Regarding an Offsite Chat Room and Abuse of our Private Message System

[[Co...]]

Hello All,

 

A few members have created an offsite chat room. Whilst this is certainly their prerogative, they have used our systems to secretly recruit members. 99.9% of support forums would consider this to be an unacceptable abuse, but given the problems highlighted in our PM area 'warning' and this linked thread, their behavior is doubly irresponsible and unacceptable. It seems that they even failed to warn potential 'recruits' of past and present problems; but they did warn members against informing others about their invitation. Fortunately, some members did report these abuses of the PM system to the team.

 

A few months ago, one of our members opened a chat room, but it was quickly infiltrated by a stalker, where he caused mayhem, and then wrote about it at his blog. The chat room closed down. The member responsible for the first chat room is also involved in the running of the new chat room. The existence of the chat room, and overspill of their moderation problems to this forum are discussed in this thread: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=53841.0

 

The Admins and I have given quite a lot of thought about this situation and what to do about it. A minority - but still a sizable chunk - of the membership have deliberately ignored our very visible warning in the PM area about past abuses by a stalker. Those running the chat room are very aware of the history of this matter. We initially intended to discuss this privately with all those involved, and even though we made clear to the managers of the chat room that no punitive action would taken against those they invited to their chat room though our PM system, the managers attempted to add conditions, requested that we contact them by telephone to discuss the matter, supplied us an incomplete list of members, etc., so Hope1962 (Admin) quite properly decided that this instead would be public matter - this was not a negotiation! The operators of the chat room are the ones in the wrong - they abused our systems, and they then attempt to 'negotiate'!? Frankly, I find their behavioir to be irresponsible, disrespectful, and selfish. Of course they can set up a chat room - this is entirely their choice - but they should not have involved this community by abusing our PM system. Advertise your community on the Internet, as we do with this community.

 

As we indicated to the chat room operators, we are taking no action action against their members. The members that failed to report the abuses of our PM system should count themselves lucky. However, the four people (that we know of) that were responsible for running the chat room will be banned from this forum 48 hours after publication of this post: peaceofmind; ChristopherXII; castoriadis; and chiggylit. The reason I am delaying this ban is because I am naming these individuals here in this post. This is somewhat unusual, so 48 hours will allow them, if they so wish, the opportiunity to reply to disagree, explain themselves, apologise, or whatever.

 

The Admins and I strongly considered doing away with the PM system in its entirety. In fact, it was almost a done deal, but we understood that this would be unfair to the vast majority of members. At the same time though, we are acutely aware that most of those approached through the PM system failed to report problems to us. What we have decided to do is close down the PM system for members for 30 days. The abuses (which we've reported about in detail in the past) are serious. Our warnings must be taken seriously, or we will simply remove the potential problem by permanently closing down the PM system. We hope this thirty-day suspension of PMs properly focuses the minds of members. What concerned us most about this matter is that the invitations were sent out from an account with only six posts to its name. In the present circumstances, and given the prominent warning, how could members trust such an invitation from a member with only six posts to their name? We found this astonishing!

 

We are quite short-staffed at the moment - we should not have to deal with problems such as this. We cannot run this forum without the cooperation of members. This means members must report problems to us. We will bend over backwards to get around problems created by a stalker/troll/etc., but we should not have to deal with problems created by a sizable group of our own members. We have demonstrated this in the past when we returned suspended systems after we had made changes to better secure them and provided provided prominent and easily accessible safety advice. If members do not care enough about these features and systems to keep them secure and free from abuse, why should we maintain them? Frankly, sometimes I wonder why I bother at all.

 

It so happens than I am testing out a chat room right now. However, given that there is now an offsite chat room, there seems less reason for us to reintroduce a chat room here. The nature of chat rooms is that that they encourage some people to  behave in ways they would not in real life or through posts to the forum. Sometimes they are more argumentative, are or too loose with the information they share. For these reasons, chat rooms can be very moderation resource hungry, especially when they are tied into a forum and we have to deal with the fall out on the forum boards and PM system. But, you know, the real kicker is that if we now reopened the chat room, there would be an almost 1:1 relationship between those that have severely let down this community over this matter, and those that would most benefit. So, although you might see a 'chat room' appearing in the menu bar, it will not be implemented for the foreseeable future. The software I'm checking out also includes a shoutbox - this is the only part of the system I might implement. Frankly the Team and I do not have the time to waste on a small group that seem least appreciative of what we do. We have a number of other projects we wish to develop that will better serve the membership as a whole, and which are inherently more safe.

 

So, if I and the team seem somewhat angry - you bet we are. The actions of a few members very nearly meant the whole membership permanently losing the use of a PM system, and has only pushed back (way back) any possible implementation of a chat room.

 

The PM system is now disabled. The team can contact members by PM. If you need to reply to a PM or would like to contact us in private, please use the new Help Desk. It operates much like a forum board, but your contacts with the team there are private. You find it at the top of the Community Affairs category, most of the way down the forum main page. Here's a shortcut: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?action=helpdesk;sa=main;dept=4

[Guest [...]]

Well I for one think this is a very unfair thing to do for those of us who do step up to the plate in more ways than one.  Why should we the innocent be punished for the behaviour of so few.  Im mad Colin because the pm system when used well works.  I have several good girlfriends here and we use this as further support for each other.  Now dont get me wrong I understand what you are saying and there are dodgy people out there we know but come on what about the loyal people of this forum.

 

I agree that transparency is the issue here Im not arguing that but Im arguing that 30 days could be life and death for some of us.  Sometimes we may post on the forum an issue ok and get no response but we know if we pm our friends we get near immediate responses.

 

Come on Colin this is not fair.

 

Lizzy

[[GH...]]

Colin and all the others,

 

Thank you for watching out for us!!! So many of us are vulnerable right now. Personally I trust you to make the right decisions. I know that bad things have happened here before.

 

I am very grateful for this forum. I used to post on the benzowithdrawl site. They just disappeared one day. I hope the same does not happen here.  This place would be missed.

 

The chat at the bw site was used by what seemed like the same members all the time. At least it seemed that way to me. They also seemed like good people. I did not see any problems. I chatted sometimes, but got bored with the same people and the same complaints over and over. I even had us playing a game, live, to break the stress.

 

Enough of me..

 

Thanks again, keep up the great work!!

 

Good healing, fair winds

 

 

 

 

[[GH...]]

Hey Lizzy,

 

When i first got on this fourm, it was because another one went belly up. And here there had been some trouble by some bad people. It happens I guess. I am worried that this place could go away too.

 

This is a free place and very helpful. Nothing is perfect.

 

Just like wd, it will get better.

 

good healing, fair winds

 

[[Ho...]]

Well I for one think this is a very unfair thing to do for those of us who do step up to the plate in more ways than one.  Why should we the innocent be punished for the behaviour of so few.  Im mad Colin because the pm system when used well works.  I have several good girlfriends here and we use this as further support for each other.  Now dont get me wrong I understand what you are saying and there are dodgy people out there we know but come on what about the loyal people of this forum.

 

I agree that transparency is the issue here Im not arguing that but Im arguing that 30 days could be life and death for some of us.  Sometimes we may post on the forum an issue ok and get no response but we know if we pm our friends we get near immediate responses.

 

Come on Colin this is not fair.

 

Lizzy

 

This suspension of the PM system is only for 30 days. We don't know who else was involved in not reporting the off site chat room or using our PM system to advertise it. We were actually pretty shocked to see how many members were a part of the chat room. All of them were very clearly sent an invitation via the BB PM system. The members we know of are likely just the tip of the iceberg.

 

The PM system hasn't been disabled as punishment. It's been disabled so that all of our members, including those who didn't bother to report the invitation to the chat room, can understand what a serious matter this is.

 

Disabling the PM system is a warning to all members that if anything like this happens again, we will disable it permanently.

 

This is a very serious matter. It needed to be addressed. 30 days isn't that long and if it's what's needed to bring focus to this problem and the risks of giving your email address and consequently your IP  to someone who asked for it in a PM, it's worth it.

 

 

 

[Guest [...]]

Yes Ghostship I know

 

we all are in a vulnerable state right now and I of all people know this.  Im sorry if I sounded harsh but was waiting on a reply from someone and she was writing one and I have now missed out on it will have to wait till next month for the next installment.  I guess Colin is just trying to protect us and he is doing a great job.  so im sorry.  Hope in reply to you 30 days is a very long long time it feels like 2 years.

 

Lizzy

[Guest [...]]

Hope1962

 

Why then couldnt just the people involved for not reporting etc have been banned .  Just asking

 

Lizzy

[[Ho...]]

Hope1962

 

Why then couldnt just the people involved for not reporting etc have been banned .  Just asking

 

Lizzy

 

We don't know all the people who didn't report it. This isn't the point though, we need this message to get out. You must follow the guidelines and warnings we have on the PM system. It's for your safety as well as the safety of others.

 

 

[[Ju...]]

Why is this an issue? We've dealt with the chatroom being taken down and PMs being banned before. What is going on? I remember when we had the right to display our email and chat, pm when we needed someone. That's why we're here right? This isn't a party or a fun website to hang out at.

 

There seems to be an issue with control and I for one don't care for it at all. We're already being controlled by benzos. To be controlled by the "support system" is a little much don't you think? I'm sorry that you've been angered but I and I'm sure many others here are angered as well. This is something we don't need at the moment.

[[Ch...]]

You have lost your minds.  For your sanity, you need to turn the computers off for a few days.  We established a chat room because people were suffering.  Yes, we have a lot of people come to it.  People you know intimately.  Why?  Because they are sick and need live support.  Let me get this straight. You are taking away the ability for all members to talk in private because some of us members talked in private in a method you people couldn't control?  You are banning the people who volunteered to make sure people were safe?  The moderators?  You act as if we some how profited from people showing up.  Do you honestly think adults can't take care of themselves without your help?  How does that instill confidence in people trying to face the world without drugs? 

[[Ca...]]

Colin. I know that you are really busy but I'm hoping you can explain here what exactly happens/happened in a chat room.

I don't understand something I guess. Never been in a chat room.

The way I'm understanding it is that people freely talk in the chatroom and what they say is then public to all in the chat room?

Then why the problem if what information they shared with others they shared willingly?

How is that public information used that they don't want?  Ok I just don't understand.

 

Anyway. Thank you for operating this lifeline. If there is anything That I can do to help please let me know. Actually I only link to the forum part. I will look on the main page and learn a little more. Like how is this site being paid for?

Carol

[Guest [...]]

Carol

 

hi there have you read the original message from Colin its more about the people of the chat room using the pm system to notify others of their chatroom this is against the rules of bb.  Im sure Colin or Hope will chip in soon.

 

I have not been to the chat room so dont know how it works.

 

Lizzy

[[Ca...]]

Lizzy. Yes. I read it. I was just wondering about how freely given info in a chatroom is damaging the person who gave the info or does it somehow damage innocent bystanders.guess because I wasnt here yet when whatever went wrong before happened.Lizzy I'll send you a message on the c/t thread. Not wishing to muddy this topic with personal chat.

Carol

[[Fl...]]

Hello everyone,

 

I view my membership in this forum as a privilege, not a right. Colin is free to do whatever he deems necessary to manage this site. There are probably things that go on behind the scenes we are not even aware of.

 

I hope we will all remember this support forum was started to help people through a difficult time. We need to be supportive of whatever decision Colin and the team makes. I well remember how devastating it was when my old forum closed suddenly. I'll never know the reasons it closed, but it could have easily have been unappreciative membership. I'm thinking we are quite lucky to wake up to a forum at all.

 

Closing the PM system temporarily might actually be a good thing. It will bring people to the open forum for discussion of issues relating to getting well from benzos. This can only help new members.

 

Again, membership here is a privilege, not a right. I'm grateful for that privilege.

Flip

[Guest [vi...]]

A few months ago, one of our members opened a chat room, but it was quickly infiltrated by a stalker, where he caused mayhem, and then wrote about it at his blog. The chat room closed down. The member responsible for the first chat room is also involved in the running of the new chat room.

 

ouch! it'd be dangerous for those in taper to step into that chat room. i don't think any chat room save that hosted by benzobuddies should be patronized by buddies here. the argument that "we are adults" doesn't hold water for the threat from this snarky, dogged stalker is real -- he refuses to leave us alone and only punitive steps can keep him in check. i won't miss the PM system. there is nothing i can discuss via PMs that i cannot already via forums. i'm not much for privacy -- bleh. otoh, i wouldn't reveal private info via pms either.

[[Ch...]]

A few months ago, one of our members opened a chat room, but it was quickly infiltrated by a stalker, where he caused mayhem, and then wrote about it at his blog. The chat room closed down. The member responsible for the first chat room is also involved in the running of the new chat room.

 

ouch! it'd be dangerous for those in taper to step into that chat room. i don't think any chat room save that hosted by benzobuddies should be patronized by buddies here. the argument that "we are adults" doesn't hold water for the threat from this snarky, dogged stalker is real -- he refuses to leave us alone and only punitive steps can keep him in check. i won't miss the PM system. there is nothing i can discuss via PMs that i cannot already via forums. i'm not much for privacy -- bleh. otoh, i wouldn't reveal private info via pms either.

 

I'll clear the air here.  The troll has never infiltrated our chat room not once.  One of our members logged in with the trolls name out of anger.  He like everyone else at our chat is a member here as well.  He apologized.  This was verified by IP addresses.  We have paid out of own pockets to have extra security. 

 

There have been 55 members of our chat since it opened.  All of them from this forum.  What small percentage of active members is that?

[[he...]]

Thank you Colin for keeping this forum safe. 

 

 

[[Ch...]]

For those just joining the discussion, here is some background:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=53841.0

 

[[Ch...]]

 

We initially intended to discuss this privately with all those involved, and even though we made clear to the managers of the chat room that no punitive action would taken against those they invited to their chat room though our PM system, the managers attempted to add conditions, requested that we contact them by telephone to discuss the matter, supplied us an incomplete list of members, etc., so Hope1962 (Admin) quite properly decided that this instead would be public matter - this was not a negotiation! The operators of the chat room are the ones in the wrong - they abused our systems, and they then attempt to 'negotiate'!? Frankly, I find their behaviour to be irresponsible, disrespectful, and selfish. Of course they can set up a chat room - this is entirely their choice - but they should not have involved this community by abusing our PM system. Advertise your community on the Internet, as we do with this community.

 

 

 

 

 

Colin, with all due respect, Hope stated that we could not discuss this matter unless I gave her the over 50 names that have used the chat room.  If members wish to reveal that they joined, that is their choice but I cannot give up that list without their consent.  We did not "advertise" our chat room on the internet as we are not seeking recognition.  We also did not want people outside of BB joining it for security reasons.  Have we made this out to be bigger then it really is?  Do four people really deserve to be banned for providing an obviously needed place to so many while you upgraded the forum? I'm not the troll Colin.  I feel the same way if not worse about him then you do.  I remember a time in your chat room when I would console one member who was particularly affected by him.  He said that the vile blog had ruined his trust and he was scared to post on the open forum.  His only support came from the chat room as he lived alone.  I calmed him down every day.  If you wish to make me out to be the bad guy here then so be it.  I've done nothing but devote my time to others for the last six months.  Like I said in the other thread, I take full responsibility for the room.  I ask that you lift the other three bans and only terminate my account.   

[[He...]]

Hi All,

 

First off, I was invited to the chatroom, I took up the offer and visited once, but did not see any particular benefit to myself being a member of the chatroom. I may have visited again at some point, maybe not, I personally did not like the feel of everyone in the room seeing what you had posted, although I know everyone sees posts here on the forum, it being live added another element.

 

In defence of not reporting the initial PM, I honestly did not for a second think that any action against any forum rules had been commited. The message I received did ask not to talk about the invitation, I had considered that perhaps the chatroom was being opened for invitation to those of us going through particularly difficult w/d, as I myself have been. I am very grateful that those invited who did not report this are not being banned from BBs, this place is literally my lifeline now. I am certain other members must have accepted the invitation in the spirit as I did, without fully comprehending that this was against any forum rules.

 

I do not think that any of those involved in opening the chatroom did so in a malevolent manner. I do believe it has been opened as an extra tier of support for those of us going through w/d, perhaps one some members may find useful, I, for one am not convinced that it is for me, after using it once, I now doubt I would use a chatroom even if integrated into BBs, as it it all seems too impersonal with so many members in a room at once.

 

I personally ask that no one involved in setting up the chatroom be banned from BBs, I really believe it was set up with the intention to help, and all going through this hell need support desperately. Would a line of communication between the chatroom owners and the mods here not be possible to resolve this issue without the loss of valuable support here for anyone?

 

I am very very sorry to hear about the closing of the PM system for 30 days, especially given that my naiive action may have contributed to this, to be honest, I fail to see the logic behind it, but accept that if it is deemed neccesary by the mods who donate their valuable time to keep BBs running, then it is their porogative to do so.

 

It is, however, quite a loss, many of us here have made special freindships and connections, and the PM system offers a way to check in and keep up to date in a manner not possible through posting on the forum.

 

Henryk.

 

 

 

 

[[os...]]

I was invited to the chat room but i never used it, is it a typing thing or a video thing? If it is text i don´t see the point really, that is not "chat" is it?

 

Like AA chat rooms, i guess that is just posting also... i don´t get it at all really. I even gave my skype name out but not heard from that person since, not even by reply in PM so i won´t be doing that again in a hurry!

 

Whatever, i am in support of the site owners here whom i´m sure have only our best interests at heart, for that i am grateful, as Flip rightly says, this site is not a given right, i am grateful for BB´s.

 

I am glad i copied a few PM´s, i had a great one from Laura that helps me when i read it, so the PM´s can be really useful, i hope we can all manage without PM´s for awhile.

 

Oscar

[[ch...]]

First of all I would like to make it clear that ChristopherXII did not recruit anyone, he did not use the PM system at all to invite members to the chat room, he was not around at the time of this happening.

 

As for Peaceofmind, she didn't recruit anyone either. She is struggling greatly and I would feel terrible if she was banned from here. I take full responsibility for what happened with the PMs. I was trying to do right and it ended up being a mistake.

 

The chat room, I could not have coped without it, as most of you know, I support someone who is in a very bad way, and is often in severe withdrawal and is plagued with many symptoms. We needed live immediate support, and I am so grateful to have that. 

 

Our lives have truly been touched by the support on this forum, espcially my friends in chat.  I wanted to give some support back to them so I become a moderator on there.

 

I am very sorry for using the PM system to invite people for real time support.

 

Thank you for the time I have been on this site, and i appreciate all the support that was given to us on here.

 

Hang in there everyone, you will recover from this, get through each day, and your recovery will come.

 

Lots of love

 

Chig xxxx

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest [...]]

Now that Ive had a chance to cool down i find this whole situation really sad seriously but flip is right its a not a right to be here its a hang on i cant even spell the word privilidge. or however you spell it.

 

Lizzy

[[Fr...]]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: It is not a right to be here it's a privilege!

 

Colin owns this forum, pays for it and works to keep it safe. I sometimes wonder why he keeps it going when I read the flack he's getting. Does anybody know how many benzo withdrawal forums have closed down? I read the rules when I came here and I abide by them as I'm grateful to have this site to post and read on. I've been given invaluable help and I'm benzo free.

 

I can't believe that members would recruit from this forum and then come back and still try to change what Colin and Hope have decided to do! They are allowing everbody to have their say, which is very generous of them for if it were some forums, you would be permanently banned for breaking the rules.

 

I want to once again thank Colin, the administrators and moderaters for what you do to help others. I'm only sorry that due to my circumstances that I can't help out more.

 

Frannie 

[[Wi...]]

Colin, what you have done here and continue to do is amazing and so appreciated. BB is a wonderful resource and has helped me immeasurably.  I've been traveling down this road with a long way to go and I'm not sure where I'd be without BB. There are so many aspects to this site that have offered education, comfort and reassurance amongst so many other things, in a safe environment. 

 

The chat room feature that was offered here was a safe harbor that provided me a place to go when I needed immediate contact with other human beings who shared my experience.  When the chat room closed it felt as if one of the few doors that I have left closed. 

 

The chat room that was opened was done with the best of intentions and there was never malice associated.  Perhaps mistakes were made, but those that opened and facilitate that room were honorably and honestly only trying to fill a need as a result of the room closing here. 

 

I  seek all of these resources simply because I'm trying to save my life.  I have lost so much and can little afford to lose much more.  I know that there is anger now and I don't have the clarity of mind to help resolve this situation.  I just beg for a resolution where no one gets hurt by this or is banned or where this does not continue to escalate. 

 

 

 

WWWI