I Can't Take It Anymore!!! Klonopin Raipid Taper Fail!

[[In...]]

I'm recommending you consider liquid titration. Personally I DO NOT find the clonazepam pills easy to cut at all.

 

I am crossing over to clonazepam from Xanax and must cut both as I increase C and decrease X. The X pills are easy to cut using knife or pill cutter, but the C tabs are very difficult. I admire anyone who can go "way down" by dry cutting on C as I find all the scores on the pills to be "wanna be scores."

 

When I am finally on C, (and I'm close) and feel relatively stable, I plan on liquid titration using milk and oral syringes. Although I have yet to try this, I feel well informed on this and as Flip says, it should easily become second hand nature. Requires very little equipment, and uncomplicated.

 

I often think (although I could be wrong) that folks often rapid taper using large cuts from C because it is so hard to dry cut.

 

Consider titration. Just my suggestion.

 

Intend

[[sn...]]

Hey Skyzone, I'm sorry for all the difficulties you're having. I guess they say, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, Definitely not aimed at you or anyone It seems you have changed your game plan. That makes good sense. I think you'll be much more comfortable with your new taper plan. I wish you the best!

 

snoball

[[Sk...]]

Thank You, Snowball.  I have decited to go with my taper plan of going down 0.25mg every 30 days.  I feel fully confident with this taper plan.  I really do.  Titration just seems like too much trouble and I truly feel that the 0.25mg dose reduction down every 30 days will work for me. I really don't mind minimal to moderate withdraw symptoms. 

 

Hey Skyzone, I'm sorry for all the difficulties you're having. I guess they say, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, Definitely not aimed at you or anyone It seems you have changed your game plan. That makes good sense. I think you'll be much more comfortable with your new taper plan. I wish you the best!

 

snoball

[[IG...]]

Hi Skyzone, When I was going up and down on my meds they told me to stay on the perscribed dose for at least 2 weeks to stabilize. I know you want to get off this stuff but your going awful fast again. I actually had someone else hold onto my pills those 2 weeks so I did'nt take extra. It was kind of scary not to be able to take an extra one when needed but it turned out it really helped me.

[[Sk...]]

I was going fast for just a little while, so my body could adjust to start a new plan from the beginning of 2mgs/day.  I was going to start at 1.75, but I am going to start at 2mg/day.  I will not be taking any extra doses and will stick to 0.25mg down every 30 days.  My original plan for 30 days each cut worked until I started to go too fast.  So I am sure this plan will work, as long as I stick to it. 

 

-SkyZone-

 

 

Hi Skyzone, When I was going up and down on my meds they told me to stay on the perscribed dose for at least 2 weeks to stabilize. I know you want to get off this stuff but your going awful fast again. I actually had someone else hold onto my pills those 2 weeks so I did'nt take extra. It was kind of scary not to be able to take an extra one when needed but it turned out it really helped me.

[[pe...]]

I am really concerned that once you get close to the last 1mg that cutting by 0.25mg at a time (even with 30 days in between) will be too fast of a drop for your body to adjust.  From what I have been learning...the slower pace of closer to 10% cuts gets you to your goal faster and is much easier on your body.  I'm like you...I am very impatient to get off of this drug.  But I also don't want to end up cutting too fast and then end up having to go back up to a higher dose.  Cutting too fast also puts you at risk of a protracted withdrawal syndrome (http://www.benzo.org.uk/pha-1.htm). 

 

I deeply empathize with what you are going through.  I feel horrible every time I put that drug in my mouth and know that I am doing harm to my body.  But at the same time, I risk doing additional harm if I go too fast.  Just something to think about.

 

perfect daughter

 

[[Sk...]]

Thank You, but when I do get to a lower dose, how would I be able to do smaller cuts easily?  I have heard of titration, but it seems so difficult.  If I were to be able to split my final doses by 0.125mg/day, that would be better?

 

I am really concerned that once you get close to the last 1mg that cutting by 0.25mg at a time (even with 30 days in between) will be too fast of a drop for your body to adjust.  From what I have been learning...the slower pace of closer to 10% cuts gets you to your goal faster and is much easier on your body.  I'm like you...I am very impatient to get off of this drug.  But I also don't want to end up cutting too fast and then end up having to go back up to a higher dose.  Cutting too fast also puts you at risk of a protracted withdrawal syndrome (http://www.benzo.org.uk/pha-1.htm). 

 

I deeply empathize with what you are going through.  I feel horrible every time I put that drug in my mouth and know that I am doing harm to my body.  But at the same time, I risk doing additional harm if I go too fast.  Just something to think about.

 

perfect daughter

[[IG...]]

Maybe don't worry about the smaller cuts right now, you have time to worry about that another day. That worked for me.   Remember God will get you through this. 

[[Sk...]]

Thank You so much.        I have to remember that.

 

Maybe don't worry about the smaller cuts right now, you have time to worry about that another day. That worked for me.   Remember God will get you through this. 

[[pe...]]

0.125 would definitely be better, but still may not be small enough after several cuts...here's how the percentages work out starting with a 1mg pill:

 

1.0 mg cut by 0.125 = 0.875mg = 12.5%

0.875mg cut by 0.125 = 0.75mg = 14.3%

0.75mg cut by 0.125 = 0.625mg = 16.7%

0.625mg cut by 0.125 = 0.50mg = 20.0%

0.50mg cut by 0.125 = 0.375mg = 25%

0.375mg cut by 0.125 = 0.25mg = 33.3%

0.25mg cut by 0.125 = 0.125mg = 50%

ETC.

 

I guess you need to see how your body adusts to each cut as the percentage keeps increasing.  I'm just beginning to start my taper, so I don't have a lot of experience yet knowing how much of a cut my body will tolerate.  But right now, my goal is not to go above a 15% cut.  If my body tolerates 15% without any problems, I may go as high as a 20% cut, but I don't plan on going any higher than a 20% cut.

 

I briefly reviewed the titration method (http://www.benzobuddies.org/benzodiazepine-withdrawal-methods/titration/) and I know there is some work involved with that.  There is a post about using a compounding pharmacy to do the titration work for you (http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=57756.0) but it sounds like you have to have your doctors involvement with arranging that.

 

Since the smallest tablet that I know of that is available for klonopin is 0.5mg, it just doesn't seem like there is any other option than titration for the lower doses.  I would also like to know if anyone has found another method that works for this.  I'll check into this and let you know if I find any good information.

 

Just try not to get discouraged...that is my biggest struggle...we will get through this difficult season of our lives with Gods help!

 

 

[[Sk...]]

Oh.. Common now.  Really?  I will never do dose reductions that tiny. With all respect to you,..  It's just flat out ridiculous to me.  .  I don't mind going through some minor to moderate withdraw symptoms to avoid such a strenuous reduction method  Thanks though. But if I am wrong, then I will for sure have no choice but to taper like you say. ether way, I also am sure that God will get us through this. 

 

0.125 would definitely be better, but still may not be small enough after several cuts...here's how the percentages work out starting with a 1mg pill:

 

1.0 mg cut by 0.125 = 0.875mg = 12.5%

0.875mg cut by 0.125 = 0.75mg = 14.3%

0.75mg cut by 0.125 = 0.625mg = 16.7%

0.625mg cut by 0.125 = 0.50mg = 20.0%

0.50mg cut by 0.125 = 0.375mg = 25%

0.375mg cut by 0.125 = 0.25mg = 33.3%

0.25mg cut by 0.125 = 0.125mg = 50%

ETC.

 

I guess you need to see how your body adusts to each cut as the percentage keeps increasing.  I'm just beginning to start my taper, so I don't have a lot of experience yet knowing how much of a cut my body will tolerate.  But right now, my goal is not to go above a 15% cut.  If my body tolerates 15% without any problems, I may go as high as a 20% cut, but I don't plan on going any higher than a 20% cut.

 

I briefly reviewed the titration method (http://www.benzobuddies.org/benzodiazepine-withdrawal-methods/titration/) and I know there is some work involved with that.  There is a post about using a compounding pharmacy to do the titration work for you (http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=57756.0) but it sounds like you have to have your doctors involvement with arranging that.

 

Since the smallest tablet that I know of that is available for klonopin is 0.5mg, it just doesn't seem like there is any other option than titration for the lower doses.  I would also like to know if anyone has found another method that works for this.  I'll check into this and let you know if I find any good information.

 

Just try not to get discouraged...that is my biggest struggle...we will get through this difficult season of our lives with Gods help!

[[Sk...]]

But thank you.  I do appreciate you taking the time to reply and provide me with all of the information.  Thank You. 

 

If I start to have unbearable symptoms with a larger cut, then I will, for sure take the advice.  I don't mean to undermind your method of tapering.  Please don't take my comment the wrong way.

Blessings to you. 

 

-SkyZone-

 

0.125 would definitely be better, but still may not be small enough after several cuts...here's how the percentages work out starting with a 1mg pill:

 

1.0 mg cut by 0.125 = 0.875mg = 12.5%

0.875mg cut by 0.125 = 0.75mg = 14.3%

0.75mg cut by 0.125 = 0.625mg = 16.7%

0.625mg cut by 0.125 = 0.50mg = 20.0%

0.50mg cut by 0.125 = 0.375mg = 25%

0.375mg cut by 0.125 = 0.25mg = 33.3%

0.25mg cut by 0.125 = 0.125mg = 50%

ETC.

 

I guess you need to see how your body adusts to each cut as the percentage keeps increasing.  I'm just beginning to start my taper, so I don't have a lot of experience yet knowing how much of a cut my body will tolerate.  But right now, my goal is not to go above a 15% cut.  If my body tolerates 15% without any problems, I may go as high as a 20% cut, but I don't plan on going any higher than a 20% cut.

 

I briefly reviewed the titration method (http://www.benzobuddies.org/benzodiazepine-withdrawal-methods/titration/) and I know there is some work involved with that.  There is a post about using a compounding pharmacy to do the titration work for you (http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=57756.0) but it sounds like you have to have your doctors involvement with arranging that.

 

Since the smallest tablet that I know of that is available for klonopin is 0.5mg, it just doesn't seem like there is any other option than titration for the lower doses.  I would also like to know if anyone has found another method that works for this.  I'll check into this and let you know if I find any good information.

 

Just try not to get discouraged...that is my biggest struggle...we will get through this difficult season of our lives with Gods help!

[[pe...]]

I'm definitely no expert on tapering off benzos, but I know the Ashton Manual was developed by an expert on benzos with a lot of clinical experience, so I'm basing my information on that.  Hopefully you're right and that once we get down to the lower doses, the larger percentage cuts will be better tolerated.  I'll be interested in watching your progress...hopefully all goes well! 

[[Sk...]]

Thank You, Perfect.

 

I will also be interested in how your taper goes as well.  I am no expert on tapering ( as you can see from my signature below),    I guess I just want this to be over with ASAP.  I don't mind going through some minor to moderate withdraw symptoms as a sacrifice to be off of the k sooner.  It's not like I am going cold turkey or even a rapid withdraw,( which I tried and failed).

Best of luck and blessings in your recovery.

 

-SkyZone-

 

I'm definitely no expert on tapering off benzos, but I know the Ashton Manual was developed by an expert on benzos with a lot of clinical experience, so I'm basing my information on that.  Hopefully you're right and that once we get down to the lower doses, the larger percentage cuts will be better tolerated.  I'll be interested in watching your progress...hopefully all goes well!

[[In...]]

I feel like I may be interfering here, but for informations sake, it's important to know some facts.

 

Generally speaking, everyone wants off benzos NOW once they make the decision.

 

Also, it is well known through anecdotal evidence (plenty of folks here on BB and elsewhere) that a reasonably slow taper will protect you from much discomfort once you do get completely off.

 

Lastly, it would appear that with each successive unsuccessful taper (where you keep having to start again), the new taper often brings more uncomfortable w/d sx even if you do go slower and smaller with your cuts. It's better to stay where you are for a bit and make up a sensible plan before again launching into it, only to have to start again.

 

If you haven't been on a benzo very long (weeks to several months), these "rules may not apply. Otherwise, good forward planning can really help. Titration is not hard. Some of these videos here on BB and YouTube make it appear way more complicated than it is. All you really need is some small jars (jam, or baby food), oral syringes, pills, and milk. Nothing else.

 

Intend

[[Ge...]]

I have yet to hear from anyone who has experience jumping successfully from klonopin, to hear what is a reasonable dose to jump from.  For me, .03125 (1/4 of a .125 wafer) is still the equivalent of .625 mg valium, and I've seen a lot of people here having trouble trying to get off even that dose.

 

Another thing that came up in a thread here involves the long half-life of klonopin, and the levels in the blood after a month.  It's really high - something like four times the current dose.  So jumping at .03125 would still leave somewhere around .125 still in the bloodstream.

 

I haven't figured out the way around that one yet, other than resignation that I really will have to titrate at some point. I know it's not as hard as it seems, but it just seems like a pain in the neck to me.  I get aggravated every time I have to get out the pill cutter, for goodness sake!

[[Sk...]]

[[In...]]

Genoa,

 

I don't know about jumping from a benzo, but it does not appear, from what I read, to be a good thing to do if not necessary, particularly at the levels you describe.

 

As far as the length of time of K in ones body, well I do have experience with that. I attempted last fall and winter to transition from Xanax to K and had difficulty due to high X affinity for the GABA receptors. My doctor switched me back to X after 14 weeks on both X and K trying to transition.

 

I am rather sensitive to these meds, and it took me about the full 14 weeks for the K to leave my system. I was originally on 2 mgs K + .5 X before the doc decided to give up the transition. So I quickly added back X and started to drop K. Within 2 weeks I was completely off K and totally back on X, but K was still in my system for 14 weeks or so. I could immediately tell when it left for good as I was no longer able to take X anymore and became very nervous, anxious, agitated.

 

That is my reason for my 2nd transition to K and I'm further along this time and pushing through some hard X w/d sx to do this. But I'm making your point that K has a long half life, does stay in your system long after you stop taking it, and jumping from those levels will not be fun.

 

Intend

[[Sk...]]

Thanks, Intend.  I am beginning to get a better grasp on all of this now.

[[ce...]]

0.125 would definitely be better, but still may not be small enough after several cuts...here's how the percentages work out starting with a 1mg pill:

 

1.0 mg cut by 0.125 = 0.875mg = 12.5%

0.875mg cut by 0.125 = 0.75mg = 14.3%

0.75mg cut by 0.125 = 0.625mg = 16.7%

0.625mg cut by 0.125 = 0.50mg = 20.0%

0.50mg cut by 0.125 = 0.375mg = 25%

0.375mg cut by 0.125 = 0.25mg = 33.3%

0.25mg cut by 0.125 = 0.125mg = 50%

ETC.

 

I guess you need to see how your body adusts to each cut as the percentage keeps increasing.  I'm just beginning to start my taper, so I don't have a lot of experience yet knowing how much of a cut my body will tolerate.  But right now, my goal is not to go above a 15% cut.  If my body tolerates 15% without any problems, I may go as high as a 20% cut, but I don't plan on going any higher than a 20% cut.

 

I briefly reviewed the titration method (http://www.benzobuddies.org/benzodiazepine-withdrawal-methods/titration/) and I know there is some work involved with that.  There is a post about using a compounding pharmacy to do the titration work for you (http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=57756.0) but it sounds like you have to have your doctors involvement with arranging that.

 

Since the smallest tablet that I know of that is available for klonopin is 0.5mg, it just doesn't seem like there is any other option than titration for the lower doses.  I would also like to know if anyone has found another method that works for this.  I'll check into this and let you know if I find any good information.

 

Just try not to get discouraged...that is my biggest struggle...we will get through this difficult season of our lives with Gods help!

This looks like a really good taper plan.  It may even be too aggresive. I know how difficult Klonopin is. Even Ashton recommends 10% reductions every two weeks. 

 

What many including myself found, getting to the smallest doses is the most difficult symptoms wise and that's when people begin to slow down even more. 

 

Anyway, I think this is a pretty good plan Perfect Daughter. 

[[ce...]]

Thank You, Perfect.

 

I will also be interested in how your taper goes as well.  I am no expert on tapering ( as you can see from my signature below),    I guess I just want this to be over with ASAP.  I don't mind going through some minor to moderate withdraw symptoms as a sacrifice to be off of the k sooner.  It's not like I am going cold turkey or even a rapid withdraw,( which I tried and failed).

Best of luck and blessings in your recovery.

 

-SkyZone-

 

I'm definitely no expert on tapering off benzos, but I know the Ashton Manual was developed by an expert on benzos with a lot of clinical experience, so I'm basing my information on that.  Hopefully you're right and that once we get down to the lower doses, the larger percentage cuts will be better tolerated.  I'll be interested in watching your progress...hopefully all goes well!

Everyone wants this to be over with as soon as possible.  But we need to be wise about how benzo's act on our central nervous system and give our bodies some respect.  If I knew what I know now about benzo's I could have avoided losing several years of my life to horrific withdrawals.

[[Sk...]]

Thanks Cedar

[[pe...]]

Yes...thanks so much for the words of encouragement Cedar.  It sounds like you have a lot of experience to offer and can help us all avoid some bad pitfalls!  After talking to a friend who also has a lot of knowledge about benzos, she confirmed that the smaller doses are the most difficult to withdraw from and very small cuts are a must!

 

perfect daughter

[[Sk...]]

I have decided to start liquid titration as of my next dose reduction.  It will most likely be a much smoother ride.  I am taking many members' advise by doing a slower taper.  I am sure this plan will work out. 

 

-SkyZone-

[[sn...]]

Skyzone, That sounds like a great plan. I bet you'll do really well with it. Take care buddy.

 

snoball