me hard.  I'm very sensitive, I shouldn't  even remember this kind of things. 

 

have a nice Sunday, take care of your dogies.

 

Tex 

 

 

[[be...]]

Hey Tex: I am with your daughter on this one. I always brought home stray cats and dogs. I had to put down my beloved Ranger a couple of years ago and I still cry when I think about it. Putting him down was worse than benzo w/d, to me. I think Mozart earlier mentioned that you can give your dog benadryl~~1 mg for each pound. But my dogs weigh about 85 lbs so no way am I going to do that! Luckily they have their hunting titles from the AKC so they are used to hearing guns blasting around their ears. The other dog, eh. I gave her to a good friend of mine from Stockten, Calif. They are trust fund babies so they don't have to work. They spend a lot of time with Jessie as they live on 100 acres right next to the Pacific. I hope you get get ear plugs for your doggies. I love your daughter already.

 

:smitten: :smitten:

Bets

[[ri...]]

Oops River: I know you are a woman. Just a typo from this tired brain. The song is called River, by Joni Mitchell. She talks about wanting to skate away on a long River and she "wants to make a lot of money and leave this crazy business." The whole point is that once she signed her first contract with Paul McCartney and Apple Records, she did not like having to produce songs when they told her to. She is a free spirit and only write poetry and then later on, she put is to music: if she feels like it. But she knows she just can't skate on a River, as that's not something you can do aka get off her contract. But wishes she could. Once her contract was done, she was the first musician to ever produce her albums on her own. She had plenty of $$ to do so. Ironically, because of her contract. For any Mitchell fans out there, she is finally home after spending more than two months at the hospital, but she can't walk (her old Polio has come back) and she has a brain aneurysm. Which is inoperable. I think part of my soul will die the day she does. She is only 71 but has a long history of various serious medical conditions. :'( :'( :'( :'(

Bets 

 

Bets, I have never heard that song but I loved it.  It makes me sad knowing Joni is so sick, I can't believe she is 71.  I loved her style always so hip and cool.  I hope she hangs in there like the rest of us.  I have seen a lot of rock concerts in my time but never saw her.  She still looks great though.

[[ri...]]

Moodle,

 

I am thrilled you made it and that the sambucol helped.  How nice to be with your mom.  They must be so happy to see you and their grandson.  Did the little guy enjoy the flight?  Now you can decompress after the caffeine wears off lol and have help with your son and you can rest knowing he is in good hands.

 

I am doing ok, had some rough days the last couple of days, burning in my legs is the most annoying symptom but hangin' in there with the rest of everyone. Having to hold more than I like but such is the nature of the beast.

 

Have a great time with your family. 

 

love,

River

 

[[be...]]

Oops River: I know you are a woman. Just a typo from this tired brain. The song is called River, by Joni Mitchell. She talks about wanting to skate away on a long River and she "wants to make a lot of money and leave this crazy business." The whole point is that once she signed her first contract with Paul McCartney and Apple Records, she did not like having to produce songs when they told her to. She is a free spirit and only write poetry and then later on, she put is to music: if she feels like it. But she knows she just can't skate on a River, as that's not something you can do aka get off her contract. But wishes she could. Once her contract was done, she was the first musician to ever produce her albums on her own. She had plenty of $$ to do so. Ironically, because of her contract. For any Mitchell fans out there, she is finally home after spending more than two months at the hospital, but she can't walk (her old Polio has come back) and she has a brain aneurysm. Which is inoperable. I think part of my soul will die the day she does. She is only 71 but has a long history of various serious medical conditions. :'( :'( :'( :'(

Bets 

 

Bets, I have never heard that song but I loved it.  It makes me sad knowing Joni is so sick, I can't believe she is 71.  I loved her style always so hip and cool.  I hope she hangs in there like the rest of us.  I have seen a lot of rock concerts in my time but never saw her.  She still looks great though.

 

So you listened to it on YouTube? The reason you never saw her because she hates touring. Sometimes she would get onstage, sing a couple of bars, realized that she wasn't singing up to par. Then she started a 2nd song and did the same thing. Then she just got up and left the stage, with the fans left hanging. This happened to me and I got really pissed at her for a long time. It was only when she joined up with the LA Express that she stopped that behavior. She is very temperamental. And opinionated. Just read her recent autobiography. It will surprise you. She is not the person you think she is.  :'( I think her age and her various illnesses have caught up with her. Plus the fact that she smokes 4 packs a day since she was just 8 doesn't help.....Too many drugs....

[[Ge...]]

I have a real problem here. I have posted earlier that I really believe I'm tolerant now. I was down to 1.3 mgs Valium after a three year taper from 30 mgs and one night I felt bad w/d. I've held , I've updosed a tenth at a time and after each increase I would go into severe w/d after a week. I increased my dose to 3 mgs and still the same results. My doctor wants me to keep going up till I stabilize . I would do that but my gut tells me it may not work. My thoughts are to jump from here because holding isn't helping. I know it won't be pleasant but I really don't think I have an option. I plane old screwed around on this low dose to keep working that now up dosing won't work.

Has anyone have any advise. I really don't want to go up to a high dose again. I'd have to go through this again and I don't think I could handle another taper

Thanks

[[Kg...]]

Geterdone:  I am not usually on this board because I take Klonopin and a small amt of Valium.  I suggest that if holding doesn't work and up dosing doesn't work then you should listen to your doctor and keep tapering to get off of the last of the Valium.  I don't know how you were tapering Valium because your signature doesn't say.  If you go on the klonopin board, Clona just posted for me how to do a daily taper of Valium using a gram scale.  This may work for you - since you can go down but it is not a shock to your system since you cut a small amt every day.  I know it is working for me and many others. There is also a micro tapering support group where many of the people use liquid Valium so I would post there as well.    I know if it were me I wouldn't jump at your dose if I was feeling so bad but I would keep going down, slowly. 

[[Al...]]

I have a real problem here. I have posted earlier that I really believe I'm tolerant now. I was down to 1.3 mgs Valium after a three year taper from 30 mgs and one night I felt bad w/d. I've held , I've updosed a tenth at a time and after each increase I would go into severe w/d after a week. I increased my dose to 3 mgs and still the same results. My doctor wants me to keep going up till I stabilize . I would do that but my gut tells me it may not work. My thoughts are to jump from here because holding isn't helping. I know it won't be pleasant but I really don't think I have an option. I plane old screwed around on this low dose to keep working that now up dosing won't work.

Has anyone have any advise. I really don't want to go up to a high dose again. I'd have to go through this again and I don't think I could handle another taper

Thanks

 

I know when I read Dr. Pearts advise on updosing he said that if you have to updose it may need to be to a higher dose than you wish because updosing just a little won't always work and the sxs will just follow you up. When I had to updose from 1.75 mg. I had to up up to 3 mg. to stablize.

 

But yes, it takes time to get back down. This time I am going real slow with long holds hopefully so as to not fall into acute again.

 

Best of luck. Not sure what you should do I think you say you are at 1.6 so maybe it can be done.

 

 

ATU

[[...]]

I have a real problem here. I have posted earlier that I really believe I'm tolerant now. I was down to 1.3 mgs Valium after a three year taper from 30 mgs and one night I felt bad w/d. I've held , I've updosed a tenth at a time and after each increase I would go into severe w/d after a week. I increased my dose to 3 mgs and still the same results. My doctor wants me to keep going up till I stabilize . I would do that but my gut tells me it may not work. My thoughts are to jump from here because holding isn't helping. I know it won't be pleasant but I really don't think I have an option. I plane old screwed around on this low dose to keep working that now up dosing won't work.

Has anyone have any advise. I really don't want to go up to a high dose again. I'd have to go through this again and I don't think I could handle another taper

Thanks

 

I agree with you.  You are so close and this drug is a problem for you if you can't stabilize at a higher dose.  The only solution to that is to get rid of it.

 

You've been microtapering, right?  Have you tried removing small cuts like a few percent and holding until symptoms go away?  I have no idea if this will work but it is at least another approach that moves you in toward zero.  Maybe remove 5% and sit and wait until you are ready to do it again.  See what happens.

[[or...]]

Geter about this:

 

I increased my dose to 3 mgs and still the same results. My doctor wants me to keep going up till I stabilize . I would do that but my gut tells me it may not work. My thoughts are to jump from here because holding isn't helping.

 

I certainly wouldn't jump from where you are.

 

And you gut may well be right. I suspect it is.

 

Updosing is a tricky business. As ATU says, if you updose by tiny amounts, the s/x may follow you up. It's as though your brain can't tell the difference. The conventional wisdom on the BB is, when all else fails, to updose to the last dose you felt comfortable on.

 

You didn't tell us what that was . . . but it's water under the bridge now.

 

Your sig says you are making very small cuts: .005 mgs.

 

Okay, here's what I would do: do not updose any more. Go back to making your very small cuts daily and instead of waiting for s/x to get you, maybe do some planned holds. Perhaps every 3 or 4 days, hold, then continue cutting. That ought to eliminate, or at least reduce the accumulation of s/x. May of us who are doing a daily taper are actually doing that -- a hybrid of cut & hold and daily tapering.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Okatz

 

 

 

[[Ge...]]

Hi all

Thanks for the replys. Yes I have been doing a slow cut and hold. In a twenty to one solution I was only cutting 1/10 th of a mil .thats slow. I think it's an .005 cut

Sg you helped me with the formula. I really believe my only way out is to jump. 3 mgs after a three year taper should be safe as far as protracted w/d I would think . It wasn't but a month ago I was down to 1.6.

Cutting everyday never worked for me. I tried many many times. Even a small amount. After 10 days I would get horrible w/d.

This is a bad situation and yea I'm saying why me? I was doing fine now I'm all messed up

[[li...]]

Mozart,

 

I'm going to give you a different kind of response.

 

While I don't have your issues with clonazepam and diazepam, both drugs are horrible and switching is a challenge at best.

 

I don't blame you for lying to the doc.

The IDD doc didn't take you seriously because of the benzo and the PTSD ?

I have been in a similar situation (minus the PTSD) with an internist who didn't take me seriously because I mentioned Klonopin (?), and well, because he was a really unpleasant fellow too.

Who knows, maybe I have an undiagnosed disease, or at the very least a thyroid issue ?

 

You do what you think you must do.

Sometimes life can be tough. I think it would be fair if the pcp would accept your explanation/apology that you did what you did because the first idd didn't take you seriously and you were very concerned.

But life isn't always fair.

 

There is indeed a bit much drama here.

Try not to let it get to you. Best wishes.

[[...]]

Hi all

Thanks for the replys. Yes I have been doing a slow cut and hold. In a twenty to one solution I was only cutting 1/10 th of a mil .thats slow. I think it's an .005 cut

Sg you helped me with the formula. I really believe my only way out is to jump. 3 mgs after a three year taper should be safe as far as protracted w/d I would think . It wasn't but a month ago I was down to 1.6.

Cutting everyday never worked for me. I tried many many times. Even a small amount. After 10 days I would get horrible w/d.

This is a bad situation and yea I'm saying why me? I was doing fine now I'm all messed up

 

I don't know, man.  I think 3mg is quite high to jump from.  Those first few mg of dose occupy a lot of receptors from what I understand.

 

Since tiny cuts aren't working, why not try bigger, but still small cuts.  A few percent.  Something like 5%.  It is hard to understand what is going on in a case like yours.  If it were me I'd get rid of the drug, but not by jumping.

[[ri...]]

Oops River: I know you are a woman. Just a typo from this tired brain. The song is called River, by Joni Mitchell. She talks about wanting to skate away on a long River and she "wants to make a lot of money and leave this crazy business." The whole point is that once she signed her first contract with Paul McCartney and Apple Records, she did not like having to produce songs when they told her to. She is a free spirit and only write poetry and then later on, she put is to music: if she feels like it. But she knows she just can't skate on a River, as that's not something you can do aka get off her contract. But wishes she could. Once her contract was done, she was the first musician to ever produce her albums on her own. She had plenty of $$ to do so. Ironically, because of her contract. For any Mitchell fans out there, she is finally home after spending more than two months at the hospital, but she can't walk (her old Polio has come back) and she has a brain aneurysm. Which is inoperable. I think part of my soul will die the day she does. She is only 71 but has a long history of various serious medical conditions. :'( :'( :'( :'(

Bets 

 

Bets, I have never heard that song but I loved it.  It makes me sad knowing Joni is so sick, I can't believe she is 71.  I loved her style always so hip and cool.  I hope she hangs in there like the rest of us.  I have seen a lot of rock concerts in my time but never saw her.  She still looks great though.

 

So you listened to it on YouTube? The reason you never saw her because she hates touring. Sometimes she would get onstage, sing a couple of bars, realized that she wasn't singing up to par. Then she started a 2nd song and did the same thing. Then she just got up and left the stage, with the fans left hanging. This happened to me and I got really pissed at her for a long time. It was only when she joined up with the LA Express that she stopped that behavior. She is very temperamental. And opinionated. Just read her recent autobiography. It will surprise you. She is not the person you think she is.  :'( I think her age and her various illnesses have caught up with her. Plus the fact that she smokes 4 packs a day since she was just 8 doesn't help.....Too many drugs....

 

 

Yes I definately listened to the song.  I had really no idea she was such a handful.  No wonder she wouldn't be happy at times with her singing on stage, 4 packs of cigs a day since 8 would alter anyones voice.  Nothing like taking away a womens femininity when their voice is all coarse and raspy from all the smoking.  But I still loved her taste and style.  Now you have me curious about her bio book.  I need to check that out.  Thanks for the info I love old rockers especially the women.

[[Mo...]]

Geterdone,

I agree with previous posts, that 3 mgr isn't a dose I would jump from.

Why not try a larger cut first and see how that goes instead of just a drastic " solution "?

Some people who have held have actually experienced a decrease in xs after a cut.

I don't know how that works, but it might be worth a try...

 

Up dosing doesn't always everyone. And it makes sense to me that updosing by tiny amounts might just not have done the trick.

 

We can all just specialty about what'll happen but I just wanted to put my two cents in about jumping from 3 mgr. it's not an amount I'd be comfortable with jinxing anything...

 

I'm sorry you're having to go through this.

 

[[be...]]

Hi Geterdone. I agree with the others here. I don't think any increase will help you. If it were me and it will be me, I plan to take it down to vapor capers before I jump. The best way for you is off.

 

Hey Moo: I see that you are still alive. How's is going for you? Did Snow's magic pill end up working and are you now feeling up to steam? How is your son doing? Better food there, no? Wishing you a very happy vacation. :smitten:

 

River: You can but it on Amazon: In Her Own Words, by Joni Mitchell. It's a Q&A so it can be a hard read, as the topics and the various interviews are spread out at different points in her life. Her opinions change a lot as time passes..

:smitten:

Bets