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Seroquel or Remeron?


[Ti...]

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I was just put on Seroquel for sleep due to extreme insomnia from c/t Ativan withdrawal.

 

I am wonder if I should stop and perhaps try Remeron.

 

I don't know which would be the lesser of two evils,

and which one would be easier to taper off of after

my benzo withdrawals.

 

Any help on your experience with taking either of these meds and

the withdrawals you experienced, I'd really appreciate it.

 

I also assume these stop working for sleep at some point and need to be upped,

am I correct?

 

Could anyone answer these two questions.

 

 

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I have been on both of these meds, although just a short time on Remeron.  The Seroquel really helped me sleep and I tapered off of it in a few weeks (working with my doctor).  If it were me, I would stay with the Seroquel.  (Of course, one is supposed to take it at night and not during the daytime).

 

Everybody is different, but that's my experience, for what it's worth.

 

Take care ....

 

fg

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Hi FG,

 

How long were you on the Seroquel and at what dosage.

 

I've been reading and told that if you are on it for two long

and then go off of it, it causes the same kind of withdrawal

symdrome that Benzos do.  With extreme insomnia, panic,

nausea etc.

 

It sacres me now and am not sure if I should stay on it.  :(

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I believe I was on Seroquel for a month or two.  However, the withdrawals were nothing compared to benzos.  I have been on Paxil for over 4 years and have withdrawn from that several times as well, and the withdrawals were nothing like benzo withdrawal (at least for me).  I will say that I had sleeplessness and nausea when I first withdrew from Paxil, but that was because I came off of the Paxil way too quickly.

 

At any rate, hope this helps.

 

fg

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You're welcome.  Oh, you had asked me how much Seroquel I was on.  This was over a year ago, but I think it was 50 mg.  I have tried both Seroquel and Seroquel XR.  The XR made me feel worse that the regular Seroquel (I think it made me feel continually groggy, etc.), so I stuck with the Seroquel while I needed it.  It definitely put me to sleep.

 

Take care ...

 

fg

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[b4...]

Remeron worked pretty well for me, but the only problem is it is Pro-Convulsive and I had to get off it and fast after months of use.

It helped me sleep in spite of the strobes in my eyes.

 

Recently, my doctor prescribed Doxepin.

I have not tried it.

 

Billy.

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Thanks for the info, Billy.  I did not know that about Remeron.  I have tried Doxepin and it really has helped me sleep (although it can decrease the seizure threshold as well).  Doxepin, of course, is one of the older Tricyclic AD's.  Now that I've been on Paxil for several months (at 30 mg.), I no longer need Doxepin, so my doctor allowed me to go off of it.

 

fg

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[b4...]

Thanks for the info, Billy.  I did not know that about Remeron.  I have tried Doxepin and it really has helped me sleep (although it can decrease the seizure threshold as well).  Doxepin, of course, is one of the older Tricyclic AD's.  Now that I've been on Paxil for several months (at 30 mg.), I no longer need Doxepin, so my doctor allowed me to go off of it.

 

fg

 

How is the Paxil working for you?

 

I am trying to avoid a/d's but if one is needed- I am opt to try one.

 

Speaking to my Neurologist & Doctor Of course.

 

 

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The Paxil is working great for me (of course, I was on it before I was prescribed Klonopin).  The only issue is that it (and all antidepressants that I have tried) causes Cervical Dystonia in me (which is why the neuro put me on Klonopin).  I am receiving Botox shots for the Dystonia every 3 months.  I plan on weaning myself off of Klonopin first (or as far as I can get) before going off of Paxil.  Paxil has improved my appetite, sleep, depression, energy, etc.  I never knew what all Klonopin was doing to me until I went of off Paxil last year.  I eventually had to reinstate Paxil and am finally getting better.

 

fg

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[b4...]

I need something for depression, but some say that no SSRI has helped them.

Ashton speaks of AD's if needed.

Dystonia, as in how?

 

Abnormal body movements?

 

 

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The specific Dystonia it caused in me is Anterior Torticollus (not sure if I spelled that right).  At any rate, it tightens the front part of my neck and pulls my chin down towards my chest.  That's why my neuro gave me Klonopin (which actually helped with the Dystonia, but caused a whole host of other problems).  The botox shots I receive to my neck are helping, though.  However, Dystonia can be caused by numerous things (and drugs).

 

It is very rare with AD's, so I wouldn't be concerned about it if I were you.  With me, about 3 days after I am totally off of Paxil the Dystonia is almost gone.  However, other AD's have caused even worse Dystonia, so I am sticking with the Paxil as long as I can hold out.  I wish Klonopin didn't cause sleep issues, depression, weight loss, muscle weakness, etc., but it has in me and thus I had to go back on the Paxil.

 

At any rate, good luck in finding what works for you.

 

fg

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[b4...]

The specific Dystonia it caused in me is Anterior Torticollus (not sure if I spelled that right).  At any rate, it tightens the front part of my neck and pulls my chin down towards my chest.  That's why my neuro gave me Klonopin (which actually helped with the Dystonia, but caused a whole host of other problems).  The botox shots I receive to my neck are helping, though.  However, Dystonia can be caused by numerous things (and drugs).

 

It is very rare with AD's, so I wouldn't be concerned about it if I were you.  With me, about 3 days after I am totally off of Paxil the Dystonia is almost gone.  However, other AD's have caused even worse Dystonia, so I am sticking with the Paxil as long as I can hold out.  I wish Klonopin didn't cause sleep issues, depression, weight loss, muscle weakness, etc., but it has in me and thus I had to go back on the Paxil.

 

At any rate, good luck in finding what works for you.

 

fg

 

fg,

 

I was thinking it was rare with AD's.

When I was on Klonopin, it caused many problems.

I remember it started out with bone pain when in tolerance.

Then- I had electrical shocks (?) I assume was from tolerance.

 

I didn't know Botox helped with that. I don't have it- but I have heard of it.

 

Good luck, and about the AD. I don't know if I will go on one or not.

 

I have Doxepin 10mg capsules.

 

So, I will have to wait and see.

 

Thanks,

Billy.

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Wish you well, Billy.  (By the way, my doctor told me of a patient of his who was on 6 mg. of Klonopin for 17 years and had to wean herself off of it because of the electric shocks it produced in her legs.  It's amazing a drug can do so many negative things to a human body).

 

fg

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Hi Tink22,

 

So the psychiatrist put you on Seroquel ? How much ?

 

'I don't know which would be the lesser of two evils,

and which one would be easier to taper off of after

my benzo withdrawals.'

 

That's probably mostly a personal issue.

You did have trouble with the doxepin ? It's possible that Remeron is more similar to doxepin than Seroquel, but that's a bit of a guess.

 

'I also assume these stop working for sleep at some point and need to be upped,

am I correct?'

Not necessarily. At high doses Seroquel is not a stronger antihistamine, but it acts more like an 'antipsychotic'.

It is said that Remeron is less sedating at higher doses, after you have taken it for some time anyway.

 

But tolerance to both drugs can occur.

 

I have never taken Remeron. Seroquel never did anything for me, but I have a very high tolerance to sedating antihistamines.

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Thanks for the response FG.

 

 

Hi Liberty,

 

Yes he did, and now I'm thinking I may not want to stay on it.  I dunno.

I think at some point I will build a tolerance to it and then what...  I

don't want to have to keep upping my dose and get hooked on another

drug.  I am tapering right now and will see how things go.  Hopefully

I will not be in the same horror I was in before I went on it a few days

ago.

 

I think what I will do is use it  a few times a week as a rescue for sleep

if I can.  Seems better than being hooked on something else to have to

get off of.  I'd rather be on an AD, than this, although it does work

well for me for sleep and calming me down.

 

Tink

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Tink,

 

I haven't really built up a tolerance for Paxil, but that's just my experience.  Having come off of several AD's, I can testify that they are nothing compared to coming off of benzos (at least for me).  Hope this helps.

 

fg

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Hi FG,

 

Thank you for the reply and your insight.  :)

 

AD's do seem easier to come off of.  My only concern with Seroquel is it does act off of Gaba,

and I have done lots of reasearch that says it causes similar withdrawals as bensoz in so far

as rebound insomnia, panic attacks and nausea...  and can last quite a while longer than AD's.

So that kind of scares me.

 

I dunno this whole thing is just frustrating and confusing.  :(

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Tink,

 

I can only tell you that I've heard Seroquel horror stories. Not so much stopping it, but being on the drug. It can cause permanent side effects such as tardive dyskinesia

 

-P-

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Thanks for the response FG.

 

 

Hi Liberty,

 

Yes he did, and now I'm thinking I may not want to stay on it.  I dunno.

I think at some point I will build a tolerance to it and then what...  I

don't want to have to keep upping my dose and get hooked on another

drug.  I am tapering right now and will see how things go.  Hopefully

I will not be in the same horror I was in before I went on it a few days

ago.

 

I think what I will do is use it  a few times a week as a rescue for sleep

if I can.  Seems better than being hooked on something else to have to

get off of.  I'd rather be on an AD, than this, although it does work

well for me for sleep and calming me down.

 

Tink

 

I don't recall the dose you're on.

 

The way Seroquel works is mostly like as an antihistamine at low doses (e.g. 25 mg).

At high doses it is more of an antipsychotic.

For whatever reason, it is also approved as an antidepressant.

 

I don't have all the details.

But I have a few links about how it works in case you're interested, although it may be a bit complicated.

 

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/07/the_most_important_article_on.html?title=The%20Most%20Important%20Article%20On%20Psychiatry%20You%20Will%20Ever%20Read%20-%20The%20Last%20Psychiatrist

 

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/02/how_seroquel_xr_works_part_1.html (that's XR, not the immediate release)

 

And lots more. That website makes toast of some applications of Seroquel.

I've seen more useful articles from 'thelastpsychiatrist' but I cannot find them without spending some time on this.

 

For as far as I know, it does not act on GABA (directly).

Rebound insomnia is possible with anything used for sleep.

 

Some people have issues with Seroquel, others with Remeron.

 

Short term use of low dose Seroquel is unlikely to lead to major withdrawal reactions, unless you're sensitive/predisposed to this.

 

 

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Have you considered ANYTHING that will help you sleep for just a couple of nights/ a week ?

Sometimes when people get more stable their normal wake/sleep cycle returns.

 

There is a difference between a sleep aid for the very short term, and a sleep aid for the long run.

 

Did you read my link/post 'Psychopharmacology and medications in general' in the 'other medications' thread ?

I don't know, maybe it can be of some use.

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Tink,

 

I had no problem coming off of the Seroquel.  It was a walk in the park compared to Klonopin.  I wouldn't let the fact that you want to eventually come off of it scare you.  It's good you're being so diligent though in researching a medication before taking it.  I am now doing that as well since this whole benzo experience.

 

Wishing you well...

 

fg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Fg and Liberty,

 

I am going to try and stay on it at a very low dose for just a little while longer I think.  It is helping me function and I am on a tiny dose, so will see how it goes.  Thank you for your response

 

 

Hi Princezz,

 

Thank you for your response.  Yeah the things I have heard about it do concern me.  I am on a tiny dose, so am keeping my fingers crossed that things stay good for me.

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Tink,

I'm on Seroquel too. My doc started me at 50 mg, but I found that too sedating, so I went down to 25 mg, which seems to work well. I had tried Ambien and Restoril and those did not work for insomnia (I developed a tolerance to them quickly I guess). So far the Seroquel really has helped me. I sometimes wake up a few times during the night, but I can get back to sleep.

 

Marie

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