SNAIL'S PACE TITRATION VS DRY

[[Pe...]]

I Have finally stabilized I believe ,no moe numbness and tingling in lips, toes, fingers, h/a nausea. Photophobia calming down so I fell it must be stabilization fromwhat I have read here. I owe this to valium 10mg crossover from ativan1mg for which I was on briefly 2 mo and tranzene7.5 1 mo before that and xanex.5  4-5 yrs going ct in sept landing me in hospital in nov. with DT symptoms.

My question is should I begin taper now that I feel so much better and what is the best plan to start?

I thought 1mg a month but that would take 10 mo and my GP who knows nothing says slower the better for my brain, but I have heard otherwise here.

I can dry cut with 2mg tablets right? I take 5mg in evening and 5mg in morning 12 hrs apart now.

I really do not want any of the protracted sx's I had before ,if I go slow will my chances improve for a successful taper? I know 10% every14 days  is what I read here but then I read in the ashton manual when down to .5mg of valium go titration.

as you can seee I have lots of questons and some anxiety really it is anticipation anxiety of course.

Thanks for the help

Pennyblue

 

[[Be...]]

I Have finally stabilized I believe ,no moe numbness and tingling in lips, toes, fingers, h/a nausea. Photophobia calming down so I fell it must be stabilization fromwhat I have read here. I owe this to valium 10mg crossover from ativan1mg for which I was on briefly 2 mo and tranzene7.5 1 mo before that and xanex.5  4-5 yrs going ct in sept landing me in hospital in nov. with DT symptoms.

My question is should I begin taper now that I feel so much better and what is the best plan to start?

I thought 1mg a month but that would take 10 mo and my GP who knows nothing says slower the better for my brain, but I have heard otherwise here.

I believe nearly everyone here advocates a slow taper.  Of course, "slow" means different things to different people. 

I can dry cut with 2mg tablets right? I take 5mg in evening and 5mg in morning 12 hrs apart now.

Yes, you can cut those tablets in 1/2s for 1mg doses or in 1/4s for 0.5mg doses.  So, if you wanted to reduce by 10%, you could reduce either your morning ot evening doses to 4.5mg and hold there for a week or two.

I really do not want any of the protracted sx's I had before ,if I go slow will my chances improve for a successful taper? I know 10% every14 days  is what I read here but then I read in the ashton manual when down to .5mg of valium go titration.

as you can seee I have lots of questons and some anxiety really it is anticipation anxiety of course.

Thanks for the help

Pennyblue

 

It's totally understandable that you would be especially apprehensive because of your history.  Myself, I'd probably go with the dry cutting at first and then possibly switch to titration depending on how I felt.  Of course, there's nothing wrong with titrating from 10mg.  You could still reduce by 10% every 10-14 days but just make the reductions in really small amounts every day instead of larger (eg., 0.5mg) cuts every 10-14 days.  And remember, taper plans are meant to be adjusted; they are just plans, not contracts. 

 

[[an...]]

You can do what Beeper suggests or just cut one of the doses to 4.5 mg and keep the other at 5 for a week or two, then cut the other dose to 4.5 mg. 

 

As long as the dry cuts are working, there is no need to think titration. 

 

Decide what you want to do, go for it and see how it goes. 

[[Pe...]]

Dear Beeper and Annie 

Thank you both very much I was kind of thinking the same thing ,start with 4.5mg starting tonight for 2wks and then do the 4.5mg in the am for 2 wks which would be 1mg a month for the first tper month. What is the difference between 10days and 14days? sounds like worlds apart in time?

Being tht valium is long acting and stays in the body when might I feel the dose cut esp when I get down to sml does? Just asking all new to me. I will discuss with my dr. next visit on April 7th so I should have a few extra .5mg's around just in case cause I think she will only give me 1 month at a time.

Thanks for the kind words and I know that the power of positive thinking is key and relaxation when anything strikes. Know that I know what these strange sx/s's are i can handle them alot better. The two months of constant h/a's and nausea and all the tests just about drove me crazy and I realize I will nver have to go back to that cause I do believe that God is at the helm and watching over me again and this site has saved my life with the knowledge that I am armed with now.

I know and feel all the well wishes coming from everyone who has touched me in some way

and I have the grace to know that others suffer and have suffered much more than I.

 

Thanks again and blessings to all

will keep in touch. I sure am looking forward to that first cut tonight!

Beeper I realize thanks that it is not a contract and I will remember that

 

 

[[Pe...]]

Well guys i thought i was on my way tonight with the suggistion of .5 taper of valium 10-14 day in the pm and again in the am in 2 wks well how do you get a .5mg of valium from a 5mg. I tried tonight and got it into 4 fairly equal parts that was 1.25mg right and i1 can not see how I can divide into 8 parts which would be .63 so how does one do this.

I do not see the dr until April 7th have little over two weeks left of 5mg of valium.

Even when I request 2 mg tablets how will I get tht cut into 4ths?

I know better people than me have done this I just need to know h0w?

I have not seen any symptoms of the antibiotic levaquin I took for 6 days and still feel stbilized just trying to figure out the best plan! Is there some kind of pill cutter more superior to mine etc.?

thanks

lost tonight and was ready to start too

Pennyb

[[an...]]

I think Beeper and I both assumed you had 2 mg tablets in hand from your first post.  Oh, well. 

 

1/4 tablet is 2.5 mg, 1/8 is 1.25 mg so that is bigger cut than you probably want ot make right now.

 

The best cut you could make now is to try to shave a small piece off the tablet or crush the tablet, dissolve in a fixed amount of liquid, stir well, take part of the liquid and dump it and drink the rest. 

[[Pe...]]

is that called titration?

How would yu know what .5mg ws fropm the drink?

I need a titration lesson

Thanks

so much

[[el...]]

is that called titration?

How would yu know what .5mg ws fropm the drink?

I need a titration lesson

Thanks

so much

 

Hiya Penny,

 

0.5mg is 1/10th of 5mg.

So mix your 5mg pill in 10oz of milk(or water, but milk works a little better). Mix it well and immediately remove and discard 1 oz of liquid.

This leaves you with 4.5mg valium!

[[Pe...]]

thank you Eljay for the titration schedul.

I went to the dr. today and got enough 2mg valium tablets for the month. So I will break 5mg in half and take one (2.5) with a 2mg valium for totalof 4.5mg for 10 days?

Man I got alecture today fromt eh Dr. She said she has never given Valium in 20 yrs it is so addicting more addicting tht the xanax I was originally on etc, etc, and that with the 1mg a month taper it would take 10 months and that I wouod be completely addicted to the "Very strong valium" and would never get off.

She want s me to start with tapering 1mg at night and 1mg in day time for a 2 mg taper right away for the next month. I hear so many different stories from two different dr,s my head is spining.

 

For God sakes isn't there a Dr, that knows the Ashton Manual here in the states. I would travel anywhere to find one..

She said I made it much worse gong on valium and i said well when I ended in the hospital in nov they are the ones thah shot me full of ativan to stop the shake and bake and she had the nerve to say I do not think it was somatic sx's from the xanax w/d in Sept and tht i have anxiety causing all this. I said I have nothing to be anxious about accept the somatic symptoms that are driving me nuts and that I want off this stuff. I have to go slow and she does not believe I have to.

She said Valium ws much more  addictive than the original .5 of xanax is that true?

and that I will be so addictive if I taper in 10months that I will not be able to come off.

I am going to spend the $15.00 and get the ashton manual and drop it off for her to read.

meanwhile I need a taper schedule now that I have the 2mg of valium.

iF i UNDERSTAND RIGHT IT IS 10% EVERY 10 DAYS THAT WOULD BE 1MG PER DAY (.5 AT NIGHT AND .5 IN AM)

i AM STARTING TONIGHT.

SO i GUESS THAT WOULD BE ABOUT 2MG A MONTH OR SO RIGHT?

THAKS SO MUCH AND pRAY i HAVE A SMOOTH TIME. i HOPE SHE STICKS IT OUT WITH ME TOO.

sHE THINKS i NEED ANXIETY MEDS AND i SAY NO NO NO. tHE lORD AND A NATURAL HEALTHLY LIFE WILL TAKE CARE OF ME FROM NOW ON.

i DO NOT DRINK, SMOKE OR TAKE ANTIDEPRESSENTSETS, JUST ONE LITTLE SLEEPING PILL THAT COST ME ALOT..

sORRY FOR THE CAPS i JUST NOTICED

pENNYBLUE

 

[[Th...]]

Ten percent of 10mg of Valium is 1mg. Your first cut would be 1.0mg, hold there for a week or two. Next cut, 10% of 9mg is .9mg close enough to 1.0mg so cut that amount again and hold for a week or two and so on.

 

Smooth tapering!! 

[[Pe...]]

thank you T2 starting tonight with .5mg in pm and .5 in the am taper for 1mg per day for a week or so. will reevaluate and let you know. the dr scared me today saying I will ruin my self with addiction to valium if I go so slow on a10 month schedule. I don't know yet how I will feel.

I guess 1 mg evry 2wks or so would be about 2mg a month and take 5 months I will have to see if my body will adjust to this.

thanks for everyting.

As long as the dr will stay on board and sees I am serious I will be fine I pray.

when I get down to 5mg a day I will ask for more help as I have read this can be dicy..

sincerely

Pennb

 

[[Pe...]]

my taper experience FIRST CUT YEH

DAY 1

10pm 3/25/09 cut 5mgvalium tablet half(2.5mg) and took 2mg tablet =4.5mg down from 5mg.

 

10am 3/26/09 cut 5mg valium tablet half(2.5mg) and took 2mgtablet=4.5mg down from 5mg.

total cut for today is 1mg of valium.

Valium starting to give me flu like aches and pains, but I had 5 days of levaquin for kidney stone and infection. Prob affected my valium dose for the past 5 days. muscle pain only symptom experiencing.

[[Pe...]]

well weds will be 7 whole days of tapering with 1mg less of Valium.(Started on 10mg)

in .5mg divided doses twice a day.

I have developed kidney problems with passing a stone 7 days after starting the Valium dosing. I read that Valium should be taken with caution if having kidney or liver problems.? Am I being paranoid her? The kidney thing just popped up out of no where no problems before. Could it be the Valium?

I passed the stone on the 17Th and still having kidney pain. Going to Dr. in am again.

my question #2 is should I consider going down only .5mg at this time  in evening or daytime instead of the 1mg. or just go for it and see how I do which would be 2 mg total down in 14 days.?

I realize that the ashton manual recommends 10% 7-14 days but I cannot decide if I should do 7 days or 10 or 14 it seems so much of a spread.

I guess you can see the fear of anticipation since I landed in the hospital with the dt's after only going c/t from .5 of xanax so I am of course afraid of that again and landing on upping to stabilizing again.

Sorry if I am not giving a concise story here hope to do better as I plug along I guess I just need to get past this first month of cuts and see if the headaches, teeth aching, numb lips and fingers etc. return. I am thinking that .5mg taper for one week and .5mg the sec week would be 2mg down totally this month as I said!

But if the Valium is indeed giving me the kidney problems maybe I better consider quicker but then again which is worse kidney or brain/neuro symptoms.

Oh I am so confused and scared.

#3 what experience had people had as to which dose to taper the evening or day dose?

Thanks so much for patience and guidance in advance.

I think this kidney thing is throwing a wrench in an otherwise few weeks of stabilization and thought of clear sailing with this tapering, which I guess is a pipe dream at best.

Naivety is so freeing sometimes until reality slaps you down.

[[Th...]]

Hi Penny,

 

You should try to base on how fast and how much you taper based on how you are feeling. Your first cut of 1mg is right at 10% and it's only been 7 days. How have you been feeling not factoring in the kidney problem?? Since Valium is a long acting benzo, you may want to wait at least 10 days between cuts to be sure the w/d symptoms have cleared. You should be fine cutting 1mg every 10 days for the time being and you may want to switch to .50mg when you get down lower in dose. You can adjust things as you go.

 

T2

[[Pe...]]

thank you T2 I appreciate it and I will stick to the 10 day taper for the time being so in three days I will cut down another 1mg to 8mg per day.

Not sure this is where I ask let me know!

I am having alot of flank pain over the kidney stone area. Urine test and cat scans all say nothing there now. Possibly some swelling from the stone etc. and SDr this am wanted to start me on antiinflamatory which I did not fill as yet. I made a new appoint with the urooligist in am to see if something missed but after reading pdr on valium I see some people have urinary clarance of this drug so wondering if others have experienced alot of muscle spasm over the kidney area and bladder pain?

The stone has thrown a wrench into the mix all together. Not sure if it is valium metabolites or just benzo w/d in general.

Thanks let me know if I have to post this question elsewhere?

Sandy

[[Th...]]

HI Penny,

 

I have seen many, including myself, say they have had flank pain. Mine was located below my right rib cage. Some people have also experienced excessive urination some with pain and some without. It is good to have any bladder infections ruled out.

 

T2

[[Pe...]]

well I think I am getting the hang of the long acting stuff. I am feeling my numb toes hours before my dose is due. tomorrow is 7 days of the first 10%cut,  so will see how it goes by day 10 as you suggested. If I am having w/d and it continues to advance  do I just push thru and cut the 10% or wait to continue stab. until day 12-14? before 2nd cut?

Thanks

Sandy

PennyB

[[Th...]]

well I think I am getting the hang of the long acting stuff. I am feeling my numb toes hours before my dose is due. tomorrow is 7 days of the first 10%cut,  so will see how it goes by day 10 as you suggested. If I am having w/d and it continues to advance  do I just push thru and cut the 10% or wait to continue stab. until day 12-14? before 2nd cut?

Thanks

Sandy

PennyB

 

It is better to wait a few more days to cut to see if you start to stabilize. If you haven't after about 15 days, cutting is usually recommended anyway.

[[Pe...]]

T2 I have felt completely stbalized about 4 dys in and now with allthis stupid pain and Kidney stone stuff

wondering if I am having breakthu tolerance already to valium is that poss on a long acting benzo? I will cert cut anyway at day 14 regardless I am fearless and want out of this hell.

Lots of questions gonfg on in my mind and I know i have to turn it over to god who is untimately in control to some extent after all the research and info searching I have been doing here.

Will I be titrating when I get to  low doses and should I be thinking of getting the 100ml cylinder etc.

thanks T2

I will stop obsessing now.

That walk and the 2 motrins and the positive thoughts have helped with this flank pain and I won't get out the vacuum cleaner tonight ha 

thanks so much for your time

PennyB

[[Th...]]

Hi Penny,

 

I don't really think you are having break through tolerance. I just think it is simply a w/d symptom, it may stay with you for a while then dissipate and even possibly return. There is no rhyme or reason with these symptoms.

 

Most people are able to direct taper from Valium since you can make really small cuts with the 2mg pills but titration can always be a back up solution if needed. 

 

T2

[[Pe...]]

Thanks and good nite T2 and Spoiled Snot

I know my body is not going to do anything the easy way it never has my whole life.

PennyB

[[Th...]]

Thanks and good nite T2 and Spoiled Snot

I know my body is not going to do anything the easy way it never has my whole life.

PennyB

 

:sleepy: Good night!!

[[Pe...]]

Well just checking in finally to update  my taper situation. Aftert that kidney situation that lasted for several weeks of hell and lots of tests oan rt flank pain. Nothing further showed up except the original stone I passed on March 17th. Made 1st cut of 1mg valium (10)% on March 25th and stuck to that in divided does twice a day.

2nd cut  10 days later I only did .5mg a day taking me down to 8,5mg. I just had to give this flank situation a rest and it did help and I finally stabalized about 5 days later.

I still feel the valium is playing havoc with my bladder since I have allery /food problems with my bladder anyway and live on pyridium for bladder pain. this pain is constant no matter what I eat so I feel it is the Valium since that is the only new thing in my life right now.

Ok Ready for my third taper coming up on 10 days on the 14th.

Question do I  stick to .5mg drop instead of 1mg as I sure felt better with only .5mg a day instead of 1 mg drop.

Second question do I drop it in the evening dose of am does. I tried the evening dose on the second cut and woke up with a really bad headache each morning. What do you recommend with the 8.5mg I have left in dosing schedule? I feel 10 days is good for me at this point.

I realize that the longer I am on Valium the more miserable I am in the bladder department and the pain under my rib but the neurological stuff is not here at the moment. Numbness/tinglng/numb lips was all tht just short acting Benzo withdrawal stuff or will I experience it again when I get lower on the valium.? Lots of questions as you can tell.

Mild depression is my constant conpanion reason for my break from the site. But I thank everyone for their support and I feel stronger again after all the kidney crap and reality hitting me in the face that this is not going to be a piece of cake no matter how slow I go.

Thanks for suggestions

Pennyblue

 

[[Th...]]

Question do I  stick to .5mg drop instead of 1mg as I sure felt better with only .5mg a day instead of 1 mg drop.

Second question do I drop it in the evening dose of am does. I tried the evening dose on the second cut and woke up with a really bad headache each morning. What do you recommend with the 8.5mg I have left in dosing schedule? I feel 10 days is good for me at this point.

 

Hi Pennyblue,

 

If .5mg works better for you, that's fine. It will just take longer to taper, if that's okay?? Some are able to taper .50mg every week or 1mg every two weeks, so that is an option also.

 

As far as what dose to drop, it is usually good to keep your doses even but if you have sleep issues, you may want to keep the evening dose a little more.

 

T2

[[Pe...]]

Hi T2

I would like to keep the taper doses even but can't figure out how feel better with a total of .5mg daily instead of 1 mg daily so when I do the .5 off of one dose I suffer either first thing in the am with waking up with a headache or later in the day waiting for the evening dose. I thouht with long acting valim I would not feel the taper w/d right away but I do. Anyway I am a big baby right now.

so I thought maybe if I did it in .25mg increments both does (am,Pm) would that make any difference in the ultimate total in a day but less per dose. (Sorry an ex-nurse who is cluless to ones own misery ha)

How do I get to lower does with the 2mg pill? I have a cutter but it does not really cut evenly. are their better ones or can I ask the pharm to split into bubble packs of .25 is this a stupid question?

I m obsessing now. I better go for a walk. I've been on the site this am to long. Trying in the am instead of the pm.

Ha

Hope you are having a great day whereever you are it is raining here in the east!

Pennyblue