I Can't Take It Anymore!!! Klonopin Raipid Taper Fail!

[[In...]]

Skyzone,

 

Good luck for sure. I really feel titration from K is probably the best way. It's just my opinion, but cutting those pills down so low seems practically impossible to me.

 

I hear the scale method works well also, but I'll do titration.

 

We just need ourselves back again. It's my strongest wish this early morning.

 

Intend

[[pe...]]

Can you discuss the scale method?  I assume a scale that weighs increments as small (or smaller) than 0.1mg would be rather expensive.

 

 

[[In...]]

PD,

 

The one person I know who uses it (and there are others) is Bluebell, a member here. She has successfully used a Gemini scale which I understand is quite accurate, and she is very good at it.

 

She is usually to be found on the Xanax support blog. I also Think Hope1962, senior moderator is using a scale. You could contact her through the help desk as I don't know if a PM would go through. But I would first try to PM her and Bluebell for sure. Both know their stuff.

 

Also you could do a new post on the general taper boards asking for info. That will get a multitude of responses.

 

Intend

[[Sk...]]

Hi Perfect Daughter,

 

I think the info you provided me in an earlier post was quite accurate and valuable.  I have no choice but to taper through titration.  I am going to put a pill in the blender with whole milk and measure doses that way.  It sure seems to beat the whole pill cutting thing.  It's just so strenuous to cut a pill in 1/16ths of 1 pill.  Ether way, I wish you best of luck with whatever you decide.  I am here for you if you need. 

 

-SkyZone-

 

Can you discuss the scale method?  I assume a scale that weighs increments as small (or smaller) than 0.1mg would be rather expensive.

[[In...]]

Good plan Skyzone. Those pills are unreal to cut IMO. I successfully cut them into eighths (the .5 Mg pill, but the 1 Mg is no piece of cake either).

 

It's hard to fathom cutting any of them into sixteenths.

 

Suggestion for your titration: you can put a pill in milk overnight in a measured amount of milk in the refrigerator. Then it will dissolve. Agitate a little and let settle. Pour into your dosing jars for the day.

You can use the blender also. I bought a bullet blender (small, made to mix up drinks individually) at Macys last December just for this purpose.

 

Just be sure to let all the bubbles from blending settle before pouring, and rinse it after pouring and drink the rinse water to get all the med.

 

Also remember to do your first liquid titration without withdrawing any cut for awhile as going from pills to liquid is considered a cut. I'd give it about 10 days before starting to withdraw from the liquid with your syringe. Maybe someone else has other suggestions. This is just what I know.

 

Good luck. Keep posting on KKlub so we know how your doing.

 

Intend

[[Sk...]]

Good plan Skyzone. Those pills are unreal to cut IMO. I successfully cut them into eighths (the .5 Mg pill, but the 1 Mg is no piece of cake either).

 

It's hard to fathom cutting any of them into sixteenths.

 

Suggestion for your titration: you can put a pill in milk overnight in a measured amount of milk in the refrigerator. Then it will dissolve. Agitate a little and let settle. Pour into your dosing jars for the day.

You can use the blender also. I bought a bullet blender (small, made to mix up drinks individually) at Macys last December just for this purpose.

 

Just be sure to let all the bubbles from blending settle before pouring, and rinse it after pouring and drink the rinse water to get all the med.

 

Also remember to do your first liquid titration without withdrawing any cut for awhile as going from pills to liquid is considered a cut. I'd give it about 10 days before starting to withdraw from the liquid with your syringe. Maybe someone else has other suggestions. This is just what I know.

 

Good luck. Keep posting on KKlub so we know how your doing.

 

Intend

 

Thank You, Intend.  I appreciate your advice.  This is one battle that will be won! 

 

-SkyZone-

[[Sk...]]

I am still unsure how to titrate correctly when I  am due for my next dose reduction.  I want to do it but I want to do it the right way.

 

-SkyZone-

[[In...]]

Skyzone,

 

To get an idea of a titration schedule, go to www.benzosupport.org. On the left of the page is a menu, and pick "water titration."

 

Go down the page to "A PowerPoint Overview." There are 3 options to pick, and pick the one in the middle which is "A PowerPoint demo of creating a schedule." It's says "click here" so do that.

 

It brings up an example of a water titration schedule for klonopin where they are using water as the liquid and dropping the cut daily by pulling out 2 mls. Per day of liquid with an oral syringe.

 

This is just an example, but it shows how you can do it. The whole site has a ton of info. They are also using some pills during the daily dose and titrating part of the rest of the dose.

 

I happen to believe that milk should be the liquid, that all the daily dose should be put into the liquid and then divided up for even doses during the day in individual jars, and that the cut should be much smaller than 2 mls. But this is a good way to get the idea.

 

It shows how you can change the cut (the part you pull out with the oral syringe) just by increasing or decreasing the amount of liquid you are using. If you click on other parts of the original page, it will take you to other schedules where different doses of benzo are used alng with different amounts of water and different amounts that are withdrawn.

 

Look all this over. I just think it's a very good way to get the idea of how to titrate for starting out. They get their "mgs dropped" per day to be very small by varying the amount of water from schedule to schedule. That's how to get a very small, safe drop with little symptomology. This is true micro tapering. It can take awhile and you drop everyday by the same amount, not every few days or every week, or every 2 weeks. It's every day by a small amount.

 

If you experience sx that get hard to handle, you increase your liquid which drops your daily dose cut for a few days, and just hold on that lower dose until you feel better.

 

Ok, enough for now. This is a lot of info here. Hope you can study it and get a better idea.

 

Intend

 

 

 

 

 

[[Sk...]]

Thanks for this, Intend.

[[pe...]]

SkyZone,

 

I read your progress log and see you are still jumping around a lot on your doses...don't forget it is imperative to give your body time to adjust to the new dose you've dropped down to.  It takes up to 10 days for the old Klonopin dose to completely clear out of your body, so you should probably wait at least 14 days between doses to give your body a chance to adjust before you make a dose cut.

 

I know you are determined to get off these benzos as fast as possible, unfortunately with benzos...it's the slow pace that wins the race.  You have been trying to do a fast taper for months now and you have always ended up back where you started.  I know when you were younger you very lucky (blessed) to have been able to 'cold turkey' off of 6mg of klonopin with no noticable withdrawal symptoms, but it appears that your body is not going to tolerate that sort of 'shock' this time!

 

According to Ashton, it's the percentage drop that counts, not the amount in mg.  Your body may tolerate more than a 10% drop, so that's not to say you can't attempt to go faster according to how your body responds.  But I just hate to see you suffering through these terribe withdrawal symptoms only to end up back where you started. 

 

I also noticed you posted somewhere that you recently quit drinking...that's great!    Alcohol really messes with your benzo level and could be another reason you are having difficulty tapering:

 

Question: Can I drink alcohol during or after withdrawal?

 

Answer: No. You should not drink any alcohol. Alcohol is cross tolerant with benzodiazepines and is benzo like. Many people find that alcohol usage causes a return or worsening of withdrawal symptoms the days and weeks after exposure to alcohol. This becomes even more of a problem once a person is low down on benzo dosage or in withdrawal. If you want to recover from benzodiazepines it is strongly advised that alcohol is avoided entirely and for quite some time after full recovery.

(http://www.non-benzodiazepines.org.uk/benzo-faq.html#Question8)

 

Remember to listen to what you 'doctor within' is telling you.  Keep the faith...God will get you through this!   

 

perfect daughter 

[[Sk...]]

SkyZone,

 

I read your progress log and see you are still jumping around a lot on your doses...don't forget it is imperative to give your body time to adjust to the new dose you've dropped down to.  It takes up to 10 days for the old Klonopin dose to completely clear out of your body, so you should probably wait at least 14 days between doses to give your body a chance to adjust before you make a dose cut.

 

I know you are determined to get off these benzos as fast as possible, unfortunately with benzos...it's the slow pace that wins the race.  You have been trying to do a fast taper for months now and you have always ended up back where you started.  I know when you were younger you very lucky (blessed) to have been able to 'cold turkey' off of 6mg of klonopin with no noticable withdrawal symptoms, but it appears that your body is not going to tolerate that sort of 'shock' this time!

 

According to Ashton, it's the percentage drop that counts, not the amount in mg.  Your body may tolerate more than a 10% drop, so that's not to say you can't attempt to go faster according to how your body responds.  But I just hate to see you suffering through these terribe withdrawal symptoms only to end up back where you started. 

 

I also noticed you posted somewhere that you recently quit drinking...that's great!    Alcohol really messes with your benzo level and could be another reason you are having difficulty tapering:

 

Question: Can I drink alcohol during or after withdrawal?

 

Answer: No. You should not drink any alcohol. Alcohol is cross tolerant with benzodiazepines and is benzo like. Many people find that alcohol usage causes a return or worsening of withdrawal symptoms the days and weeks after exposure to alcohol. This becomes even more of a problem once a person is low down on benzo dosage or in withdrawal. If you want to recover from benzodiazepines it is strongly advised that alcohol is avoided entirely and for quite some time after full recovery.

(http://www.non-benzodiazepines.org.uk/benzo-faq.html#Question8)

 

Remember to listen to what you 'doctor within' is telling you.  Keep the faith...God will get you through this!   

 

perfect daughter

 

Thanks, PerfectDuaguter.

 

I have so many questions in my mind about all of this.  Right now I just hope I make the right decisions and not the wrong ones.  I know I will get through this though.  It's just a matter of when...  But now, enough about me.  I hope you are doing well and I am pulling for you and your recovery.  Happy posting! 

 

-SkyZone-

[[re...]]

Skyzone

 

Print off the ashton manual and take it to your dr.

 

I just spoke to my shrink and point blank asked - do you believe in the ashton manual. Yes - they use the ashton manual all the time - when tapering people off high doses of benzos.  Such as 10 mg of ativan!

 

OMG - I would be in the grave if I took that amount.  That shows you what happens when people are on benzos for 20 years.  They slowly increase their dosage - because of the phyiscal dependency.  Can you imagine what that would be doing to the Gabba in your brain?

 

I have switched from my .5g of ativan - to .25 mg of klonazepam - and am hoping I can taper from this and not have withdrawal.  my dr. won't switch to valium - she sees no point.  It's bothering my breathing - but I have to put up with it for now.  It feels awful - but I'm hoping to be able to taper down to a smaller dose - and see how it goes.

 

Be patient - and get off the benzo if you can.

 

[[Sk...]]

Skyzone

 

Print off the ashton manual and take it to your dr.

 

I just spoke to my shrink and point blank asked - do you believe in the ashton manual. Yes - they use the ashton manual all the time - when tapering people off high doses of benzos.  Such as 10 mg of ativan!

 

OMG - I would be in the grave if I took that amount.  That shows you what happens when people are on benzos for 20 years.  They slowly increase their dosage - because of the phyiscal dependency.  Can you imagine what that would be doing to the Gabba in your brain?

 

I have switched from my .5g of ativan - to .25 mg of klonazepam - and am hoping I can taper from this and not have withdrawal.  my dr. won't switch to valium - she sees no point.  It's bothering my breathing - but I have to put up with it for now.  It feels awful - but I'm hoping to be able to taper down to a smaller dose - and see how it goes.

 

Be patient - and get off the benzo if you can.

 

Thank You    I am going to do whatever it takes to get off of the benzo I am on.  If I have no choice but to titrate, then I will, or hopefully my doctor would be willing to cross me over to valium or a dry taper might work just fine.  I suppose time will tell.

 

-SkyZone-

[[Sk...]]

I may have to dry cut taper soon.  I don't know how well my body is coping with titration.  It is a slow agonizing process.  !!    !!  This is one of the most difficult things I have ever tried to do in my life.  Even if I wanted to stay on the benzo,.. I am already tolerant to my regular dose and feel like the only way to get my life back is to quit somehow.  SOMEHOW!!  But How?  Already I have been through 3 or 4 titration failed attempts and several dry cutting failed attempts.  It seems to be getting harder and harder now to reduce dose or even on a higher dose.  It is all the same.  i think I am in tolerance withdraw now bad.  I was even thinking about a medical detox.  Checking myself into a rehab.  Like a 28 day program or something.  But what about PAWS.  Oh, No.  This is just horrible.  How can this be allowed to happen to us? I don't even know what to do anymore.

[Guest [St...]]

Don't despair Zone.  You ARE doing this.  Each and every day is testament to that.  Maybe give the dry cutting a go, I know that's not popular advice round here, but for me titrating, MT or daily cutting, (whatever you want to call it) made me hypersensitive to even the tiniest of dose reduction, whereas with dry cutting I can make a large deep cut, feel like absolute crappola for 3-4 days then it's over until the next cut.  I get a good break in between, which allows me to cope.

 

You know I've been so desperate to kick this stuff, I've tried 2 medical detox centres and all I can say is please, please DON'T.

 

If you think you know pain now, man your world is going to crush down on you in a detox centre, brutal.  Absolutely brutal. 

 

Can you not change to Valium?  Again, may not be a popular suggestion, but for me it ripped me out of tolerance/relative withdrawal within a matter of days after changing over and has made things manageable.

 

We are all here for you Zone.  Think long and hard about where to next.  I know you are a believer, so maybe you'll be given a sign.

 

On a side note, I wouldn't be thinking about PAWS, worry about that when and only IF it happens.  Don't give it any power right now, you have enough to deal with.  Remember your mind rules your world..  How this is allowed to happen, well we all know it should never happen, but it does.

 

Stay strong.

 

Staffy

[[Sk...]]

Thanks Staffy.  Now, I am off to an N.A meeting where I will feel like I am a drug addict. 

Thanks for the encouragement though.  You are rite.

[[pe...]]

I'm getting extremely frustrated too!  My signature isn't even right anymore.  I've been jumping around on doses all over the place on my klonopin and playing around with doses of xanax in the middle of it trying to find a way to get more sleep.  But I think all these extra crazy doses I'm doing are helping me very little and only messing up my gaba receptors even more.  I've got to back to a steady stable state on one benzo.  I took a nap in the late afternoon yesterday and then couldn't sleep during the night.  In a desperate attempt to sleep  I took a total of 4mg of klonopin and I made the mistake of reporting that to my family.  Now my family thinks I'm a danger to myself and are thinking about taking drastic measures.  I seem to have built up a tolerance to all the herbs and over the counter remedies I've tried for sleep and nothing is working anymore.  I hate the thought of having to go months and months with only a few hours of sleep per night, even though I know there are people that have had to endure that to get off their benzo. 

 

I would like to at least give a valium crossover a try because I might sleep better with that medication and insomnia is one of my most distressing symptoms right now.  I just feel like I'm never going to make it through this and am afraid I'm going to end up in a psych hospital if things don't get better.  I feel like I don't know what to do anymore either.  :'(

[[Sk...]]

I'm getting extremely frustrated too!  My signature isn't even right anymore.  I've been jumping around on doses all over the place on my klonopin and playing around with doses of xanax in the middle of it trying to find a way to get more sleep.  But I think all these extra crazy doses I'm doing are helping me very little and only messing up my gaba receptors even more.  I've got to back to a steady stable state on one benzo.  I took a nap in the late afternoon yesterday and then couldn't sleep during the night.  In a desperate attempt to sleep  I took a total of 4mg of klonopin and I made the mistake of reporting that to my family.  Now my family thinks I'm a danger to myself and are thinking about taking drastic measures.  I seem to have built up a tolerance to all the herbs and over the counter remedies I've tried for sleep and nothing is working anymore.  I hate the thought of having to go months and months with only a few hours of sleep per night, even though I know there are people that have had to endure that to get off their benzo. 

 

I would like to at least give a valium crossover a try because I might sleep better with that medication and insomnia is one of my most distressing symptoms right now.  I just feel like I'm never going to make it through this and am afraid I'm going to end up in a psych hospital if things don't get better.  I feel like I don't know what to do anymore either.  :'(

Oh, My dear friend,... It hurts me to see you hurting too.  This is just horrible!  I am going to call a doctor tomorrow and try ti get a valium crossover somehow.  I think that might work.  I sure hope so.  If not, I will just have to dry cut on my own, but that sucks!  I know God is with us but why so much suffering when I was just starting to get my life together.  :'( .  Let's keep praying for each other.  Okay?  I know we both will get through this with God's help.  God won't let us down.