Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[be...]]

Hi Mozart: I know that you feel as if you are in terrible trouble, and yes, you do have problems with benzos. I am so sorry for this as I know you want to get off this crap. Yes, if truly needed, you can do a direct C/O. But my suggestion would be to do it in two stages. Valium in the morning, and .5 mg of K and night. Then wait a week and make the complete C/O. But do what you feel is best. I'm sorry, but I believe the K will not work for you well anymore, as it has stopped working in the past. Then you might hit tolerance w/d, which is unpleasant. I believe Grinch had to go through that with her Xanax. The best way to cut down the effects of this is to either do titration or a micro taper.  Cut and hold is harsh on your body.

 

I believe I posted this at least four times on KK earlier on. People lost it or were on a different dose so I either had to rewrite it or find it and copy and paste it. I think you know the routine about a dry daily micro taper. But I case you don't, I will go through the process with you again. Ugh.

 

First off, if you don't have one yet, then go onto Amazon and buy a Digital Jewelry Scale GEM20. It costs about $25. Then what you want to do is take  10 .5 mg pill and weigh them in grams. Add up all of those weights and then divide it by 10. That is your average weight. No need to weigh more than 10 pills.

 

So at first you want to be cautious and drop by .001 grams 10 out of 14 days. Hold the other days. If you find this to work out well, and don't have any major s/x, you can cut every day. But wait a few weeks before making this decision. So if your average weight is .170, and all pills weigh by a different amount, then your first cut will be to .169 grams. Even if the pill you are cutting weights something as high as .180 grams, you still need to reach the .169 grams on your first cut. The 2nd cut will be to .168 grams. Remember, you always have to take that other .5 mg in pill form. Don't worry if your average weight in not something like .169 or .170. Everybody comes up with a different average weight. So if you average weight is something like .174 grams, then your first cut will be to .173 grams. Rinse and repeat. Don't forget those hold days. To do this, you cut to the same weight two times. Do this for every hold day. Since cutting just .001 grams, that is a very tiny amount. You will also need to buy a metal finger nail file and an Xacto knife. For your first cut, just make one tiny swipe on the pill and reweigh it. This scale is very sensitive so the numbers will bounce around at first. Wait about a minute when the right weight number does not change. Always weigh the uncut pill first, so you know how many swipes you will have to make. If you find a pill that weighs less then your cut amount, save it and put it into an air tight baggie and in magic marker, put the number on it. You will have to use that later on. Also, save over cut pills and do the same. You will need to use them and then you don't have to cut that pill again. Be very careful on how many swipes you will need. The smaller the weight, the more swipes you will have to make. Eventually, you will need to cut a small portion out with the Xacto knife and then use the metal file to get the correct number. Those pills you may tend to overcut. Again do not throw them out. Save them for later use.

 

Remember to keep you scale on a hard flat surface and keep it away from all electronic devices. Don't move the scale around as you might have to re calibrate it. That is a pain in the neck. You scale will not come with instructions, but you can find the link and print them out. The print appears very tiny, but since I have a hands-on computer, I can just enlarge it with my fingers. I think Bennie or Kgirl know the link.

 

Anther reminder: Don't forget to take that other .5 mg pill at night, as well as your cut pill in the am.! Cut at least 14 pills at a time. Every time the scale shuts off, it will act differently. I cut 30 pills at the same time. To avoid it from shutting off, take the pill you want to cut off the scale, but replace it with another pill. It doesn't mater what that pill weighs, as you are not using it. Don't even bother looking at the number. Always reweigh a pill every time you cut it, to see what the weight of that cut pill is. If it weighs more than you want it to be, then cut again and reweigh it again until you reach the correct number.

 

I keep a log and put down the dates in order, say June 1, June 2, June 3rd, etc. Every time you cut a pill then put it in a baggie, mark it with the weight and then check off your log that the pill on that day has been successfully cut. Even if you overcut a pill, just go down your log and check off that date. At first, it will seem hard, but by the time you cut several pills, you will get the hang of it and it will become much easier. I still over cut pills at times because now I am using the Xacto knife as well as the file so you really have to eye ball it. I just save those over cut pills for later use. The process is very tedious but there is not way around it. Please bookmark this or copy it to a WORD document as I don't want to have to rewrite this. Good luck. I would order the scale ASAP, but it comes pretty fast. I'm sorry the K does work  so you might want to take Xanax as well. :'( Also, I just don't know what advice to give you about the chills. You say you don't have a thyroid problem so that's really good. I had the same situation with very bad chills so I know what you are talking about. But it turned out to be my thyroid so that has gone away. I am so sorry that you have this, especially since you are having a very bad go of it with your benzos. I see you C/Oed to K last night. It didn't seem to work. I am sorry for this. I don't know what else to tell you but if you keep taking Xanax (I don't know whether you have or not), then you will have a double whammy.

 

Hi Lost: I think mrtmeo and Moodle gave you some good advice so I won't repeat it. But I am with them 3X with those replies. Good luck to you. I am sure you will do just fine. Just like Paul said.

 

Hey there Moo: Thanks for asking and the reply back. Yes, my insomnia has pretty much gone away now. It seems the lower I get in my K, the better I sleep. But I've been having a very bad bout of it this past week as my brother, who lives 3,000 miles away from our family, is in serious trouble. We can't help him and he won't accept any family member visits. Since his divorce, he is alone. His daughters have turned on him, and well, his x-wife is completely nasty. So that keeps me up. Keeps the whole family up. Our grass is so green and it keeps growing like mad so we have to have our groundskeeper cut it twice a week. Plus the flowers and trees are booming like mad. I'm sorry you have brown lawns. And the poor animals! Looking for food that they cannot find. Despite our healthy rain, we often find deer, foxes, coyotes and even mountain lions around our back yard. That's why we keep the cats inside. The last one we had was eaten by one of those. We have large woods in our backyard. And Yippee for me. I haven't had a bout on fatigue for a while now. Now that I just said this it will come tomorrow. If you have more waves but less severe ones, I think personally that is a good sign. That means your brain is working very hard to get back to your normalcy. Do I like the Y? Yes and no. I like it because it is a fantastic place with all of the bells and whistles. OTOH, people are starting to take notice of it and are coming in like gangbusters to sign up, so now you have to wait to use a machine. Also, our lovely Merritt Parkway is really an annoyance to me. There are always signs that say workmen ahead, fines doubled, left lane closed, so everything comes to a halt. Yet we eventually realize that there are no workmen, no machines, no nothing. So it is like bad rush hour for no need. I am going to call the DOT today and complain to them. It normally takes me 15 minutes to get there, but with this, it takes me an hour. By then I am already pissed off. I hope you are doing well my friend and keep up the good work. :thumbsup: And hey, may be my shoe doesn't have to drop. It's a wait and see game. An unpleasant one. I'd rather be playing Monopoly.

 

can do:

 

Every V-er here! Have a great day!

Bets

[[mr...]]

Mo,

Since xanax and klonopin are the drugs you were on, is it possible for you to very, very slowly taper off those?

Titration would be the best way to go slowly.

There is a thread where folks can walk you thru titration.

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=62.0

 

[[Mo...]]

BETS AND EVERYONE I ruined my IDD appointment completely. First of all I present as neurotic which doesn't help. I knew in my heart to NOT tell him anything about the benzos, the switching, the w/d, etc. OR my PTSD. It changed and influenced what could have been an answer. I brought my ear thermometer to compare with theirs. Mine says I have 100.5 fever today. I do. I feel it. I can tell. His ear thermometer said 99.5

He claimed mine was inaccurate.  He told me I don't have a fever. 99.5 is a low grade fever anyway. If I didn't have fever I wouldn't be freezing when it's brutally hot. I wouldn't feel like the flu. My gut wouldn't be so sick. To look at me you can SEE that I am sick.

 

In 90 to 100 degree weather I am wearing a coat. I cannot eat. I have diarrhea.  No appetite. My pulse was 117 at the doctor and saturation 93. BP was Very high.

 

I completely destroyed a chance of him doing testing to find the cause. He looked at my tests in the last month and said they were fine. HE CHALKED IT UP TO BENZOS AND I KNOW IT'S NOT. I  am extremely sick. Fever is happening believe me. Today fairly high. If I had never mentioned ptsd, w/d anything he would have tried to figure out what's wrong with me.

 

I literally think I am going to die. I am scared and feel hortible.

 

I left in utter shock and disbelief.

 

Bets I already switched straight over to K which scares the shit outta me. I started last night. I do have a gram scale when I have the strength I will look at how to cut. I am already in tolerance. Remember I also cannot eat and am very sick.

 

This is a NIGHTMARE.. I wonder since it's been only 2 doses if I should go back on Valium. I may need to updose K to get stable but I don't want to. I also can't handle tolerance Hell. K is already making me too agitated.

 

What should I do? What would you guys do?

[[Ch...]]

I don't see that full disclosure about the benzo issues was any mistake on your part.  We're always told to make sure our doctors have a complete picture so they can make their best stab at a diagnosis. 

 

I wonder if the ear temps somehow reflect the aural symptoms we can have in withdrawal.  Have you tried a regular thermometer?  Maybe one of the old-fashioned mercury thermometers.  Those are very accurate.

 

Here's a range of normal body temperature…this is from a medical website, forgot which one but all the info on this is pretty much the same:

 

Normal body temperature varies by person, age, activity, and time of day. The average normal body temperature is generally accepted as 98.6°F (37°C). Some studies have shown that the "normal" body temperature can have a wide range, from 97°F to 99°F.

 

A temperature over 100.4°F usually means you have a fever caused by an infection or illness.

 

This doctor thinks high BP, pulse, diarrhea, an inability to eat and chills are normal?  I'd find someone else.

 

I know you're scared, health issues are frightening, especially so in withdrawal when all fears are heightened beyond normal. 

I'd get out the phone book and call someone else.

[[ca...]]

Hi Mozart: I know that you feel as if you are in terrible trouble, and yes, you do have problems with benzos. I am so sorry for this as I know you want to get off this crap. Yes, if truly needed, you can do a direct C/O. But my suggestion would be to do it in two stages. Valium in the morning, and .5 mg of K and night. Then wait a week and make the complete C/O. But do what you feel is best. I'm sorry, but I believe the K will not work for you well anymore, as it has stopped working in the past. Then you might hit tolerance w/d, which is unpleasant. I believe Grinch had to go through that with her Xanax. The best way to cut down the effects of this is to either do titration or a micro taper.  Cut and hold is harsh on your body.

 

I believe I posted this at least four times on KK earlier on. People lost it or were on a different dose so I either had to rewrite it or find it and copy and paste it. I think you know the routine about a dry daily micro taper. But I case you don't, I will go through the process with you again. Ugh.

 

First off, if you don't have one yet, then go onto Amazon and buy a Digital Jewelry Scale GEM20. It costs about $25. Then what you want to do is take  10 .5 mg pill and weigh them in grams. Add up all of those weights and then divide it by 10. That is your average weight. No need to weigh more than 10 pills.

 

So at first you want to be cautious and drop by .001 grams 10 out of 14 days. Hold the other days. If you find this to work out well, and don't have any major s/x, you can cut every day. But wait a few weeks before making this decision. So if your average weight is .170, and all pills weigh by a different amount, then your first cut will be to .169 grams. Even if the pill you are cutting weights something as high as .180 grams, you still need to reach the .169 grams on your first cut. The 2nd cut will be to .168 grams. Remember, you always have to take that other .5 mg in pill form. Don't worry if your average weight in not something like .169 or .170. Everybody comes up with a different average weight. So if you average weight is something like .174 grams, then your first cut will be to .173 grams. Rinse and repeat. Don't forget those hold days. To do this, you cut to the same weight two times. Do this for every hold day. Since cutting just .001 grams, that is a very tiny amount. You will also need to buy a metal finger nail file and an Xacto knife. For your first cut, just make one tiny swipe on the pill and reweigh it. This scale is very sensitive so the numbers will bounce around at first. Wait about a minute when the right weight number does not change. Always weigh the uncut pill first, so you know how many swipes you will have to make. If you find a pill that weighs less then your cut amount, save it and put it into an air tight baggie and in magic marker, put the number on it. You will have to use that later on. Also, save over cut pills and do the same. You will need to use them and then you don't have to cut that pill again. Be very careful on how many swipes you will need. The smaller the weight, the more swipes you will have to make. Eventually, you will need to cut a small portion out with the Xacto knife and then use the metal file to get the correct number. Those pills you may tend to overcut. Again do not throw them out. Save them for later use.

 

Remember to keep you scale on a hard flat surface and keep it away from all electronic devices. Don't move the scale around as you might have to re calibrate it. That is a pain in the neck. You scale will not come with instructions, but you can find the link and print them out. The print appears very tiny, but since I have a hands-on computer, I can just enlarge it with my fingers. I think Bennie or Kgirl know the link.

 

Anther reminder: Don't forget to take that other .5 mg pill at night, as well as your cut pill in the am.! Cut at least 14 pills at a time. Every time the scale shuts off, it will act differently. I cut 30 pills at the same time. To avoid it from shutting off, take the pill you want to cut off the scale, but replace it with another pill. It doesn't mater what that pill weighs, as you are not using it. Don't even bother looking at the number. Always reweigh a pill every time you cut it, to see what the weight of that cut pill is. If it weighs more than you want it to be, then cut again and reweigh it again until you reach the correct number.

 

I keep a log and put down the dates in order, say June 1, June 2, June 3rd, etc. Every time you cut a pill then put it in a baggie, mark it with the weight and then check off your log that the pill on that day has been successfully cut. Even if you overcut a pill, just go down your log and check off that date. At first, it will seem hard, but by the time you cut several pills, you will get the hang of it and it will become much easier. I still over cut pills at times because now I am using the Xacto knife as well as the file so you really have to eye ball it. I just save those over cut pills for later use. The process is very tedious but there is not way around it. Please bookmark this or copy it to a WORD document as I don't want to have to rewrite this. Good luck. I would order the scale ASAP, but it comes pretty fast. I'm sorry the K does work  so you might want to take Xanax as well. :'( Also, I just don't know what advice to give you about the chills. You say you don't have a thyroid problem so that's really good. I had the same situation with very bad chills so I know what you are talking about. But it turned out to be my thyroid so that has gone away. I am so sorry that you have this, especially since you are having a very bad go of it with your benzos. I see you C/Oed to K last night. It didn't seem to work. I am sorry for this. I don't know what else to tell you but if you keep taking Xanax (I don't know whether you have or not), then you will have a double whammy.

 

Hi Lost: I think mrtmeo and Moodle gave you some good advice so I won't repeat it. But I am with them 3X with those replies. Good luck to you. I am sure you will do just fine. Just like Paul said.

 

Hey there Moo: Thanks for asking and the reply back. Yes, my insomnia has pretty much gone away now. It seems the lower I get in my K, the better I sleep. But I've been having a very bad bout of it this past week as my brother, who lives 3,000 miles away from our family, is in serious trouble. We can't help him and he won't accept any family member visits. Since his divorce, he is alone. His daughters have turned on him, and well, his x-wife is completely nasty. So that keeps me up. Keeps the whole family up. Our grass is so green and it keeps growing like mad so we have to have our groundskeeper cut it twice a week. Plus the flowers and trees are booming like mad. I'm sorry you have brown lawns. And the poor animals! Looking for food that they cannot find. Despite our healthy rain, we often find deer, foxes, coyotes and even mountain lions around our back yard. That's why we keep the cats inside. The last one we had was eaten by one of those. We have large woods in our backyard. And Yippee for me. I haven't had a bout on fatigue for a while now. Now that I just said this it will come tomorrow. If you have more waves but less severe ones, I think personally that is a good sign. That means your brain is working very hard to get back to your normalcy. Do I like the Y? Yes and no. I like it because it is a fantastic place with all of the bells and whistles. OTOH, people are starting to take notice of it and are coming in like gangbusters to sign up, so now you have to wait to use a machine. Also, our lovely Merritt Parkway is really an annoyance to me. There are always signs that say workmen ahead, fines doubled, left lane closed, so everything comes to a halt. Yet we eventually realize that there are no workmen, no machines, no nothing. So it is like bad rush hour for no need. I am going to call the DOT today and complain to them. It normally takes me 15 minutes to get there, but with this, it takes me an hour. By then I am already pissed off. I hope you are doing well my friend and keep up the good work. :thumbsup: And hey, may be my shoe doesn't have to drop. It's a wait and see game. An unpleasant one. I'd rather be playing Monopoly.

 

can do:

 

Every V-er here! Have a great day!

Bets

Bets, how many cups of coffee did you drink before typing all this? ~CD

[[be...]]

Mozart: I'm very sorry that your doctor appointment was hellish. Can you see another one to find out the cause of your fever? If it were me, I'd start dialing. Are you sure your thermometer is correct? Usually, doctors have the best ones. If this is true, than 99.5 is just one degree higher than normal. And what is "normal?" Mine is always 96 degrees. Has been for decades. It doesn't worry me. I don't think ear ones are that accurate. I'd take the old fashioned ones any day. I will take your word that you are sick. Remember, that there is still a lot of Valium in your system. It's been one day. If you can't eat, then make sure to drink something like Boost or Ensure. You have to keep eating calories. Is your pulse/ox only 93? Mine is always 99.

 

You just changed your benzo yesterday. Now you are talking about going back on Valium. But you said you cannot take it, so why go back? You have given very little time for your body to adapt. Did the doctor say you need to take a BP med? He should have discussed this with you. You are not going to die. If you are really very scared, and have nobody to turn to, then I would suggest you go to the ER, just for peace of mind. First you were pretty sure that it was the Valium that was causing your fever. If this is the case, it will last until it is out of your system. That will take a while. You seem to be pretty frantic now, and I don't blame you. First, do you want to get a 2nd opinion on your sickness and fever? If so, are you willing to find one and wait for an appointment? Or do you want to get the matter settled, and go to the ER? IMO, you just can't keep hopping back and forth from drug to drug. That will make you even sicker. I would stick with the klonopin for a while and see what happens. Mrtmeo suggested a titration. That is a choice, but not my choice. I much prefer a dry micro taper. I know you visit KK often, so you know people there are doing the dry taper and it working out very well for them. I can't tell you have to taper off xanax, which I don't think you need to do as you have been off it for a while. I would suggest, if available, you have a friend come over or family, and stay with you for a while. Being alone right now isn't good for you. I have a dinner appointment soon, but when I get back I will log in and see your response. Try not to be afraid. This matter will get settled one way or another. You won't die, so please, get that out of your mind. This is your benzo mind that is doing the thinking for you. And a benzo mind is very negative. I know you are sick, so maybe just lay in bed and collect your thoughts and you don't have to make any decision today or even tomorrow. Again, I would stick it out with the K for a while, and please, have someone come over to your house and stay with you. You want to see if the Valium is the cause of your sickness. You won't know that for a while as most of it is still in your system. If you switch back, you might not learn if valium is the cause. I would also suggest you do something to distract yourself. And deep breathing will help if you keep at it. I'll be thinking of you while I eat my dinner. I'll be back..... I am giving you a virtual  :hug:

Bets

[[be...]]

can do: 43 cups.

[[ca...]]

can do: 43 cups.

bets

 

[[mr...]]

BETS AND EVERYONE I ruined my IDD appointment completely. First of all I present as neurotic which doesn't help. I knew in my heart to NOT tell him anything about the benzos, the switching, the w/d, etc. OR my PTSD. It changed and influenced what could have been an answer. I brought my ear thermometer to compare with theirs. Mine says I have 100.5 fever today. I do. I feel it. I can tell. His ear thermometer said 99.5

He claimed mine was inaccurate.  He told me I don't have a fever. 99.5 is a low grade fever anyway. If I didn't have fever I wouldn't be freezing when it's brutally hot. I wouldn't feel like the flu. My gut wouldn't be so sick. To look at me you can SEE that I am sick.

 

 

Moz,

If you really had an infection with fever, your Complete Blood Count (CBC) would show a high White Blood Cell Count.

Years ago, I had gallstone attacks for over 5 years.

I had the chills, nausea and no real fever and felt like I was dying.

I was always cold.

I also, had low bp.

 

Benzo's can effect every part of the human body where the nervous system works and this why symptoms can vary so dramatically from one person to another.

[[li...]]

Mozart,

 

I know how difficult interaction with doctors can be.

 

Ear thermometers are known to be inaccurate.

It could be yours, it could be his. Quite possibly both.

 

Have you tried a different kind of thermometer ?

 

[[li...]]

Okay.

 

I tried a direct switch to diazepam, a brief crossover. Both have given me pause. Since it can take two months to get the stuff out of the body, and I'm concerned about long term dependence/withdrawal.

Sleep is much more difficult on this drug. I need more time to figure this out.

Two completely different drugs.

 

Has anyone actually felt interdose withdrawal  (coming from clonazepam or something else) as an elevated heartbeat ? It just seems something is very wrong. The effects of different drugs and the underlying conditions all mixed up. I could avoid that with three full doses a day, but that would be weird too. No appetite so I don't eat ? Sedation all day ?

 

According to Ashton, it would take two to four months to fully switch from clonazepam to diazepam. I don't take multiple doses, but since these drugs are so different ... I just dont feel like loading up and becoming dependent on yet another problem drug.

I need to give this some thought.

 

In some ways, the hypnotic effects of diazepam seem like a cross between oxazepam and temazepam. Familiar to anyone ?

 

[[Mo...]]

Yes liberty I have a mercury one. Bets the reason I am scared is K gives me agitation. Not calming like V. ParadoFriday. And today I had a strong horrific impulse from it that scared the hell outta me. If I had acted on it I wouldn't be typing right now. It's almost making me psychotic. , o I do NOT want to jump back and forth. I cannot

get a different infectious disease doc. They are the only ones in town. And I know he would mot see me again. It was my only chance for an answer and I destroyed it by telling him anything. He did not pursue ANYTHING else. Not Lyme. Nothing. I called my GI

doc who ordered more stool and blood tests gor me.bi told his nurse what happened. I also made another appointment with my PCP Friday.  I want to tell her to pursue but she doesn't know what to do. Therapist time. I will write more in hour.

[[Sn...]]

I'm sorry to interrupt all this, but because this is the Valium-taper thread, I'd like to ask a Valium-taper question, as I think this is where I'm supposed to go with V-taper questions.

 

Has anyone tapering Valium been on a long-ish hold and seemed to get worse?

 

At 4 mgs I started holding, as my last few tapers down to 4 seemed to be getting harder. I thought a hold would get me strong, and I could continue. But I have gained new symptoms, more frequent, and a lot more anxiety since I began this hold. Each day is more discouraging.

 

Any ideas?

 

(By the way, Liberty, are you on Valium? Your sig looks like you're not, but I figured you are because you're on this thread. What's your dose?)

 

Thank you all in advance!

 

Snow

[[Mo...]]

Snow, I never held more than 10 days. And the odd thing is that some people actually seem to get out of a rut by making a small cut again.

It works different for all us, to use the much loved cliché. But it's true.

I think Smiff had that a few times...

 

I had more anxiety around 3.75 that lasted a while and then it was gone again for next two mgr.

 

 

[[Sn...]]

Snow, I never held more than 10 days. And the odd thing is that some people actually seem to get out of a rut by making a small cut again.

It works different for all us, to use the much loved cliché. But it's true.

I think Smiff had that a few times...

 

I had more anxiety around 3.75 that lasted a while and then it was gone again for next two mgr.

 

Thank you, girlfriend. I've been trying to wait till I felt better (took 11 days the first time), but this is day 13. I might just need to bite the bullet and try to return to micro-cuts. I'm scared!

 

Love,

 

Snow

[[Mo...]]

Snow, I never held more than 10 days. And the odd thing is that some people actually seem to get out of a rut by making a small cut again.

It works different for all us, to use the much loved cliché. But it's true.

I think Smiff had that a few times...

 

I had more anxiety around 3.75 that lasted a while and then it was gone again for next two mgr.

 

Thank you, girlfriend. I've been trying to wait till I felt better (took 11 days the first time), but this is day 13. I might just need to bite the bullet and try to return to micro-cuts. I'm scared!

 

Love,

 

Snow

 

Don't be scared... You'll pull out of it.

Maybe just make a smaller cut that usual and see what happens ...

[[or...]]

Snow, all my holds were super-long (4 weeks, 9 weeks) but that was because I had gotten myself into super messes.

 

You sound like you are just in a mild mess. 

 

So it's day 13 and you don't feel any better. In some ways you feel worse.

 

The thing about holds is that most people feel better after 10-14 days. (I'm just a weird exception). I would hold for another day if it were me, just to make it 14, then if I didn't feel better, I would make a .01 cut.

 

Sometimes as Moo explained, people get themselves out of a rut by making a smallish cut. It seems there's no logic to this  . . . unless Builder can chime in here and explain things.

 

And maybe others who have gotten stuck in holds, and gotten themselves unstuck, will chime in also. 

[[Sn...]]

Snow, all my holds were super-long (4 weeks, 9 weeks) but that was because I had gotten myself into super messes.

 

You sound like you are just in a mild mess. 

 

So it's day 13 and you don't feel any better. In some ways you feel worse.

 

The thing about holds is that most people feel better after 10-14 days. (I'm just a weird exception). I would hold for another day if it were me, just to make it 14, then if I didn't feel better, I would make a .01 cut.

 

Sometimes as Moo explained, people get themselves out of a rut by making a smallish cut. It seems there's no logic to this  . . . unless Builder can chime in here and explain things.

 

And maybe others who have gotten stuck in holds, and gotten themselves unstuck, will chime in also.

 

Great advice, as usual, Kitty-Katz!! I will do as you (and moo) say ... I will hold for 14 days, then resume micro-cuts. If that doesn't work, I'll be back screaming in agony!!

 

Love,

 

Snow

[[Sm...]]

Snow, I never held more than 10 days. And the odd thing is that some people actually seem to get out of a rut by making a small cut again.

It works different for all us, to use the much loved cliché. But it's true.

I think Smiff had that a few times...

 

I had more anxiety around 3.75 that lasted a while and then it was gone again for next two mgr.

 

Yup

 

Hi Snow 

 

I've held for about a month two times. Those times were necessary for particular reasons, and they worked in that situation. That doesn't mean that holding is always the best option. Sometimes, like Moo said, doing a small cut can push you back out of symptoms. At the moment for instance I've held for 4 days. By now I usually start feeling a bit worse - and I am - then I cut again and we are usually back on track.

So yea Snow here is my amazing contentious piece of advice: if it aint working for you at this point then it aint working for you at this point

 

[[Mo...]]

Snow, I never held more than 10 days. And the odd thing is that some people actually seem to get out of a rut by making a small cut again.

It works different for all us, to use the much loved cliché. But it's true.

I think Smiff had that a few times...

 

I had more anxiety around 3.75 that lasted a while and then it was gone again for next two mgr.

 

Yup

 

Hi Snow 

 

I've held for about a month two times. Those times were necessary for particular reasons, and they worked in that situation. That doesn't mean that holding is always the best option. Sometimes, like Moo said, doing a small cut can push you back out of symptoms. At the moment for instance I've held for 4 days. By now I usually start feeling a bit worse - and I am - then I cut again and we are usually back on track.

So yea Snow here is my amazing contentious piece of advice: if it aint working for you at this point then it aint working for you at this point

 

 

Hi Smifferton.

[[Sn...]]

Snow, I never held more than 10 days. And the odd thing is that some people actually seem to get out of a rut by making a small cut again.

It works different for all us, to use the much loved cliché. But it's true.

I think Smiff had that a few times...

 

I had more anxiety around 3.75 that lasted a while and then it was gone again for next two mgr.

 

Yup

 

Hi Snow 

 

I've held for about a month two times. Those times were necessary for particular reasons, and they worked in that situation. That doesn't mean that holding is always the best option. Sometimes, like Moo said, doing a small cut can push you back out of symptoms. At the moment for instance I've held for 4 days. By now I usually start feeling a bit worse - and I am - then I cut again and we are usually back on track.

So yea Snow here is my amazing contentious piece of advice: if it aint working for you at this point then it aint working for you at this point

 

 

Lol. Thank you! As badly as I feel, I've been scared to cut. But I honestly felt better while reducing, so it's back to the taper for me! (After I hit 14 days, just in case!)

 

Thank you, Smiff-y!!

 

Love,

 

Snow

[[Mo...]]

So you guys,

 

Hope you're all ok.

 

I am so bad off my therapist kept me for 2 hours. K is really agitating and paradoxical for me. Trying hard to counteract it with halves of benadryl and some propanolol. Those gave me windows before when I was trying to cut straight from k. I miss the V. I still can't believe by telling the doctor whose help  I needed most about the benzos the w/d and the ptsd that he dismissed me and chalked it ALL up to medication changes instead of eliminating more possibilities which I so badly needed. He didn't order even one test or tell me to come back. I even told him to please not chalk this up to meds or ptsd. All he did was tell me he looked at my fairly recent blood work,  blood cultures, all else and there'sno Iinfection. I was sick years ago and no one found anything and it ended up being an infected tooth that needed a root canal.

 

So now wth am I gonna do? He is the only Infectious Doc here with 2 more in his group. I wish I knew what he would have tested for had he pursued it. Then at least I could ask for those tests from a regular doc. Dammit.  Very very upset.

 

Bets hope you are having a nice dinner out. I don't live alone, don't worry. If I find out Valium gave me fever, then I may know. But I don't know if I can endure the K. It's awful for me making me aggressive, DP and DR, agitated, so not calm. V does not do that. It calmed me at night.

 

I am scared that I will stay so sick and not find the cause.

 

At two doctors offices today:

Pulse 117

BP 168/98

Saturation only 93.

 

If I already told you I am sorry for repeating. Too high, too high, too low.

 

I am at my wit's end.

 

Love you all,

Mo

[[Mo...]]

Bets I switched straight across to the K. Very tough. Please tell me it will level out.

 

As per your cutting instructions I don't understand them too well. How much should each pill weigh after a cut and at what pace would I cut? How long will it take to get off of 1 mg. A day if I can avoid updose? I may need to use a xanax here an  there.  I will try not to, but may HAVE to.

 

Thanks for your help and good wishes. All of you.

 

Mrmteo, things don't always show up on the blood work.  I need to keep looking for the source of this misery.

[[Mo...]]

mo,

I also think it's the back and forth from K to V and you're body is trying to make sense of it all.

If I even took more or less than my dose I'd feel it, so switching must be felt worse than that.

I know it did for me. Took me at least 3  weeks to feel a bit more decent after my cross over. I got slammed really hard and was freezing all the time in the middle of summer.

 

Have you ever wondered when the fever started and when you started Benadryl ?

I am not sure how much of it you take but you are trying to counteract benzo xs with Benadryl ?

 

Your blood work was good. If there was no sign of infection in your blood work... I think any infectious disease dr. Would look at that first, too?

 

If you're worried about it why don't you go see an endodontist and have a scan or X-rays done ?

This seems to be your big worry? So maybe just to make sure and get reassurance so you can cross off one more worry.

To be honest, I'm not sure what else to say about your fever...

 

I think sticking with ONE benzo and stabilize on it before you switch again is the way to go. This ain't working?

 

[[Mo...]]

Moo, it's a nightmare. Way ahead of you. Endodontist appt Monday.  Lol

 

This guy truly dismissed me today. I never should have mentioned anything about any of this.

 

The c/o was the best of all that I had tried. V had drawbacks but not like K. I had to go to K to see if V is causing the fever as per my doctor. Hence the horrific switch. I ran out of choices. Tried Librium first, only one night, allergic reaction. Doc took me off.

 

So you were freezing too huh? Was it constant?  I get chills galore badly, then I burn up.

 

Yes, but the IDD should have done more tests to eliminate more causes. Did nothing.

 

Having to stick with K now is hortible. Makes me feel impulses, rage, agitation, not calm like it did for years. Going through taper with tolerance and paradoxical reaction will be utter Hell. V still in my system and I already feel this bad. Imagine when V is gone? Also DP and DR back with vengeance.  V took that away.

 

Thanks for talking to and helping me. Tell me how YOU are feeling.

 

Luv, M