Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[gi...]]

Hi Soulfulms  Sorry nobody has answered you yet and that you are feeling so down.  I have been where you are before and it is not easy I know. It sounds like you have taken a larger than recommended cut. I think what they recommend here is 10 percent cuts. You may want to stay where your at for some time and see how you feel for awhile. Hopefully someone will come and be able to explain things a little better than I have. 

hi everyone...I would appreciate some help with my taper....

 

I started my Ativan taper june 6.

 

I was taking 3mg in divided doses ...1mg 3x/day

 

june 6:

 

changed from 3x/day dosing to 4x/day as follows:

 

.5 mg  6am

.5mg    12pm

.5mg      6pm

1mg      around midnight

 

I have been holding at this level since june 6...

 

when and how much should be my next cut?

 

thanks in advance for any help you can give me...

[[aw...]]

Did you have much trouble changing to 4Xday? I plan to hold during that transition; maybe I don't need to. I would stay where you are until I'd been stable with few sx for one week before starting to taper again. You've just cut 17% from your daily dose--cause for celebration  . IMO, the next cut should be no more than half of that.

 

I'm not using a cut and hold method, so I'm maybe not the best source of info on this. Wish I were taking only 2.5 mg/day 

 

Aweigh

 

I just saw ginger3's post. I agree with her advice. Sometimes sx take a while to show up after a sizeable cut.

[[so...]]

switching to 4x/day allows me to space doses more evenly throughout 24hrs...all my pdoc said was to cut .5 from one of the doses...one of the other buddies suggested the 4x/day, which to be honest, I had not thought of...I am very depressed and sometimes "jittery" between doses...my motivation is sorely lacking and haven't much interest in anything...some talk about this "depersonalization" and I believe am experiencing some of that...like i'm an observer of myself and not myself!

 

so, I am headed back to st. Louis, where the pdoc I usually see is located and hopefully he will be of more assistance than the temporary one I've been seeing since visiting with family/friends...this is a great forum with so much info...wishing all good luck with your journey...

[[aw...]]

Hi, soulfulms: "...like i'm an observer of myself and not myself!" That's one of the best descriptions of depersonalization [also called derealization] I've ever read. A sustained DP experience is what scared me into quitting alcohol  But benzos had to wait.

 

How long did you take to switch to 4X/day? Did you just start the new schedule one morning or ease it in gradually?

 

Aweigh

 

 

[[so...]]

I began the 4x/day almost immediately when I read it on the forum...it sounded like such a novel idea...lol...ya know, i'm an RN and I did not think of that...suppose I was so used to taking 3x/day for soooooo long...I think i'm going to stick with this dose until I can see my doctor july 2...I hope he is knowledgeable about tapering Ativan...

 

sending good thoughts your way...

[[Ma...]]

Soul,

 

The only thing I can really say here is that this doc is pulling you down too fast.  A .5 cut from 2.5 is just too much.

 

I would say you need to stableize from the previous cut, without moving down, for about a month or two.  Then, and only then, start cutting it down by .125, which is a quarter of a .5 pill.

 

The doc does not realize what he is doing.  Plain and simple. 

 

Look at my sig and see what I am doing.  There is no perfect way to do this.  But obviously what you are doing or what the doc is telling you to do is not working for you.

 

Why is he doing this?  It is not him that is suffering.  Why is he taking you off it?  Is it because he doesn't want to prescribe benzos?  That is unfair.  It should not be about what he wants, it should be about what YOU NEED.

 

[[so...]]

I'm getting ready to make the trip back to st. Louis so I can consult with my real doctor...I've been OOT visiting with family/friends...but mainly worrying about this Ativan taper...I would like to have a plan to show my doc in case he has one I won't agree with...so, please can someone come up with a simple tapering plan for me...as I said in my previous posts, I began at 3mg/day...divided doses 1mg/3xday.

 

on june 6 I cut .5mg from total dose of 3mg and divided this way:

 

.5mg  6am

.5mg  12pm

.5mg  6pm

1mg  12am (midnoc)

 

I have not made any more cuts...the 4x/day dosing is working better than 3x/day...

 

again, can someone assist me with a tapering plan moving forward?  i really could use some help...

 

 

 

 

 

[[Ev...]]

Hello Soulful -

 

Here's an idea to think about:  You could use the example taper that CedarTree posted a few pages back as a starting point for planning your own taper, keeping in mind that what worked for one person may not be just right for another, and you may need to slow down or make smaller cuts from time to time depending on how you feel. 

 

Cedar's plan a few pages back began at 1.5 mg, but you could back it up to the 2.5 mg level that you're starting at with something like:

 

.50 .50 .50 1.0   Total 2.50 (Your starting point.  Wait at least 10 - 14 days between each cut)

.50 .50 .50 .75   Total 2.25

.25 .50 .50 .75   Total 2.00

.25  .50  .50 .50   Total 1.75

 

Then you might tie into Cedar's plan, which I'm cutting and pasting below from her post.  Note that the cuts get tinier the lower you get, which is very important for minimizing withdrawal symptoms!  Like Cedar, at the lower doses I also had my doctor write my Ativan prescription for a compounding pharmacy to make a liquid version.  It gets difficult to cut tiny portions from the pills, and the liquid makes it MUCH easier to measure.  I had mine prescribed at 1 ml = .1 mg to make the math easy.  You have to be sure to shake it up, and keep it refrigerated.  Most towns have a compounding pharmacy, check your yellow pages or online.

 

Cedar's plan, cut and pasted here:

 

.25          .25          .50        .50                  Total:  1.50    (wait 10-14 days then make the next cut and so on.)

.25          .25          .25        .50                  Total:  1.25

.25          .125        .25        .50                  Total:  1.125

.25          .125        .125      .50                  Total:  1

.25          .125        .125      .375                Total:  .875

.25          .125        .125      .25                  Total:  .75

.125        .125        .125      .25                  Total:  .625

.125        .125        .125      .125                Total:  .50

.125        .0625      .125      .125                Total:  .4375

.125        .0625      .0625    .125                Total:  .375

.0625      .0625      .0625    .125                Total:    .3125

.0625      .0625      .0625    .0625              Total:    .25

.0625      .0312      .0625    .0625              Total:    .2187

.0625      .0312      .0312    .0625              Total:    .1874

.0312      .0312      .0312    .0625              Total:    .1561

.0312      .0312      .0312    .0312              Total:    .1248

                .0312      .0312    .0312            Total:    .0936

                                .0312    .0312            Total:    .0625

                                            .0312            Total:    .0312

                                                                  Off!

 

I hope this helps you find a starting point, or at least gives you a general idea of a plan to show your doctor.  You absolutely can do this.  It's difficult and definitely not fun, but keep in mind that this is a temporary phase in your life.  You WILL get through it and you will be happy and thrive again.  I have been off Ativan for ten months now.  There were many dark moments when I never thought I'd smile again, but I'm back to working now and remembering what it's like to truly enjoy life.  You will get there too! 

 

Hang in there!

[[so...]]

evergreen...thanks so much for the encouragement...I have printed the taper out to show my doctor...I feel better with something in black and white...thanks for caring and thanks cedar for the taper pattern...

[[Ma...]]

I thought I did give you advice Soul.

 

WEll, no matter, been doing this for over a year but I guess I don't know what I am talking about.

[[Ev...]]

Hello Mairin -

 

I'm sure Soulful just accidentally overlooked thanking you too - you know how it is when you're deep in fear and benzo brain fog!  You have given wonderful, caring advice to many people on this thread and absolutely know what you're talking about.  We depend so much on each other; it never stops amazing me how strong and supportive buddies are for each other. 

[[Bi...]]

I thought I did give you advice Soul.

 

WEll, no matter, been doing this for over a year but I guess I don't know what I am talking about.

 

Mairin you have been through so much. You know what your talking about

 

[[Ma...]]

lol

 

Sorry I got a little snippy there! lol

 

Yes I know how it is to be in severe benzo fog.  Sorry about that post.

 

Mairin

[[aw...]]

Hi, A-taperers: I could use some practical advice. If anyone knows of a procedure for slow transition from 3Xday Ativan dosing [that's every 8 hours] to 4Xday [q6h], please let me know the details-. I'm working up a method to do this and can use all the input available. Although the total daily dose won't change, each individual dose goes < by 25% so it needs to be done gradually and carefully. I'm not really thrilled about it, but I think it's going to be necessary and better done now than later when doses are lower and sx are weirder. I figure about 2 weeks for the c/o, but that's just a guess. Anything you've got would be helpful.

 

Thank you,

 

Aweigh

 

 

[[Ma...]]

HI Away,

 

I don't know of any special way to do that.  I guess I was so messed up I just did it and it took time for me to get normal or semi-normal again.  I was suffering anyway.

 

I don't think it is a major deal to do that.  It might be uncomforatable for a few days or a week but I think the body will adjust to the spacing better than to a cut.  It is still the same amount of drug going into your body in a 24 hour period.

[[Ma...]]

Doing a cut today to 1.25.  Feeling it.

 

God this sucks.

 

[[aw...]]

Thanks, Mairin33. There seems to be general agreement that it's no big deal to do this, which is very much what I was hoping to hear  I'm still going to make a big production out of it, make a nice chart with a graph. Why? To quote the Hawaii bumper sticker: "Why? 'cause can!"

 

Do you feel a cut the same day you make it? That really sux! I hope your tide turns soon.

 

Aweigh

[[Mr...]]

Hi Everyone from this thread,

I am helping my Mother to come off lorazepam and am wondering if anyone here tried to make its "stock" solution in ethyl alcohol?

We are close to the end of taper (0.028mg) and I was thinking that 1mg pill would be sufficient for about month if I could do it this way. So far we use a milk titration.

We have enough pills to last for about a month and the taper is really slow (0.001mg per 3-4 days). I thought maybe it would give more time on the same number of pills without wasting every day a lot of it. But maybe this way makes a big difference for the person tapering (another symptoms?) so I am not sure if this is a good way to go.

If you have any experience and comments, please, share them with me.

Watching my Mom going through this hell for over a year makes me absolutely sure to never take ANY prescription drug without researching it first by myself. Thank you for your opinions and lots of windows to all! Mrubar

[[gi...]]

I am Benzo free today! Jumped off yesterday finishing at .05!  Just had to share with everyone here!  To all of you still battling this it can be done! Took me 2 years to come off of 3 milligrams of Lorazepam but hey I did it and you all can too! Prayers and hugs to you all!

[[aw...]]

Mrubar:

 

I take part of my dose in ethanol solution (EtOH soln.) so that I can measure the cut very accurately. I use Everclear 151 proof [not the 195 proof], although you could probably get by in a pinch with 151 proof light rum. The proof is important; lower or [surprisingly] higher won't dissolve as much Ativan.

 

I put several 0.5 mg tablets in a dark glass bottle with a leakproof cap. Let them soak for 10 min, then crush them in the bottle under the solvent using the round end of a glass stirring rod, swizzle stick, etc. Let it sit at room temp. with occassional gentle shaking for 1 hour, then refrigerate. Store and use at 40 deg. F. I'm not sure, but being consevative I only keep it for 3-5 days. Definitely not > 1 week.

 

Has your mom been taking 0.028 mg/day for very long, how often does she dose, and how do you measure that? Oh, I'm just full of questions

 

Anyway, that's how I make my EtOH soln. I measure with a glass lab pipette, though many people use syringes.

 

Aweigh

[[Mr...]]

Mrubar:

 

I take part of my dose in ethanol solution (EtOH soln.) so that I can measure the cut very accurately. I use Everclear 151 proof [not the 195 proof], although you could probably get by in a pinch with 151 proof light rum. The proof is important; lower or [surprisingly] higher won't dissolve as much Ativan.

 

I put several 0.5 mg tablets in a dark glass bottle with a leakproof cap. Let them soak for 10 min, then crush them in the bottle under the solvent using the round end of a glass stirring rod, swizzle stick, etc. Let it sit at room temp. with occassional gentle shaking for 1 hour, then refrigerate. Store and use at 40 deg. F. I'm not sure, but being consevative I only keep it for 3-5 days. Definitely not > 1 week.

 

Has your mom been taking 0.028 mg/day for very long, how often does she dose, and how do you measure that? Oh, I'm just full of questions

 

Anyway, that's how I make my EtOH soln. I measure with a glass lab pipette, though many people use syringes.

 

Aweigh

 

Thanks a lot Aweigh! All the details you have provided are priceless to me.

I remember you posted this before but I could not find it recently and I consider switching to this method as less time and pill consuming.

My Mom had a 3rd day on this dose and I think she will hold it tomorrow too. At this stage every cut feels very strong to Her but when we go slower then before (about 3-5 times slower) Her body adjusts to it and then we continue.

She is dosing 2x per day.

She does have interdose withdrawal but she manages it usually by afternoon walk. The interdose withdrawal for Her gets easier along with lowering the daily dose. Other symptoms arrived and they are very taxing for Her. But they come and go, don't last more than few hours, fortunately and if She holds the dose enough for them to go away - they come less severe next time, or the same but not worse.

I am very worrying about finishing the taper because I have to leave the country She lives (Poland) and my brother will finish it. My brother is full time working and very busy and I wanted to simplify the method of getting the accurate amount of lor. for a daily dose Now I am preparing every evening the milk suspension and it works pretty well.

I agree with keeping the alcohol solution not longer than a week (I would keep it in teh freezer). Still the efficiency of using the pill would be greater. I cut them and weight each half and calculate the exact amount of milk for each, knowing that the pills factory allows 10% discrepancy in their size, so I hope my approach corrects it.

I don't know how to get in Poland the Everclear 151 proof but I will find out in a pharmacy.

The idea of making the solution came to my mind after talking to pharmacist and he said they would dissolve it in ethanol (I was thinking about getting the prescribed liquid lorazepam solution and asked them how they would do it).

My Mom started tapering last year after 2 years of a nightmare living in tolerance along with megaloblastic anemia which noone knew why She developed. I found 1 paper reporting similar situation caused by another benzo so I talked Her to taper off the lorazepam by substitution with diazepam. It wasn't good fer Her liver but she did half of Her dose (0.25mg) this way and then Her anemia was crazily growing so she stopped for half year. In March this year we started to do milk titration and by now the anemia is gone and she feels so much better than 2 years ago. When she started the taper she did not expect how much Her life will  improve on a half dose of lorazepam. After that discovery She decided to come off this completely but it is VERY difficult. But she is surviving and progressing into freedom.

Thank you Aweigh for your quick response with all the information I need, it is really greatly appreciated. Mrubar

[[aw...]]

Mrubar:

Thanks very much for your kindness. I would suggest you consider dosing 3 times/day. I just changed to 4X, myself. It will almost certainly make her interdose sx less severe. They should have alcohol in the pharmacy; you can dilute it with distilled water if it's 95%. Also, Ativan is produced commercially [in the US, anyway] in two different oral liquid preparations. If your doctor will Rx the liquid, you won't have to make it yourself.

 

Aweigh

[[Ma...]]

Hello,

 

Just want to post.  I am starting to get really fed up with this taper.  I realize I am lucky to be able to go slow.

 

Still, some of the rates of getting off that I see people doing on here, make me wonder is that really necessary?

 

I am really struggling with this.  There seems to be a real dearth of knowledge, or even balance on BB sometimes.  Surely not everyone has to go down by infintisimal amounts for years?  Sometimes I wish that there was some sort of real data on how many people have trouble getting off.  Obviously, on this website, EVERYONE seems to have EXTREME difficulty.

 

I wonder, how much of this is fear, hystronics, reality?

 

I wish there was some sort of objective data available.

 

I do know how bad this can be.  I was dropped from a very high amount, to a still high amount and I reeled from that for a long time. 

 

Obviously, extreme drops or c/t's are not good.  There does need to be tapering, if you are on it a long time.  But, .001 every month for 3 years or so?  I am having a hard time with hearing about that kind of tapering.  Perhaps I exaggerate this a little, but not much, IMHO.  Do I really have to do that?

[[ja...]]

Hi Mairin, I would like to throw in my 2 cents worth on this. I too have had trouble with the Ideal of people tapering at such small amounts. IMO I am not planning on doing that. I feel I need to push through with a reasonable taper. I in no way would say to anyone that feels they have to taper that small that they shouldn't. I understand we are all different and I have no Ideal what one person over another can handle.

 

For me I think fear can play a big role. I am afraid with every cut, but I want off this drug and will continue as best I can. If I get to where I have to cut smaller, then I will. For now I will keep making .05 cuts as far as I can go. I do think we are influenced sometimes even more while in w/d. It is best to have our plan and stay with it.

 

I'm also not for up dosing unless it is absolutely unbearable and one cant go on. From what Ive read up dosing doesn't always help either. Once again having a plan and staying with it is what I've seen to work with the majority on BB or at least staying close to a plan.

 

I hope you are getting along ok, You are moving on in your taper you should be proud of yourself.

 

Love Jackie :smitten: :smitten:

[[...]]

Hi Mairin

You're right; nobody really knows the best way to do this as there is no hard data available, just anecdotal and observational evidence. What makes the most sense to me is tapering at whatever rate gives  just a few manageable symptoms that you are willing to live with. You can only discover this with trial and error. Unfortunately, my healing rate seems to be really slow, but my total taper looks like it is going to be around 20-21 months. I could have gone faster but would have had more in the way of symptoms and I strongly doubt my total time to complete healing would have been any different. I believe the desire to "get it over with" is responsible for lot of unnecessary suffering I see on BB. It just plain takes a long time for many of us and the overall repair rate is probably genetically determined. For most of us with these "lucky" genes it looks to me that the ideal taper time is somewhere between 6 and 24 months with a few outliers on either side. Again, if you're in this 6-24 month group hurrying the taper will not get you better any faster so long as you're not in tolerance or suffering from some adverse effect of the benzo. Our bodies "machinery" for correcting the neurotransmitter imbalances seems fairly fixed IMO. If you're having problems, you may as well slow things down to lower symptoms while your body repairs the benzo damage. Remember, the true goal is complete healing from benzodiazepine damage, not just getting off the drug.

Good luck

Bart