thinking of reinstating after 6 mos. off

[[ma...]]

Wow, I can't begin to tell you all how pleasantly surprised I was at the number of responses I've gotten.  Thank you so so much.  I really needed that kind of feedback because I'm in such a bad place.

 

And thank you everyone for reminding me that reinstatement would only make matters worse down the road, not to mention the sense of defeat I would feel.  I guess I knew this all along but was getting desperate for relief from the relentless insomnia and depression. 

 

All I want is one night of solid sleep, a good eight hours--that's all I want and I can't get it no matter what I do.  Like I said, I have tried everything and nothing keeps me asleep.  That's the problem, staying asleep.  It's been the same routine almost every night since October, get sleepy around 10:30, fall asleep while watching TV, get up and go to bed about 11:00 and sleep until 2:00 a.m.  I'm always wide awake at this point so I get up and do something until I start to get sleepy again which is usually around 5:30/6:00.  Then I sleep for another hour or two.  With this routine I know I'm never getting the really deep sleep I should be and it's taking a toll. 

 

I also think that the holidays aren't helping my mood lately.  This is never a good time of year for me so that could be adding an extra layer to the anxiety and depression.  I know this is a lousy attitude, but honestly I can't wait until January 2nd when it's all over. 

 

Some of you mentioned possible nutritional deficiencies, so I'll address that.  I just had a physical and complete blood work and everything is fine.  I also eat a very healthy diet.  I haven't been exercising as much as I should though because of exhaustion and depression.  I know that's not helping matters.

 

I've recently started writing poetry again after a very long hiatus, and I chalk this up to no longer having my creativity crushed by benzos.  After three months on Klonopin I stopped writing completely, for over seven years, and am now picking it up again.  Someone mentioned why I decided to get off Klonopin in the first place and this was one of the major reasons--I lost my creativity.  It's really tough to write sometimes, between sleep deprivation and difficulty calling up words, but I do feel some of the old spark returning despite it all.  Thanks for reminding me of this.  There were additional reasons of course, but loss of creativity was the main one.

 

When I really think it through I realize that there's just no way I could go through this again.  If I reinstated I would probably never attempt another taper because it was just too grueling.

 

I wish I could get to a certain level of acceptance of where I am in this process.  I think that's the key, but it's sooooo difficult.  If I could just say, "Okay, this is how much I'm sleeping now and it won't kill me.  Maybe it will improve, maybe it won't."  I think that would help a lot instead of the constant judging and self-criticism I do, but I guess that's part of depression. 

 

Guilt is also part of depression and I have to say that I felt some guilt over all the support I got from everyone when I have been such a lousy BB in the last few months.  I've not been able to lend the level of support that I had been because of how wretched I feel.  Something else to beat myself up about--depression's horrendous.

 

Anyway, thanks again everybody.  I feel a little more clarity and definitely more hope for the future.  I'm learning patience like never before.

 

Mal

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[ji...]]

Yeah Mal!!

 

I so understand about the sleep. It's so miserable and I swear it causes depression.  My problem is falling asleep, but once in awhile it's staying asleep. I have to get up with the baby at 6am and many times it's 2 3 or 4am before I can sleep. I, like you, would do anything for 8 hours of unbroken sleep. It has to happen for us eventually. It has to!

[[Fl...]]

You are very lucky that you are able to write and that your creativity has started to return. I will be a year off in about a week and a half and I have yet to see any substantial  gains in that department. It has improved a little since I hit 5 months off, but it is SLOOOOW coming back.

[[Ca...]]

I  think that anyone who reinstates after 6 months off has to also consider that they may get on and never get off again.  It might be too hard.  It's a chance that you take.  If you don't mind the thought of the pills the rest of your life, well that's different.  But just think how hard you worked to get where you are. 

 

Very true, and then you could end up dealing with tolerance withdrawal, which would be a life long rollercoaster ride.

[[re...]]

I  think that anyone who reinstates after 6 months off has to also consider that they may get on and never get off again.  It might be too hard.  It's a chance that you take.  If you don't mind the thought of the pills the rest of your life, well that's different.  But just think how hard you worked to get where you are. 

 

Very true, and then you could end up dealing with tolerance withdrawal, which would be a life long rollercoaster ride.

 

I know this is true, but what do people do who suffer from extreme anxiety and cant take an ssri? Do you just suffer the rest of your life?

[[Ca...]]

I  think that anyone who reinstates after 6 months off has to also consider that they may get on and never get off again.  It might be too hard.  It's a chance that you take.  If you don't mind the thought of the pills the rest of your life, well that's different.  But just think how hard you worked to get where you are. 

 

Very true, and then you could end up dealing with tolerance withdrawal, which would be a life long rollercoaster ride.

 

I know this is true, but what do people do who suffer from extreme anxiety and cant take an ssri? Do you just suffer the rest of your life?

 

I can't tolerate SSRI's either.  I've tried a bunch and none agree with me.  I think we just have to find other ways of treating our anxiety.  Neurofeedback is helping a lot of people, and so is a hypoglycemia diet.  People may also be helped by avoiding gluten and dairy.  My mother was telling me that her real estate angent had panic attacks, agoraphobia, and bad social phobia.  She stopped eating wheat gluten and it all went away in a few days.  She also said that many people can take a few months to see improvement.  Casein in dairy can case just as many problems as wheat gluten.  These obviously aren't the only two things that can cause anxiety, but it's a start, and studies are showing it would be in everybodies best interest not to eat these two things anyway.

[[cd...]]

RFB,

 

Have you tried any natural remedies?  California Poppy is one.  There are other herbs.  There is an herbalist who does telephone consults, here name is Karyn Sanders, you can google The Herbal HIghway.  Maybe something like that might help you.  Also homeopathy is worth a shot imo.  It helped me with w/d symptoms.

 

Also, I have heard it said that cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) is very effective with anxiety disorders.  I think the skills are helpful even if they are not a cure. 

 

Dont give up trying to find something that will help you.  You dont have to suffer without end.  I think there is hope.

 

cdawg

[[re...]]

I have cut out gluten, and dairy. I take supplements to help my brain and to stay calm. I do my best to think "happy" thoughts. Etc. But I feel that some of us have "broken" brains from past abuse or from lousy genes. Before klon I felt anxiety in my body all the time, peaking with panic attacks. Its horrible to constantly feel on edge and fearful.

 

 

[[Ca...]]

RFB,

 

Have you tried any natural remedies?  California Poppy is one.  There are other herbs.  There is an herbalist who does telephone consults, here name is Karyn Sanders, you can google The Herbal HIghway.  Maybe something like that might help you.  Also homeopathy is worth a shot imo.  It helped me with w/d symptoms.

 

Also, I have heard it said that cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) is very effective with anxiety disorders.  I think the skills are helpful even if they are not a cure. 

 

Dont give up trying to find something that will help you.  You dont have to suffer without end.  I think there is hope.

 

cdawg

 

I forgot CBT.  It helps a lot of people.  There is a book called 'When Panic Attacks' written by David Burns that is CBT you can do on your own.  It's supposed to really good.

[[Ca...]]

I have cut out gluten, and dairy. I take supplements to help my brain and to stay calm. I do my best to think "happy" thoughts. Etc. But I feel that some of us have "broken" brains from past abuse or from lousy genes. Before klon I felt anxiety in my body all the time, peaking with panic attacks. Its horrible to constantly feel on edge and fearful.

 

Have you ever tried a hypoglycemia diet?  It can be extremely helpful. 

 

Have you looked into the Linden Method?

[[mi...]]

I  think that anyone who reinstates after 6 months off has to also consider that they may get on and never get off again.  It might be too hard.  It's a chance that you take.  If you don't mind the thought of the pills the rest of your life, well that's different.  But just think how hard you worked to get where you are. 

 

Very true, and then you could end up dealing with tolerance withdrawal, which would be a life long rollercoaster ride.

 

I know this is true, but what do people do who suffer from extreme anxiety and cant take an ssri? Do you just suffer the rest of your life?

 

I can't tolerate SSRI's either.  I've tried a bunch and none agree with me.  I think we just have to find other ways of treating our anxiety.  Neurofeedback is helping a lot of people, and so is a hypoglycemia diet.  People may also be helped by avoiding gluten and dairy.  My mother was telling me that her real estate angent had panic attacks, agoraphobia, and bad social phobia.  She stopped eating wheat gluten and it all went away in a few days.  She also said that many people can take a few months to see improvement.  Casein in dairy can case just as many problems as wheat gluten.  These obviously aren't the only two things that can cause anxiety, but it's a start, and studies are showing it would be in everybodies best interest not to eat these two things anyway.

 

Hoping you feel better soon, maybe try cdwag suggestion and see what happens.

I hope it works for you

all the best

mishi

[[ho...]]

Most of iodine/sleep info is anecdotal.

 

I did find this:

 

A second function of iodine is to calm the body and relieve nervous tension. When nervous tension runs high there is irritability and difficulty in sleeping well at night, and the body is continually on a combat basis, organized for fight and flight. All these points stress a body's need for iodine to lessen nervous tension, relax the body and enable it to or-ganize for peace and quiet, by the building and storing of body reserves against time of need. I have learned through Vermont folk medicine that it is possible to repeatedly change an irritable, impatient, and restless child under ten years of age into a calm, patient individual within two hours' time by giving one drop of Lugol's solution of iodine by mouth in a vegetable or fruit juice or in a glass of water made acid in reaction by adding a teaspoonful of apple cider vinegar. I have repeatedly prescribed this in order to make it possible for a mother of a racehorse-type little boy or girl to be able to live comfortably with the child. I have never seen it fail to calm down a nervous child.

 

 

from here:

 

http://misslizzy.me/lugols-solution-of-iodine/

 

Still only anecdotal. I'll do a PubMed search when I have time.

[[do...]]

I forgot CBT.  It helps a lot of people.

It helped me enormously. In fact, this is the only side-effects free method )).

 

To the author of the topic: there is no point to reinstate, really. Even if you agreed to put up with taking benzo- for the rest of your life you will develop tolerance and will crave more and more - you will be in a permanent withdrawal. This is the way to nowhere.

[[ma...]]

I  think that anyone who reinstates after 6 months off has to also consider that they may get on and never get off again.  It might be too hard.  It's a chance that you take.  If you don't mind the thought of the pills the rest of your life, well that's different.  But just think how hard you worked to get where you are. 

 

Very true, and then you could end up dealing with tolerance withdrawal, which would be a life long rollercoaster ride.

 

I know this is true, but what do people do who suffer from extreme anxiety and cant take an ssri? Do you just suffer the rest of your life?

 

RCB,

 

This is the same question I've been asking myself lately--will I suffer for the rest of my life?  You and I have both took these drugs for a long time and even though I've heard many stories of long-time users recovering, it's hard to not feel like you're permanently scarred.  I'm wrestling with that big time right now. 

 

And like you I can't take SSRI's.  Someone mentioned CBT, which it just so happens I'm going to be starting in a couple weeks.  I've heard it can be very effective for anxiety and depression.  I'll let everyone know how that goes.

 

A hypoglycemic diet was mentioned too and while I know this can be helpful, it's REALLY hard to stick with.  I tried it several years ago for a short period.  I guess if it makes a substantial difference it's worth it, but...  I remember having to be pretty strict about it otherwise it doesn't help all that much.

 

I should probably give meditation another try.  It's been hard to do with such a racing mind.  Hard for me to sit there and take it.

 

I'm curious about the casein and dairy products.  I'd just like to know how this affects anxiety levels.  I know dairy is not the best for digestion, so giving up dairy would probably help my GI issues.  Though it would be really hard to do a hypoglycemic diet AND avoid dairy because you have to eat a fair amount of protein.  I only eat certain meat products, so my choices are a bit limited.  The rice and legume combination, while supplying a fair amount of protein, has too many carbohydrates for the hypoglycemic diet.  Anyone have any thoughts on this or tried this diet?

 

Mal

[[re...]]

I hear you Mal

 

I wish almost every day I had not tried to get off my klon. After almost 20 years, I wonder when if ever my brain will heal. I am more anxious as the months go out. I worry I am so broken I can not be fixed. My mind is playing cruel tricks on me I guess. I just know I am tired of suffering. I am tired of being brave. I want my life back. I really want my life back.

 

I havent had any sleep tonight. I am so anxious now I cant sleep. Ugh...

 

I want to give up.

[[Ca...]]

I  think that anyone who reinstates after 6 months off has to also consider that they may get on and never get off again.  It might be too hard.  It's a chance that you take.  If you don't mind the thought of the pills the rest of your life, well that's different.  But just think how hard you worked to get where you are. 

 

Very true, and then you could end up dealing with tolerance withdrawal, which would be a life long rollercoaster ride.

 

I know this is true, but what do people do who suffer from extreme anxiety and cant take an ssri? Do you just suffer the rest of your life?

 

RCB,

 

This is the same question I've been asking myself lately--will I suffer for the rest of my life?  You and I have both took these drugs for a long time and even though I've heard many stories of long-time users recovering, it's hard to not feel like you're permanently scarred.  I'm wrestling with that big time right now. 

 

And like you I can't take SSRI's.  Someone mentioned CBT, which it just so happens I'm going to be starting in a couple weeks.  I've heard it can be very effective for anxiety and depression.  I'll let everyone know how that goes.

 

A hypoglycemic diet was mentioned too and while I know this can be helpful, it's REALLY hard to stick with.  I tried it several years ago for a short period.  I guess if it makes a substantial difference it's worth it, but...  I remember having to be pretty strict about it otherwise it doesn't help all that much.

 

I should probably give meditation another try.  It's been hard to do with such a racing mind.  Hard for me to sit there and take it.

 

I'm curious about the casein and dairy products.  I'd just like to know how this affects anxiety levels.  I know dairy is not the best for digestion, so giving up dairy would probably help my GI issues.  Though it would be really hard to do a hypoglycemic diet AND avoid dairy because you have to eat a fair amount of protein.  I only eat certain meat products, so my choices are a bit limited.  The rice and legume combination, while supplying a fair amount of protein, has too many carbohydrates for the hypoglycemic diet.  Anyone have any thoughts on this or tried this diet?

 

Mal

 

Do you eat eggs?  Since this diet involves five to six small meals per day boiled eggs can come in handy.  Seafood is another good protein source if you like it.  New research is showing that mercury in fish is countered by the amount of selenium in fish.  Some people are now saying if the selenium level is higher than the mercury level in a particular fish it is okay to eat often.  You still have to avoid swordfish, shark, and a couple of others.  You make want to look this up.  If you like chicken it can easily be somewhat of a staple.  Quail is good, but kind of expensive.  If you don't like beef you may still find bone marrow to be good.  You can get this from your butcher or possibly a local farmers' market.  I haven't tried it myself, yet, but I hear it's really good and packed with nutrients.  You probably know this already, but it's okay to eat some complex carbs, just not large servings of them.  Fruit doesn't usually spike peoples' blood sugar, so you may be okay eating it.  Just avoid watery fruit like citrus and grapes, and probably watermelon, too.  You can look around for some good recipes and that will make it easier to stick with.  I think there are some good recipes in the Zone Diet that are pertinent, as well as the Paleo Diet.  Nuts make good snacks or additions to "meals" between meals. 

[[Po...]]

I saw Dr. yesterday.  I get sick on SSRI's.  He suggested an SSNRI, venlafaxine.  I told him I would have to research.  He told me to keep my dosage of lorazepam as low as possible in case that was my only choice and if I needed something.  I have COPD which can make me anxious which no diet is going to change.  He warned of interdose withdrawal, but said if I had to we would deal with it.  So we all have decisions to make.  He did renew my Lorazepam and now I have to decide after Christmas.  So I truly understand.  He said the new drug did not cause dependency.  (?)

 

Popcornlady

[[re...]]

It doesnt cause dependency in the way that your body craves more. But of course it changes the brain and you cant simply walk away from it. I wish you the best as you decide what to do. Life doesnt always give us easy choices.

[[ma...]]

Popcornlady,

 

Everyone is different, obviously, and what works for one person may not for another.  To be honest, venlafaxine (Effexor) and paroxetine (Paxil) did not agree with me at all.  The one SSRI that did help me somewhat was Zoloft, but I was taking Buspar along with it so that could have made the difference.  Unfortunately, after about a year they just pooped out on me and anxiety/depression returned. 

 

I don't know much about them but tricyclics may be an option because they don't rev you up like the SSRI's can.  I took amitryptiline several years ago and I remember it helping me somewhat.  At this point my system has become so sensitive that I'm afraid to try anything.

 

 

RCB,

 

When you say your mind is playing tricks on you are you referring to intrusive thoughts by any chance?  I have a terrible time with that.  I never experienced anything like it before.  Some of the things that pop into my head are so frightening, and bizarre as well.  I don't know what that's about, but it makes me feel like I'm going insane.  So awful. 

 

I hear you when you say you're tired of being brave--me too.  I put on a face almost every day, but lately I'm finding it harder to do so.  I'm totally exhausted, and because I feel I've already lost so much time to benzos I rarely give in to my tiredness.  I know there are some times when I should rest during the day, but I just feel so damned guilty about it.  This is a real problem for me.  I'm constantly beating myself up for not feeling up to going out and looking for a job, working full-time, etc.  Maybe this is part of the benzo depression; I don't know.

 

I remembered this interview with our very own Colin and realized that I need to re-read it because it restores my faith a bit that things will get better.  Hope it's helpful.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/DepressionNews/story?id=6354685&page=1#.TvIHaFY0OSo

 

 

Caddo,

 

Yes, I do eat eggs, in fact I love hard-boiled eggs.  I also eat chicken and pork, ham, etc.  I don't eat beef, veal, lamb, red meat in other words.  I love nuts so that's a good option.  I also love cheese but I question how good it is for me.

 

I'm not much of a sweet eater so it wasn't too hard to give that up when I was on the diet before.  What I really missed were pizza, potatoes, corn, beans, and pasta.  I think after a while you're allowed to have a limited amount of these foods but I'm not sure.  I guess the best attitude is to focus on what you CAN have and make the most of those foods, find good recipes, etc.  I'll check out the Zone and Paley (?) diets--thanks for the suggestions.

 

Mal

 

 

[[km...]]

I just did a 3 month taper off tricyclics and the fallout is horrible.  If you can stay drug free for at least a year things will settle down for you.  I know this is hard just hang in there

Hugs

Kristin

[[ma...]]

KMarie,

 

It's such a long time since I took amitryptiline that I can't remember what happened after I stopped.  I took a very low dose and for a brief period.  Thanks for letting me know this though. 

 

I'm currently in a quandary as to whether or not I should try Lamictal.  My doctor thinks it could help somewhat with the anxiety and insomnia, but of course I'm reluctant.  However I am desperate for relief.  As you've probably read I can't take SSRIs, so they're out of the question.  My thoughts are that if Lamictal can ease me through this really difficult time maybe it's worth it because it surely can't be more difficult to get off of than benzos.  I feel that when I've stabilized a bit from benzo w/d I'll be better able to handle coming off Lamictal.

 

Mal

[[re...]]

Mal

 

Yes intrusive thoughts.  Mine are always about death. Ugh. Scary I think about it often. Like I punish myself with the thought. Then I also replay mynlife and think about how I messed everything up. It's just a terrible cycle of negative thiughts. I feel insane sometimes or close to it. My thoughts scare me. And I was never like this before benzo I don't think. I never had a dx other than anxiety/PTSD.

 

How r u today?  Anxiety any better?

[[ma...]]

RFB,

 

I think about death a lot too, as well as my loved ones dying.  I don't know if this is anxiety or depression or a combination of both.  I'm also having a problem with replaying negative events in my life and feeling like a total failure as a person.  I can't remember when this started but I know it's gotten really bad over the last few months.  Unpleasant memories seem to come out of nowhere and torture me, and that's all I seem to remember.  It's hard for me to call up positive memories; somehow my mind is twisting everything and making it all negative.  I feel like I'm going insane sometimes too, and I don't recall ever feeling like this prior to benzos. 

 

As you can see, I'm awake at my customary 3:00 am.  I have to believe that this is not my "new normal" (for lack of a better term).  I don't know how much longer I can take this.  I feel like my brain is literally beating me to a pulp.

 

Mal

[[re...]]

Mal

I understand. It's just wd though. I'm convinced. We have scrambled brains that don't have enough feel good chemicals so we think dark thoughts. What has helped me these past few days and has pushed me more into feeling better ism to hold onto someone I love and cry. Sob. And to tell my truth about whatbi feel annd fear. After the tears I feel relief.  Jesus was quoted in the gnostic gospels as saying "if you bring forth that which is in you it will save you. If you do not bring forth that which is in you it will destroy you."

 

 

I want true recovery. Not just from benzo withdrawal. But from my sexual abuse at the hands of so many men in my childhood. It's why I was put on klon. So I am finally speaking my truth. I'm slowly getting better. 

 

I want for you to feel safe, loved and content.

 

Be well

[[mr...]]

Iodine is absolutely, essential for life and since it is the heaviest halogen, it gets displaced by Fluoride, Chorine and Bromide.

They used to use iodine in breads, but changed to bromide and bromide is in many sodas, as well as, meds.

For anyone who remembers bromo seltzer overdose, they know that it causes acute psychosis.

 

Good explanation of iodine deficiency by Dr David Brownstein.

http://www.nutri-linkltd.co.uk/articulate/brownstein/part4/player.html

 

Adding vitamin C and unrefined sea salt (chloride) with iodine will help with any bromide or fluoride detox issues.