Need statistics for communication with an author:How many of us are there?

[[jr...]]

After reading most of these posts I had to write.  I was prescribed Klonopin, 0.25 mg 4 times a day after my husband's death and subsequent psych hospitalization for severe depression and anxiety.  Upon my release from the hospital I was referred to a psychiatrist near my home.  I saw him for the next couple of years every month, and each time he refilled my K Rx with no questions asked.  Eventually I had a change in my insurance and was referred to a psych nurse practitioner, who actually raised my dosage to 3 mg a day after I told her I still had some anxiety.  About a year later, when I began having some strange symptoms that I now realize were due to tolerance, I did some internet research.  The data I found stated that the acceptable daily dose limit of Klonopin was 2 mg a day.  At that point I cut to 1 mg a day, which I stayed on for about another 15 months until my c/t in April.  Numerous doctors knew that I was on 3 mg of Klonopin, and not one, NOT ONE, ever discussed tolerance, dependence or the fact that I was on a dose higher than recommended.  I am truly outraged about that, and what this terrible drug has done to my life.  I was left on this drug for 6 years.  Had I any idea the long-term harm it could cause I would absolutely had refused it.

[[Ch...]]

There are many definitions.

 

Usually, 'addiction' is about behavior.

 

'Involuntary Tranquilizer Addiction'

 

That suggests that the people in question just can't keep themselves from taking pills.

As if not taking the 'pills' is a mere inconvenience !

 

noun

the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma. 

Sound familiar?

Honestly, I'm not familiar with APPGITA.

 

http://www.appgita.com/  Now you can be.

 

Personally, I'm not a fan of either the Ashton approach or the psychiatric approach for benzodiazepine withdrawal.

But for various reasons there will not be major new research projects regarding 'benzodiazepine withdrawal'.

Perhaps you can start one yourself?

 

One of the classic limitations regarding the Ashton approach: -http://www.benzo.org.uk/ashvtaper.htm-

 

'Binding of clonazepam to receptors that do not bind to other benzodiazepines and action on sodium channel conductors are relevant to anticonvulsant effects, not tranquillising effects. The fact that clonazepam has sedative and anxiolytic actions and typical adverse effects of benzodiazepines including ataxia, irritability, depression and tolerance shows that there is little overall difference.'

So why would binding to sodium channels be irrelevant ?

It probably isn't if someone is (fully) physically dependent.

 

I see the Ashton protocol as rather limited/rigid, and not for everyone. Diazepam isn't a miracle drug for everyone. I sometimes get the feeling that this approach is most suited to those with anxiety issues.

If you have comorbid health issues it's a different matter altogether.

 

"It is worth pointing out to your prescriber that the withdrawal schedules provided in the manual are only intended as general guides. The rate of tapering should never be rigid but should be flexible and controlled by the patient, not the doctor, according to the patient's individual needs which are different in every case."

 

 

The psychiatric approach can be anything, but often involves antidepressants, antipsychotics and getting people off one drug and on another, and diagnosing people with made-up diseases.

 

In general, iatrogenic illness is the hardest to treat.

 

'My goal and that of others is to have it restricted to hospital use only.  For it to be available to people to take recreationally means that it was overprescribed to begin with.  You cut off the supply and the addictions go away.  Voluntary or Involuntary.'

 

I disagree.

Example: someone has extreme insomnia. (e.g. hasn't slept for a few days at all) Infrequent or short term use of hypnotics can be useful. I don't know about anxiety. As much as I disagree with the common practice of prescribing antidepressants for anxiety, many patients and psychiatrists find short term use of anxiolytic benzodiazepines as an adjunct useful and necessary.

 

I really don't think that a practice of restricting the use of benzodiazepines in favor of antidepressants and antipsychotics makes things better.

Who is suggesting A/Ds?  I'm pretty sure the vast majority of those on this site given Benzos for insomnia would like to have a word with their former doctors about it...

 

'For it to be available to people to take recreationally means that it was overprescribed to begin with.  You cut off the supply and the addictions go away.  Voluntary or Involuntary.'

Really ? So that's why the War on Drugs is such a success ?

This is one drug where the supply is manufactured by only a few companies.  It is not grown or cooked.

 

If there is demand, there will be supply. I must say that I don't know how 'common' patients and their doctors would react if they could no longer get the benzodiazepines from their doctor.

Even the manufacturers have guidelines for no longer than two to four weeks

 

Btw, recklessly prescribing benzodiazepines often begins/(began?) in hospitals.

Over 50 percent come from GPs.

 

It would seem possible to get reliable statistics by asking the people/patients. Utilizing various methods and approaches (surveys?) could potentially get you reasonable statistics.

 

Patient privacy concerns.  Doctors will not supply such information.  They will lose their jobs. 

 

Christopher

[[nc...]]

I have done alot of research with regard to the overprescribing of benzos to the general public by doctors.  I read an article in which seven different psychiatrists were interviewed as to the reason that they prescribe so many benzos, a/d's and other antipsychotic drugs.  In a nutshell it is all about the money.  All seven psychiatrists stated that talk therapy took to long and so they were unable to see as many patients a day and were unable to maintain the life style that they had become accustomed to.

 

Drug companies spend more money on perks and kickbacks to doctors (approximately $40,000.00 per year to every doctor that prescribes meds) than in research and development of all drugs manufactured.

 

I was on another forum which has since shut down that spent an incredible amount of time trying to get on any reputable television program to discuss and expose the benzo epidemic in this country.  They were refused by Oprah, 60 Minutes, 20/20 and all other whistle blowing forums they approached.  The reason is that Big Pharma is the largest lobbying group in the United States and has very deep pockets.  This is really bigger than all of us and what triggers it is very simply GREED.

 

If anyone really wants to get an accurate read of just how many people are on benzos in this country the people they should turn to for answers are the pharmacists.  They have nothing to gain.  They don't write the scripts, they only fill them.  My pharmacist says he struggles everyday with his job.  He truly knows just how out of control this has become and is writing a book on the subject.

 

Nancy 

[[ha...]]

HI Nancy,

Do you have that reference about the 7 pdocs? I still haven't written my e-mail to this journalist, so would like to include your reference. My approach is to try to engage in talking with someone who might become interested in writing about this, if not now, at some time in the future.

I wonder what the pharmacists would say. They know drugs better than anyone. What a question.

 

[[Ch...]]

I have done alot of research with regard to the overprescribing of benzos to the general public by doctors.  I read an article in which seven different psychiatrists were interviewed as to the reason that they prescribe so many benzos, a/d's and other antipsychotic drugs.  In a nutshell it is all about the money.  All seven psychiatrists stated that talk therapy took to long and so they were unable to see as many patients a day and were unable to maintain the life style that they had become accustomed to.

 

Drug companies spend more money on perks and kickbacks to doctors (approximately $40,000.00 per year to every doctor that prescribes meds) than in research and development of all drugs manufactured.

 

I was on another forum which has since shut down that spent an incredible amount of time trying to get on any reputable television program to discuss and expose the benzo epidemic in this country.  They were refused by Oprah, 60 Minutes, 20/20 and all other whistle blowing forums they approached.  The reason is that Big Pharma is the largest lobbying group in the United States and has very deep pockets.  This is really bigger than all of us and what triggers it is very simply GREED.

 

If anyone really wants to get an accurate read of just how many people are on benzos in this country the people they should turn to for answers are the pharmacists.  They have nothing to gain.  They don't write the scripts, they only fill them.  My pharmacist says he struggles everyday with his job.  He truly knows just how out of control this has become and is writing a book on the subject.

 

Nancy   

 

Thank you Nancy for stating all this.  This is why the lawsuits have failed in the past.  Big Pharma's lawyers have been able delay the court system longer then most could stay solvent.  I understand how kickbacks work.  I'm just not confident that Benzos make up that much of the kickback. Save for things like Xanax XR, almost all Benzos are generic these days.  Take a look at this:

 

"Xanax isn’t the most dangerous prescription pill on the market, but the anti-anxiety drug is so addictively powerful that doctors are starting to treat the benzodiazepine medicine as if it were an epidemic in itself. That’s increasingly a problem for Pfizer (PFE), which makes the branded version of the drug, the 11th most-prescribed product in the U.S. The company has already signaled it may need to take an asset writedown on the declining fortunes of Xanax."

 

From: http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/how-the-fda-is-sleeping-through-the-xanax-epidemic/9719?tag=fd-topStory2

 

I do believe that there are far too many of us to not have our day in court.  I don't think big Pharma is invincible.  I believe in awareness and that data needs to be put together in order to advance the issue.  As we speak the APPGITA is working to take this issue before the European Court on Human Rights:

http://www.appgita.com/index.php/2011/10/letter-from-john-perrott-to-liberty-17-october-2011/

 

Besides us, benzos are wreaking havoc on the rest of the population as well.  Take a look at these:

 

http://www.npr.org/2011/09/27/140849083/prescription-drug-deaths-major-killer-in-the-u-s?ft=1&f=5

 

http://dailymail.com/policebrfs/201110093000

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10750813

 

My point in taking the benzo issue this direction is to draw a comparison to other drug epidemics.  For those of you who remember Quaaludes, you can all agree that you just don't see them anymore. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methaqualone

 

I saw a documentary on Meth and it featured the man who was behind the battle against Quaaludes.  He was able to convince congress to change it to a schedule I drug.

 

"The drug was more tightly regulated in Britain under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 and in the U.S. from 1973. It was withdrawn from many developed markets in the early 1980s (in 1982 in the United States), being made a Schedule I drug in the U.S. in 1984."

 

I see a lot of similarities between the two epidemics.  I don't mean to undermine our struggles when I do this.  I understand we were put on and kept on these pills by doctors.  I understand the emotions behind this situation.  I have been on them for nearly half my life.  I just really wanna see these drugs go away period.  They are hurting far more people then just us. 

 

Christopher

[[ha...]]

Hi Christopher,

I just popped back to BB for a late night read and a sense of anchoring myself to people who understand. I do this sometimes.

 

I can't agree with you more about benzos hurting far more people than us and I also agree with so many other things you wrote. I will reread in the morning and think further about your thoughts. I am actually tired - and will take advantage of this; i.e try to get some sleep.

 

I think benzos not only affect many others who don't have the good fortune to find this site or support of other understanding people and who thus may suffer alone. It affects our families and friends. I start to wonder if I have been in a chemical straightjacket for years - a thought that I try to fight back against, because it is so awful to contemplate. I try to move forward into recovery instead. I know you are a recipient of these drugs for a long time, too.  I hope you recover. I hope I recover.  I hope I have time to build more friendships and maybe even a special relationship. I feel robbed of normal feelings as I move into times of catching myself laughing (and wondering what that sound was and where it has been for so long) - and I can sense that, even though I am still 1 mg. of k from the end of benzos, I am moving forward.

 

Benzos hurt us.  I wish us all healing.

 

I hope some of us can continue the fight in the public forum, however we can, to end the suffering. I rant. Enough.

 

Thank you Nancy, for your thoughts. Thank you ChristopherXII for your thoughts, too. Thank you.

 

[[Ch...]]

Hanna,

 

I'm really glad you realize the priorities in all this.  Yes, you come first and your healing.  And that goes for all of us.  A lot of people have come forward with their thoughts on this thread and I understand and appreciate their passions.  We are all upset and angry with what has be done to us and we all need to believe that it wasn't all for nothing.  This fight will continue and I do believe eventually it will be won.  In the meantime, we have to focus on our lives as well. 

 

When you do feel motivated to devote your time to the cause, know that nothing you do in its name is trivial.  I know many people have tried before in the past and feel they have not reached their goals.  But I believe in momentum and building upon what's already been accomplished.  People have devoted their lives to this cause.  I refuse to believe that we can't build upon their work.

 

Thank you for having the courage to start this thread and to contact those who could help.  Know that your passions in this match your talents.  Two things I am convinced of in this life.  We will all heal and that this needless suffering will be put to an end.  If that makes me naive so be it.  It's much better then defeated. 

 

That sound of laughter never went away, it just gets covered up at times.  Thanks again for writing about what so many of us feel.

 

Christopher 

[[nc...]]

Chris:

 

You need to Google Benzofriends and you will be directed to the link that contains all their archived information even though their site has shut down.  If I remember correctly that is where I think I saw the article.  Unfortunately so many of the support groups that helped people that were or are addicted to benzos are no longer up and running.

 

Nancy

[[pi...]]

Hi friends,

 

Hanna, I know just how you feel, being robbed of quality time while these drugs wrap themselves around our lives and the lives of our loved ones. I can't see how dwelling on it now will help my recovery, so instead I will also try in my own way to bring attention to this cause.

 

Interesting how none of the television programs are willing to bring the topic up. Might they be willing if they were to hear from a doctor or doctors instead of people like us.  Sometimes we are perceived as ranters with unjustified complaints.  So wrong on every level.

 

One of the things being off benzos has done is open up my mouth, quite literally.  I will never be quiet about this ever. I let every health practitioner know what I've been through, even my new shoulder rehab trainer.

 

I do believe we will heal, and we will have the time to live the live we deserve.

 

pianogirl

[[ha...]]

Just sent e-mail to journalist. Will let you know if I hear anything.

Thanks to everyone for your input. I finally wrote back to the journalist. Hopefully there was a "hook" for him to consider writing about benzos - but you never know. At least we pursued this one as far as possible. 

[[he...]]

Nice work for a noble cause.

 

Thank you all for the work you are doing to help others not fall in this trap.

 

healthy

[[ha...]]

Hi Healthy,

Thanks so much for your comment - today is one of those days of sxs, so it really helps to have the support on this. Thank you. Thank you.

Just trying - hopefully the journalist will pick up on it. I was so happy to get all the support from BBs when I asked for some help on understanding numbers.

Will let you know if I hear anything.

[[Ch...]]

Hanna,

 

Way to follow through with an important cause.  I hope he responds to you.  Regardless, you now have all the tools you need to contact more.  More importantly, you have the courage to act despite going through w/d.  That's very impressive and honorable.  Thank you Hanna.

 

Christopher

[[ha...]]

Christopher,

Thanks. I hope he responds, too. I am now on the lookout for more unsuspecting journalists!

Hanna